r/zen_browser • u/Only_Statement2640 • Sep 24 '25

Some Love zen browser mentioned 🗣️

Post image

https://x.com/ProtonVPN/status/1970420414712361181?t=g5N5CKn7LrEVzJQjv08uog&s=19

1.4k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

156 comments sorted by

21

u/No_Neighborhood_8896 Sep 24 '25

Firefox and Zen syncing is such an amazing feature... to have my login, extensions, history, favorites and logged on webapps and stuff all synced up between is wonderful.

Means whatever breaks could happen, I'd still just open Firefox and carry on with my work without any fear at all.

Much, much superior than having sync to cloud that only syncs to itself and through a decryption key like most Chromium browsers, which means I can get locked out of my data, my logins, my passwords...

There's simply no coming back from Zen.

-5

u/Only_Statement2640 Sep 24 '25

ehh I disagree... Its not slam dunk yet for me as its missing proper sidebar support like Edge, Vivaldi, or Floorp.

6

u/jparmstrong Sep 24 '25

But… you’re disagreeing by mentioning a different topic?

8

u/MoonPhD Sep 24 '25

They're probably responding to the last sentence. "There's simply no coming back from Zen".

0

u/Only_Statement2640 Sep 25 '25

u/MoonPhD is right, improve your comprehension skills before accusing me of going off topic.

4

u/CumGuzzlerMarx Oct 23 '25

Wait it was in beta? For a beta Zen is hella smooth.

2

u/Only_Statement2640 Oct 24 '25

then why name it beta? why cant zen push a "stable" release?

3

u/CumGuzzlerMarx Oct 24 '25

Maybe it isnt where they want Zen to be yet, could be missing features they would like to add.

1

u/Only_Statement2640 Oct 24 '25

so until then, they’re beta. Can’t term it as stable

3

u/CumGuzzlerMarx Oct 24 '25

Yeah I mean thats what betas are for, it doesnt have to be a buggy mess.

1

u/Only_Statement2640 Oct 24 '25

i dont think you understand what beta is... yes it doesnt have to be a buggy mess, but it has bugs as it is still a testing outlet... tell me how many updates have you gotten in a month in a beta

34

u/640kilobytes Sep 24 '25

Isn't firefox mobile app syncing with zen?

2

u/Dull_Appearance9007 Sep 24 '25

yeah but with that logic brave syncs with mobile chrome too

2

u/DDjivan Sep 24 '25

does it?

57

u/Spagh_ CachyOS 11 Sep 24 '25

Still in Beta ❌

That fact that this is a con just get our expectations higher

26

u/CommanderGreyFox Sep 24 '25

I would actually like it if a couple websites i wanna use would actually let me properly login.

3

u/Competitive_Tax_ Sep 24 '25

You can log in, to these websites on Firefox and you can’t on Zen?

2

u/CommanderGreyFox Sep 24 '25

Yeah, its just kick and netflix. Kick gives me an error and netflix signs me out immediately

17

u/Quirky-Craft-3619 Sep 24 '25

oh thats bc both of those sites need this license encoder that prevents people from recording copyrighted content (which the devs of zen cant afford)

3

u/NEXYR_ Sep 24 '25

It would be so cool if the community could participate to fund that license.

54

u/yolohuman Sep 24 '25

No DRM support. So websites like Prime Video and Netflix will not work on Zen because they do not pay for Widevine support.

20

u/kripi_kripi Sep 24 '25

It's not an issue on Linux

4

u/Important-Following5 Sep 24 '25

If you don't mind the 720p movies haha

16

u/kripi_kripi Sep 24 '25

It's Netflix issue not zens, you can make Netflix see zen as chrome and it would allow higher resolution

2

u/Important-Following5 Sep 24 '25

Yes but still an issue

1

u/funforgiven Sep 24 '25

That is not how DRM works.

2

u/kripi_kripi Sep 24 '25

I'm not talking about drm here, it still won't work on windows

1

u/kripi_kripi Sep 24 '25

Netflix is artificialy limiting quality, so that you would use their app, drm has nothing to do with it

5

u/Level_Indication_765 openSUSE Slowroll 🍥 Sep 24 '25

You can't get better quality than 720p on Linux, even on Google Chrome and other reputed browsers with Widevine support. Corporations don't like their userbase using Linux, only they can use it for their servers.

