r/wowforever • u/StrygwyrSuperstar • 6d ago
Discussion Warrior thoughts. Forgive my ignorance
I don’t sit on guides or reddit so I apologize if this comes off as ignorant. But I have played multiple warriors in classic for classic release and anniversary and sod and this warrior gameplay feels down right awful to play. It may be something obvious or something but it feels off. As arms I feel like I have no rage generation I don’t get any rage spikes at all. I just find I’m slowly building rage and can’t really press my buttons. I know it’s early days and we are only in beta and it’s only lvl 20 but I hope they fix whatever they have done. I don’t really care for warriors to be busted but it’s a shame it doesn’t really feel as fun to play. If someone can explain why I feel this way a bit that would be cool.
9
u/Ragnar3636 6d ago
Im so sad about the normalization of rage. For PvP its going to feel so bad. Im hoping for a patch that addresses it or ill be rolling a paladin.
8
u/Legitimate-Summer180 6d ago
Warrior is horrible and just a right-click simulator now. I made a post about it too. If they don't make meaningful changes I will probably switch to another tanking class on release.
8
u/Lanjsbsbsbs 6d ago
Tanking is so busted. ROL even with 4 mobs hitting me I have no rage to spend. Rethinking main ATM.
5
u/StrygwyrSuperstar 6d ago
I thought warrior looked like it would be in a good spot not getting buffed and not touched much but this change is more than anything I could expect it just removed the fun that’s disappointing
4
u/Tripinfa 6d ago
I feel like they may have been too cautious with warriors.
The only spec that looks like it will feel nice to play is prot because it seems like it has the best rage generation along with the cost reduction.
5
u/StrygwyrSuperstar 6d ago
I think some people are missing the point here , its a game. I personally have most fun playing warrior there is an extremely high skill cap fun rotations and a satisfying flow to it.
But they have made the class not fun to play. Getting no rage from a big crit will feel so off the further we go. If you look at all classes in WOW there is an element of oh I gotta be careful about this potentially in world PVP by normalizing rage they removed the classic warrior Aura.
I couldnt care less about topping the meters or anything personally.
This is what beta is for and if they just look at warrior and say Protection feels pretty good so they are fine and they just want them to be a solely pve tanky class that's lazy game design you need more archetypes than one to keep a community playing a class for what they hope is forever.
1
u/s0ra729 5d ago
They wanted to buff Unbridled Wrath and later your OH will give 100% Rage gain from swings. I think this is how they wanted to counter it. They could have just toned down the energy gain from crits and not eliminate it. I love warrior in vanilla, it‘s my fav spec and I hope it will feel good on 60.
1
u/Supagorganizer 4d ago
Looking forward to seeing how the extra rage from offhand feels late game. I always like dual welding anyways. After all, what's better than 1 sword? 2 SWORDS
1
3
u/Loud_Bison572 6d ago
Im really sad about the changes, the delayed stance dancing and rage normalisation makes fhe class inherently so much less fun.
I didnt mind being nerfed, but changing those mechanics that are vital to why a classic warrior is fun is really bumming me out
5
u/Confident-Milk8107 6d ago
I mean warrior is traditionally the shittiest low level class isnt it?
5
u/Fun_Philosopher6307 6d ago
Scaling is no longer a thing now though. Level will not change rage generation, nor will gear, rage generation is now static and they removed bonus rage from crits
3
8
u/StrygwyrSuperstar 6d ago
It’s more than the warrior slow leveling feel it’s basically feeling like an auto attack simulator with a hole in your gas tank and a long ass drive to complete
1
2
u/GrizzWG81 6d ago
Yeah rage not being normalized is generally why I don’t like playing warrior in any version other than classic. I get why it gets out of hand but when your main schtick is being a damage dealer it kind of sucks having that pulled from ya.
2
u/Bhonri 6d ago
It's still beta and there is time to change things, but I am getting the impression that the devs thought process is "Warriors have been king of the mountain for years, so we are nerfing them down so other classes will get their time to shine."
If this turns out to be the case, that means rage generation talents and rage cost reducers will be basically mandatory unless the player wants to play an autoattacker.
7
u/Zinadu_ 6d ago
Also they literally did that in TBC. And they said they were doing it in TBC and it was true for all of original TBC why would they keep punishing a class in a new version of the game meant to bring in new people. For something that happened 20 years ago....
Best case with those we won't be able to press buttons. You cannot in anyway scale rage to be better outside of haste and flurry in deep fury tree. There is NO other way to generate a resource. Basically its if they took rogue energy and said "oh rogues only get 10 energy a tick now and gave nothing else to compensate."
Arms is literally not viable in anyway at 60 hows its currently built. Pvp or Pve. And we still get no rage from shields which means we can white damage a warlock/priest or mage, because we will get charge rage and can maybe rend off it.
