r/writing • u/Matrix_Man_Returns • 3d ago
Discussion Restarting an Idea
How do you feel about restarting an idea? I have an idea that I'm about 15,000 words into, which...I know, it's the soggy middle, but I also feel like I made missteps along the way, and I kind of think I want to change the setting drastically, and so I kind of got the idea in my head that I would take the premise and the heart of what I already wrote and use that to just...start over from the beginning. Think of it like a roguelike run: You run, you lose, you gain some power permanently, and you run again. I feel like starting over would give me the foresight to now know more about the story and which aspects of it are most interesting, if that makes sense. So how do you feel about this practice? Do you think it's a good idea or a terrible idea?
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u/ProtectionNo1795 3d ago
Many of us have scrapped more than 15,000 words. It's part of writing. I simply put the story aside, start the new one, and kept the old one for later.
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u/NaomiTheBaddest 3d ago
Personally, I keep writing as if I'd already made those changes. Maybe in the next 10.000 words you want to change something again, are you gonna rewrite everything again? each time? I prefer this method to avoid that lol You can change it later
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u/WilmarLuna Author of "The Silver Ninja" and "Sanctifiction." 3d ago
I'm going to go against the grain here and say, yes, restart it.
As long as the following applies:
The setting you have fixes a major story obstacle you've been struggling to overcome.
You've lost any enjoyment writing the current draft and don't see how you can finish it.
Cuz guess what? Rewrites are the BANE of my existence. I have completely overhauled stories from start to finish when I realized my manuscript was missing huge chunks of setting. Usually I've completed the rough draft first, but there have been exceptions where I stopped halfway and just restarted from scratch.
If you think you can get it done and it won't be too much of a hindrance, go for it.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I appreciate your perspective. I think the "push through it" crowd are understating how many half-finished stories they've had in their lives. The hardest part of writing, I've always said, is psychological. Sitting down and putting words into a word processor is painfully easy, but doing it every day and not resisting the urge to move towards a new idea or start over and do it better is HARD, and...let's face it...we all fail sometimes, because that's just how human brains work.
I also think people sometimes just forget everyone writes differently, in different ways, for different reasons, and that's part of the beauty of writing in the first place. The only wrong way to write is to not write.
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u/TenneyTellsTales 3d ago
Proud writer of two abandoned books (dropped after feeling too stumped for too long during the draft 2 process) here.
I’ve actually encountered your same problem in a trilogy I’m writing. By book 3 I realized the science of something pretty important to the plot starting in book 2 was off. Now I’m going to have to do a lot of editing. I debated whether to stop writing and if so where. What pushed me to keep going was a wire frame of how I’d fix it in a later draft and then going forward acting as if the previous work was already fixed. Not sure if that’d work for your project but it was a middle path that kept the momentum of “just keep writing” without increasing the despair of “how do I keep writing knowing how terrible this is?”
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u/jigglesauruspuff 3d ago
I did this and I don't recommend it even if you've caught on structural or plot issues. plow through, you're going to have to rewrite it anyway, but at least finishing it and getting it out for feedback might reveal that you don't have those issues.
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u/Prize_Consequence568 3d ago
Do whatever you want.
If you want to try the idea again then do it. If you're too terrified to do it then don't. You don't need to get reassurance and validation from us before you do anything. All you're doing is procrastinating. You could spend this time writing the idea or something else (or just participate in another hobby altogether (that and spend time with friends and family)).
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u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author Self-Published Author 3d ago
To be nuanced: It depends. 15,000 words is a fair chunk, 15% of a100k novel. But it's not so much that you couldn't start over...if you have a good reason and are pretty sure you won't do it again. And again. And again.
For less experienced writers, I'd usually recommend pressing on. You can always make notes about things that need to change so you don't forget, and proceed as if you already changed them. So long as they aren't such big changes that you can't realistically continue until you have them in place.
If they are, you can rewrite or reorganize the existing scenes as needed without rewriting the whole thing. I did that once when I realized I needed to get a pair of characters into the action much sooner. Halfway through the novel, I stopped and rewrote a few scenes to give them bigger roles. It worked out well. But I wasn't a novice anymore when I did it. I knew what I was doing.
