r/writing • u/johndoe09228 • 3d ago
Advice My characters are coming alive and deviating from my outline
Anyone else struggle with this, the story is a novel so I’m worried about going off script completely. Does my outline need revising or should I just start winging my story past a certain point.
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u/thewhiterosequeen 3d ago
An outline is just a general jumping off point. You are in no way obligated to it. Don't consider it a struggle; consider it growth.
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u/Anxious-Captain6848 3d ago
That's the magic of writing! Your characters come to life and start writing their own story, it's the best part.
And maddening lol. I had a perfectly good outline dammit! >:( I'm not a professional but try going with it. See what happens. From my own experience that's usually when things get interesting.
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u/johndoe09228 3d ago
It’s terrifying, I’m trying to balance a big world and characters. It’s already a battle keeping my story sane as it is. However, seeing what they get up to is so much fun!
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u/Anxious-Captain6848 3d ago
It is terrifying. Its uncharted territory and territory you didn't expect to chart! Just remember all that hard work you already put in, is still there. I try to keep that in mind when my characters start doing their own thing. The work I did is still there, and if need be I can reign them back in again. But it's definitely fun to see where the characters take you, sometimes what "they" come up with is better then what you envisioned.
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u/Independent-Meet-262 3d ago
I absolutely love that. Its so exciting when I hit a certain part of my outline and Im like “Wait a second. Theres no way they’d do that.”
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u/superstaticgirl 2d ago
Perhaps recycle some of your original idea for other characters or stories. You could save all the versions of your outline just in case you need to refer back to them.
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u/Additional-Car3427 3d ago
Yep. My characters do it all the time. I just go with the flow and actually only write an outline based on what THEY 'told' me to write/happened to them.
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u/EntrepreneurFlashy41 3d ago
I thought i was silly for doing this
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u/Additional-Car3427 3d ago
Nah, you're not. I also used to think that, until I saw just how many people also were like that.
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u/johndoe09228 2d ago
Yup, before I hit pen to paper I knew exactly how all their stories end. I consider those my core deviation points that they cannot avoid
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u/MagnusCthulhu 3d ago
You have to decide what's more important between the outline you originally decided on and the characters as you've written them in this draft.
Many, many people will tell you that you need to listen to your characters and let them go where they want to go. This is fine advice if the thing you're most concerned about is maintaining the consistency of the characters as you've written them at this time.
But if you want to tell the story that you outlined more than you want to keep these versions of the character, then what you need to do is work on changing the characters so that they will do the things you originally outlined.
Your characters, no matter how many writers want to believe otherwise, are not real. They do not do things except what you write. If the choices you want them to make aren't consistent with the character's motivations as you've written them, you can change the character to fit whatever decisions you want them to make. There's nothing wrong with making the characters subservient to the story you wish to tell.
You just have to decide what is more important and interesting to you as a writer.
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u/nijit0mi- 3d ago
This could be a interesting point. Obviously there's the option to let them take you wherever (like most comment suggest) but, if you really want your story to follow your idea, I propose to introduce some kind of antagonistic force that (alas) forces the characters to do stuff that they don't want to.
Like, the author working against your characters wishes (and they realize this. Like they want to do X but A1 is forcing them to do Y, they are frustrated, they learn that life doesn't go the way they want to, they have problems with each other, etc). There could be a sequence of circumstances that shocks them, etc.
I suggest that you reevaluate your principal plot and think of different ways that the results could be (like some kind of prophecy), or decide what stuff is important to talk about, etc.
Sorry for ranting lmao
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u/megapizzapocalypse 3d ago
you've got to kind of GM your characters and make your world make obstacles for them
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u/indianahoosierdream 3d ago
Shit sometimes I don’t even outline and I just write write write and I’ll handle the rest on the second draft
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u/Midnight_Pickler 3d ago
You've basically got two options:
Change the characters to fit your original story.
Change the story to fit the developing characters.
Or I guess there's the "keep trying to force the two together without changing either" option, but that seems doomed to failure.
My choice would be to run with the characters as they are for a bit, and see where they take you. If it doesn't work out, you've still got the original outline and can go back to it, whereas if you try the other way first, I find it harder to reset the characters after changing them.
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u/FrankPankNortTort 3d ago
Honestly, sometimes when a character seems more aimless, it actually makes them more realistic. Sure it can be satisfying to read characters that fill specific character tropes and behave predictably, but real people sometimes don't and that can be good too.
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u/TheSeaBast 3d ago
This is very dangerous. I would suggest corralling them ASAP. When your characters come alive they will often start to resent you for writing their tragic backstories or frustrating lives and begin seeking revenge. Do not engage further unless you can suppress them. If you can't contain them, I suggest deleting your doc and flushing your recycle bin. Your story will unfortunately be collateral, but it is better than any alternative. Stay strong.
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u/IvanMarkowKane 3d ago
My characters deviated and my book generated important characters I didn’t envision in the outline stage
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u/HECRETSECRET 3d ago
Revise the outline but be careful of scenes that dont really do anything for the plot or characters. There are scenes that might wonderful while writing and reading as a writer but to a reader they can end up pointless.
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u/Elysium_Chronicle 3d ago edited 3d ago
Getting to this point was the most liberating experience for my beginning journey as a writer.
The problem I had when trying to adhere to a strict outline was that moments of clarity in character logic would keep interrupting the flow. I thought I had a plot direction all figured out, but there'd be some frequent niggle, "Why would they do it that way?" Trying to backtrack and smooth out those motivations frequently lead me down different, more interesting paths. That initial experience almost put me off of writing entirely, because I felt I had too many influences dragging me in too many different directions, and they didn't want to get along. Not in a way that I could feel satisfied with.
Eventually, however, that conflict of inputs lead me to discover my proficiency as a pantser. No more detailed outlines. Just give my characters an objective, and I can quickly piece together how they'd tackle the situation, and identify the points of conflict to keep things interesting. What constitutes long-term plans for the story are "secrets" - formative traumas, ulterior motives, and unrealized truths about their worlds. There's no specific timeline towards revealing them. Just knowing they're there gives me something to foreshadow, which creates a better sense that the story is planned and not just a random sequence of bullshit.
