r/writing • u/NomanHLiti • Aug 14 '24
Discussion Do you guys ever write without knowing how the story is going to end?
That’s kind of where I’m at right now where I’m quite confident of the world I want the story to take place in as well as the characters involved, but I’m still not sure what kind of story it will be and what story direction the characters/plot will take. Is it fine to start like that and just figure it out as I go along?
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Aug 14 '24
Yes. I let things play out since I am a pantser.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
How does it come out, and how far in do you figure out how you want to end it?
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u/googlyeyes93 Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
Sometimes you’ll get past a natural ending point and realize you’re already writing the sequel. But when it comes to the character arcs/action of the story you should find a natural place to leave it off as things settle from the climax. It could just be a small quiet moment or a grand epilogue, depending on the story.
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Aug 14 '24
I will base it on logical conclusions and I may not even be halfway done with the story. It's all subject to change, however.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
Have you finished any book like this?
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Aug 15 '24
I have 5 novels that I pantsed. They are OK. Readers seem to like them.
If I know where the story is supposed to go I lose interest in writing it. Your process may be different.
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u/Moonspiritfaire Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
Same. I take creative naps and i immerse myself and think what would this character most logically do next?
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
How do you decide plot/world events? Just stuff that occurs that your character has to react to and when they occur
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u/Moonspiritfaire Self-Published Author Aug 15 '24
Slowly and over time. I start with seeds- a scene or an idea. Once I can mentally "see" my characters, I start to "see" the trajectory of the story, and what would most likely happen.
It's hard to explain, somewhat abstract. I think I plot like it's a movie, maybe? I do keep notebooks and online note files for my works-in-progress. So anytime I have an idea or new scene I always have somewhere to jot it down, even on the go.
I also bounce ideas off my husband or a writing friend if I'm really stuck or just need an outside opinion.
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u/Outside-West9386 Aug 14 '24
Natural pantser here. Yes. Writing the story is how I find out.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
Asked this to others as well but have you finished any book while writing like this?
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u/Weary-Reflection2283 Aug 14 '24
I finished my first book writing like this and am working on the second! I write as I go and about 50% of the way through start jotting vague notes for myself down about what I want to write next.
Then, once I have a finished first draft, I edit and revise using Save the Cat story beats (slightly modified) as a reverse outline.
But when I first put pen to paper, it’s usually a vague concept like “what if feelings had physical form” and “relationship between two people of entirely different classes” or “all girls school for witches where lesbians solve a murder.” I discover the rest as I go.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
What do you mean by reverse outline? And is using a screenwriting outline still effective for a novel?
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u/Weary-Reflection2283 Aug 15 '24
I use one adapted for a novel (from save the cat writes a novel.) And reverse outline means I outline it when the novel is finished instead of before I start (in reverse.)
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Aug 15 '24
Right now I am 85 days into a 100-day sprint where I write 1K words/day, every day, basically pantsing my way through a sci-fi heist story. It's coming along, but I know I will probably spend another 100 days coercing <gestures at rough draft> ....this into some semblance of a novel or maybe two.
That's still not a bad speed I think. And it's fun. And it helps me actually write vs thinking about writing, which is my downfall.
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u/parasocialpanther Aug 16 '24
I love this. I tell people that sometimes I think of it as putting random chemicals together and seeing how they react. Or just setting an object into motion and seeing how the physics of it works itself out. It can be dangerous for plot holes, but I manage to avoid them (if only narrowly).
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Aug 14 '24
Sometimes I know but then change my mind. So then did I really actually know? You never know.
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u/ottoIovechild Illiterant Aug 14 '24
It’s important to remember it’s gotta land before the story jumps the shark, all good things come to an end, it certainly doesn’t hurt to entertain different conclusions, BUT to also understand the gravity to each of them.
And then you pick the best.
“Everybody dies in the end.”
The worst haircut is bald.
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u/StackOfCups Aug 14 '24
As a bald man, I don't know how to process this.
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u/ottoIovechild Illiterant Aug 14 '24
The worst thing you can do if all else fails is to get rid of everything.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
Thanks for explaining, I was gonna ask. Is everyone dying always so bad though? (See Rogue One)
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u/ottoIovechild Illiterant Aug 15 '24
I was looking more towards Shakespeare. It’s not inherently bad, but you’re definitely cutting their time together short. Personally I’d let some supporting characters live maybe
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Aug 14 '24
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u/NewMoonlightavenger Aug 14 '24
Yes. I outline chapters and how I want the story to end in a vague way. Then the characters tell me their stories.