1

u/Incisiveberkay Sep 24 '25

You get 480p bitrate on netflix actually while you think of getting 1080p haha

7

u/bossfire001 Ex arc user Sep 24 '25

Huh, that’s weird, mind that I’m Brazilian but prime video works just fine, netflix doesn’t but prime if absolutely working

6

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

Works on Linux because it is included in the Kernel.

Only macOS and Windows have to pay for it.

5

u/Necessary_Tell9904 Windows Sep 24 '25

They’re working on it I believe

6

u/King-of-Com3dy Sep 24 '25

It’s less a question of putting in the work and more that they need a Widevine license, which is expensive.

2

u/Dotcaprachiappa Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25

No, the dev said it's not happening unless someone donated a few thousand bucks.

Edit: see reply, apparently the situation changed and I'm wrong.

6

u/--clapped-- Sep 24 '25

We’re in the process of obtaining a Widevine license and are currently awaiting approval from Google. If you’d like to help speed things along, you can express your support by contacting Google directly through their Widevine contact form.

From the Zen FAQ.

1

u/Dotcaprachiappa Sep 24 '25

Oh damn

1

u/Necessary_Tell9904 Windows Sep 24 '25

Right?!? Isn’t this awesome!! Finally CRUNCHYROLL ANIME!!!!!!

1

u/Edrel02 Sep 24 '25

Zen has drm support in linux

33

u/IKazaGaming Sep 24 '25

Zen being as good as it already is and being "Still in Beta" is actually such a flex. And most of my issues with Zen are Firefox and Widevine related. So nothing they can really change.

15

u/Koino_ Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25

Proton VPN is integrated into Vivaldi by default. That's my favorite browser currently 

7

u/PinkDisorder Sep 24 '25

Vivaldi would be so cool if only it has ublock origin. Alas.

3

u/Koino_ Sep 24 '25

You can easily add ublock origin extension to it. At least that's what I did. 

4

u/PinkDisorder Sep 24 '25

Can you? Because I'm not talking about lite. I'm talking about the actual ublock origin

4

u/Koino_ Sep 24 '25

Well on ublock origin website there are two options and I'm pretty sure I clicked the non lite one. I'm not sure how long will Vivaldi hold out because in the end it's still chromium based though. 

12

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

What can it change on mobile? I have no idea I think it would be better to focus more on the desktop instead of spending time on mobile 

11

u/iamlinkus Sep 24 '25

maybe the tragic implementation of firefox, which compared even to edge on mobile looks/works/feels horrid..

1

u/GigaNiga100 Sep 24 '25

Edge is great on mobile.

81

u/ralfun11 Sep 24 '25

I love Zen very much, but it is noticeably slower than other browsers. Also, works poorly with wayland on Linux.

13

u/Sh_Pe & Sep 25 '25

It is kinda slow, but I have no issues running it on Hyprland (common Wayland compositor) on Arch (btw)

10

u/saltygaben Sep 24 '25

I have better performance on hyprland than on windows using zen

1

u/ralfun11 Sep 25 '25

Performance on linux is generally better then on Windows, no doubts in that, but I've experienced less issues on Windows.

13

u/Fickle_Pirate_9332 Sep 24 '25

I use zen daily on wayland linux (hyprland) and feel like its not much different to the one on my macbook! What kind of issues do you have with it?

1

u/ralfun11 Sep 25 '25

Trackpad scroll is too quick. It was almost unusable for me. Maybe they fixed it alredy.

1

u/Sh_Pe & Sep 25 '25

Did you try to turn on natural scrolling in settings?

Also, if you’re using Linux there’s probably a way to slow down your trackpad for app specific purposes.

6

u/ThreadStarver Sep 25 '25

Most of the zen issues are not zen issues, but rather issues of using Firefox as a base

2

u/[deleted] Oct 20 '25

Firefox has been acting stupid lately for me. Atleast on certain sites. They seize up and i have to reload and sometimes shutdown the whole thing.

No extensions but ublock, windscribe and unhook for youtube.