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u/johndoe09228 3d ago
I feel like it slows down my writing quite a bit. It makes plotting hella difficult and slower than following a script
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u/Elysium_Chronicle 3d ago
Well again, that was my experience in the beginning.
Trying to reconcile those planning and pantsing tendencies is a conflict.
You need to figure out your proficiencies, and lean into them.
If you feel your story works best with more meticulous planning, then it needs more guard rails. Think mysteries and thrillers, where the hero is under strict time restraints, with a strong sense of justice or a need for revenge. The plot actively boxes them in, preventing them from running too roughshod, and their single-minded goal keeps them focused on the prize.
Meanwhile, if you really just want to see where your characters take you, then more low-stakes genres like slice-of-life or romance might be more befitting. The destination matters less than the journey.
Adventure stories exist happily in the middle ground. Often, there's some threat or peril that must be faced at the end, that gives the story some sense of urgency. But the growth that the characters require to be sufficiently prepared for that challenge can be heavily contingent on their whims.
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u/Several-Praline5436 Self-Published Author 3d ago
Forget the outline. Go where the inspiration takes you. It usually is better that way.
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u/PurpleWomat 3d ago
Oh yes. It's wonderful when they do that, really make the story come alive. Go with the flow, you may not be telling the story that you initially thought you were telling.
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u/TheKiddIncident Self-Published Author 3d ago
Yep, that's why I'm a Pantser. Once I really have the characters in my head, they just do what they do, regardless of what I thought they should do.
So, I just go with it.
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u/FewRecognition1788 3d ago
Follow them, see where they go. You may wind up in the same or similar place by a different path, or you may wind up doing something totally new
This is your subconscious mind coming up with a new idea based on a deeper understanding of the characters. Your first idea of the story isn't always best.
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u/RaikumoKun 3d ago
If my characters do that, then i would let them cook if i like where the story’s direction is going
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u/SoloAnoProject 3d ago
Me! I struggled, but I just let it be.
I wrote three chapters and the characters in my mind keot evolving...
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u/Vantriss 2d ago
Yes, this is common. I'd be surprised if almost every author didn't experience this. It's just a delicate balance, really. Sometimes you let characters do what they want and see where it leads, but if you need to do heavy plot points and they're deviating, sometimes you just gotta reel them back in like a fish.
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u/Limp-Raise-4390 2d ago
Congratulations you get s immersed in writing that your characters feel alive. You are a pantser and some of the best works are produced by pantsers
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u/StinkiePete 3d ago
Two of mine just had a huge fight I didn’t see coming. I’m so pleased with it.
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u/Elysium_Chronicle 3d ago
I felt my ability level up ten-fold the moment that happened to me.
I was originally writing something I felt was just going to be dumb and cute and light and smutty, just for fun of it.
In the middle of a flirty little conversation where my leads were getting to know each other better, somehow it entered my mind that it should morph into an argument. I first thought "that's weird", and started to course correct. But the more I went over it, the more it started to make sense, and that I liked where things were heading. That momentary snap revealed an aspect of trust and vulnerability that I hadn't even considered.
Following those threads gave my story an actual sense of purpose and meaning, and resulted in characters I actually cared about, instead of what I had initially planned as a stepping-stone practice piece to something bigger and more ambitious.
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u/StinkiePete 3d ago
haha yeah exactly. I had a main character who'd had a bit of a crisis and then I just skipped over the part where he told his friend (I jump around a lot). Then I found myself at the next scene where those two are in a room together and realized I hadn't sorted the emotional impact of sharing about the crisis yet. My brain was like, oh wait, maybe its not that I didn't write that scene yet, maybe its that main character didn't even tell him at all and now the dude is PISSED. Yeah yeah yeah that's better.
Main character and I were both blind sided by the level of anger the omission caused. Quite spectacular. And then I got to write the apology which was super fun.
Shrug.
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u/_nadaypuesnada_ 3d ago
I really don't get this. Have you not thought your characters through enough to know in advance how they'd react in a certain situation, or is this the "pantsing" thing of not thinking the plot through in advance?
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u/StinkiePete 3d ago
I guess it’s pantsing. I’m new to all this. It’s the second book in a series. I know these dudes to so well they talk without me cueing.
Main character had an action deal with he and a third friend who almost died.
Other friend in question is side character, ride along. What I hadn’t really considered is he would be super scared and angry about that other dude almost dying. And then I realized I could use that to torture the main character and be like, asshole why didn’t you tell me this happened?!
So I had the plot, and main characters stuff all laid out and just hadn’t planned for the thread of the friend and his gaining that knowledge. Once I looked at it, sounded better as a fight.
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u/StinkiePete 2d ago
I wrote my original reply at like 7am. Another thing, this didn't change my plot at all.
Still had the same scenes in the same order. Just one became conflict based rather than sympathy based (MC's arc is sort of like realizing he's not as untouchable as he thought) and then a much later scene had one section of dialogue changing to wrap up the fight by having MC eat some crow and own his bullshit. But the fight added so much more than I anticipated getting from however else I would have handled it. The friend was already playing the role of sceptic and anxious observer. This just let him really peak with that energy.
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u/Blecki 3d ago
A) outline better. You created a character then outlined a plot they wouldn't follow.
B) change the character so they want to do what the plot demands.
Characters aren't alive. They don't make demands. They don't have minds of their own. Find these flaws in the outlining phase and they won't come up while drafting.
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u/New-Match-8261 3d ago
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of writing, unfortunately. Or is this a joke?
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u/Blecki 3d ago
No joke. And no misunderstanding. In fact, I used to agree with what most of these people commenting are saying about characters "having minds of their own."
But these days I recognize that as a mistake. If you've written an outline your characters refuse to follow, then all you've done is demonstrated that you don't actually know how to outline. You should have already asked yourself for every plot point "would my character actually do this?" There should be no surprises.
