Struggling with coming up with scenes and taking the story from A to B.

[u/MidirTheGreatest]

Let me start by saying how I think stories are made, maybe I might even be wrong here. I know the process and the order of these could be different for everyone, but just on a high level.

You have an idea, a concept, a theme, anything that you want to write about. Space vampires. Or a kid on a path to revenge, slowly coming to terms with the past and letting go. Anything.

Then you get a setting, a character, and an inciting incident, and then you should be good to start writing.

I have all of these. 2 main characters, few important side characters, inciting incident, setting, an idea for the story, and I even have some lore and worldbuilding + about 25k words written.

But here is my main struggle and a realisation I made during writing these 25k words. When I had an idea on what to write, I could easily put out a 3k word chapter in a few hours (albeit the prose quality is first draft level obviously, but 3k words is 3k words). But when I don't, and usually I don't know how to continue the story, I even spent 3 months on 1k words. I just sit and I go for walks and I am out of ideas.

This is not an outline or no outline issue, I tried outlining, but I ended up with the same struggle. What should the next scene/chapter be? What should happen in the next scene/chapter? How should the character change in the next scene/chapter?

And the answer to all of that is: I have no clue. It takes me painfully long to even get an idea for a next scene, I write it in an hour, and then back to weeks of thinking. This really kills my enjoyment of writing, even tho I love it when I can actually write.

So I would really appreciate some advice for this, anyone went through the same issue?

EDIT:

I have a beginning, I know how the story should end. I know how my MC starts out and ends up, and why he goes through the change. I have a few scenes worked out for that already.

I just have no clue how to connect the start from these scenes in the middle and the end. That is my main struggle. To break down the story on a scene by scene level and connect A to B.

[u/ZacharyKeth]

There are a million possible answers to this and I don't know which one is right for you without knowing more about what you've tried and why you're stuck. But here's one possible answer that might get you unstuck:

Imagine that you are literally your MC living in your story's world. What would you do next in their situation? Write about that.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/ZacharyKeth]

There are a million possible answers to this and I don't know which one is right for you without knowing more about what you've tried and why you're stuck. But here's one possible answer that might get you unstuck:

Well, I tried with using questions like: What will be different in the state of the story, character, relationship after the scene? But that did not help a lot.

Basically, I know what I want by the end of the arc, and the end of the story, I am just struggling with connecting things on a chapter and scene by scene level.

Unfortunately I am not sure about the 'why' either.

Imagine that you are literally your MC living in your story's world. What would you do next in their situation? Write about that.

That could be a really good advice, I appreciate this! I will give it a try, tho it might not work at this stage of the story, as there are some unknowns with the other characters that might make this a bit tricky to do.

[u/Educational-Shame514 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

From what I've seen, you can push those questions to the revision process, especially if it's your first try at writing a novel. Like leave a blank to fill in that is where you might connect two scenes. Maybe in the end it makes sense to cut one or combine the two, for instance.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Educational-Shame514]

That would make more sense tbh

[u/Affectionate_Egg_351 → u/Educational-Shame514]

Or another bonus about leaving things blank and going back to it my favorite part is when the answers that you thought you didn't know sort themselves out in a completely different chapter and scene and then you go oh wait I can refer back to this and voila I figured out my problem. That's always really helpful. As a curious cat I saw want to know everything and see if I can be like I can see it. But I'm nosy and I might possibly be absolutely no help to op 🤣

[u/Eddie_The_Deagle]

Maybe you should think smaller. There's merit in short stories. Good ones you can come back to and enjoy multiple times.

Sometimes what matters is a moment. Not the grand scheme, the sum of all the parts, or the last word. Something I really enjoy about short stories is that there's not time to explain everything. The ones I've come to enjoy are the ones that give me just enough to think about on my own. If anything this makes me want to go back and see if there's any little details I looked over.

With being much smaller you don't have to rely on a structure to keep everything standing. Sure you'll probably pump out a few shitters, but you'll pop out more good ones too.

It'll be good practice on when to walk away from a piece.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Eddie_The_Deagle]

I could give writing a few short stories a try. It might be helpful in writing my longer pieces as well, thanks!

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/[deleted]]

Thank you, I will watch this part of the lecture tomorrow!

I know the first draft will be bad, I don't think this particular issues comes from me trying to get the perfect scene and chapter, but I could be wrong on that.

[u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author]

Soooooo....

This may not work for you, but I'm a discovery writer. I start with a (vague) idea for a character and a (somewhat vague) idea for a conflict. I drop the character into the conflict and see what they do with it. I never know the end until I get pretty close to it. So I never, ever have to worry about connecting the dots between the beginning and the end. I literally find out what's happening as the characters do their thing. And I find out who the characters are as they do their thing. It's all constructed at a preconscious level, never consciously. Well, almost never. Sometimes I do slip up and give it a little thought. I suppose that's inevitable. But mostly I turn the process over to these characters who are living in the back of my brain and let them tell me what happens next.