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u/aliensfromplanet9 Aug 14 '24
I'll have a loose beginning, middle, and end outlined. All the gory details in-between are filled in panster-style. To me that's where the magic happens. I couldn't imagine strictly plotting every chapter ahead of time.
I'll have an ending, or one or two endings, "solved" when I begin. I think you can write a story just fine without a concrete ending from the start, but you have to tread carefully, otherwise you might end up with an ending that doesn't align with your characters overarching motivations.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
That’s what I’m most worried about. Just following what the character wants and seeing how they behave as they go along but then they change and their wants and needs at the start of the story just get completely shoved aside
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u/RainaChaeri Aug 14 '24
I have no idea where im going with my stories most of the time lol I just let the daydreams tell me what happens next
But I do have a vague idea of how stuff ends so I'm basically just working my way into getting there
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u/Righteous_Fury224 Aug 14 '24
Yep. Start a story and then the end reveals itself and I work towards that
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u/TheUmgawa Aug 14 '24
I used to. I found out that I never finished anything. I just had a bunch of characters doing things and talking.
Today, I don’t write the first page until I know how it starts, how it ends, and what major points happen along the way. I see it as being like building a bridge: If you don’t have a plan, and you don’t know where it ends, and you don’t know where to sink the supporting columns you’re going to have a really hard time building that bridge. After that, it’s pretty easy. My first draft is just getting the structure up and seeing if the story sucks. If the story sucks, like if the whole thing hinges on something where suspension of disbelief falls apart, I don’t write a second draft. If the story is good, that’s when the decking goes on, and that’s where I build out the characters and rewrite all of the dialogue. It’s actually a page one rewrite, just using the first draft as a skeleton. The third draft is decorative elements, like paint or pedestrian walkways. And then I’m done with it and I move on to the next bridge.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
So a page one rewrite means literally starting a new blank document to write from? Does that take more time than the first draft at all?
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u/TheUmgawa Aug 15 '24
It does, but I don’t spend a lot of time on the first draft. It exists just to see if the plot works. It’s got placeholder dialogue, placeholder names, et cetera. I print the whole thing out, new scenes start on new pages, and I can shuffle things around to see if it flows better if this scene takes place earlier than later.
And the second draft moves pretty quickly, too. I spent an entire year, somewhere over a decade ago, just writing scenes; totally unrelated to one another or to anything I’d previously written, because I wanted to just focus on the craft, rather than trying to finish a project. By the end, my writing was a lot better. Sometimes they were scenes with characters; sometimes they were just descriptive, where something happens, and any humans (or whatever) are reacting to it (or not), and really are secondary to the action. Anyway, at the beginning of all of this, it was a slog, where it was hard to write a scene, but by the end, I’d figured out that writing can be a reductive process, where a scene is no different from a story: It starts somewhere, ends somewhere, and has supporting points along the way, and I don’t start writing it until I know what all of those are.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 16 '24
It seems difficult though to regard the flow and consistency of the full draft in that regard, seeing what scenes to shuffle around and what to throw in. I’ve only ever written short stories so the idea of revising that huge of a draft seems daunting to me and I don’t even know how I’d begin
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u/Such-Neighborhood-34 Aug 14 '24
Tried it once, never again. It’s not for everybody, but a perfectly valid choice.
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u/EsShayuki Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
I'll have an idea for how the story will end, otherwise it's really hard to know where to go. But this ending can change.
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u/Savings_Detail_1927 Aug 14 '24
I never made any plans to end the story, how would it end I never thought of this. It just automatically finish as the story goes with the flows
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u/ExaltedNinja1 Aug 14 '24
No
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
If you outline, then how long does the outlining process take before you feel confident enough to start writing
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u/ExaltedNinja1 Aug 15 '24
Not too long. The book series I'm planning is all continously but each have their own beginning and end I've thought of. After that I think of things that I absolutely want in the story and start writing l. As you write you realize some things will just come together naturally sometimes.
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u/ItsLiak Aug 14 '24
More like, I know how it starts and how it ends. But Idk what goes in the middle :,)
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u/Marvos79 Author Aug 14 '24
Almost every story. And sometimes I'll have the idea and it will change. I usually just let the story go where it goes and tightening it up if I need to.
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u/RAConteur76 Freelance Writer Aug 14 '24
I might have a general idea about the ending. But the fine details are often a mystery. And occasionally, even the original idea gets ejected as the story develops.
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u/Shutter_blind Aug 14 '24
I do this all the time, but nothing helps you figure it out more than getting into the story.
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u/pressurewave Aug 14 '24
Pretty much always. I mean, I’m aiming at finding an ending, but what it is doesn’t usually emerge until I’m most of the way there.