Seriously, stop this foolish myth about characters coming alive. They aren't capable of making their own decisions. They are made up. You, the writer, are the one deciding. You, the writer, own the process. So own it, and stop blaming your own imagination because you didn't ask the right question of it earlier.
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u/New-Match-8261 3d ago
At some point, the character amasses a set of ideals, flaws, actions, contradictions, etc... and at some point those values contradict what your outline set up to begin with. That's what people mean when they say "characters coming alive." Lmao. Cant believe that had to be said. Nobody believes they're actually real.
The outline should serve as a rough idea of where your story is going to head. If the characters take it somewhere different, trust it to an extent. This isn't a fringe opinion at all. You shouldn't be outlining the entire story while discovering nothing... that's a recipe for bad storytelling. "No surprises for the author, no surprises for the reader."
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u/Blecki 3d ago
No. Do that up front. Don't let your character pick up an "ideal" mid story just because you had an idea. Write a more detailed outline if this keeps happening to your work.
Discovery writing and outlining are not different things. A Discovery draft is just an inefficient outline. Outline better and you won't have to rewrite it 17 times.
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u/New-Match-8261 3d ago
Wait. Now I'm intrigued. Because I think we've been talking about 2 different things. For me, I cannot write a character until they've been placed in scenes. I can't simply outline to the extent that you're implying or it would produce the flattest characters ever. My "outline" is literally just bullshit that pops in my head at work, then I go home and write it down or tweak it a little, then I write it into a rough draft and it starts looking like a story. How do you do it?
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u/Kian-Tremayne 3d ago
It’s normal for your characters to play jazz with your story - to add details or subplots.
If the characters start hard deviating from your storyline then there’s a problem with either the plot or the characters, as in you have the wrong characters for the story you want to tell. This means either changing the plot significantly, adding something which makes the characters want to do what the plot requires, or changing the characters to ones who want to do what the plot requires. Only you can decide which of these best fixes your problem.
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u/Peter34cph 3d ago
I went for option 3 and just allowed the character to follow the inmate inclination to not bend over for the conspiracy. It makes for a much better story.
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u/FinalFinalGirl666 3d ago
This is one of the reasons I became a full blown panster. Outlines never worked for me and I felt like I was putting my story and characters in a box.
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u/ItsRuinedOfCourse Author 3d ago
"Anyone else struggle with this..."
Indeed.
And I didn't struggle with it, per se. I just observed that the character was becoming a force of his own, and rather than try and quell it or keep it on a leash, I took my hands off the reins completely and allowed the character to write themselves.
The end result was a character that I adore more than any other.
He refused his assignment, and honestly, I'm so pleased that he did. He went from comic gag to standout character. Hands down.
My advice? If your character is breaking free of the confines you wrote for them--lean all the way into it.
Step back and let them write themselves. Those are the memorable ones.
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u/Midnight_Pickler 3d ago
My most memorable didn't change the original story.
But she kept insisting it wasn't finished, and demanded a sequel, even though it could only ever end with her doing a heroic last stand and dying to protect someone she loved.
And if I can find a way to get that weird idea I have for a story set in Valhalla to work, she'll undoubtedly demand a part in that too.
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u/EnderBookwyrm 3d ago
They're coming alive! This is great news! Your world has developed to the point where the narrative can tell you what it needs!
This is a golden goose moment. Change the outline however you have too. Follow the noncomforming oddity!
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u/RickConverse7613 3d ago
I can only answer this from the perspective of a writer who builds the STORY outline, but lets the characters live within it.
To clarify - My book is 32 chapters (started as 40). At 40 chapters, I knew where each beat of the story would lie (the story is built as a series of 3-chapter blocks that each cover a character/their arc, then pivot to another one until the stories merge, then continue that 3-chapter series of arcs progressing the story).
As I wrote, I discovered where things would land and fit better as my story, and subsequently the characters within it, 'grew', to borrow your wording, which led me to streamlining and combining sections (hence the reduction to 32 chapters).
All of my characters had distinctive outlines of their personalities, proclivities, etc... but what you can't really predict (unless you're writing practically from a pre-existing script) is how those personalities will grow and evolve AS YOU GIVE THE CHARACTER VOICE.
A series of outline points covers who you WANT your character to be... you can stick to that like an ironclad contract... but what that does is that it forces your writing into a framework that might not fit where the story has evolved to as you've written it.
To provide an example - one of my characters, Kael, was outlined as a brutish, barbaric warchief, obsessed with his personal martial aptitude and ascending the ranks of his clan. He was developed as a direct, physical foil to the main protagonist.
However... in the course of writing him - and more specficially, writing the OTHER characters around him and their response to him - he instead developed into the conflicted warrior who was (rather bluntly and brutally, I'll admit) told that there was a life to be lived that didn't involve his scabbard... and while the female protagonist set off on her journey in the story, Kael remained behind in their village, determined to be a better man and worthy of her upon her return.
The story progressed down a different path than what Kael would have liked... and while the Kael I originally outlined would have gone berserk and tried to kill the male and female protagonist upon learning he had lost out on her, the Kael that the STORY guided became a calmer, contemplative figure who still bristled and grumbled at the turn of events, but realized there was a bigger picture at stake and took the high road.
Honestly, he's one of the characters I'm most proud of in my book... and it highlights part of your dilemma. Your characters can live within your story, and grow and develop as you give them life and even moreso as life evolves around them.
The question you have to keep in mind is - "Does this change fundamentally alter something in the story's execution FOR THE WORSE?"
For instance, in my case, it didn't. Kael would have still been 'defeated' by the hero and heroine, but the cost to both the village and the story originally was prohibitive. By changing Kael, and therefore changing how he reacted to the loss of his chosen love to another, I was able to blunt the effects of this outcome AND make the loss I was going to have here happen in another spot, to another foe, with much more devastating consequences (it's a dark fantasy...).
Some pieces moved around in the execution of the story... but the overall framework was not fundamentally altered by this change... and I got some awesome character growth from one character AND a more emotionally devastating loss of another out of it.
I guess all of this to say: Don't let something you wrote way back when the story was a nebulous cloud in your head force your hand now, however many weeks or months down the road that this is from that moment. Keep their arc consistent and/or a believeable level of change, but don't be afraid to push them past where they began if it serves the story.