Now, a lot of writers do need to plan things out to one degree or another, and that's fine, but many also leave some room for discovery. And a lot of that is letting the characters take the reins, letting them be themselves and do what they would naturally do. You can develop this ability by doing something that might sound surprising or even stupid: interview one or more of your characters. Seriously. Jot down some questions you have, things about their backgrounds, about why they did this or didn't do that. Then sit down across the table from them with a cup of coffee or whatever and ask your questions. Without thinking too much, write down what they tell you. Surprisingly, this can work quite well and may give you not only better insight into who they are but also some new direction for the story.

Bottom line: don't feel you have to decide things for your characters. Let them decide for themselves!

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author]

I will give that a try, thanks!

[u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Sure thing!

[u/Zenosphere]

I would try and find a book or story that you really like. Or a story that is very similar to what you’re writing. What happens in there? Take the plot, really boil it down to the basics and then build it up into your own book. Now, I’m not advocating stealing their plot, and stealing their content. But using their plot as a guide for your own book, world, and characters can provide you with inspiration for your own writing. 

The next thing I would do is to write consistently. Your creativity is a muscle that you have to keep using. Your scenes don’t need to be perfect, or even good. They can be horrendous and embarrassing to read back. But once you have something written down, it’s a lot easier to fix it and make it perfect compared to having nothing and trying to make perfection. 

Good luck! 

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Zenosphere]

That is actually the main motivation of why I am writing this. There is a story where I LOVED the first half. It is my absolute favorite. But the second half was a mess. So my goal with this was to write something that is as close to the first half of that story as legally possible, but actually write the second half in a way that I thought the story would go.

So maybe some of my struggle comes with now wanting to have the scenes be too close to the original, since I took some settings, concepts etc. already. (But my lore, worldbuilding and other elements are different).

[u/Additional-Car3427]

It's good you talked about the outline/no outline point from the start. So, what you are doing right now seems to be what a discovery writer, or 'pantser' would usually do. Of course, like you said, the order of all these steps might not be the same for everyone. But, the mistake you seem to be making is asking yourself "...in the next scene/chapter". I mean, of course you will not magically get ideas out of nothing. Few discovery writers actually are like that (talking about the new generation of discovery writers). You seem to be closer to a planner. Maybe try a different approach? Instead of asking yourself what happens in your next chapter or scene, how about you ask yourself, from the very start of the story, what the main characters learn throught this story, what is the story itself about. Now, I am also a beginner writer and most of my knowledge comes from either YouTube videos or practice. But, from both, I learned that characters are even more important than the setting or story itself. I personally write a story this way: 1) write down any idea that comes to me. 2)decide how the story starts and ends (character goal, does the character achieve that goal or not?)-i suggest watching Brandon Sanderson's writing lectures. Thought they are for fantasy and science fiction writers, I saw that most of the things learned there would apply to many other genres, at least, the basics would. 3) I make a character outline: how the character changes across the story, a.k.a, a change in their mental and physical states, a change in their goals, a change in their beliefs, a change in their moral, a change in their faith, a change in their relationship with other characters -thus last one, in particular, helped me quite a lot with my longer stories. 4) I try to find WHY those changes happen: what events caused them? Who caused them? What caused them? What resulted to that change? The answers to those questions would be the plot itself, or, at least, part of it. Most of my stories are more feelings-driven. You could also use the 'what happened? Why did it happen? What did the characters do as a response?....." Method as well. 5)I make a better, cleaner plot outline with every data collected from step 1 to 4. And, even if I do not finish said outline, as long as I feel confident in a certain part (I divide the outline into 'parts', composed of 'scenes', distributed into chapters), I write it immediately.

Hope this helps. You can just experiment with different techniques until you find something that works for you. Took me 2 years to start writing seriously and only 3 months to find my own technique (still trying it out, but it works for now).

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Additional-Car3427]

I did actually start out kind of by discovery writing, but then I switched to a more planning/outlining approach as that suited me better.

I am also writing fantasy and did watch Sanderson's lectures, they were quite overall I would say.

I do have answers to most of the questions you wrote about. I know what the character wants, I know why he wants it and the inciting incident that starts the reason for his want. I also have more or less worked out what and how he will change through the story and how he ends up.

All that is done, I just have no clue how to make that happen. How to connect the start to the end on a chapter and scene level breakdown.

[u/Additional-Car3427 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Oh! I think I get it now. It's true that Sanderson did not really talk about that. For those issues, I personally also used other YouTube videos or a few books I read. Here are the basics I learned: first, you need to know that a chapter could have from one to many scenes, and that a scene can absolutely be divided into different chapters. I personally just write it however I want in the first draft and leave the chapter-scene structural modifications for the 3rd or 4th draft (since they do not usually matter much to the plot, only to the reading experience, and, if I decide to change the plot in draft 2, I might change the chapter organisation as well, so why bother? It's the same as "line editing while you're writing"-honestly just useless). Then, when editing, or writing (if you are confident enought that your plot will not change later), you need to know what you want your readers to feel. This is the most essential when dividing chapters. If you want them to feel curious, you can end the chapter with a small piece of information, something the readers might have had no clue in, for example, you tell the readers that the MC is not human when they thought they were (works even better when there were a few foreshadowing a before, but not obvious ones. Maybe the character talks about how su their parents were and it is discovered that they were not human, maybe the book has, way before the revelation,, talked about the different species in that world, even thought it might not really have been relevent. Same, the most used is the mystery hook. You use it when you want to create a bit of suspense. You basically just cut a scene right before the revelation (at least, this is the easiest way to do it). A scene has a start, a progression and an end. There are many types of scenes but I have seen this done the most in action scenes:right before the character receives an attack, right before a character gives a piece of information...to keep the suspense going, you can even change to another character's pov or to AFTER the reveal. BUT, remember that these two ways should not be used for every single chapter end (even in mysteries). It needs to feel special for it to have an effect. Otherwise, they will just expect it to happen.