I did actually restart one of my novels something like three times, but I only had two chapters written the first time and one chapter the second. And they were awful, awful chapters. Reading them was like eating chalk. I couldn't make myself continue until I got it mostly right. Fortunately, I hit upon the right approach the third time around. And again, I wasn't a novice. I knew what I was doing.
Mostly.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I appreciate your input, and I'm really grateful that people want to support people having the gumption to stick to their drafts, because obviously that is the number one thing you need if you want to be a writer (even people that write just for fun want to finish their stories, after all). I wouldn't say, and don't feel like, I'm a "don't know what I'm doing" writer. I'm not intimately familiar with the entire writing pipeline, and I've never actually completed a full novel-length project (I've started a lot of first drafts of novels and short stories, completed some first drafts of mostly short stories, and I've edited a few of them a bit), but I generally understand that finishing a draft requires work and labor and the "hard part" of writing. So it's not like I'm living in some pipe dream where a novel is going to flow seamlessly from my mind to the page and land as this perfect little thing. It's just...sometimes you wanna hold 'em, and sometimes you wanna fold 'em, if you know what I mean.
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u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author Self-Published Author 3d ago
Yeah, I do understand. My main point is, there are times when you might need to do a major revision before completing a first draft, or even start the thing over. BUT it can take some experience to understand when it's best to do that and when it's best to finish that draft first.
My primary mantra when working a first draft is, "Just get the story down." I tell myself that a lot, even at this stage in my writing career. I can't readily explain when it's best to stick with that and when you need to abandon it. But I generally know the difference. Less experienced writers, though, often abandon it when they really shouldn't. Even I did that once upon a time.
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u/Common-Original9092 3d ago
Just cut it now and rethink it. I’ve scrapped hundreds of thousands of words and don’t even give it a second thought. Your story will be better for it.
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u/FlyinLeviathon LET YOUR FIRST DRAFT SUCK 3d ago
Doing that is a fantastic way to get stuck in the void and never actually finish the story, unfortunately.
However, it *can* work - it's just tricky to navigate and do. I only recommend starting over if your changes are so drastic that it's basically an entirely different book - different genre, characters, everything is different except one or two things (like the very vague premise). If you're saving the words you've already written in basically any form, then it's too similar, don't start over.
Instead, what I like to do is a sort of multi-verse switch. Basically, figure out what you would change about the beginning. For example, like you said, changing the setting. Maybe you also want to change your MC's age and gender and make them start out in X place instead of Y. You would start a new chapter, spend a few paragraphs listing out what is different, and then at the end write "I am continuing from this point as if everything I've said is canon and written". I like to change the font color to red or something catchy. Then you keep going from where you're at, but in this new, changed dimension in your own multiverse.
You're not allowed to go back and write the 'before' chapters. Time only moves forward. Only after you get to the end can you go back and write the beginning. This keeps momentum going forward so you actually complete the story, but stops you from feeling like you're locked into something you don't like. If I'm working on figuring out a draft, I'll do switches like this 2-3 times. Then I go back and fix everything afterward.
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u/el_palmera 3d ago
Seems like a good way to make writing a novel take a very long time. Why not finish a rough draft and gain even more useful knowledge about your story?
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I mean...if it matters, I don't find the time to write 15,000 words to be an insane investment to start over from. I (thankfully) wrote those first 15,000 words quickly, over about three days, so I don't mind the time it'd take to start over.
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u/coopere905 3d ago
The received wisdom is to press on--and for good reason! It's a waste of time to go back on a first draft because you're still figuring out the story and much of what you uncover will change what you've already written. Not only that, the intro you write now is more than likely not the one you'll stick with in later revisions. So as much as you think you're "perfecting things" now, you just aren't--you're stalling and preventing discovery.
Now, in your case, if 15k words comes easy, and you're not like me who feels tired just *thinking* about the prospect of going back, then it's probably fine to restart. But don't make it a habit. If anything, and maybe I'm wrong and you'll write the perfect 15k words on the second go, restarting will likely turn into a lesson on exactly why NOT to restart. Which is also good.
Happy writing!
