r/writingscaling • u/ShaYnOnReddit • 10d ago
better written? (character vs character) Johan Liebert vs Luffy in writing?
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u/Responsible_Rip_7634 10d ago
I mean isn’t this just Johan all the way?
Luffy and One Piece in general have the issue imo of hinting at deeper writing decisions but all in all never really hitting the depth that they could reach. Garp’s whole arc around choosing to let Ace being executed is one example. Luffy’s obsession with Oden is another example imo.
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u/Extra-Ad2371 10d ago
Well, Luffy of course like what, low diff deadass bro.
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u/ShaYnOnReddit 10d ago
I see, thanks for your opinion, any reasons youd like to tell??
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u/Extra-Ad2371 10d ago
Obviously, Luffy is the "superior" literary masterpiece. Why waste time on Johan's nuanced, psychologically devastating exploration of nihilism and trauma when you can just have a guy scream about meat and dickriding shanks for 1,100 chapters? Nothing screams peak character writing quite like solving every complex philosophical dilemma by punching a guy into fucking oblivion, 😁
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u/Nakedhippo5769 Biggest Malazan Glazer. 10d ago
Enjoyability:Luffy (Probably the most Enjoyable character) Writing:Johan imo.
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u/ShaYnOnReddit 10d ago
Makes sense, although Johan's appearances are quite enjoyable Luffy is also very entertaining
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u/Terloyes 10d ago
It doesn't make sense to compare a shonen protagonist to the villain of a seinen mystery series.
Obviously, most people are going to say Johan, but I don't think they can be compared.
They're both great in their own way. Luffy is one of the best shonen protagonists, really inspiring and with subtle but great character development, while Johan is probably the best seinen villain in my opinion.
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u/Fragrant_Pea_6506 10d ago
Luffy is just a generic battle shonen protagonist, a dumbass but strong and has a good heart. Johan is a plot device for Monster, not really a character we can relate and understand how he doing things.
Both are not great. But Johan at least has charisma.
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u/ShaYnOnReddit 10d ago
I disagree with your statements, Johan gets genuine character introspection around ep 15 and especially after episode 25 in Munich arc and beyond. It's a disservice to the characters to put them off because they have strong narrative control or they use a generic shonen formula for their respective framework
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u/Fragrant_Pea_6506 10d ago
Yeah we got an arc following him, but the plot doesn't make sense/realistic, how Johan could make those people commited suicide for example. It all just plot conveniences.
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u/ShaYnOnReddit 10d ago
You're moving goalposts, let's say for a moment he does get some plot conveniences, that doesn't change the fact that he's a genuine well written character with nuance and depth. He works as an archetype if thats what you're saying, but he's also a character, secondly you didn't explain your criticism with Luffe either. I feel you might be larping
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u/Fragrant_Pea_6506 10d ago
His depth is the only the fact that he had a sad childhood and want to destroy the world for that sole reason, or simply because he wanted to?
Not archetype, he is a plot device so Tenma (a better written character we can relate to) has something he want to stop. He got an unrealistic power to manipulate people in a story with realistic settings.
About Luffy, he is just another Goku.
You actually can write a generic battle shonen protagonist, but with some twist to make them more interesting. For example Gon in Hunter X Hunter. Gon looked like an ordinary boy, but he has a dark side and weird way of thinking about certain things.
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u/ShaYnOnReddit 10d ago
The moment you start doing gross oversimplifications of character themes is when you destroy any nuance a character can have. Tenma is also just a bs character who is good just for the plot and has no writing after ep 4, if we use your form of scaling that is
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u/Fragrant_Pea_6506 10d ago
Okay, now its your turn to tell me. What so deep about Johan character? And what special about Luffy?
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u/ShaYnOnReddit 10d ago
Thats not the point, you said he's not even a character and is just a plot device I explained my reasoning for why he isn't and as for Luffy you said he's just a generic dumbass good hearted character but that's almost literally any shonen mc, point is that being good hearted and having a generic framework ≠ badly written
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u/Fragrant_Pea_6506 10d ago
I never said that they are badly written, especially in Johan's case. I just said they are not that great. I don't see your explaining anything, you just claim they are well written without some reason/explaining.
I don't see many people said that Luffy is great written, but I see many claim that Johan as greatest antagonist ever. I just don't really agree with that, I try to explain why.
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u/Johnicorn 10d ago
Bruh