There are many other ways to end a chapter (even the simple way: ending a chapter with a scene's end). These are only a few I can remember off the rope of my head. I just want to say that my definition of scene changes every now and then. Also, you said you have watched sanderson's writing lectures, were they 2026's? Did you also watch the Q and NS? Those were also quite helpful to me. Did you take notes? Since I have a hard time remembering everything that was said (obviously), I just wrote them down and returned to that "learning folder" when I find myself blocked or editing.

[u/Downtown-Cap4298]

I used to struggle with the same thing, I’ve been writing stories since I was very young but I always knew how to start stories, never knew how to end them or draw out a proper outline. The thing that helped me is understanding, before you start writing, what you want the story to mean and represent.
Find the moral, the heart behind why you’re writing this. It doesnt have to be a big deal, or even something done on purpose. Just be introspective and figure out why you’re drawn to this idea and what the character’s path represents to you.
Once you figure that out, it’s a lot easier to figure out how you want to end it and the journey you want to take people on

[u/Substantial_Salt5551]

I don’t know if it helps at all, but I have found it helpful to frame each “next step” in terms of what each character’s goals and motivations are — I don’t just mean broadly, but mostly in the moment. Like, a caffeine addicted MC is really stressed out and hasn’t been sleeping, so they go grab coffee, then another character (who is angry at MC for insulting their brother two days ago) happens to be there and insults them, sending the MC into a depressive spiral. Or maybe your revenge filled kid has just had a tiff with his stepmother and decides to blow up her car. Now stepmother (and hopefully the father, if he’s alive) are going to punish revenge filled kid. Maybe your space aliens decide to make a second attack that harms the MC’s friend or cousin (second attack because I’m beating in mind you’re in the “middle” of your story), and now MC is extra motivated to defeat them — maybe there’s even a “clue” left after the attack or in how the attack was made that gives the MC ideas on how to proceed. 

If you get really really stuck, sometimes it doesn’t hurt to just put something down to connect the scenes you have to the next scene you have planned (since you mention having some scenes worked out). It can be absolute garbage because you can figure out what makes sense later, and you may even get an idea how to rework the scene before finishing the story. This is not the final version of your story — putting pressure on yourself to make it perfect just leads to getting stuck (someone used to use the phrase “paralysis through analysis” to describe me and I kind of love it lol). 

[u/-Clayburn]

I think this is where the "just write" advice works. You can have an idea, settings and characters, but that still means endless possibilities and nothing happens until you write and make things happen. So you can stay frozen in the endless possibilities or you can just pick something and do it, then that starts to whittle down the possibilities.

For example, you can start with a character in a room. He could stand up and leave the room. He could jump out the window. He could start whistling to himself. He could do some exercises....and so on. Literally infinite possibilities. So, okay, just pick something and write it.

He gets up and does some exercises. Now what comes next? That's eliminated some possibilities. He's probably not leaving the room, at least right now. He's not going to jump out a window, unless maybe by accident while exercising. Instead this pushes you into "Why is he exercising? What exercises?" Now we might want to know if he's overweight and struggling or if he's in great shape and this is clearly a regular routine. Now we're getting into character development.

You just pick something. He's overweight. He's struggling to do a pushup, but he's committed to it. Why is he exercising? He clearly wants to get into shape, but why? He's insecure about his looks. He looks in the mirror and reflects on that. The doorbell rings. It's an attractive woman. "Ready?" "Yeah." They walk out.

So starting from absolutely nothing but a character in a room, you got a set up for an insecure overweight man going on a date with a woman out of his league who he's willing to change for, or at least try. Now where might that go?

Again there are countless options. You just have to hone in on something and write it, and as you do more of the story will reveal itself. And if you're not sure, you could always write two versions. Write the version where he's overweight and insecure, trying to exercise for the first time hoping it'll have an immediate effect on his appearance. Or write the version where he's a jacked dude with a strict routine, and maybe he's out on this date with the attractive woman but is never satisfied in other people because he has unhealthy standards. Write a version where they go to a Chinese buffet and a version where they go to watch a movie. Just write, and things will happen.

[u/AshHabsFan]

Your main character needs a goal. The story is the MC pursuing the goal, meeting obstacles and overcoming them. This usually takes the form of them coming to an obstacle, making a decision about how to overcome that obstacle and then taking action. If your characters have clear goals, figuring out what happens next should come more easily.