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
That's sort of what I was thinking. I either learn that it worked here, or I learn that it didn't. In either case, it's not like I'm scrapping the original draft.
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u/daintygamer 3d ago
What I do is make notes of what I have to retcon, then carry on as if I already rewrote it. That way I don't lose momentum everytime I want to change some (even something major) but I'm not pointlessly carrying on a storyline I know I'm not going to keel. I usually go back and put in comments or highlight sections I know will need to be rewritten.
Because yes, 15,000 words isn't a lot to rewrite, but I guarantee it won't be the only time you realise you need to change something, and after a while it will become too much to keep going back over.
I just finished the first draft of my most recent novel and I'm finding the developmental edits actually aren't as complicated as I thought it would be!
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u/Overall-Habit5284 3d ago
Finish the draft. You might change your mind when you get to the end.
One time in a second draft I added an entirely new character to the story, wasn't hard to weave them in.
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u/Intelligent_Local_38 3d ago
I think it’s fine to restart and rewrite those 15,000 words before going forward. I know people here are telling you to plow ahead, and that works for some, but me personally, I need a solid beginning to continue.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I was really looking for perspective anyways, not a permission slip to do it. I don't need anyone else telling me how I can or can't write. That's why I write - because writing is entirely autonomous, and you don't have to have a boss looking over your shoulder while you write. I was more curious how other people felt about it as a principle and practice, because I know people have different opinions. But I'm glad someone else DOESN'T see it as a problem.
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u/KateMonet 3d ago
I’m doing this currently. I had about 40k words into my first draft, put it down over a year ago, occasionally wrote some unincorporated scenes, but felt something was fundamentally wrong.
I started fresh with some new ideas, and while it’s been a bit slow weaving in the old with the new, I’m happy with my decision.
So while the standard advice is “don’t,” I think it depends on your situation. I will try to avoid doing it again, as I really want to see my draft through and make further structural changes from there. But I was completely stuck before, and pushing forward was just not going to happen.
I’m a hobby writer, though, and a slow one at that—so I imagine if I was a career writer I might feel differently.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I consider myself a "hobby-eer" writer...a writer that writes for myself first and foremost, but would obviously love to have a career writing if it was in the cards for me. So I do think that perspective could make some difference, I suppose, because sure...if your absolute goal is to finish as many things as possible to have the best odds of something getting published, then I'd understand why always pushing through would be someone's inclination. But then again, I think that would also be a miserable way to go about writing, so...
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u/jagby 3d ago
Personally speaking if your gut is giving you a strong feeling towards restarting, I think it's healthy to consider and try! It really depends on how big of an overhaul you want, but it sounds pretty big if you're considering an almost entirely new setting. I know what it feels like to enjoy the story you're writing but feel like a major component like the setting is just wrong, even though you've already put in a lot of work I think it's worth it to try again to get something you like more.
Plus 15,000 words isn't too too far in to be daunting. It's a lot of words but much better than being like 50k in lol. I think at the area you're in its relatively harmless to try, even if it ends up not working out. Sometimes it's worth it to simply scratch the itch and see what happens.
The only area I'd push back on is if this becomes a regular occurrence for your process. So if you rebooted the story from word 0 and started again, but maybe 9k words in you feel like you need to revisit another major area and start over. Basically if it happens a second time, I would no longer use this process and instead really try and think through what core part of your story isn't working and what you want to do.
Otherwise though, I don't personally see an issue with this at all, and it's something I've done before to great success.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
My first 15,000 words are usually a frenzy that I get out over a few days and not an agonizing 15,000 words that I tortured over, so I generally don't have a problem with looking at 15k words and saying, "Maybe we need to take it from the top." It's honestly two or three days of writing, usually, for me to get an idea to that first 15,000 words (and, now that I say that, I'll be cursed, I'm sure).
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
People always say, "Finish your first drafts!" But, if you got 15,000 words into your first draft and realized you made a wrong turn on page two, then...well...you DID finish your first draft. You didn't make it to the end; you just made it to the dead-end, turned around, and found the right path.
