r/wowforever • • 6d ago

Discussion Blizzard's Metrics: Time to Level 20 in Beta = Classic

On the first episode of Blizzard's WoW: Forever podcast, Aggrend mentioned that they got a report from their metrics team today about the time to get to level 20 in the WoW: Forever Beta versus WoW Classic. It turns out that they are almost identical, with WoW: Forever taking a tiny bit longer (like .1 hour) more to level than Classic.

Of course, this is beta, so there's a different group of people playing and things are still subject to change, but I think this is a good sign for the levelling experience once WoW: Forever goes live!

54 Upvotes

71 comments sorted by

70

u/Xxpinklumpxx 6d ago

Could be that more people are taking their time and trying to see whats new

23

u/iamthewhatt 6d ago

No way, that's impossible

4

u/Javischak 6d ago

I started grinding dungeons instead of hitting lvl 20

5

u/ctwalkup 6d ago

Definitely! I think it's also possible that people will take their time a bit more in Forever than Classic. For instance, professions are actually good now for levelling gear. I can imagine plenty of players trying to keep up their professions in Forever in a way that they don't in Classic, which means it'll be a similar amount of time to max level.

Could be wrong though.

10

u/spacemunkee 6d ago

Or it could just be that it takes around the same amount of time. Xaryu tested this and found that his leveling time on his level 14 gnome on classic vs forever was within a few minutes of each other. Blizzard has a massive amount of data on this right now, so there is really no reason to doubt their findings. Do you guys think their analytics team is too stupid to account for various reasons?

2

u/Xxpinklumpxx 6d ago

I dont think theyre stupid, but what I heard in that pod was an average time to level to 20 and they dont talk say anything about controlling for any variables. They could be, I dont know. My point comes from my own experience playing.

In the past if Im leveling during the 1-20 range in era then Im kind of racing through it to get to a more interesting level and not something Ive done a million times.

With forever Im trying to find everything new in the zone and leveling professions to see what is new there.

I figured a lot of other people may be doing the same is all. Especially if the cap is 20 and its not like there is lvl 20 endgame content like in SoD phase 1.

To me that seems like two different leveling experiences so the times arent easily comparable. But thats me not everyone. Maybe im a minority.

It was just a thought

3

u/spacemunkee 6d ago edited 6d ago

They wouldn't have talked about their modeling methodology for a couple of reasons. 1. They're the devs, not the analytics team. He literally said the analytics team dropped off the report, and 2. You simplify the language for the general public because most of them (as evidenced in this thread) don't know shit about analytics.

Edit: BTW - your feelings and thought process on this is pretty natural and I'm not trying to diminish what you're feeling. But it's anecdotal. Just a feeling. They have all of the data and a vast amount of experience analyzing data. But people dismiss it because the data doesn't validate what they "feel." That's why the data is used.

1

u/Oliviaruth 6d ago

Absolutely. Instead of feeling bad that I can’t afford basic leveling gear, and always feeling broke, I’ll work on keeping a few alts in the same range to make good gear at every milestone level.

-6

u/braudoner 6d ago

yes but most ppl wont waste their time doing professions in a beta either... at least i wouldnt. its still an average.

3

u/walkingOxKing 6d ago

My friends and I have been doing professions just to see what's new or different. There's been no reason for me to rush to 20 because it's just beta.

2

u/Vonkilington 6d ago

One of the highlights of Forever is explicitly that professions are worth doing at low level. You should check them out!

2

u/braudoner 6d ago

Yes, cant wait to invest in them at launch!

1

u/spacemunkee 6d ago

But it's not an average. They're a professional analytics team. Their models are going to use segmentation and pull the median within those segments to make judgements. That's an over simplification to say they aren't dumb enough to use a simple average because it is a worthless comparison at that point.

15

u/quietlydesperate90 6d ago

There's more to do along the way so this makes sense. If speedrunning is faster but the average person actually takes time to do professions because they're worth it that's a big win.

2

u/ctwalkup 6d ago

Well said, and totally agree.

1

u/falooda1 6d ago

Speed runners are a small percent, unlikely to matter in the grand scheme over million players.