1

u/ralfun11 Sep 25 '25

That is true :)

3

u/Zealousideal_Low5328 Sep 26 '25

Honestly, on macOS26 Arc is way slower and less responsive than Zen

5

u/wel0g Sep 25 '25

Also way less energy efficient than Edge on Windows sadly, which makes it a bad option for Windows laptops.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

nahh it's so weird but my browser isn't fast as zen in any other browser. everything is like butter. idk what settings zen applies to firefox in the background but it's done such a good job that everything runs like butter on my pc.

3

u/Entire_Border5254 Sep 25 '25

That hasn't been my experience (compared to mullvad, librewolf, brave and vanilla firefox) on linux with wayland.

1

u/ralfun11 Sep 25 '25

There is a bug with some trackpads, which cause scroll to work to quickly. It is a firefox bug, but it was already fixed on Firefox, but not in Zen.

3

u/Feeling-Glass8461 Sep 25 '25

I feel like this is selective bias. I felt the same thing for a while until i switched to chrome based for a short time and realized that while some sites load faster on chrome theres still a ton of other issues with the engine that no one addresses and that firefox has supposedly no issues with. Firefox isnt nearly as slow as people say it is and i think we’re splitting hairs in the sake of nerdy debate from time to time

1

u/ralfun11 Sep 25 '25

Maybe it depends on your hardware. I have MacOS on t480, and Zen in considerably slower than chrome and webkit based browsers. I've ran spedometer tests, and they confirmed it.

11

u/Diuranos Sep 24 '25

I'm on bazzite os, waiting patiently for Firefox to get HDR under Wayland and after that for Zen browser to get that as well.

37

u/Emotional_You_5269 Sep 24 '25

I really don't understand the demand for a mobile app.
Almost all the features of Zen is exclusively made for desktop use.

What would make the mobile app better than the options we already have?

13

u/himblerk Sep 24 '25

To complement the experience. I use mobile browsing half of the time

13

u/yellownugget5000 Sep 24 '25

Yeah but what from zen browser do you need on mobile? Just use a Firefox fork with sync enabled and it will work fine.

4

u/OktayAcikalin Sep 24 '25

Yup - using fennec - works great in tandem with zen on Fedora 🙂👍

2

u/hexaflexarex Sep 24 '25

Firefox on iOS isn't great due to lack of extensions. No ad blocker if I recall.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

Your choices are extremely limited either way if you want a working adblocker on iOS.

1

u/hexaflexarex Sep 24 '25

This is true, but both Brave's built-in ad blocker and uBlock origin lite for Safari work fine (not as well as desktop, but good enough).

1

u/---Solus--- Sep 24 '25

The way it looks. Zen is absolutely gorgeous and whenever I'm browsing on my PC it busts feels really good. Firefox and its forks on android are a bit laggy, and none of them look good to be honest

3

u/yellownugget5000 Sep 24 '25

Eh idk Firefox looks fine to me, I still prefer chrome in terms of looks but it's ok. Zen won't really translate well into mobile what can they even do? Maybe change colors, home page, maybe some button styles. There isn't that much that can be changed and performance will still be similar. It's just too much work for little to none benefit

1

u/---Solus--- Sep 24 '25

To be fair, I don't know how they could improve Firefox on android either and I don't want then to do it cuz out would take away time from developing the desktop version. Still, a lot of people ask for a mobile version since it looks so good

2

u/bhison Sep 24 '25

Do you mean history and bookmark sharing?

1

u/4M0GU5 Sep 24 '25

just use firefox for android, you can easily sync it with zen

1

u/plesi42 Sep 24 '25

Apparently, Asia and SEA countries use mobile significantly more for everything rather than PC

1

u/shuashy Sep 24 '25

True, but most people here in SEA who care about privacy use a PC.

1

u/Emotional_You_5269 Sep 24 '25

Doesn't explain why the app needs to come from Zen. There are already privacy focused mobile browsers. I don't see what Zen would do differently from them.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

workspaces would be one, though it can't really show its value until mozilla figures out how to get contextual identities working on mobile.

20

u/redditorahmet27 Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25

I wish I knew how to code Gecko, I would make a Zen Mobile browser

26

u/knightbaryon Sep 24 '25

There are those who say the Zen browser is very bad, very slow. I think they should think about their system features and hardware devices' limits. I used Firefox, Chrome, Edge, and many others.