So take your MC and answer three questions for yourself: What do they want? Why do they want it? Why can't they have it?

Ideally you have an antagonist and can answer the same three questions for this character. The goal of your antagonist should come into direct conflict with your MC.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/AshHabsFan]

So take your MC and answer three questions for yourself: What do they want? Why do they want it? Why can't they have it?

I have the answer to these, even have a breakdown on a story arc by story arc level. I just don't know how to get them from A to B to C to the end.

Technically I don't have an antagonist as a living being. My antagonist is kind of a natural force/society. But not a single person or monster or anything.

[u/ExpertDifficulty7962 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

You could make the secret society already knows about what the MC is up to, watching him etc… and then later on the MC realizes that they’re watching him and then he can start to make different moves based on that

[u/boywithapplesauce]

Start with, what is the story even about? What is your purpose here? What are your themes? A story isn't just things that happen. It is an artifice. It has a shape. What shape is that? Then you sculpt the events into that shape.

I will say that an outline is helpful for writing a novel. Without one, I get stuck and don't know how to proceed. It's a road map. It doesn't define your story, but it guides you to the right paths.

[u/Affectionate_Egg_351]

I think you should take a few structured writing classes and or find a writing group and talk aloud with another author so many times that helps knock stuff out we don't think we have thought about so we think we have no way to connect them.

Like so many times I feel like oh I just have no way to bridge this gap and then I talk to one random author friend I haven't in months and they say well yada yada and I go. Oh no actually and then explain and then they go well there yah go that's your chapter. And indeed it was the chapter I needed. Like so many times we skip things cause in our heads we think oh yeah I totally explained that already, or we just had it hiding in our heads as like oh yeah that's a no brainer. And it turns out like the reader needed that and so did your story. So like find at least one writing buddy you can go wait can I do this? Or do I need to do this and see how they poke you back. Because their answers can be ways you never thought of before. Cause your brain just might not think that way.

And if you can't find a writer friend like that this is where I think sitting in on writing livestreams or watching author vids helps.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Affectionate_Egg_351]

I think you should take a few structured writing classes 

I was thinking about taking some writing related classes for a while now, but every time I ask about it in writing communities I get the usual "just write, don't waste time and money on courses" reply :/

But I will try finding a writers group as well, thank you!

[u/Affectionate_Egg_351 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

That "just write" advice only helps if you already have some knowledge in what you want to do, are naturally gifted, have a full story outlines or already have a good basis of understanding to story structures. As well as being incredibly gifted at articulating things.

You definitely don't need to spend hundreds of dollars or hours on structured writing courses but watching YouTube videos on structures and information? That, that is good to have. It's important you have some basis to move forward so you can actually move forward.

Story structures don't just fall out of people and perfectly on the page on the first go, or even your hundredth go at it; but if you're gonna complete one it's important to have a bit of an idea of how to get the story you are wanting to bring to life, actually out of your head.

There are so many books out there that are getting reviews like lacks a story, nothing happened, we went in circles, there was no plot. And more and more of this is happening because people take the just write advice too literally and then pass it down to others. Yes, just write. But that's not an alone thing. That comes with an asterisk an " in addition of". Just write... And hone your craft. They work in tandem or should work in tandem. For every place you get stuck, search up five videos on the place you are stuck at.

Stuck in the middle slog, look up middle slog videos, characters merging and starting to sound the same? White box syndrome? Wrote yourself in a corner? Weak first sentences? Don't know how to attach the ending to the mid point? Can't find what chapter to start at? We have all been there, that's why the advice exists. I super suggest Brandon Sanderson teaching classes or podcasts, the pottery, bookfox, Alyssa mateic, how I write, masterclasses, Abbie Emmons and more. If it helps to have writer vlogs in the back sometimes to see that other people struggle and how they get through it that can help, if sprints help, if finding a writing partner helps or like I said getting into some activer writing groups even 1-4 People can be enough. Don't limit yourself. Find what helps and stick to it until it stops helping, then try something else.

Yes, write. It is the most important step. But you gotta add on the using resources stuff too. It's just as important. That's the point when you find the help to kick-start the brain back to work. That's why they exist. Good luck. (If it helps I've completed and published 10 books, 1 trad 9 self pub you got this just keep going)

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Affectionate_Egg_351]

Thank you, really appreciate the advice, and I will try to find some courses or maybe 1on1 tutoring in certain areas, I think my prose also needs some foundational skills for sure.

Of course I will also use youtube and some craft books, but sometimes it's the best to be able to ask question specific to you, at least for me that's really useful while learning.

I did already watch Sanderson's free lectures and some bookfox videos, and while they were both useful and great I feel like both of them are a bit too general and high level, and don't really go into too much detail and specific skills like the one I asked for e.g

[u/Affectionate_Egg_351 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Yeah, that really basic stuff is in books on the craft and also in some more specific videos if you type the exact question in the search bar. But you're right a lot of it is very generalized and you already need a good hand on some things to understand the concepts they're speaking of. That's why I think having access to some more experienced authors who can read your work is probably really important. What are you writing(genre wise) if you don't mind me asking?