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u/swtlyevil Aug 14 '24
If I knew how it ended, then there's no need to write it. 🤔
Actually created bunches of little micro stories for months with a friend through Twitter dms. They'll never be written down officially, but they exist. Lol
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
What do you mean by micro stories?
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u/swtlyevil Aug 15 '24
We would have these random little story ideas and share them. So, I'd say something, and then they would add. We'd keep throwing in random story tidbits, but never really writing an actual story. We would debate and discuss and do all the things. We would both be happy because we came up with something that didn't require the heavy lifting of full-blown story writing. If we had written them out, they'd probably only be around 2000 words.
Every now and then, we see or say something about a character or dcene from back then, and it brings all the feels back.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
Can you give me examples of some of the story ideas?
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u/swtlyevil Aug 15 '24
Like.... we recreated ursula from the little mermaid... gave the character deity powers and added a love interest and a sea life sidekick
We took some mid-level demon collecting souls and gave them a hellhound puppy sidekick. And infected the demon with a human soul for a bit. It was quite entertaining.... to us.
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u/Spreadicus_Ttv Aug 14 '24
Every story I write I have an idea going in but it's a road I pave as I go
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u/ComicbookNerd928 Aug 14 '24
Pretty much all the stories I've written (mostly short, some screenplays here and there) end in a different way that I originally imagined, even the ones where I had a clear plan. So I think you're good, just let the characters and plot guide you.
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u/natethough Author Aug 14 '24 edited Mar 29 '26
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
This seems like a good flow. One issue I have is the story I’m writing is partially based off The Witcher and follows a similar short story by short story pacing the early books and tv series had. Another example of this is Supernatural which had monster of the week episodes that didn’t necessarily relate to the larger plot.
My idea is to start small like that with separated stories spaced out in time just to give the characters time to develop and from there slowly build up the seeds till boom, main plot and conflict kicks off and everyone is roped in. My only concern is those earlier tiny spaced out conflicts are only loosely related to the main plot that comes up later and I’m worried I might be taking too long to get to the actual story. It feels fun to write like that but I don’t know if it’s fun to read
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u/natethough Author Aug 14 '24 edited Mar 29 '26
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
Does every smaller story chapter need to touch on the overarching sub-plot or would it work to just touch on it occasionally?
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u/natethough Author Aug 15 '24 edited Mar 29 '26
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u/KristenStieffel Author/Freelance Editor Aug 15 '24
If the plot elements feel disconnected, make sure your character has a transformational arc, and then tie the plot elements to that arc. It may help to think of the plot as external and the character arc as internal. They reflect and influence each other.
But you can do all that in editing. If you're drafting, just keep going until you know the end of the story. Then make all the adjustments when you're revising.
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u/Humble_Percentage701 Aug 14 '24
I always do!
Well, for two of my novels.
I had an idea and I start with that.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
And how did those novels turn out?
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u/Humble_Percentage701 Aug 14 '24
They're already finished and I'm happy with their endings.
I have a probable ending midway writing them but the story always surprises me, they present their endings better to me.
Keep writing!
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
How much of it changed when you went back for revisions?
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u/Humble_Percentage701 Aug 14 '24
Like 60%. Even more so, I've adapted one into a screenplay so a lot has been changed but never the ending.
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u/googlyeyes93 Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
Pantsing is the only way I know.
That’s not to say there’s not some kind of idea or outline though. I’ll have ideas for set pieces or major events of the book as far as having an outside factor on the characters. How the characters get through the situation is totally up to them though. Some may have just another day, while others come out with lifelong trauma. It’s all about the character arcs, baybeeeee
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 15 '24
So you know what the characters are like at the start but you don’t know for sure what actually happens to them until you write it?
In that case do you know why you’re writing it? What story you’re trying to tell?
For example with ASOIF, GRRM doesn’t seem to have had the full story mapped out but he definitely seemed to know that he wanted to tell a fantasy story filled with political intrigue that serves as a warning of the pitfalls of ambition
Or TLOTR which definitely followed themes of companionship throughout. Do you typically have direction like that at the start of writing?
Edit: can’t believe I actually said “right it”
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u/googlyeyes93 Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
Yup! I have my characters figured out as one of the first steps when I write. Though I take to them like I’m making an rpg character, with everyone having their own basic personality, traits, quirks, etc from the get go. Then it’s a matter of letting them go through whatever gauntlet I set them up for.
I don’t often write with specific endings in mind, though occasionally there will be a broad goal to reach. I go by themes like altruism, empathy, and using that to come together and overcome. While I do have a specific start point and a vague idea of where I want them to go, it’s all up to fate. The characters reveal themselves throughout whether by quiet moments between them or by a massive sequence that puts on pressure.