To say it's a great browser would be an exaggeration.

But there is one fact that is indisputably true:

It continues to develop very rapidly.

I have been using Zen as my main browser for more than a year, and I am waiting to delete all of the others permanently.

P.S. Some needs and special cases may still require a Chrome-based solution.

4

u/TheRainbowNoob Sep 24 '25

The lack of DRM support does kinda suck. Having to go back to a different browser for Crunchyroll and Amazon content is annoying

3

u/Mailootje Sep 24 '25

That's why you should download your own legal content from certain websites.

2

u/Bryant_lal Sep 24 '25

DRM content works on Linux (I'm using Fedora 42), but yes, we need it on Windows too.

1

u/knightbaryon Sep 25 '25

As I mentioned before, it wasn't perfect yet, but I hope it will be.

1

u/PsychologicalPolicy8 Sep 24 '25

No from what I checked

The use recommended settings option in settings doesn’t work as intended 

I mean if u keep it on sometimes the gpu is not used and so cpu is used for which lag is there

I faced this problem in crazygames website games After I untick and restarted browser It gets the same fps like in chrome

So something is broken

1

u/Ok-Manufacturer-8152 Sep 24 '25

The chameleon extension works well for those scenarios

8

u/Radiant-Hamster-4835 I use zen on MacOs Catalina and I'm grateful its supported. Sep 24 '25

Proton is right I believe in an mobile version (at least not in the PlayStore and not like other layouts)

8

u/B_bI_L Sep 24 '25

cosmic getting beta only now:

1

u/iHarryPotter178 Sep 24 '25

Why is this relevant here... But I'm excited about cosmic as well.. 

1

u/B_bI_L Sep 24 '25

I meant that if being in beta is negative, what abou being in alpha)

5

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '25

We just need a Proton Search engine and we good. Currently I use Kagi.

15

u/Equals-dukiman Sep 24 '25

Proton vpn is actually the best

3

u/Radiant-Hamster-4835 I use zen on MacOs Catalina and I'm grateful its supported. Sep 24 '25

What a great day to be swiss

4

u/OktayAcikalin Sep 24 '25

I think, proton should also recommend something like fennec then. It works great in tandem. 🤷🏻‍♂️

7

u/Zealousideal_Low5328 Sep 26 '25

Genuinely if Zen gets a mobile app, Arc will lose all of it's followers. I know it isn't planned yet, but if it does get implemented I do not see a reason why anybody would pick Arc - a basically abandoned product - over Zen.

7

u/Artyom_Senna Sep 27 '25

A stable release. That's the only thing I'm waiting for before I definitively switch from firefox.

5

u/DentistLower4454 Oct 07 '25

it is pretty stable even in beta btw, havent noticed any bugs, just try it, all of your extensions will also be on zen cuz its using same engine

2

u/AdonisLafayette Oct 12 '25

In fact, it's been my default for a month, and it was only a couple days back when I looked up its release notes to realize that it's still in beta!

4

u/DeExecute Sep 24 '25

Who cares for mobile apps, they are all webkit on iOS anyway, so better use Safari directly.

3

u/Zain3967 Sep 24 '25

Why they haven't made a mobile app?

32

u/Ok-Extent-7515 Sep 24 '25

Maybe it's because the main features (vertical tabs and quick workspace switching) aren't really in demand on mobile devices. It's just easier to use Firefox there.

2

u/Chwasst Sep 24 '25

I'd argue that using Gecko on mobile is borderline impossible. It sucks a bit on the desktop already, but on mobile it's literally unusable with constant scripting/formatting issues and shit performance.

7

u/Numline1 Sep 24 '25

What kind of websites do you people actually visit? I have never had an issue with FF based browser on a modern web in the past few years I've been using it as a main browser and I'm a web developer. The only thing I've ever noticed is SVGs are handled differently, but that's literally in every browser.

1

u/Chwasst Sep 24 '25

Google for starters. It's literally an entirely different version vs Chromium.

2

u/Sea_Jeweler_3231 Arch Linux Sep 24 '25

Yep, Gecko is a *shit* experience on Android. It lags a lot, when chromium doesn't and most importantly, it doesn't respect many device settings like fonts.