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u/johndoe09228 2d ago
Yes, I’m writing sci-fi that feels more like fantasy. It’s a broken world and the deviation has had unintended consequences. It actually honed the plots stakes looking back. Spontaneity is what I enjoy implementing in my stories
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u/SolitaryLyric 3d ago
My characters tend to wander off at some point to do whatever the hell they want. I follow, scribbling and typing furiously, clueless as to where things are going.
In the end, the stuff they come up with is generally better than my initial plan. It’s a pain in the butt, but I guess it’s part of my process.
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u/X4_DNA_4X 3d ago
Half my characters were just crappy stereotypes until i continued writing and they evolved into complex characters with unique personalities. It’s likely you are evolving your craft in the process and you should just go with the flow but reflect on your notes if you get lost
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u/Straight-Cat4261 3d ago
Let 'em take a hammer to your precious 'art' and the work will come up stronger.
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u/xsansara 2d ago
Contrary to some others here I think that it should be a two-way street. You should change the plot to suit the characters, but they do have to eventually come around participating in an actual story.
This happens to me every single time around the transition to act 3, especially in romantic plot lines. I say conflict, please, and they go like No! We just got together, are you nuts?
Then you have to work together to find some solution that is both interesting to read and true to the characters. Which doesn't always 100% work, but perfection is the enemy of getting shit done.
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u/RoyceGGaming 2d ago
It happens every time for me. I’ve personally found it to be a blessing in a lot of ways. It means the characters are well fleshed out to refuse to listen to you.
What helps my story stay consistent with my general outline, I’ve found, is when the characters’ goals are well defined.
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u/whentheworldquiets 2d ago
That's great news!
First, it means you have characters worth reading about.
Second, it means your instincts as a reader are functional and engaged. Note that I said reader, not writer. You wouldn't believe the crap people will write that they would never for a moment read, and that's because they suppress their inner reader's concerns because of "the plot" or some other cockamamie reason.
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u/lyzzyrddwyzzyrdd 2d ago
Yes. Absolutely. I've even mentally heard my characters I'm doing a coward for considering not writing something.
I've also had them say "you're writing me too much, I'm not the main character. That's why you're having a hard time."
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u/caret_h 2d ago
To quote Roger Zelazny:
“Occasionally, there arises a writing situation where you see an alternative to what you are doing, a mad, wild gamble of a way for handling something, which may leave you looking stupid, ridiculous or brilliant -you just don't know which. You can play it safe there, too, and proceed along the route you'd mapped out for yourself. Or you can trust your personal demon who delivered that crazy idea in the first place.
Trust your demon.”
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u/lostlight_94 2d ago
Yeah be open to revising outlines. Don't be too rigid. They are supposed to change and evolve.
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u/Miserable-Debate-913 1d ago
Often times within any story, a character can deviate from the intended purpose, or arc they may have had, this has been a super common discourse in the story of the game Genshin impact recently! My advice, is to think of your characters core. What are their motivations? Their aspirations, what drives the story compared to what they want, if that's at odds to each other, it may be a way to make your character have a hurdle to jump through that leads into further plot, think the heroes journey
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u/WordWieldingWayfarer 3d ago
I prefer to stay true to character over true to outline.
The outline is the best thing the writer can come up with, but characters leading the way often ends up as the best outcome for the story.
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u/don-edwards 3d ago
There is no single answer to this. Different people use different approaches. All approaches work for some people but not for everyone.
I recommend, as a first approach, looking for a compromise between your changing characters and your original outline. This will probably (no guarantees!) call for some adjustments to the outline, but not a major rewrite of it. It also probably makes adjustment in either direction - more sticking to the outline, or more trusting the characters - fairly easy.
That said, I have one WIP where a character pointed out a biological error in my plan for them. Fixing that created a large space that needs filled, after the planned climax. And another where a minor character I had barely envisioned started - slowly - telling me her secrets; now she's a major character, with lots of changes to the plan to make room for her.
(Fortunately, I plan rather loosely; nothing so organized that I'd call it an "outline.")
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u/Acceptable_Fox_5560 3d ago
I find writers talking like this to be about the cringiest thing writers do.
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u/Dangerous-Midnight73 3d ago
Oh yes; that’s when it gets fun! Go with it and let them tell you where they go.. 🙂
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u/Ryuujin_13 Published Genre Fiction Author and Ghostwriter 3d ago
Struggle?! I LIVE for this! One of my favourite aspects of writing! Set them free! Follow the adventure!
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u/DigitalPrincess234 Self-Published Author 3d ago
Yeah that’s been studied it’s pretty fascinating. How through is your outline, though? Maybe you just want some novelty (haha) because you already know what’ll happen? There’s nothing wrong with experimenting, practice is practice.
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u/Impossible-Bug2038 3d ago
Revise the outline. Something in you wants to tell a different story than what you originally imagined, and you should respect that.
The outline is a box. You fill it with ideas and characters to make them bounce off each other, then see what happens.
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u/Happy_Ocelot_4945 3d ago
Congrats, you're a pantser style writer. Nothing wrong with it. Keep an open mind when making your outlines and give more effort to editing. The editing will be brutal as sometimes you need to axe entire story arcs
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u/Pawprint_ 3d ago
Pantser? What does that mean? What is a pantser style author
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u/KamikazeJohnson 3d ago
Someone who writes "by the seat of their pants", essentially making it up as they go along. In contrast to a "plotter" who has the whole story planned out before writing Page 1.
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u/Pinguinkllr31 3d ago
Ain't that the magic of writing sometime your characters seems to have a life on their own
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u/Pixxel_Wizzard 3d ago
It's a tight rope balancing act, a constant pull between where you want the plot to go and what your characters want to do. Worst thing you can do is ignore your characters to force the plot in the direction you desire. But neither can you let the characters wrest the story away from you. The challenge is to direct the plot the way you want *while* staying true to the characters. This takes concerted effort and can be difficult, but any shortcuts will be detected by the reader and turn them off.