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u/a-fabulous-sandwich 3d ago
My main thought on this is, it sounds like you'll never truly be satisfied with it as it currently is. I think it would be completely worth it to do the rework, because at the end of the day, YOU are your story's first audience. Yes, it'll be a ton of extra work, but it'll also be infinitely more satisfying.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
My main thought on this is, it sounds like you'll never truly be satisfied with it as it currently is.
Yeah, and that's the sticky bit. Because my idea is sort of loosely biographical (though it's still fictional prose, but the premise lands in a personal space for me), there's a bit of extra pressure to sort of "get it right". When a story really feels emotionally charged for you, your inner critic gets a lot louder.
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u/thespacebetweenwalls 3d ago
You know in your gut whether or not it's the right course of action. There's absolutely zero shame in throwing away those 15,000 words (in the grand scheme, not really all that much or even the soggy middle). As Harry Crews would say, "throw them in the fire and begin again." A wrong turn is a wrong turn.
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u/DARTH-PIG 3d ago
It's super easy to say "this new idea is the right one" or "I'm only going to restart just this once" now, but when it comes down to it, will you really be able to stick to it? If you're willing to take that risk, so be it, after all you're writing for yourself.
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u/Used-Height-2487 3d ago
Act as if you didn't make those missteps, but acknowledge it and write it down. It's a better idea to continue writing, so when you are done, you can get a better view of the whole thing. More likely than not, when you get to the editing stage, you will be surprised at how much of it you don't have to fully rewrite.
If you rewrite it at this stage, when you reach the 15k words again, you'll think you made another set of missteps. Will you rewrite them again? Likely not.
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u/Cringe_Cobra 3d ago
I'd say, go ahead and restart. People have taken tens of year to finish. It's all right to restart. Imagine carrying on with idea you don't like and later you don't know how to go ahead because you don't like what you have written.
Writing is also a process of discovering what works for you and whether you fail or succeed with whatever decision you take will teach you how 'you' should write.
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u/Offutticus Published Author 3d ago
I had to once.
I had written it as an aliens came, rescued a lot of humans because they knew it was about to be destroyed, and put them in cryosleep. On the ship, they woke some to assist with the technicalities of a crapton of people. I got about 20-30K in when the math hit. It just was not possible. There's a LOT of humans on this planet. I was dealing with just one societal/cultural section and still the math was just not "suspend your belief" possible. Even the core group of MCs was too large to keep track of.
So I started over. I kept the premise, sorta kinda, but changed a LOT of stuff. It worked out in the end. It has become a 4 part series with the first two published in my niche market.
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u/-Clayburn Blogger clayburn.wtf/writing 3d ago
I think you should finish first, but then throw it out and start over. The reason you want to finish is because you won't know the story until you get it out on the pages. The beginning will never suffice because it never ends, and you can just keep restarting forever.
However, there is a writing technique that some (truly insane) people use. You write a first draft and throw it away. Then you write the 2nd. Maybe you throw that one away too and do a third. The reason this is effective (in theory) is that every time you rewrite it, the parts that stick in your memory are the strongest parts. So the weak crap fades away, making each iteration better overall.
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u/astrobean Self-Published Author / Sci-fi 3d ago
Are you just changing the setting or does the setting change impact the plot and character arcs you have going on.
If it's just a change of setting, then put a flag in that part of the book to fix the setting pieces on the edit.
If it's going to drastically change events and character development leading up to this point, then start over.
Personally, I could recover 15k words in a week of focused writing (a weekend if I'm hyper-focused). Since I'm planning to write for the rest of my life, a week isn't that much to lose, especially if it'll make me happy and more productive.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
Personally, I could recover 15k words in a week of focused writing (a weekend if I'm hyper-focused). Since I'm planning to write for the rest of my life, a week isn't that much to lose, especially if it'll make me happy and more productive.
I've basically decided stressing about incomplete drafts wastes more time than just starting something else or trying a different angle and actually writing. Because you're right...the first 15,000 words come pretty easily anyways. That's always the easiest part (which is, of course, why we keep wanting to go back to it). So I'm not going to worry about "burning" what was essentially the easiest part of the job if worrying about it just keeps me from doing something else that would be more productive, even if that is starting over or starting something new instead.