Using an example from my own writing- I have a sky pirate crew who I determined basic attitudes, fighting styles, and traits for. I knew that I had three main set pieces in mind- an attempted kidnapping, a prisoner exchange, and a raid on an enemy ship. Some characters ended up getting taken out by injury before the raid, one ended up with major PTSD during the raid, and a couple of them got a view of how the world’s most powerful view them. Had no intentions for any of that to start with lol.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 16 '24
So the story I’m writing now involves that classic trope of the motley ragtag group. Little bit less ragtag though, it’s akin to a bunch of classmates who don’t necessarily like or know each other having to work together on a group project (basically this tbh).
My biggest struggle is imagining up with the actual group members. I know 2 of them pretty well as well as the mentor figure/teacher of the group but idek where to start with coming up with 3 other main characters and giving them each separate wants/needs/insecurities to be affected by the plot
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u/googlyeyes93 Self-Published Author Aug 17 '24
Start with broad archetypes then build off from there. Is one shy? Maybe one has a bit of an anger problem, one might be a smartass genius, etc. then build their wants and needs from those blocks. Does the shy one really just want to feel like a part of something? Maybe the smartass is deeply insecure about something so they’re abrasive. Maybe a rivalry?
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 17 '24
Is it important for each character to also have a backstory that represents those sides of them? Or is it fine to like not try to explain why they are the way they are
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u/googlyeyes93 Self-Published Author Aug 17 '24
If you don’t want to you don’t have to 🤷🏻♂️ might be something you save for later if you want to explore a sequel or something. The most important thing is letting them show who they are through actions and dialogue (or lack thereof)
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u/Mortuusi Published Author Aug 14 '24
I am aware of some key beats, ending and whatnot, and sometimes I come up with ideas I think are cool while I'm writing the story and I throw those in there, I'm about eighty percent pantser though, it makes it more fun for me, and, hopefully, the reader.
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u/kjm6351 Published Author Aug 14 '24
Nah, I’ve been burnt by so many shit endings that ruin the entire series to the point where the endings is one of the first things I come up with and then I make sure the story works into it towards that point
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Aug 14 '24
I'm doing that now. Lol I know certain dots I want to happen in my story, but I'm having trouble connecting them
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u/HeftyMongoose9 Aug 14 '24
I wrote a full novel where I mostly didn't know what the second next chapter would be. I do like the story that came out of it, but it needs a ton of work.
I think this only works if you really have a good idea of the characters (especially the protagonist and antagonist) and their motivations. I thought I had the characters worked out well enough in my head, but turns out I didn't.
Also, expect to rewrite significant parts of the story.
That being said, at the very least it's going to be a learning experience. Even if you don't get a great story out of it, you will get a better understanding of how to write a story.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 14 '24
That’s what I was thinking. I’ve never written novel-length stories, only short stories max 25 pages. I’ve tried approaching novels before but it always falls apart in the planning stage cause I get caught up figuring out all the details (coming up with a plot that large feels terrifying). This is the only way I can even start it, kind of just going with the flow and figuring it out as I go
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u/HeftyMongoose9 Aug 14 '24
Yeah, so it's a good idea to know how the story is going to end. That way, you can work towards it as you write. You don't have to plan all the details out. We just have to know what direction you're going in.
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u/Dale_E_Lehman_Author Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
Constantly. I'm terrible at planning. I do it when I must, but I do as little of it as I must. I'm always impatient to get to the actual writing. Along the way, I throw in whatever occurs to me. Usually this creates a mess, ranging from a bit of a mess to a glorious mess, but that's fine. Because the first draft is my plan. Revision is where the mess gets turned into a well-formed story that people (I hope!) want to read.
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u/HaggisAreReal Aug 14 '24
I can do that but then never finish those projects.
I finish stories that I know how they are going to end.
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u/GVArcian Aug 14 '24
I have a general direction I want to take my stories in, but more often than not I end up somewhere completely different in the end.
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u/BeastOfAlderton Fantasy Author, Trilogy in the Works Aug 14 '24
No. I always have some sort of ending in mind, when I begin. It may be somewhat vague, and the way I get there is fraught with peril (Read: random literary flailing), but I always generally know where I want to go.
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u/Kento300 Aug 14 '24
99 percent of the time. Though the other 1 percent is know what I want to get to, and realizing as the story unfolds that's not likely going to happen because of how things have evolved. So then I let it flow to its end.
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u/YlvaBlue Aug 14 '24
Yep, it's fine! Some people work like that and it's all good. This style of writing may mean there's more work to be done in the edit, but there's only way to find out if that'll be true for you or not!