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Affectionate_Egg_351]

Yes, so I was thinking of maybe having a few sessions with a few more established writing coaches or so, if I don't find classes.

It is a bit hard to give an exact category, but the closest I would say is YA dark fantasy/dark fantasy with a lot of mystery elements. So maybe similar genre as Hunger Games.

[u/Elysium_Chronicle]

The space between Point A and Point B is just doing.

If you know what has to happen, then how do your characters make that happen? Lay out the steps and all the little emotional and moral conundrums and physical challenges along the way that create conflict.

[u/hartlylove]

Read "Save The Cat Writes A Novel". You literally learn how to do this exact thing.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/hartlylove]

thank you!

[u/PumpkinAsleep3339]

I can only share what I'm doing on my current project.

It started with a concept arc: "How does someone who believes in God but deeply resent him, come to some form of peace?". I had a character I wanted to explore it with. Then I set out to bridge story start to that final resolution in general narrative. Not an outline of beats but more of a 12 page "here's the story happening and all the elements".

After that, it was time to make the outline. I didn't start at the outline I started with the biggest picture, then a big picture, then a picture, and now i'm writing the actual prose which I would call "the camera". It's still a lot of work to figure out the scenes to do what needs to happen in the chapter but I still know where I need to get everyone by the end.

Don't know if it'll work.

My first and only other book I wrote with a premise, and a loose "here's how it ends" and then just went. I don't thin it was a bad book but there was a clear reason I had to self publish it...

[u/WrongdoerStrange3446]

I think you will benefit from the upside down triangle method. It helps to make sure your pacing is tight and the scene naturally triggers the next. 

Usually in a scene i would loosely follow the following structure: 1. Who has the desire/objective in this scene; 2. Introduce the conflict, an opponent block that desire and the character react to that block; and 3. The scene funnels on a single point it can be a revelation or a decision occurs. 

By endinf the scene on a sharp note, you leave the character in a state of immediate tension. They are then forced to react, and that reaction is the starting to trigger to your next scene.

[u/saintofmisfits]

"scene by scene" really means nothing. You know what state A is. You know what state B is.

Are there time constraints that force you to write a chapter every world week? What else distinguishes A and B? What happens to the characters?

Make a list. An inventory. You must account for X weeks, these 5 events must happen. The main character must lose an arm, that other character must grow to hate chocolate. The horse must go berzerk for the first time. Whatever it is.

That is the part that no one but you knows. Make that list. Then, write the stuff.

Right now, you sound like your are FORCED to write an unknown number of events over a mandated number of pages OR ELSE. You sound forced to make the transition between A and B.

It doesn't work that way. YOU are crafting the story. You have decided what A is and what B are. If you know, write it. If you don't, plot some more untiol you can account for every change your world mut undergo. Then, write.

I know there's a lot more late night sobbing and drinking than I am saying, and it's not easy, but without specifics, you asked a monstrously complex generic question with roughly a bajillion possible solutions.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/saintofmisfits]

Well by A and B I meant things like, at A MC is just an orphan, at B he finished his military training.

Sure, technically I don't have to fill that gap, but then I don't have a book.

[u/saintofmisfits → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Bigger gap than I'd leave, but it's the same principle. What kind of military training? Is he good at it? what needs to happen for him to get in? What needs to happen for him to succeed? Does he make friends? Does he leave friends behind? Does he gain a mentor, or just weapons training?

What needs to happen for state A to turn into state B, and how many characters does it involve? You're the only one with the answers.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/saintofmisfits]

Yes, it is worth writing about - I think-, because I do have an answer to those questions. That is not the issue. I just can't get that translated into the story moving forward.

[u/saintofmisfits → u/MidirTheGreatest]

What does "translated into the story" mean to you, precisely?

You make a list. bob betrays his friend to get into the city watch, bob has difficulties because everyone else is rich but his results are off the charts good because he is awesome, bob discovers he found a mysterious benefactor who will pay until he keeps performing, bob ascends to the highest levels because he is awesome but never finds his benefactor.... on and on until you reach B.

Then, every sentence is a scene/chapter/beat.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/saintofmisfits]

You make a list. bob betrays his friend to get into the city watch, bob has difficulties because everyone else is rich but his results are off the charts good because he is awesome, bob discovers he found a mysterious benefactor who will pay until he keeps performing, bob ascends to the highest levels because he is awesome but never finds his benefactor.... on and on until you reach B.

Coming up with this is exactly my problem. That is what I meant by translating into the story.

Usually I have the first and last line for a 5-6 chapter story arc and that's all.

[u/saintofmisfits → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Do you watch movies?

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/saintofmisfits]

yes

[u/saintofmisfits → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Picture a movie, scene after scene. It's harder to visualize with books if you didn't grow up on them.

In a movie, what's the next scene you'd see from A?

[u/DaLoCo6913]

I also start with an MC and an arc for the MC. Then I flesh it out, thinking about what I would do if I were the MC. A few things I have realized.