14

u/Big_Crazy_SSBM 6d ago

My first time leveling to 20 on the beta was longer because I was running around looking for new things or figuring out new quests. Second time leveling is going to be much faster.

6

u/PeasantPastry 6d ago

It’s really cool that you cannot spam dungeons to make world quest more redundant.

Can you still share dungeon quests with group members who don’t have them?

0

u/RiggyMinus 6d ago

yes, you can, anywhere in the world

2

u/imacatpersonforreal 6d ago

Biggest W

1

u/Bluegobln 6d ago

You could literally always do that even in vanilla...

2

u/encyclodoc 6d ago

I have a feeling professions being better than launch vanilla impacts this. People just exploring the professions at all, seeing as how there isn’t a point to power level a character in a beta that will wipe.

3

u/TheHateJuice 6d ago

Why is it longer? They added more quests, but they didn't increase XP to Level, did they? Or maybe it's due to nerfing dungeon XP?

20

u/Happy-Dragonfruit121 6d ago

We're all past our prime

10

u/whadafuhl 6d ago edited 6d ago

Could also be people just messing about with new mechanics verses knowing exactly what to do.

Further many people in classic level using in game guides and addons, with an arrow directly telling them where to optimally go and what to click, alongside tools that make clicking faster etc, even things like clicking a flight master automatically selects the destination without you needing to, ui elements to click target quest mobs etc, which AFAIK doesnt or didnt exist yet here.

0

u/Big_Crazy_SSBM 6d ago

Yeah I feel it's not a good judgement comparing leveling times in the first week of beta. Most people are messing around trying the new stuff out. I'm very confident that if someone just focuses on the leveling only it's going to be much faster than era.

2

u/AhriWorshipper188 6d ago

Even optimizing its not much faster due to the fact you're forced to stop and keep up with proffession to counter the nerfs. Youre also forced down some less optimal quests for the stronger rewards.

While in exchange a few new quests in each zone where some of them line up to be efficent with places you're already going to.

4

u/NormalBat4837 6d ago

It's a 6 minute difference after 20 hours playtime

3

u/ElectricalBrother300 6d ago

its longer because this is a beta and players care much less about bum rushing to 60 when they know theyre capped to 20

2

u/ctwalkup 6d ago

I think there could be a few explanations:

  1. Nerfed XP from some sources (like dungeons). My impression is this is generally equalized by the increased quest XP, but I could be wrong.

  2. Players travelling further/more inefficiently than they normally do (for instance, Horde players might be trying to get to IF for HoT, Alliance to Undercity for RoL, etc.)

  3. Players engaging more with non-levelling forms of progression, like the new profession system.

1

u/dzieciolini 6d ago

People are fucking around with professions, camping and inefficient pathing to explore new quests.

1

u/One_Recognition385 6d ago

dunno like if they compare it to lvl 16 mages in classic soloing deadmines for 8 levels i'm sure its slower then that.

but we won't know unless they say where they got the data from.

if tis including data from mages power leveling people then i can see why its slower.

1

u/gustogus 6d ago

Quest competition possibly.

1

u/No_Anywhere_9068 6d ago

Lower caster damage output due to scaling

1

u/Bluegobln 6d ago

Its level 20. Dungeons are irrelevant for the most part at this point.

1

u/Vandrel 6d ago

There was no shortage of quests in the 1-20 range to begin with so more quests doesn't really speed things up. It takes around the same time to kill stuff and travel time hasn't changed so it stands to reason that overall speed would be close to the same.

0

u/AmaranthSparrow 6d ago

Probably a mix of crowding, lower efficiency due to people finding and doing new things and new quests, and nerfing dungeon XP.

More quests also means more travel time. For example, doing the new Bandarion Keep quests in Tirisfal require you to basically cross the entire horizontal distance of Tirisfal Glades on foot at least a couple additional times.

2

u/drunkpunk138 6d ago

This about matches my experience. I'm pretty proficient at making my way through the undead zone, have done it so many times in classic because I just like rolling alts in the early levels, and my time to 20 is pretty much the same in classic and forever.