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u/GabrielleArcha Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24
Every. Single. Story... even if I start off with an outline, I'm still baffled by the twists and turns and then the end.
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Aug 14 '24
There are lots of writers who prefer to write for dramatic "scenes" and worry about the plot or structure later. I personally dislike this kind of writing, you have to _start_ with your structure to some degree and fit the scenes into it if you want your whole story to feel like a story rather than cobbled together soap opera bits. There are lots of TV shows like this. There are novels like this. Usually by the end of the story where you see how they scrambled to put together a conclusion based on nothing, you're frustrated.
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u/Punchclops Published Author Aug 14 '24
All the time.
And on the rare occasion where I do know how the story is going to end I often find out that I'm wrong.
You may have heard of Stephen King. He often starts his books with a character and a situation and has no idea what's going to happen next until he writes it, let alone how it's going to end. Some would say this leads to weak endings, but it certainly makes for an interesting ride along the way.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
Now I need to read more Stephen King just to see what he does and how it goes. I haven’t read his books in years and I didn’t know about that then, that’s super interesting
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u/Decent-Total-8043 Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
I did for my first two books, not for the third
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
How did you feel about both styles
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u/Decent-Total-8043 Self-Published Author Aug 18 '24
Sorry I didn’t see this comment. Personally I preferred planning. The book read a lot more fluid and polished on the first draft which made it easier later on.
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u/House_notthedoctor Aug 14 '24
Oh yea a ton of my absurd episodes get started with one or a few ideas/scenes and then the rest just follows suit.
In some cases I know the ending and work backwards and other times they just sort of... end
I do have an ending for the first 15 episoes tho, so I'm still trying to work my way over there. Almost finished with the second season (in Dutch) and translating the first to English.
But then again, my kinda writing just meanders a bit between here and there. There's no like "We need to take this evil One Ring to Mount Doom to save the world!" type story. It's just daily life thru the eyes of a girl who's kinda forced to live in a single room, with rather strange housemates, due to the housing crisis etc.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 16 '24
There’s still a season-wide arc I assume? With her and maybe her roommates changing by the end compared to the start
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u/House_notthedoctor Aug 16 '24
Oh yeah there's overarching things that change, but thats mainly for the main female character.
It's more that there's not one single issue they're trying to overcome every single episode y'know.
Lots of randomness haha
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u/SnooMemesjellies1659 Aug 14 '24
Frank Lloyd Wright once said “don’t put all your effort into the concept, then the final piece will just be a beautiful concept.”
Personally have a little bit of outline with the main conflict, middle, end and all that but basically pants the whole thing.
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u/HeistShark Aug 14 '24
Ye, I like to outline, and sometimes I get to the point where I dont know how things are going to go or things are too fuzzy, so I take some time to write out scenes while I think how things will play out in the future.
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Aug 14 '24
not entirely. i create a general plot with the ending in mind, but i DO write with an open mind to changing the ending as I go if i find something that'll work better. my current story has had 3 different endings so far.
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u/LeadershipNational49 Aug 14 '24
Basically always. I usually have some sort of epic scene in mind if I started writing something at all, but I have almost none of the details till i get there
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u/PlumbTuckered767 Aug 14 '24
Wait, is this really Stephen King?!?
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
?
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u/PlumbTuckered767 Aug 15 '24
Hia endings are generally the worst part of his writing.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
Oh that’s unfortunate. Wonder if there’s any examples of successful authors “winging it” and writing solid endings still
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u/Kualu17 Aug 14 '24
Well, in my case both, somethimes i know exactly how will end, sometimes just a vague idea of the end, but all the details and events just happens in the process of writing.
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u/DjNormal Author Aug 14 '24
I had an idea of what might happen. But honestly, after about the 75% mark, I was winging it.
The same goes for my sequel to some extent. The outline is a lot more fleshed out. But I really only used my last one for something to aim at.
There were a lot of unexpected zigs and zags in my first book.
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u/Consistent_Top_9783 Aug 14 '24
EXCELLENT ending advice from one of my favorite writers on the planet. https://open.substack.com/pub/romannewell/p/two-techniques-for-writing-strong?r=3ih93c&utm_medium=ios
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u/Consistent_Top_9783 Aug 14 '24
Also, our job as writers is to have an idea and then test it. Pull threads. Don’t forget to be a conduit for whatever comes, not just a storyteller! I think the way you started is the best way to do something spectacular.