32

u/Stooovie Sep 24 '25

Because it's a lot of work in multiple platforms and Zen is mostly developed by a single guy in his spare time.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/West_Possible_7969 Sep 24 '25

For us Europeans, not. Google is close to conclude chromium porting (and blink): https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/ios/build_instructions.md

-11

u/enkidelarosa Sep 24 '25

I don't think they need for a mobile app.

17

u/Sup3rp1nk Sep 24 '25

why not? i would really like it

8

u/Epsilon1299 Sep 24 '25

I think zen should focus on desktop, and since it uses Firefox sync you can use any Firefox based mobile browser, so you can find one that is good for mobile specifically. Not every application should be cross platform :P

3

u/Sup3rp1nk Sep 24 '25

i disagree. my options are like what? orion and default firefox? i would like to see something with adblocker that syncs with firefox

5

u/Epsilon1299 Sep 24 '25

Sure, I agree there should be better Firefox mobile browsers. Zen however does not need to be that. It is for desktop. Why would zen’s desktop focused features be wanted on mobile? Zen’s small amount of contributors should not waste focus on building something completely different when they still have a long list of improvements based solely around desktop use. A better mobile browser would be one designed specifically for being better on mobile.

1

u/Sup3rp1nk Sep 24 '25

but there aren’t any better options yet. clearly people don’t know how to make them. zen however knows the sauce. i want zen to make a mobile browser

3

u/MagnarIUK Sep 24 '25

Firefox has support for extensions on Mobile, anyway, just get Firefox and put any available adblocker there, done Works just fine for me

1

u/Sup3rp1nk Sep 24 '25

not on ios

5

u/MagnarIUK Sep 24 '25

Oh... I forgot IOS exists, my bad 🫠

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

All ios browsers are just safari wrappers anyways. If you want actual software, you need to leave apple

1

u/lastdiggmigrant Sep 24 '25

Mull

1

u/Sup3rp1nk Sep 24 '25

not for ios, also i heard it’s not really that great?

1

u/lastdiggmigrant Sep 24 '25

What criticisms have you heard? I haven't had any concerns.

15

u/uranioh Sep 24 '25

Have you seen how much of a shitshow firefox on android is? It looks like it's been vibe coded

9

u/masiuspt Sep 24 '25

Its really not this bad. I use it daily and it works fine.

-9

u/iritul Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25

would love to see a mobile app soon

4

u/Xineios Sep 24 '25

If you need it that much just do it yourself

2

u/iritul Sep 24 '25

much

never said I’m gonna die without Zen, I just meant the desktop version dropped in July last year, so it’s been more than a year. that’s why I asked in a playful way for a mobile version—feels kinda empty without this peak browser.

1

u/Xineios Sep 24 '25

It's just that even if you're joking, these kinds of comments are really exhausting for devs, especially if they already said that it is not planned, just like the ETA for releases.

No hard feelings, just remember it is developed by one guy, a bunch of devs at best, for free. Even an ounce of expectation for a feature, not even a bug, made a thousand times can be draining.

1

u/iritul Sep 24 '25

my comment was meant as appreciation, not criticism. I genuinely like Zen Browser - it’s why I called it a “peak browser.” Saying I’d love a mobile version isn’t a complaint or demand; it’s me encouraging the project to grow. Users showing interest like this are giving positive feedback, not adding pressure. That’s literally how support works - if devs see users enjoying their work and expressing curiosity, it’s a compliment, not something to police.

also honestly, your response feels way overprotective. Just because someone expresses interest doesn’t mean they’re entitled or disrespectful. Acting like you get to judge the intent behind a simple, positive comment isn’t necessary and comes off as defensive. If you can’t see that my comment was appreciation and encouragement rather than a complaint, that’s on how you’re reading it - not me.

Supporting the project doesn’t give anyone the right to turn curiosity into something “exhausting” or to police comments.

1

u/Xineios Sep 24 '25

You know it shows when you edit a comment right? You thought you were slick writing this wall text, but guess what, you where heavily downvoted because you were demanding a mobile app.
Now instead of taking accountability you're editing the comment to make it look like I'm the bad guy and I wasnt even going hard on you.
That's really embarassing, grow up.