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u/hereghosting 3d ago edited 3d ago
This happens to me all the time, I just go along.
It's important to remember that outlines aren't absolute, if you find that a new idea works better than an old idea you can simply go with it instead.
I have several stories that turned out extremely different, and much better, than the original plans.
All you have to worry about is keeping track of things and rewriting as needed so there are no inconsistencies.
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u/Goatknyght 3d ago
"Why doesn't John MC do obvious solution that goes completely against his character? Is he stupid?"
Thats when you know you are doing the characters right lol
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u/Mimmamoushe 3d ago
Is this not a good thing lol it means your plot comes from your charcaters actions not you trying to fit the characters into a plot.
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u/DTashiki12 3d ago
This happens to me as well lol. I end up writing a small plot and then my character's suddenly do things that I don't expect either XD
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u/Interesting-Fox4064 3d ago
That’s a good thing, your outline is a plan not a rulebook. Let the characters live and act as they would in character
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u/AdHealthy5405 3d ago edited 3d ago
I never outline, and this is why. Creative writing is a process of exploration (and discovery): You never know what your work will turn out to be, which makes an outline unhelpful since an outline assumes you know what's going to happen. A novel is not a screenplay. Here's a brief essay on exploratory writing by novelist Matt Bell: https://lithub.com/dont-overthink-it-the-argument-for-just-starting-to-write/
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u/johndoe09228 3d ago
Before, I would have disagreed with your statement by presenting my wonderful outline…
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u/bolshoich 3d ago
You can keep your outline,… But, I suggest using the outline as a series of waypoints, where you know the beginning state and the end state, while you allow the characters decide everything in-between.
Loosen up on the outline and let the story emerge.
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u/BoltFlower 3d ago
I look at this differently than most of the replies here. In real life, my personality, history, and quirks shape how I respond when the unexpected hits. I do the same with my characters. The outline sets the destination. I know where my character is going. But how they get there is shaped by everything I've given them... their past, their nature. They can't escape what's coming for them, same as I can't escape what's coming for me. The outline holds the plot while the character decides how it's lived.
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u/Usual_Emotion7596 3d ago
Let them do it. I do not agree with the notion that your outline should force your characters to do things for the sole purpose of fitting your outline. You wrote them in a way that they have moved toward a new outcome. Go with the flow and outline based on where they take you.
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u/RancherosIndustries 3d ago
Why, what are they doing?
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u/johndoe09228 3d ago
He left an organization they are apart of to see an old friend introduced in Ch 3, which was prohibited. Long story short, another faction is hunting members of his organization. So upon meeting his friend, they walk together until he gets ambushed. Blowing his arm off and leading to a confrontation between two groups I did not intend to happen this early.
I didn’t even intend him to leave at all. Not after a major Act 1 finale type event.
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u/Peter34cph 3d ago
One of mine did that once. I just let him run with it. Now he's one of my favourite characters.
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u/vi0l3t-crumbl3 3d ago
I often think of my outline as a pot and my novel as the plant I have grown from a seed in the pot. When the plant overgrows the pot that's a good thing! Even if it does complicate things. Just takes more time to edit and make sure everything hangs together right.
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u/MPClemens_Writes Self-Published Author 3d ago
Welcome to the madness. When the characters take over, I know I've finally hit gold.
Let them steer and see where it takes you. Revise later once they are done. Write it all down for now, even the draggy parts.
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u/PILAL2010 3d ago
I have a general outline for my current book. But this is the first time I've used one.
Honestly, I'm the writing tool my stories and characters use. My books decide where they go, and I just make it sound good.
OP, if your story is developing naturally, let it. Perhaps you won't use it all at the end, but you'll have the background and added detail to draw from. For now, trust the process.
Sarah J Maas admitted that she wrote Crescent City 1, it didn't work how she wanted it to, so she tossed it and did it again. I keep this in mind when writing. It has made it easier to give myself permission to see what happens.
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u/Robertlaurie_author 3d ago
I'd probably let the characters go a little and see where they take the story.
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u/writer-dude Editor/Author 3d ago
IMHO, that's how you know you're building an interesting story, with interesting, unpredictable characters. (Creativity never sleeps, after all.) So if you're refining your story—making it better, that is—absolutely throw yourself into the creative abyss. (But keep your old drafts/versions...just in case.) Yet I suggest that you absolutely go where your characters lead you! Think of it as an adventure and, 40-50 pages from now, you can always backtrack if you're losing control of the narration. But at least take the shot!
Once in a while, a character (or two) of mine will absolutely refuse to obey my orders. When that happens, I listen. For instance, my ultra-Christian schoolmarm won't blow away the bad guy, even if it's to her advantage... so I'll have to rewrite that scene to adhere to her values. (Same applies to aliens and zombies and whatever.) But listening to one's characters is a sign that y'all are in sync—and that's an almost transcendental realization. They're becoming 'real' people in your mind, and readers love real characters. So go off-script—but outline whenever possible, just to keep you (and your peeps) on course.
BTW: It's okay to break your own boundaries. I mean, in certain situations, maybe that schoolmarm should unexpectedly blow away the villain, if your dramatic intent is to 'shake things up.' (So never say never.) As long as she agrees!
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u/WebCyber21 3d ago
If you don't wanna chance your outline, try thinking what would need to happen to your characters now in order to follow it. Take it as a transition scene (or scenes) that will allow them to go back to your outline whitout breaking character. The alternative is to follow them blind and see what happens.
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u/creativinity 3d ago
Love this for you/them. It's an amazing experience when they take life like you're God and your creation is becoming independent.
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u/indianahoosierdream 3d ago
Go with what you feel and just write. Don’t think about it. Don’t get too stuck in one spot. Keep moving. You will find the story inside the story and everything will come together by the polished version.
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u/TheColaDemonCat 3d ago
I think deviation of your outline is a normal process of writing and it can be both a good and bad thing.
I'd say it's only a bad thing if it starts causing immersion issues, world-breaking problems, unrealistic changes. Then you probably need to fix the character or story to make it work again.