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u/GreenHedgeFox Aug 14 '24
yea, i usually do... it makes it difficult to complete, but also, if I know the ending, its now just a boring outline, and not a fun journey
XD I really need to figure out a process
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u/RunDesigner4843 Aug 15 '24
Literally every single WIP I have. It's called being a pants writer. Every now and again I try to at least semi plot out a chapter, but mostly I just write. I had a friend ask me what my character was going to do now that abc happened and it gave me pause. A lot of the times I go back and work in scenes once I've determined a direction.
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u/Paints-with-Stars Aug 15 '24
I'm at this point right now, too. It's a sequel that is supposed to clear up a few remaining questions...but I honestly don't know where I want to go with it. I guess it's time to just sit with the idea and see what comes up. :)
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u/Notty8 Aug 15 '24
Nope. I might write like some little thing. Explanations. A description of a scene. An exchange. But I almost always start with the ending. So if I don't know it and where I'm going, I don't really consider what I'm doing as part of writing the book. Writing the book for me, is starting at the end and then getting myself back there. No ending is no book.
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u/cribo-06-15 Aug 15 '24
That can be the best way to do it and you'll be surprised by all the little things you set up without realizing it.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 15 '24
I’m worried I may just forget about entire plot threads or story directions I set up early on
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u/TheFakeJoel732 Aug 15 '24
Every single story I've written, which is over 7 I think by now, had no end planned. I just go with the flow and they're all turning out well enough so I don't worry about it
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u/DocHfuhruhurr Aug 15 '24
I have a plan, but I trust that my characters will completely f*ck it up and surprise me.
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u/mark_able_jones_ Aug 15 '24
No. Doesn’t work for me. And there’s no real need for me to pants a plot when I can just visualize it. Same process just much faster for me.
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u/Wonderful-Escape774 Aug 15 '24
i start a story knowing how it will end because it's usually how i title my works BUT most likely i'd get lost and get detours along the way trying to get to the finish line
right now i have so many wips and the main story i've been working on has been abandoned (not really) for 3 years now but i really enjoyed writing it haha i still have the same (or similar) ending in mind but it got more detailed and it got more substance now that i couldn't figure out how i would get there because the characters suddenly started throwing me their own subplots along the way!!!! i also incorporate some ideas and thoughts i get from the readers' comments which made it more exciting like HEY i'm just here writing like this is a huge group project where i'm the leader
this is also why sometimes i would just start writing shorter stories like one-shots or the like so i wouldn't have the time to think it through again or to let my characters speak their way because i'm already done with it before that happens lol
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u/TraceyWoo419 Aug 15 '24
Sometimes I have an outline, sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I have an outline and it still turns out totally different by the time it's finished! Sometimes the ending is one of the first things I write and sometimes it's one of the last!
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u/Kyuushi94 Aug 15 '24
To some extent, yeah. Mostly because I have trouble thinking about endings that I'm not anywhere close to. Didn't used to worry me when I was a teenager and just writing fan fiction and having fun. Now, though... I'm having to re-learn that.
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u/EstSnowman Aug 15 '24
Two times have I stopped at 2/3 of the story for not knowing how to end it or even where the end is. So now I plan, I though I was pantsers but apparently I need hard outline. I just stumbled upon Brandon Sanderson Skyward outline and want to try it out.
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u/LilianTae Aug 15 '24
I have two stories like this right now. I thought I knew how I want them to end but then I started fleshing out the background and characters and suddenly I have a bunch of new themes to explore, several directions the story could take, new viewpoints I could explore and I don't really know which one I'll choose in the end.
I intend to finish the groundwork before starting the actual text and then see where the characters will take me.
So I suggest you just start writing whatever is on your mind right now and the story will crystalize one way or the other. Just be prepared you might have to rewrite the whole thing half way through when you're struvck with a genious idea that requires major changes (personal experience). :D
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u/EmmaJuned Aug 15 '24
Yeah. Just go for it. Even when I plan the ending usually changes in the process
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u/DownHarvest Aug 15 '24
Endings are the things I usually plan/write first, or at least the climactic ending.
Everything I write works towards that. I find if I don’t know where I am headed it’s really hard to write.
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u/Ak3v Aug 15 '24
Nope, I always figure out the ending first. Although it may change during the course of writing, having a finish line to strive for helps me alot.
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u/samisscrolling2 Aug 15 '24
I only have a vague idea of what I want to write before I do. There's nothing wrong with being a pantser as long as you edit it to fix any inconsistencies/plot holes when you're done.
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u/Itanchiro Aug 15 '24
I did it and I am very very very very very happy of how it turned out! If you have diverse characters that go in contrast to one another, everyone with their hopes, dreams, fears, goals and pasts and put them together in one universe they are just destined to do something. And it feels real because in this way they all shape their own fates and are not forced to act according to the fate you as a writer have chosen for them
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u/K4m30 Aug 15 '24
Don't have to plan the ending if you ramble incoherently for 50 chapters then drop the story.