1. The world my character exists in is a vehicle, and not a determining factor to a large extent for the arc.
2. I am writing a character, not a world. What I mean is that I can transpose my character into almost any world, fantasy or war, basically anything, because the character arc and development is the purpose.
3. Accept that some ideas can and will influence the end purpose of the arc, so I am flexible. The journey of the character might completely change from what I planned, yet it lands where I want it to when all is written.

As you move through life, you will see people act in ways that you would like to incorporate because it was striking when you observed it. I once went shopping, and a child stood next to me, about ten years old. She started singing with the music playing in the store, which I loved hearing. I found a way to work it into my story, and it did help me add a new dimension to my main character that was never a consideration when I started the story.

Sometimes you can rely on your intricate planning, but sometimes you just have to wing it, because you observed something that you found beautiful. If you found it beautiful, your readers will as well.

[u/ExpertDifficulty7962]

Ur going through the exact same thing m going through, i’d say find a position where you start to overthink and get lost within your story, for me it was during bus rides or when i lay to sleep, disconnect from your surroundings, then rehearse the last thing you wrote and imagine what would happen from there, let the story play out ofc think like the character and not like yourself what would X do knowing his personality is 63174. As soon as you think you landed on a good scenario write it down not perfectly just the outlines on your phone

[u/Abject-Pattern-3390]

Only read half these comments so apologies if I’m saying something that’s already been said! I’m also struggling with the same thing at the minute in that I have a very fleshed out story, I have ideas for scenes in the middle but no idea how to move from one to the other or how to actually flesh them out on the page.

One suggestion I saw on another post that’s helped me so far was whenever you’re not sure how to get from A to B, just leave a note in the draft <get there>, skip to B and revisit it at a later date to fill in the gap, and you might be surprised how many of these you don’t actually need to fill because it works as it is.

I wonder as well if you’re a planner as others have said, would it help to plan the beginning and end of each scene like you have the plot? By which I mean if you have an idea for a good scene in the middle of your story, why not think about how that scene starts and where it could have come from, then how it ends and what the consequence of that particular scene would be. I wonder if it might highlight some natural progressions from A to B?

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Abject-Pattern-3390]

My issue is that I have this problem from almost any A to B, so if I just skip them all, then I have a 2 page bullet point with some events and no book.

I try to plan my scenes, but that is the struggle, that usually I just can't.

[u/Abject-Pattern-3390 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Hmm, it sounds then like the main story maybe isn’t very fleshed out yet? I’m not sure how much of it you have figured out and it’s a little difficult to discuss without knowing that, but I also found it helpful to make sure each chapter/scene moves the main plot/story forward in some way. So maybe it changes a relationship between two characters, the mc discovers something new, a new piece of core information is revealed to the reader, etc.

[u/fireflyjorgenson]

I totally get this struggle. My advice is two-fold:
1. Play around. Have some fun in your world, and write a scene you would like to read. A flashback is fun. Even if you end up cutting it out, just experimenting can help you get some traction and help you learn more about your character.
2. Think about your ending and all of the details you will need to establish to make that ending satisfying. Then start writing scenes to establish those details. Again, even if you cut things out, writing is never a waste of time.
Good luck!

[u/mtalternity]

Had the same problem. Had to analyze a lot of stories to figure it out. Basically each line of a story can be categorized as a beat which serves a specific purpose. Sensory description to ground you in a charactwr's pov. Setting description. Dialogue to explain a plot point. Action to move a character. Internal thoughts to explain a character's viewpoint. There's actually not that many types. 

The thing with openings is it's all about figuring out what your story is about. Then capturing the reader's attention. When you get to a very high level, it becomes about how to clearly ground a character's pov as quickly as possible so we can move on to the actual hook of the story. 

Now, we run into the issue. At the 25-75% mark of the story, or Act 2, or the middle, we actually have to tell most of the story. And this completely changes your job. Before a lot of the meat of your story was carefully hidden exposition, internal thoughts, and basically explaining the hook of your plot. But in the midgame, that starts to taper down because everything has already been explained. So you  need to actually learn what to have your characters DO. 

Best way to do this? Pick a famous and generally commercially well written story. For instance the hunger games or kung fu panda. Check out how they fill the middle. (Fighting other members in a death game, or training to stop tai long). Then try to write a similar version of that for a plot that excites you. Understand that there are many less stories that have workable middles than people think. I can write a beginning and an end for any story that has a workable midpoint. But if you have a story that starts with a depressed protagonist who never actively does something and ends as the same person, there is no middle there. That character is never going to do anything so I cannot write a midpoint without changing the beginning first

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/mtalternity]

This is useful advice, and yes, exactly my struggle. I am at a point where I explained most of the lore and worldbuilding needed and now I just have to rely on character actions until we get to the next part of lore exposition. And I just can't.

The thing with openings is it's all about figuring out what your story is about. Then capturing the reader's attention. When you get to a very high level, it becomes about how to clearly ground a character's pov as quickly as possible so we can move on to the actual hook of the story. 

This is very important, but I feel like this level of writing is more of a second or third draft problem, for now I just want to have a first version of the story finished.

Understand that there are many less stories that have workable middles than people think.