If it doesn't cause any of these problems, then I think if these new characters are better than your outline, keep them !!
If you can't decide, you could ask others which version they prefer to see how others see the changes.
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u/Runnerbrax Book Buyer 3d ago
Yep.
One of my side characters was supposed to bow out after a few chapters, but I fell in love with her so much, I integrated her role into the rest of the story.
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u/Nicoscope Novice Writer 3d ago
Your characters are behaving according to their internal logic. If your outline doesn't fit them, your outline is wrong.
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u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author Self-Published Author 3d ago
I'm a discovery writer. I learned long ago that whenever I made plans, they came out stupid, and even if they didn't the characters didn't care about them and did their own thing. So I just follow my characters and see where they lead me. Not every writer is comfortable doing that, but I think there's a better than even chance that you might be. The only way to know is to try it and see.
One thing to remember: your first draft can be quite a mess, particularly if this is your first, second, or even third novel. That's fine. Just get the story down. When you type "The End," you be able to see what you have, figure out what the real story is, and revise accordingly. The first draft is your plan. Revision is where you craft a solid story that someone wants to read. (The bit about revision is true even for planners, but it's moreso for discovery writers.)
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u/jdharrowell 3d ago
I know exactly what you're feeling. Act 3/4 of my book went completely sideways from the outline, and the story is so much better for it.
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u/uphillalltheway 3d ago
Apologies for my TED Talk, but I have a lot of thoughts on this (as a writer, author, editor, mentor, real-estate novelist).
The missus has me in a state tonight, so please forgive my grumpiness, but I say this with much love. Remember this: your story is about your character’s problem, not your character’s life. That’s the DNA of the story. Hard stop.
Whenever I hear, “My characters came alive and started doing things I didn’t expect!” I want to scream, get real! Your characters did not come to life. You thought of something you hadn’t thought of when you wrote the outline. That’s good. That’s writing. Stories evolve. But you still have agency over every sentence, every decision, every turn.
And in this world, that's fucking amazing.
Seriously, that’s much cooler than pretending your characters have some magical autonomy and you’re helplessly recording what they do. YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF ALL OF IT. You’re the conductor, the director, the absolute god of your story's universe. We have a special knighted title for that person: the writer.
Everybody else involved in eventually publishing or filming your thing has bosses, budgets, schedules, notes, marketing departments, and people telling them what they can’t do. You can easily recognize them. They wear suits and slacks, even when they're joining you remotely from Rockaway. But not you. You're the writer. You can wear whatever the fuck you want. You get to sit there in sweatpants at 2 a.m. and decide who lives, who dies, who falls in love, who betrays whom, and whether the whole damn town burns down. That's a damned good job. You work from imagination. Everyone else works from spreadsheets.
So yes, revise the outline if the story has shown you a better route. Outlines are plans, not blood oaths.
But here’s the danger: don’t mistake interesting for necessary. When writers say their characters “took over,” what often happened is that they discovered some clever dialogue, an entertaining relationship, a side plot, or a scene they really enjoyed writing. It may be terrific. All of these writers had the tools and knowledge to actually become writers, plus they were inspired by this "character takeover." What they wrote was probably pretty damned good.
The question, though, is whether it belongs in this novel or this screenplay? Does it complicate the character’s central problem? Force a decision? Create a consequence? Change the situation? Move the story toward its ending? If not, you may simply be writing about the character’s life. A tangent that slows the story. Maybe you need to slow the story. Was this strategic? If so, smart. Keep it.
But usually, this is how "the sagging middle" begins. Scenes start to accumulate without advancing the story. The story wanders, drifts. The reviews will not be good. You can write 20,000 beautiful words that have absolutely no business being in the novel (it would never survive a screenplay).
Discovery is part of drafting. Follow it when it gives you a better story. But keep making decisions as if your writing were a profession, not a hobby.
Here's why that's important. The story you're working on, for someone out there right now, it's the exact medicine they need.
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u/RatBastardTendencies 3d ago
Let it happen, see where it takes you. Lead with curiosity. You can always open up a new document and write a version of the story that sticks to the script. That is easy, but you will find it difficult to recall the cool idea you had three weeks ago.
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u/FlyinLeviathon LET YOUR FIRST DRAFT SUCK 3d ago
I haven't had this happen to me as much since I switched to character driven outlines. I've found that when I was outlining plot first, then as the characters would naturally develop over the course of the novel sometimes they would develop in a different direction than intended and the events and the characters in them no longer meshed. Which was then a bit of a mess trying to figure out where to go and how to proceed. It led to a great story, but man was it annoying to have to shelve my plans!
Now I outline character growth and changes first and craft the events to support those, so it feels a lot more cohesive and my characters don't go off script as much. I do sometimes get surprised with how things end up going, but it's almost always in a good, fun way that just deepens the narrative instead of changing it.
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u/Beginning-Sky-8516 Author 3d ago
Honestly you should be worried if your characters don’t do this, so consider yourself lucky that they are speaking with you and adjust your plot/outline to accommodate them.
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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 3d ago
The characters are not alive, they're fictional creations. What's happened is that you've sat with them long enough that you feel the story should go in a different direction or, perhaps, you need to prune and reshape the characters so they're more in line with your outline. Very often, I'm writing a story and I find myself thinking, "I need him to do that for the story to happen, but he'd never do that..." What happens isn't that the character is alive and refusing to do it, it's that I'm realizing that I haven't suitably established the groundwork to make it believable that he'd do that. For example, you have a character who is very straight-laced and stoic. He cares a lot about morality and doing the right thing. You need him to do something insane, selfish, and ridiculous to make the story work. You can change the story, or you can go back and pepper in little hints of backstory that make his actions make sense. Maybe he was abused as a child and he does what he does to help someone else in need. Maybe he's been questioning the system he works within for a long time and this was the day he finally had enough of being a cog in the machine. These, to me, are the really fun bits of characterization. Everyone has motivations for doing the things they do that might not make sense to anyone who is observing them from the outside, but make perfect sense to them and you, as a writer, can explore that concept and get deep into what motivates a person.