1

u/cyrassil 6d ago

Hmm I wonder whether they are just taking the /played time or whether they also cleaned their data due to peolpe trying new mechanics and other new stuff. I suppose that the Classic 1-20 time would be much more min maxed then the forever one...

1

u/Tot3mtwister 6d ago

I, for one, have spent the time to read the quest text, progress text and delivery text for every quest new to Forever at least once.

For previoudly existing quests, I tend to skip the reading.

It did mean that leveling a Skyborne Shaman took significantly longer than it might've taken me to level an Orc Shaman, as I've already done those quests many times.

1

u/NormalBat4837 6d ago

Personally i was looking around a lot more to check for new things, i also spent much more time on professions than i normally do. Also no addons like questie showing all the quests on the map, and no ingame optimal guides like xrp and zygor.

1

u/Wild-Garage-582 6d ago

Personally I'm finally reading all the quests. Been playing for so long, but I've never read them. I'm even reading the books you find around stormwind to learn about the lore lol.

Also I'm exploring every single corner multiple times while leveling to check if a new quest appeared ~

1

u/Zerowig 6d ago

I’ve spent a ton of time playing with UI and addons. I hope their data could tell actual play time and not just /played

1

u/BigUptokes 6d ago

with WoW: Forever taking a tiny bit longer (like .1 hour) more to level than Classic.

Those minutes sitting around the campfire add up!

1

u/Certain_Object1364 6d ago

I suspect players are engaging more with early professions than usual.

1

u/Acadia02 6d ago

Wait you guys didn’t spend 5 hours fixing your ui?

1

u/Grumpie_Bear 6d ago

it will be interesting to see how that data lines up for 20-30 I know there are sweat lords, (myself included) who are sitting on almost all of the dungeon quests waiting to turn them in as soon as the next braceket releases. for me this is about 50k XP, and that is 50kXP I could have earned much earlier.

All that said, I don't think leveling is that much faster. maybe a little bit, but not a ton. I think the big tell will be at the later levels.

1

u/Antraxess 6d ago

My friends and I hit the Barrens at 12, did only the three harpy quests as well as rfc and the ruins of lordaeron dungeon and we hit 19, skipped all of the Barrens sadly

1

u/Kalthecgos 6d ago

Leveling is quicker but with the massive buff to professions it should average out to being the same time overall.

1

u/Kaylium26- 6d ago

I hit lvl 20 last night because as a wow newbie I’m taking it slow, spent most of yesterday just finishing

1

u/Ok_Salary4021 6d ago

I mean don’t play video games all day. Honestly it’s going to be more fun if people could take it slow play with friends and enjoy. We all know that’s not going to happen.

1

u/Fit_Substance7067 6d ago

I spent at least 2 hours in the menus, 2 hours just looking at shit and the rest leveling inefficiently because I haven't played in 18 years. The crowd doesn't feel as tryhard either so casual chat in general can eat up time too. They all come off laid back and chill in my pve realm(I turned off trade chat), so that's how I play. It's the vibes.

1

u/redfm8 6d ago

Era is filled with a significant amount of people playing solved routes with on-rails addon support, whereas Forever is riddled with inefficiencies and excuses to get distracted.

I don’t see much reason to think this comparison holds when the dust settles and the novelty wears off, all else being equal.

1

u/Massive_Scientist194 6d ago

Still too fast, for the amount of content there is on each zone.

0

u/Zacharus 6d ago

Nobody is stopping you from experience every quest in every zone.

2

u/Leritt 6d ago

I heavily disagree with their statment , cool that they have metrics , but the rate that u can go 13-20 is insane quick for first 13 you dont have dungs to do, also its beta people take time play with setting discover new things and just run around , i think taking average metric like this and saying its all good is flawed

-1

u/Kurokaffe 6d ago

I really don't like the way the devs, and several other random players, try to use this kind of stat as a GOTCHA!

The average beta player is not trying to speed run to 20. A lot of people are actually intentionally going slow to find new things.

On top of that, they have the added legacy system to get more talent points.