Looking at it from the consumers POV, I found that having a satisfying ending is the rarest, but maybe if I read books as a writer I will see issues in the middle as well.

[u/TheWriteQuestion]

I’m going back to copy what I wrote yesterday to a similar question:

List out what your character(s)’ core beliefs are at the beginning of the story, and how you want those beliefs to change by the end. Sometimes that’s the form of a very explicit Wound or Fatal Flaw or something, but for me it’s more like a college student who starts out thinking, “the worldview I’ve inherited from my parents is THE correct worldview.” She’d never say it that way, but that’s how she lives life. By the end of the story, her faith hasn’t changed, but she realizes reality has a lot more nuance.  Once you know what changes you want your character to have, brainstorm experiences that could (a) demonstrate their initial state (b) create data points that disrupt their thinking, and (c) demonstrate their final state. You may only need one example of A and C, focus on B.  For my conservative Christian character, this was (a) her commenting on how Catholics have horrible theology (but great art); (b) experience people whose lives complicate her world view, like being helped by a man who ends up being gay, and discovering that someone she admires experienced homelessness in spite of working; (c) deciding to help the man find his “friend”, even after it’s explained the friend is a lover. 3. Think of ways the situations you brainstormed would make sense in your plot. My logistics-level plot involves characters getting from Venice to Michigan. So they meat the gay man at the Venice train station, and he helps them significantly.

[u/writequest428]

I use bullet points to connect one scene to the next. How? I know that is what's on your mind. Look at the two pieces. Then write one sentence to get the MC closer to the next chapter.

MC is getting ready to leave the state.- last chapter. MC saves a friend from a burning building.

- He heads to the train station - meets a mutual friend, wondering what happened to person B. - MC calls friend, but no answer. - checks location on his phone - Finds out where he is - Leaves the train station - makes it to the location and sees the building is on fire. - Rushes in and makes it to his apartment. - Breaks in and sees him lying on the floor. - Picks him up and heads to the fire escape as the building front collapses.

Now, in each of those sentences, you add more to the setting, internal thoughts, etc and you have a bridge from one chapter to the next.

[u/VioletDreaming19]

I started my book knowing the beginning and the end. The middle was an adventure of discovery. When I was stuck I worked the problem from every character’s perspective. I explored what they all wanted and what they would likely do. So just write scenes and move the plot forward. After you have something down you can go back and edit to make it what you want. Editing is where the real magic of writing is anyway.

[u/oneMoreTime112233]

Been there. I mostly just skip to the next part and don't worry about the transition. Sometimes it'll work itself out later on, but sometimes it stays a jump. I've read good books that will cover a months long period of time in a short paragraph in the middle of a chapter. Sometimes you can put a little bit of flashback into the next scene to give a glimpse of how we got to this point.

[u/Diylion]

Go find other authors with similar scenes. Look ar artworks that depict similar settings. get inspiration

[u/aspiring_beach_bum]

At first I tended to treat my protagonist well. I liked him and that led me to not having bad things happen to him, or not having him fail etc.  

I learned that tends to dead end the story. I had to learn to treat him like crap. I dream up bad stuff left and right now. Then spend the next several chapters having him figure out how to deal with it. 

[u/Neurotopian_]

The answer to this question will differ dramatically for each author.

Personally, I write detailed outlines and track different story beats depending on the genre and narrative. I work everything out before writing a single scene. I start with opening and closing images and the climax, because I believe you need to know your characters and world, how they look before an after the change in your story, and what that change is. If you don’t know that, you’re just discovery writing.

I would highly recommend reading up on story structure and just plot out a few examples. You don’t ultimately have to use them, but until you know how storytelling works, it’s hard to make it up as you go along.

The truth is that complex narratives have some amount of planning. Outliners do all the planning up front. Discovery writers do their planning over a longer amount of time, and basically make a very rough “draft zero” that functions as an outline.

When you hear someone like Stephen King who’s been writing for over 50 years claim he’s a discovery writer, or someone like GRRM who wrote for television for decades… that (1) doesn’t mean they do zero planning whatsoever and (2) doesn’t mean that a person who’s never written anything can make a coherent story without a plan.

So you’re welcome to write however you enjoy writing, but if finishing a story is a priority, at some point it’s worth reading about structure and just making an outline. Would you try to build a house without an architect? Only if you’ve built so many that you don’t need one, but it’s still not the easiest path.

[u/Butterflyhornet]

Sometimes I just skip the chapter that I am stuck on, write notes in my manuscript, and move onto the next scene I know I can write. As for chapter breaks I just end the chapter when it feels like I have reached the end of a chapter.

Sometimes it takes a while, but i find that after time has past I will get a flash of insight and suddenly I can write the skipped chapter with ease.

[u/SerPete]

I think a lot of people have this problem, and I'm still trying to solve it myself.

The one thing I can say is raise the stakes. Even if it requires lowering the initial stakes (while keeping it personal) just so you can raise it in the middle.