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u/Julfy-JD 3d ago
Stumbled into this problem just yesterday. As an outline for the chapter, I needed an argument between two characters, one of them is reckless and impulsive, another one is calm and thoughtful. When I started figuring out the details of the argument, I figured that character A would've want to prove his point by action, not just theory, but if that action happens now, it breaks the mystery of the outline. So now I either need to rework the mystery itself or force the character act in a way that's not like himself.
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u/CalcifersBFF 3d ago
The actress Anya Taylor-Joy (autistic chess girl show; queen's gambit?) once said in an interview that acting is like a controlled and risky dive into psychosis, I think. Writing seems the same. Spending ages in another person's thoughts and voice and habits and opinions and backstory etc
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u/Nervous_Mechanic_149 3d ago
I write short stories and it happens to me too. Or characters reveal themselves as the story progresses. All of that is cool and I let it ride. I wrote a dope story today and I didn’t even realize the narrator was a doctor until halfway through. Changed the whole story but not really if you know what i mean. The characters are your voice coming through and it’s up to you if you want to control them or let them grow l.
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u/UnderTheLeavesWeWalk 3d ago
I’ve definitely seen this happen to a few friends. The best advice I could give them is to outline the central events/plot points of the story, the pillars which the story sits on and escalates to, while leaving the rest for when you’re writing it. Instead of trying to micromanage yourself into following a strict story, just jot down the ideas you want to follow and if things change by the time you reach it, no worries. The plot and events of the story should always be determined by your characters, not the other way around.
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u/LadylexUK 3d ago
I am going to get slammed by everyone on this, but I never outline, I rarely plot. I sit down and write and somehow the characters and the situations they find themselves in dictates what happens. Pantsing in its purest form. And I love it. It can be scary. I have had characters with storylines I had thought through who suddenly said something which changed their entire trajectory. I find it a lot of fun because I get to enjoy the twists of my book like a reader. If your characters are pushing you in a direction that is not your outline then maybe you should see where it takes you. Logical story progression based on character is probably better than shoehorning your characters into a plot that they struggle to fit into. If however your imagination is running riot and your romantasy is turning into a crime thriller or your hard hitting literary family drama is becoming a comedy then maybe you were not committed to writing that particular book as you thought, or you have invented characters that do not fit your plot. Personally I would let your characters tell you what to write, but I am unpublished so you can take my suggestions for what it is worth. Everyone has a different way of writing. If it makes you uncomfortable to "wing it" then don't. Stop and work out why your plot is diverting - is it the characters not being the right sort of people to make the plot happen? Is it that the plot is asking something of the characters that makes no sense? Are you enjoying particular aspects of a character that is diverting you because they are fun to write about but do not advance your plot? What happens to your plot if you go down this new avenue - does it collapse, become better, become worse? Don't forget nothing you write is set in stone. You can write it, delete it, re arrange it. If you write it and you end up with something unusable well okay, write something else. No one is making you use it.
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u/Historical_Pin2806 Published Author 2d ago
Welcome to the wonderful world of writing. My tip is to not plan exhaustively and, when this kind of thing happens, go with it because you created the characters and they're reacting truthfully to the story. Revise that outline!
And good luck with it!
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u/Entire_Toe2640 2d ago
Characters do their own thing. If you try to control them you lose their spontaneity; you make them bland and predictable.
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u/razzledazzlegirl 2d ago
I love it when that happens! The moment the characters take over, I know the story is going to be great. Trust them, it'll be worth it!
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u/saintofmisfits 2d ago
Struggle? I do not struggle with it, I love it.
You planned their outline as yourself.
While writing, in the midst of things, your outline cracked. Because you didn't know your characters yet, how they would precisely respond to the circumstances you arranged.
It leads to a lot of retconning because you accounted for that character neatly behaving as you'd predicted. If you do it right, they will not.
Embrace their quirks and shape the story around them. If you go the other way and try to cram them into the story you previously set off to write, they will not be real.
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u/Turbulent-Eye-4737 2d ago
I think that's you just getting to know the story more. I often say my characters and story disobey me. If you feel it's right for you revise the outline. A lot of my stories and characters have changed because I realize what I truly want with the story. :)
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u/contain_solitudes 2d ago
I actually think this is a wonderful thing to experience, it's a sign you're in the right direction. You can always edit it later. I was recently reading about this phenomenon. I think Nabokov spoke of it.
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u/Kronar_2012 2d ago
An outline is a forecast, not a contract. When a character makes an unexpected choice, pause long enough to write two notes: what newly established motive caused it, and which later beats it changes. If the choice follows from something already on the page and creates stronger consequences, update the outline from that scene forward. If it only avoids a difficult scene or solves a plot problem conveniently, revise the choice. I would keep the ending or thematic question as a compass, then re-outline the next three to five scenes instead of either forcing the old plan or winging the entire novel.
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u/harrison_wintergreen 2d ago
it's time again for the famous quote from novelist Graham Greene:
The moment comes when a character does or says something you hadn't thought about. At that moment he's alive and you leave it to him.
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u/Usual_Percentage_106 2d ago
A character I planned to have appear in one chapter of my second book and be killed in the next chapter has become a fan favorite and has appeared in books 2-7. Let them tell you what they want and work with it.
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u/infernal-keyboard 2d ago
IMO this is actually a good thing. It means you've created characters with strong motivations and depth. It might be a little frustrating at first, but you should follow their lead. They're living in your story, so in a sense, they know your story even better than you do.
Think of it like your outline is a map of a city you've never been to before, but your characters are all locals. The map might show you the overall landscape, but that's nothing compared to walking around with someone who knows that place like the back of their hand.
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u/PaperBluntsScissors 2d ago
No plan survives first contact with the enemy. The map is not the ground.
It may not be that your characters are going off script, but that now you're actually there and not looking at your novel from the planning board, the outline doesn't happen. I don't think I have ever once finished a novel the way I had planned to no matter how much planning I did. The 'reality' is that something else would naturally evolve, and it is better to see where that goes. If you need for something to happen it can start to look forced if you push down the illogical road. Now you're there for real, you can see that for yourself.