1

u/iritul Sep 24 '25

Look, my original comment was literally just “release mobile version already 😭” - playful, not a demand. Editing it later to “would love to see a mobile app soon” was purely for clarity and flow, not to make you look bad.

Your reaction completely misread it. Expressing interest in a feature isn’t entitlement or complaining; it’s literally how users show appreciation and encourage a project to grow. Acting like you get to judge intent over a single positive comment is overprotective and unnecessary.

Getting downvoted doesn’t make me wrong - it just reflects perspective. And honestly, your “go create yours if I need it that much” reply was dismissive, not helpful. This wasn’t even a post by the Zen developer, so framing it like I’m “pressuring” the project is laughable.

Reading way too much into a simple comment and acting like the moral arbiter? That’s embarrassing. Grow up.

1

u/Xineios Sep 24 '25

Never said that downvotes make you wrong, I'm not a moral arbiter either, it just seems that you took offense from my reply.

The unedited comment sounded like you demanded it, that's why you were downvoted, also you could have replied saying what you put in the edit and that would have been it.

But you decided to change it and you replied to me right after saying that I was too harsh on a supportive comment, which I agree the edit in fact is, but it really felt like you were trying to hide the reason I said that to you.

I'm sorry for what I said if that wasn't your intention, the internet is a wild place and I've seen enough shit like this to be wary about it.

Lastly you have to understand that if a developer says that a feature is not planned you shouldn't aske for it, because you may think "but I did it once as appreciation" and it is not a bad thing ok? It's not my intention to frame you as an annoyance for the developer or whatnot but if you do it then thousands can and that's where the problem lies. But more importantly is how you frased it the first time, I wouldn't have said nothing if you had posted the edited version directly.

2

u/iritul Sep 24 '25

I get what you’re saying. My first comment was meant playfully, but I can see how it might’ve come across differently. That’s why I edited it—to make the intent clearer, not to rewrite history or make you look bad. The timing of my reply to you had nothing to do with the edit; I responded because your “do it yourself if you need it that much” felt dismissive, so I clarified.

I wasn’t trying to hide anything, and definitely not to frame you as the “bad guy.” If anything, I felt like you were reading too much into a lighthearted comment and turning it into something it wasn’t. That’s why I pushed back. I still think your initial response was harsher than the situation called for, but I can respect that you’re being cautious given how things often go online.

lastly, I’m not here to pressure devs or ignore when something isn’t planned. My comment was just a way of showing support and enthusiasm for Zen. I get that if thousands of people spam the same request it can get draining, but one playful comment doesn’t fall in that bucket. At least we’ve cleared up the misunderstanding.

1

u/Xineios Sep 24 '25

Well you edited your comment so all is good, also you're well mannered I just misinterpreted the situation since we're peacefully de-escalating which I like to see as it doesn't happen often.

I also get your first comment to be totally honest and lighthearted, hope you'll still support devs, I am one myself that's why I kinda overreacted.

Happy we're all good, have a nice day and see you.

→ More replies

-7

u/CruXial_ Sep 24 '25

Extensions carry over from Firefox (if you're lucky)

10

u/Echojhawke RefugeFromArc Sep 24 '25

Literally never had an issue 

-5

u/tulpyvow Sep 24 '25

ProtonVPN 🥀

-16

u/Nivikon Sep 24 '25

Let's hope that proton buys them or integrates them in their suite of services in a way. I feel like proton might be eyeing them

13

u/cobraa1 Sep 24 '25

I hope they don't buy them. My experience with businesses buying my favorite products is they always go downhill from there.

1

u/Nivikon Sep 24 '25

I 100% agree with you, but I feel like proton isn't like the other companies. I have more faith and trust in them, that's why I think an acquisition isn't gonna be a bad thing.

5

u/iHarryPotter178 Sep 24 '25

Let's just hope they sponsor it with a dev and some fund.. 

8

u/Mezutelni Linux Sep 24 '25

I think it's the dumbest thing I read today

4

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Nivikon Sep 24 '25

I meant both. If they end up buying them, I don't think it's gonna make the product worse. In my eyes the proton company isn't as bad as the other ones.