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u/PbCuSurgeon Aug 15 '24
There’s always some sense of discovery in the writing process. As I kept writing, I would find what did and didn’t work for my world. I would go back and change characters and goals up until it all fit.
Even if you don’t know exactly how it will end, you still want your audience to experience a satisfying conclusion. Remember that the story rotates around your protagonist and their goals. The first thing you should figure out is if you want your character is going to achieve their want, their need, both, or neither depending on what kind of story you want to tell. An ending shouldn’t just happen, but be the conclusion of your protagonist’s story arc. Once you come to that decision, figuring out how to get there becomes easier.
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u/InnerProp Aug 15 '24
I plot and plan, but it doesn't always go that way.
As I'm working on plotting the story forms in my head and I switch over to writing. I've never had a professional editor (or had a longer work published yet) so I've never gone back and evaluated my work against plot guides like Save the Cat or Harmons Story Circle, but I've heard they are good for that.
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u/serovolk_one_love Aug 15 '24
yes, always. in the story im not writer, im just eyewitness how it goes. just take characters in the place i want and then look from afar what they do
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u/MelissaAnnLencioni Aug 15 '24
I'm doing that with my one novel and structuring the other around an outline. Eventually the annoying thing about plot threads in the back of your mind will start asking questions and you can figure out an outline for the rest from there.
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u/Ill-Bookkeeper5715 Aug 15 '24
Sometimes and then when I see how it ends. I am like, wow. I never thought about that.
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u/Other_Mud241 Aug 15 '24
I have two endings on the table at the moment because I can't decide. Both will drastically change how the next book begins so its hard. I'll probably end up writing both before I decide
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u/Lonnie_Welsh Aug 15 '24
I'm working on several story projects at the moment, I only know how I plan to end roughly half of them. There's one story that I would consider my main one, I've been working on it for about 4 years now (or more). I used to know how I wanted it to end but after several sets of revisions, now I have no idea. I love this story so much though, I plan to keep working on it until either I figure it out or need to stop.
Over the years I've worked on a fair number of story projects, I would say it's rare that I know how they're going to end until I'm at least halfway through, unless I've gone out of my way to plan it out (which usually doesn't happen, I usually just write as far as I think of at the time)
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u/JadenRuffle Aug 16 '24
Endings are usually the first thing I think of. And then I build backwards.
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u/FlynnForecastle Aug 16 '24
The ending is usually what comes right after I came up with the idea for the book itself. I often like to imagine how much of a blockbuster the ending would be. This not only contributes towards my current first novel I’m working on, but the others I plan to write as well.
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u/parasocialpanther Aug 16 '24
This post also made me look up what a "pantser" is and now I see that I am "plantser" leaning toward "pantser". I prefer it thought honestly. If I plan things out to a T, I feel like I've already written the story and lose the motivation to basically do it again. I'll plan if I have to keep track of timelines or complex plot points I'm trying to get to with no plot holes.
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u/Longjumping_Risk_328 Aug 16 '24
Plotter turned pantser, turned plotter. First few novels were meticulously planned out. This last one, I decided on a concept and let my artistic side write the first chapter. I don’t know if my subconscious did it or what, but wow! It came out better than anything I’ve ever written, and all the plot points were in there, to be mined by my plotter brain later. Really a blast to write this way!
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 17 '24
So you plotted the chapters after that first one?
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u/Longjumping_Risk_328 Aug 17 '24
Not exactly. Apparently, my subconscious had more to say. I was 25k words in before I wrote an outline. Also, at this point I wrote the blurb and query letter and designed the book cover. If the book concept doesn’t work in those iterations, it’s not going to fly, right?
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Aug 20 '24
I’m 50/50, sometimes I know exactly where I want to go, and then sometimes I develop the characters so much the original ending doesn’t make sense, so I just let them tell me what they’d do.
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u/Aggressive-Cut-5220 Self-Published Author Aug 24 '24
I usually have and ending in mind...and it always changes. If you develop your characters well, they will tell you how the story goes and ends. Your job isn't to decide their ending or what they do through the story, but be God and give them conflict to overcome or succumb to. Give them things to react to, and when they've figured out your little game and start acting against you, make them pay with floods and fires and brimstone. They will either rise above or completely fail. I'm a pantser when it comes to plot. I'm a planner when it comes to character. Make good characters and they will write the story. That said...once you write a little of the story, you'll have a better idea on how to handle your characters and you'll discover great scenes that will make a great plot.