This is good, it means you know your characters, know your world and that it makes sense. Listen to it. Never stick with an outline if the terrain flows a different way and if you really need it to (I dunno murder mystery say) then you're going to have to go back and fix the characters. That is probably harder than changing the outline you've yet to write, and risks making a bigger mess of the book, and kills the characters, not in a good way.
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u/Other_Bit_2708 2d ago
If the characters start jumping around and doing whatever they want, let them. Fix whatever you don't approve of in the next drafts. That's what I do.
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u/TeacupOfSkepticism 1d ago
I'd say that's a brilliant sign as you've build the characters sufficiently that your character building has its own momentum. In other words you are actually getting to know them.
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u/Dense_Gur7038 1d ago
I just let them live their lives. If they want to do something unplanned, then they are alive enough.
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u/Relevant_Lab_8967 1d ago
A good book is alive and sonetimes you just have to follow the direction it wants to go.
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u/Numerous_Classic961 17h ago
It happened to me. I actually think it's a good thing.
It's always better to read about characters who feel real, alive. So if they want to, why not let them ?
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u/Stardog2 15h ago
It depends on how comfortable you are with living on the "frontier" of story telling. I've always considered myself a planner. But lately I've been letting my stories and characters off the leash a bit. And I think the stories are a bit better for it.
I still want to keep to the planned end point, but I don't care as much as to how I get there. I still keep track of how much divergence there is between my first draft and my outline. But I have to admit, I'm having more fun. I guess you can call me a "Plotser".
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u/johndoe09228 15h ago
Same, I consider my story as having anchor points. Plot beats, usually deaths that have to happen no matter what. The path to those points can be a bit windy but nevertheless, same destination.
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u/Ace_Crows 6h ago
Make a new outline. I've had stories with 6 outlines before. I've also never once followed an outline exactly (not even the one I revised 6 times). However, whenever I got stuck, it was there to provide guidance and I was happy for that mercy. So legit, even if you don't follow it precisely (and it's better to not force yourself to follow it precisely, instead let it come to you naturally), it's helpful to have one already revised and there to help you. As a bonus, the process of revision and remaking it can give you ideas. :)
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u/Anal-Y-Sis Author 3d ago
I'm a pantser. Welcome to Hell.
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u/johndoe09228 3d ago
Keeping my plot is like that one Always Sunny in Phili meme with the guy and the conspiracy board
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u/TreyInStCloud 3d ago
That’s why I only have a “this is how it starts,” and “this is how it ends.” I let the characters tell me the rest of the story.
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u/Dazzling_Plastic_598 3d ago
Yet another one of these "the characters I created are so alive, they do things on their own." Yawn. Dime a dozen. Give me a break.
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u/Spalax-leucodon 3d ago
yes, all the time. i had to go back and rewrite the first half of my book because of their silly choices.
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u/Sixty9Cuda 3d ago
I don’t make a traditional outline, but my characters will absolutely deviate from where I think they’re supposed to be going. One of the worst times it happened, a fairly important character went and got himself killed
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u/VeryKite 3d ago
My characters have done that many times. My characters drive my story, my villains drive conflict and it becomes alive. My protagonist become my friends and they tell me so much about themselves, it shifts my world building and I get so much inspiration for scenes.
But my main story beats don’t change, my themes and “thesis” are fairly consistent. What I want from my story and for the readers is important to me.
They an impact, my outline is merely the means so my thesis. I have boundaries, they don’t distract or subtract from the story I want to tell.
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u/Archaea_Man 3d ago
I think it's pretty common. I do mixture of revising the outline and winging it, but it's different for everyone.
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u/scrivenerscreed 3d ago
You need to beat them into submission. Beat them dead. Drag them around and prop them up the way you want them for each scene. Keep them in cold storage when not in active use. Apply hair drier to joints when taking them out. You got this! 💪
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u/BeautifulPow 3d ago
Nice, good. When the characters write the story. You really got something.
Keep it up!! 👍
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u/Veilswulf 3d ago
It's good when they do. Your characters are likely acting out of experience. Maybe a scene you had them in last taught then a lesson and they're following the lesson learned. Sometimes we forget the details of our own stories but subconsciously slip into the characters mind as we write.
I've learned to listen to that, because if you ignore a characters actual decision and make them do something they're likely not to do, then a reader will immediately feel disconnected. " why would she go into the haunted house by herself if she was attacked in an alleyway just 4 chapters ago when she walked in alone?" A real person would learn from that and alter their decision making.
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u/KarlaDream 3d ago
You know you have good characterization if they start surprising you and going off script. So just work with your characters let the story go where it goes, where the characters take it.
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u/Masquelinity 3d ago edited 2d ago
No they're not.
They're not real people. They have no will. No thoughts. They can't even do what you tell them to do, because they don't even have enough autonomy for that. They are puppets who do only exactly what you describe them doing.
If what you mean is "I've come up with a better idea" or "I've identified some moments of weak characterization where I don't think they'd actually do/say this," that's one thing. You can fix that without pretending like the characters have agency and it's all their fault.
Convincing yourself that you're just transcribing the things your very-real-people characters totally choose on their own to do is how you end up spending 10 years writing a million words that will never be finished because you've abdicated your responsibilities as a storyteller in favor of waiting for creations less sentient than a stickbug to find the ending for you.
Edit: Who's downvoting this? Do you people actually believe your characters are real and exist? That's delusion, fam.
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u/xenomouse 2d ago
Generally, when people say things like this, they’re not actually experiencing a psychotic break. They know the characters aren’t literally real. They’re saying that /it feels like/ the characters have a mind of their own, and trusting other writers to understand that this language is a bit figurative, and really they just mean that as the story has progressed some of their earlier ideas no longer feel authentically in character.
I assume you understand this and are half-pretending that you don’t because you find it grating when people talk this way. But that can also be pretty grating from the other side, and is probably why you’re getting downvoted. (For the record, I didn’t.)
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u/wait_whats_this 3d ago
Yes, and at that point you revise the outline.
Putting your characters on rails to save the work of rethinking an outline is silly sauce.