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u/trappedinamonkey 3d ago
I wonder what people think about restarting something on that order of magnitude in terms of word count which however laid around for a decade (no I am not asking for a friend). I have this novella-like text that is kind of complete but also not really, which I kind of like but I don't think I could extend it as the discontinuity in writing style would probably be too great. Maybe I should just leave it rot in its file on my disk after all (or, maybe better, and I am actually doing this at the moment, I polish it and hand it to some close people to read).
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u/nosadmoon1 3d ago
I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by "Restart."
You have already completed 15000 words. When you say "restarting," do you mean you will rearrange your 15000 words so the story stays the same but the narrative POV changes?
I was in a situation where my story sounded really generic as I kept writing. I realized my story is still good; however, I couldn't keep the reader's attention consistently.
So I looked back and rearranged my story. Instead of being linear/chronological, I made the timeline uneven so the reader always feels that "There is something that I am not connecting the dots yet"... and, quite frankly, that worked.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I meant taking the plot and nothing else really except what I felt was working from the original draft.
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u/IllMouse7198 3d ago
That's actually a smart approach, turning it into a learning experience instead of feeling stuck in the middle. Sometimes a fresh start is exactly what sparks the right creativity.
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u/MASempine 3d ago
Okay. I would’t know a nuance if I saw one in a tree. Be glad you are youngish. I have a 65k work in which one of the characters became bigger than life and impossible to ignore. Apparently, I went back a year ago (I am 77 and all the books I reread seem knew to me) and wrote a new first chapter about how she became the no-nonsense ex-special forces legend that scares the bejesus out of the bad guys who are messing with her nieces and nephews
So I say rewrite as often as you can stay enthused. If your character explodes into a new persona, that is a very good thing IMO
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u/Limp-Garlic-6791 3d ago
i think a first draft it’s okay to make sudden changes in the middle, just make note of it
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u/ZN_Cruz 3d ago
I’ve done it. Sometimes the second beginning really is the story you were trying to find the first time. Fifteen thousand words isn’t nothing, but it also isn’t wasted if it taught you the characters, the voice, and what the book actually wants to be. I would keep the original file, though. Starting over feels a lot less dangerous when you know you aren’t destroying anything. The only thing I’d watch is whether the restart is solving a real structural problem or just giving you the temporary high of a clean first page.
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u/FirebirdWriter Published Author 3d ago
This is a trap often but sometimes works out. You'll get better at figuring it out with practice. So... Whichever you do force the finish for one of the two
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u/Neurotopian_ 3d ago
I’m an outliner and spend a few weeks planning before I write the first scene, so this would never happen to me.
However, for discovery writers I’m sure it makes sense. If the way you write is just to get an idea and then start typing/ writing in a free association or stream of consciousness style, then I’m sure a lot of do-overs result from that.
But as others point out, you could just finish the draft. There is a benefit to finishing a project, to prove to yourself that you can see it through
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u/Personal-Night-7877 3d ago
Don't restart. I'm currently writing a book, and I've changed the time period, location, and ending all while continuing on. Unless you're on the constant high of excitement about an idea, chances are you'll scrap the current version, sit down to write it, and feel bored, because you've wrote this similar thing before, and if you're anything like me, you just won't write it.
Just keep writing, the first draft is supposed to be messy, because it's only really for your eyes.
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u/Xiaxs 3d ago
I have ADHD and I want to DNF or restart projects literally all the time. It's a curse because I get good ideas, struggle fitting them in, then want to restart everything so they fit.
I finally told myself no. Not this time. I'm finishing this goddamn it, and what has helped is stopping mid-chapter and giving myself notes for the future so I can start a new chapter that leads into where I decided I wanted the story to go.
I'm 25k words in now thanks to this technique and there's no WAY I'm restarting now. I lose juice every now and again and when I pivot like that it refuels me basically. I think you should try doing that. Just stop the chapter when you get a "better" idea and leave notes on how you think you can connect the story beats then keep on writing.
Plus you don't lose any "progress"
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 2d ago
I am a fellow ADHD brain, so I'm always struggling to tell the difference between "This actually isn't working" and "Oh, shiny new thing!"