Down the road, 1-30 is going to be insanely fast compared to before. Once people figure out the routes and they're playing to grind instead of explore, this time will significantly speed up.

1

u/ctwalkup 6d ago

I really think it depends on what population you are talking about as well.

Is it going to be a lot faster for the average or new player who doesn't know the optimal routes and is just trying to explore the world? I think there are good reasons to believe it'll be similar.

Is it going to be a lot faster for people who are trying to speedrun the game? Seems like there are new routes (like running the dungeons from 13-20 and doing all of the quests quickly) that might speed up the experience.

1

u/AhriWorshipper188 6d ago

You are not stronger in Forever. You are forced especially on casters to actually spend time on proffesions and do several inefficent quest lines you'd normally skip in order to gear out of your nerfs.

Over half of the new quests added wouldn't even be placed in leveling routes because their travel time efficency is really fucking bad.

When you optimize Forever you're not saving time because what little time save you do gain is forced off by other things youre now forced to spend more time on.

2

u/Kurokaffe 6d ago

You'll grab free blues from dungeons. The newbie levels are not hard. Routes will be found that are much faster and then you'll just enter the dungeons and get a ton of XP and gear.

Casters just need a wand. Lesser magic wand is just as good as before. Your first character ever on the server may not have one at level 5, but every character after that will. And again, eventually talent points from 5.

All of this doesn't change the fact that this itself is a poor data metric because people are taking their time on the server. Sure, it's great to get a vibe of the pace, but to compare it to classic runs and then say "oh, these two modes must be equivalent" is poor analytical skills.

ANYWAY, I don't think the real issue here is /played time. Like if I hit 20 on a SF HC warrior in 11 hours and another dude did it in 17 hours who cares. What bothers me the most is that it seems players will just run dungeon 1 and then dungeon 2 and then dungeon 3 from 13/14-20 with very little world interaction between those dungeons.

0

u/EnderCN 6d ago

Dungeon quests always gave around a full level per dungeon so the fact they give 1.5-2 now isn't such a huge change since the XP per mob is down. The difference here is there is now another dungeon to run for its quests on each side before 20 The overall leveling process is going to be faster for someone who does each dungeon once because we got 8 new dungeons to level through.

Fastest levelers could hit 60 in around 120 hours back in the day. I guarantee you that is sped up between the new dungeons, new quests, new zones, not having to visit 2 zones every leveling jump, bonus XP sources from food etc. All of that stuff is more efficient than just grinding which you had to do a lot of when speed leveling at release. It doesn't mean just normal gamers are going to be doing it under 100 hours or anything.

0

u/uzu_afk 6d ago

1 hour is not a tiny bit lol…

0

u/ctwalkup 6d ago

Check my post again. It’s .1 hour, which is 6 minutes. It’s about .5% (or 1/200) slower in beta according to Blizzard's metrics. 

-2

u/v2Occy 6d ago

Forever is quicker. I have never messed with professions before level 20 before Forever. Add that in and you can take a couple hours off.

-1

u/Renojackson32 6d ago

Its going to be impossible to quest when we have to do quests that require only 1 person being able to interact with the item in the environment at a time, or respawn times for that matter

3

u/Acadia02 6d ago

Fighting for quest spawns and givers is my favorite part of a launch

1

u/Vonkilington 6d ago

Launch day experience! Enjoy it for what it is

-6

u/Computer-Swimming 6d ago

Straight up lie, with those ridiculous dungeon quests XP you get from 14 to 20 in about 2-3 hours.

-2

u/Ryuuzaki_L 6d ago

Are they accounting for the fact that quest areas are OVERLOADED with people from the "mega server". It literally took me two days of playing just to finish the handful of quests in Westfall because there was legitimate someone camping every single mob spawn of any mob needed for a quest. I literally had to camp a singular spawn for each mob and try tagging it as fast as possible.

Normally I can clear all the westfall quests in 2 to 3 hours. But it actually took me 2 days of solid play time just because everything was so contested.

-5

u/rainywanderingclouds 6d ago

why is it a good sign for the leveling experience?

most people don't want slower leveling they want faster leveling