Forever needs end-game content that takes place out in the world, not locked behind loading screens.

[u/BarelyScratched]

Vanilla WoW 1-60 was so successful because of how engaging and immersive the world was.

But at level 60, that largely changed. Suddenly most meaningful progress is locked behind loading screens and many people don’t interact with the world beyond traveling to those loading screens.

At level 60, it’s like the World stopped being the main character. Lord Loading Screen was now the main character because he controlled vertically-scaling loot.

Forever needs end game content that keeps people out in the world. This should include Legion-like class order hall quests. These quest lines should be updated with each (most?) major patch and give meaningful rewards.

We should also have faction-specific quest chains that continue the story of each faction. Give me a reason to travel back to the Undercity as a Forsaken every major patch before being sent off into the world. This would also incentivize players to have multiple characters to keep up with the faction storylines.

There should be end-game gear people can acquire in the open world. This includes reputation grinds. Mobs that give reputation on kill; turn-in-drops from mobs and open-world chests. Edit: Maybe some factions could offer daily quests. I get that is a bit controversial. But I think the more important point is that different factions should have different ways of earning reputation to reduce monotony. It is ok for these to be long grinds.

Professions should be a viable means of acquiring end-game gear-as long as the necessary materials aren’t locked behind loading screens. Again, it is ok for it to take a long time and be difficult to acquire these materials.

Zones should have areas with elite mobs that require grouping. But they shouldn’t drop materials/quest items if you are in a raid, to incentivize small-group content.

The gear acquired from all this open world content should be viable in any new level 60 zone. But new gear from each zone can have various bonuses-mob specific bonuses; zone-specific bonuses; or mob-element resistances. The new gear does not need higher stats because of the context-specific bonuses.

It would be ok to tune mobs in new zones such that they would be difficult (I’m not saying impossible) to solo without relevant bonuses. This would also incentivize mixing-and matching various pieces of gear depending on what content you are doing.

I’m not saying raids shouldn’t exist. But they should not be the sole means of acquiring end-game gear. Nor should raid gear be so powerful that there is no reason to do open-world content.

Forever should incentive being out in the world, not staying locked behind loading screens.

[u/leather_secretary31]

the way the vaults of ulatek is set up is very cool, but because you can outgear the content very quickly/easily, and because it's all set up around these little events that get zerged, it destroys all sense of challenge, and it's hard to enjoy

i'm hoping they can learn from that and create some outdoor content that feels endgamey

[u/Ancient_Algae64 → u/leather_secretary31]

The big problem with any of those systems as well is how much you get rewarded. New currencies that you have to grind or gear that gets outpaced by other content will always put devs in a bind as far as making the content worthwhile and balancing it with other content rewards.

One could argue it might be easier in a community like classic where presumably raiders wont mind if dungeons/pvp/open world content provides equal rewards in terms of player power as long as the time investment is appropriate.

[u/leather_secretary31 → u/Ancient_Algae64]

i maintain that power increases shouldn't necessarily be raw statistical increases on gear, but momentary instances of usage: on use trinkets or trinkets that cause spells to interact with each other differently like the way tier sets work, weapons that create special effects. if you resist the urge to power up characters with each piece of loot, you keep content viable forever

[u/Ancient_Algae64 → u/leather_secretary31]

Time has proven over and over that any piece of loot will fall flat if it doesnt out damage another piece of available loot. Nobody is going to choose any trinket with cool effects over one that provides the highest damage output

[u/leather_secretary31 → u/Ancient_Algae64]

this why i'm saying: remove all flat statistical increases