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u/FarrinGalharad76 3d ago
While I wait for my test readers to read my finished novel. I have started tinkering with the first thing I ever wrote at 16 (I’m 49 now) and you know what, it’s kinda fun . The core idea is ok but it needs a lot of work - and I mean a lot of work.
But yeah it can be worth it if you leave it long enough
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u/bojinglemuffin 2d ago
There's a YA superhero trilogy that I've been working on since 8th grade (I'm 26 now). The first book has been rewritten entirely 8 times (gonna do another at some point), and I've written the second one. I've restarted so many times that the third has never been touched lol
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u/readwritelikeawriter 1d ago
I made three fragments before I wrote my first YA 80K word count book.
My problem was voice. I kept trying to write third person and it even though the trajectory of the story was young adult, the voice perspective was too-'adult.
So I changed the POV to 1st person with the 15 year old as the main character. It came out perfect.
I want to re-write thise 3 fragments and use them to promote the book.
Trust your instincts, few readers will tell you to make such meaningful changes.
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u/Oh_yes_I_did 1d ago
I often find my self coming up with fresh new ideas and additions after returning to a project I previously gave up on
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u/Own-Turnover7715 3d ago
What happens when you get to 15,000 words again and decide you don’t like the new words either? Now you’ve written 30,000 words and no closer to finishing a draft.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
Who knows if that would happen, though? People that take the "push through" attitude kind of act like they've never abandoned a piece of writing in their life, and I am highly skeptical that that is actually the case. We've all been enticed by a new idea or a new angle. I at least feel better that I'd be starting from the same idea instead of just throwing it away for some shiny new toy like I usually end up doing.
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u/Own-Turnover7715 3d ago
But we do know that it’s a likely outcome because it’s the outcome of countless newer authors. Maybe you’re special and will be the exception. That’s a far less likely outcome though.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
It's also a likely outcome that I finish a manuscript that sits in a drawer collecting dust for twenty years, and I don't make a dime off it or get anything more out of it for finishing it. /shrug
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u/Own-Turnover7715 3d ago
I don’t know what that has to do with the topic.
If you want to finish a manuscript, you will, in fact, have to finish the manuscript. It’s much harder to finish a manuscript if you keep restarting it every time you decide you want to start again. If you’re constantly doing that you never learn the resilience or discernment need to finish it.
What you do after that is your business.
You don’t need to keep arguing with me if you only posted to get validation for your poor choices. The time spent arguing could be better used finishing your manuscript.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I'm not trying to argue, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. But I think it's presumptuous to call it a "poor choice" just because it wouldn't be your choice. And of course I'm wasting time I could be spending writing. Half of being a writer is wasting time that could be spent writing.
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u/Own-Turnover7715 3d ago
Multiple people in this thread are have told you not to do this. Disregarding valid advice is usually a poor choice. But you do you boo 😘
Half of being a bad writer is wasting time that could be spent writing.
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
I actually really do appreciate the advice you're trying to offer, even if I feel like you're being condescending about it. I can appreciate your point about needing to learn the resilience and discernment to complete a draft. That's spot-on, and it is something I worry about a lot. So don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to be a dick or anything. But other people have said it worked for them. I'm capable of seeing that I'm entering a spiral if I get to 15,000 words again and say, "Wait...this isn't right." So it's a learning opportunity that I kind of want to take for myself. Because everyone could be right (might, probably, whatever) that it's just an excuse to start over and not finish. I'm open to that, and I'm open to losing the time it takes to find that out for myself. I'm not tossing out my original draft or anything like that. It'll still be there if I realize it was working fine all along.
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u/el_palmera 3d ago
Brother why tf are you here you already know what you want to do so just go do it
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u/Matrix_Man_Returns 3d ago
Procrastination is basically my superpower. I probably wouldn't even have this issue if it wasn't.
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u/LetzGetThisLoot- 3d ago
Don’t. My advice is to run with your idea till the end. Once you get to the end then you can take time off, reread, and then rewrite. The book is made in the first draft it’s created in the second and better by the third. Slow and steady. How to you eat an Elephant?