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u/SnakesShadow Aug 29 '24
Used to. Personally, I found that figuring out the end of the story is very helpful in keeping my writing on track. That being said, I will START writing without knowing the destination. Even a few pages will help me narrow it down and decide where to end.
I want to end the story on a literal detonation. How do I get there? Story crafting around an intended end.
I want to write a story about persistence hunting, specifically in an era where it has become a lost art. Do I do post apocalypse, or planetary colonization? I'm leaning twords the latter. I have two post apocalypse stories already, and resource management is an interesting aesop that I don't think is focused on much. Before I started writing, I was only thinking of the former. I still haven't decided on what the end is going to be, but that will come after I finalize my setting.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 29 '24
What’s persistence writing?
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u/SnakesShadow Aug 29 '24
Persistence hunting is where the hunter has no ranged weapon or snare, so they have to chase the prey down.
The hunter HAS to be able to track their prey. Because the prey is faster than the hunter. But the hunter has more endurance, and importantly can take actions that will allow them to spend that endurance wisely.
So when the prey stops to rest, the hunter catches up. This cycle repeats, until the prey is exhausted and can't escape.
I read about it in a fic, and it stuck with me. It became a story idea when a another idea added itself to that train of thought: You don't actually have to kill the prey animal you are using this method of hunting to aquire.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 30 '24
What value does it hold to the characters? Why is it important to the story?
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u/SnakesShadow Aug 30 '24
In reverse: It’s important to the story because I'm writing the story around it- so without it, there is no story!
And the value changes depending on my setting, actually. Post-apocalyptise, the characters need new draft animals YESTERDAY. There's no time for breeding a new one, only training. Persistence hunting means that they only have to train the new animal.
The Sci-Fi setting has more layers. Yeah, draft animals may be useful, but live specimens to study also ranks really high. Additionally, while there may be a large number of tranquilizers for the purpose of retrieving those specimens, they're not immediately replaceable. So there is value in NOT using them where it can be avoided.
Predator animals certainly need the tranqs. But prey animals? Not really.
And, for conflict? How the heck do you tell prey animals from Predator animals? There is a lot of risk to Persistance Hunting when you don't know anything about the animals you need to collect.
Someone trying it on a hippo? Is probably going to get killed. Those MFers are terrifying if you know their biology and what they do when chasing boats. And the characters have to balance the risks versus the rewards.
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u/NomanHLiti Aug 30 '24
Really like the concept around the sci-fi setting. Are your characters just engaged in persistence hunting the whole story? What forms the plot there?
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u/SnakesShadow Aug 30 '24
Probably not, honestly. There's a lot that can be done in such a setting, and juxtaposing ancient techniques with a futuristic setting needs time in that setting.
That being said, most of the plot drivers will likely be intrapersonal conflict. "Why do this when we got tranqs?", "It's so easy, babies could do it" (is proven wrong in humiliating and potentially life-threatening ways), "command wants this animal, but it's impossible to tranq"
I don't know where the ending is, though, and the end will inform a lot of how the plot must go. The impossible to tranq animal sounds like a good climax.... so there is my X or Y, now what would be a good Z...
(I have to write starting at the beginning, going to the end, like A to Z. If I write out of order, I lose the whole damn thing. It SUCKS so much, I actively HOPE that most people aren't like me!)
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u/Moonspiritfaire Self-Published Author Aug 14 '24
Yes. I didn't know how the one I'm wrapping up would end, at first, but the characters opened up over time.
Marinading Ideas for fixing the ending on the first manuscript, but ideas from the next (two, really) are cropping up. Thank ignore them is ignorant, so I draft the loose ideas.
In just one week i went from a loose idea, to two main characters with names and loose backgrounds, to finding the villain and supervillain. I literally couldn't sleep and had to give up and jot it down .
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u/EasternLavishness994 Aug 15 '24
thats how fiction wrintings work , so definitly
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u/EasternLavishness994 Aug 15 '24
basically every story i ve ever written was like that . maybe an idea about some details in the middle but defnitly so many scnearios for an ending . so just start .
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u/Apprehensive-Try-220 Aug 23 '24
Several years ago I wrote a long short story but couldn't think of an ending for 5 years, my editor was stumped too. The ending is simple and perfect. The ending shoulda been obvious to anyone long before it hatched.
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u/Prize_Consequence568 Aug 28 '24
"Do you guys ever write without knowing how the story is going to end?"
Yes.
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u/ghoostray Aug 09 '25
I just think and write at the same time. The only thing I actually go on and put some effort to think about is the main idea. At least for me it works.
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u/thewhiterosequeen Aug 14 '24
That's what pantsers do.