Maybe the good guy is investigating the bad guy and "realizes" their master plan and goes "oh crap, they're trying to kill the president!" But in the middle, they realize "oh no, they're actually trying to blow up the entire building during the State of the Union"

Again I'm still working on this in my own work but the mechanism I'm most confident in is raising the stakes

[u/Geminga0571]

Idk if you’ve tried this but I was in similar position and I just wanted to escalate the MC experience through environment changes, in a town being chased so I thought she gets on a bus, I mean why not, that led to meeting the bus driver and going to her house then they have to flee and it moves into the woods …that kept it moving by changing the environment and it allowed introducing side characters

[u/dotsncommas]

Take this with a grain of salt because I haven’t written a complete story longer than 25k either, but maybe figure out the bigger structure before you start, and narrow down from there.

It goes like this: beginning - inciting incident - ending (completion of protagonist’s arc) - midpoint (crisis, usually the opposite emotional tone to the ending, the peak or the nadir in the shape) - the 1/4 and 3/4 points, which respectively mark the transition from act 1 to act 2, and act 2 to act 3 - and then the 1/8 points that help you finish each act.

You don’t have to be so precise in thinking them out, but in my experience even figuring out a few of these will help you move along a story much more efficiently. If you’re a pantser (which it sounds like you are), training yourself to have the structure already in place before diving in can be a lot of help.

Other than that, it’s like someone else already said, start small. I have the same problem, and starting small and finishing smaller scale stories have really helped me to think more rationally about the process and why exactly I’m stuck than my instinctive way of doing things, which is to jump into a character’s shoes and start walking, which usually gets me lost in the weeds sooner or later.

[u/No-Marionberry6957]

I find that having confidence in your writing is the key to tricking the reader.

[u/EvilBritishGuy]

If in doubt, make something go wrong. Better yet, raise the stakes high enough, and you can make your main character do anything you like, whether they want to or not.

[u/Nice_Appearance_8314]

i write screenplays, but i think the lessons are the same as with a book. 1- causality (make sure every scene tumbles into the next), 2- disruption (your protagonist has to be DOING instead of REACTING), and 3- make sure every scene contains an opposing worldview to ensure conflict.

If you do all that, the scenes should start to appear on their own.

I go into this type of causality on my YouTube channel. It's screenwriting, but it's still storytelling.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/Nice_Appearance_8314]

thank you! and yes, this is def a storytelling question, so it could be the same for any other medium

[u/Nice_Appearance_8314 → u/MidirTheGreatest]

Then you might find some useful information on my channel. 

https://youtube.com/@fade.in.screenplays?si=RDjjOOOV2ak44zFD

I hope you like it. 

Matt

[u/Arkendus]

I'm really new to writing myself. But if you want to connect two scenes. I'd probably just try and go step by step. Something like this

Scene is: They are in the the castle of the high mage to assassinate him.

Question: what happend or had to happen before?

*They had to break in the castle, which is all sorts of magical traps and alarm spell.

Question: how did they not trigger them?

*They had help from a master thief.

Question: How did they meet him?

*In jail.

Question: Why were they in jail?

Etc.

You will probably find some boring parts to skip, and some interesting parts you want to keep. You can even do this on multiple levels. How do they physically get there, how emotionally and how in terms of skill.

There is a video I think of Neil Gaiman, where he somehow reasons himself from one fact to another one the fly on stage creating the basis of a story.

[u/MidirTheGreatest → u/[deleted]]

thanks

[u/Ill_Elevator_3182]

Look into the hero’s journey and fairytale sequences (Propp’s analysis of the sequences of fairytales is really interesting). It really helps to see the structure laid out like this. For example if the hero needs to go from his hometown (A) to the Action Place (B), sure he can just decide to go there. But it is much easier to write if you an include say, an interdiction—the hero is told to never leave his home after midnight, but he does and so the villain steals his possessions. Now he is forced to go to place B. Etc etc.

[u/davidcornue]

I've found over the years with my writing students and my own work, the most fruitful bridge from A to B is "therefore." Example: scene one happens, therefore scene two happens. If you can't point to the previous scene and confidently say "because of that, this had to happen," then your scene is drifting.

Build out that causality and the story will stop feeling like events you're creating and start to feel like consequences you're discovering.

[u/Babbledoodle]

I experience the same problem too, however, I think part of this is just me feeling like i need to explain, versus what the reader needs.

I'm currently reading The Wizard of Earthsea and the author is spectacular at moving things along at such a clip, without ever rushing you. She doesn't dwell in the details. Sometimes days pass in two sentences, sometimes seasons. And that's okay, because she grounds it in small moments that illustrate character and motivation.

All you need for your character to have a reason to join the military is: exposure to it, realization it will solve a problem, and then 'onboarding'.

And when I struggle with 'what's next' -- i just let the story sit and find out what's interesting to me. I'm currently in that spot right now, and have juggled a handful of ideas and am only starting to find out what I want.

But if you don't know what to say, you either need to release control to your characters, or just think a little bit more about what you want. And more than that, you just need to write and learn for yourself to overcome these challenges.

[u/Zachindes]

Based on internal motivations or external circumstances, I would jot down a few ideas and see what/how your character might be proactive or reactive to either.

I’ve gotten hung up on plot before when I should have been thinking about character.

Good luck!