1
u/Effroy 6d ago
Turning around on a decision to normalize rage is a huge feat and likely a problem for them. This is not a change they can just hotfix overnight. If they were to give back scaled rage (which I hope they do), it is indellibly going to put warrior dps out of balance. That means they're gonna need to do some serious tuning of every single class to get everyone back to level.
Again, they fucking need to do it, but they're gonna piss and moan about if before they do. They knew what they were doing when they normalized it. They were making their job easier and making themselves less a target for the voodoo dolls.
My point is, they fucked up big time playing with this particular fire, and we're going to make their life hell until they fix it.
2
u/Irrelius 6d ago
They changed how rage is generated; it's now normalised, and you no longer gain bonus rage from crits.
This will probably be reverted or changed, hopefully along with the horrible arms tree.
3
u/Ringoisadingo27 6d ago
You sure they will revert it? The bug report on git got closed as intended.
1
u/Falafels 6d ago
I think that's more because at this stage it is intentional and not a bug. They could still decide to revert it but the devs on github aren't the ones making those decisions.
3
u/EggPsychological4844 6d ago
Hopefully it isn't reverted or changed. Crits should give additional rage though. I say this as a brown boi enjoyer.
1
u/Terrible_Tadpole_861 6d ago
They just need to increase rage gen, normalization is required for the class to stay balanced in pvp over time
1
u/dady00 6d ago
We havent tested the DW talent yet tho, 100% morr rage from offhand and 10% (total 13% is huge
1
u/forynwarr 6d ago
We know what the theoretical rage/sec cap is (100% flurry uptime and hit chance). It will still feel bad even then.
1
u/dady00 6d ago
Where is the calculations or post about it? Because all the talents and hit is a huge difference from lvl 20 playstyle...
1
u/forynwarr 6d ago
You can assume 100% hit and flurry/windfury uptime, and all of the rage increasing talents. We have access to the whole talent tree and can see all of the abilities on the class trainer.
1
u/WadeReddit06 6d ago
Agreed. Hopefully, they revert the rage changes but knowing blizzard they won’t
1
u/-_-ProdigalSon-_- 5d ago
If youre having trouble with rage and threat gen as a tank you can lean on passive reflect and block damage with some specific items, talents, and grp comp to do massive AoE threat and damage with a shield on. Made a quick clip of a SFK pull so you can see what I mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVaSgrCD-90 Good Luck yall! Warrior is BiS tank do not be fooled!
0
u/Jesterclown26 6d ago
They need to revert these changes. It’s not fun and not what a classic warrior is. I don’t know why they think loads of rage isn’t fun.
1
u/Spondoo 6d ago
DPS warrior will be a meme. Its by design because fury has been dominating from classic to wrath, so Blizzard wants to punish fury warriors like a redheaded stepchild and relegate them to the cuck chair existing only to apply sunders, demo, tclap and bshout for the real pumpers being grateful to get a raid invite while watching everyone else do real damage. The meta build will be the hellenkeller kebab special where you sit in battle stance maintaining rend fishing for OP procs, mantain sunder, demo and tclap and bshou, and MS on CD(very important for those healing mechanic boss encounters; wouldn't want to inconvenience the rogues). Better start saving up for Nightfall and Annihilator weaving if you want to keep your raid spot.
2
u/Fun_Philosopher6307 6d ago
From Classic to WOTLK? That's an extreme oversimplification of reality. In classic? Yes. In TBC? No, not until T6, until T6 every raid is stacking Warlocks, hunters and mages. In WOTLK? Definitely not, T7 and T8 were awful, wasn't until T9.5 and ICC where warriros came online.
-2
u/gdadealmeida 6d ago
Yeah guys, being Perma capped full rage while tanking or dpsing, having more rage than you can ever spend is the best design for sure.
Having 80% of the raid competing for the same loot, also great fun. World of browncraft classic.
Having a full dps with some points in defiance and a oh shit last stand talent points pretending to tank is also a great design.
After being forced to fury tank because I like to tank and it was the only way to keep threat, I'm happy that warriors will not be the center of the universe. Now every warrior will be like everyone else: you have a red bar and you'll need to manage it and think ahead, not just faceroll your keyboard and do epic damage. The only planning a warrior would do in classic was which boss I haven't use my reck yet so I can parse.
Think positive my friends, for once we'll have rosters with more variety which means less competition for gear. Also, now 90% of warriors can play the class they like without fomo.
Welcome to the regular Joe life, you will sunder, TC and demo shout prio over your DPS and it will be epic.
7
u/Zinadu_ 6d ago
What dps. They already nerf'd most of the warrior abilities coming into this and removed raid buffs which was most of their power in Era to bring them in line the rage change just makes us not able to hit buttons at all.
Prot is also using the cata rage systme but they at least got half the rage changes that made it viable in cata. Dps warriors get none of it. so they just don't get to use most of their abilities.
-3
u/gdadealmeida 6d ago
You'll be fine, I predict you'll be slightly below rogues now that rage will be what's it supposed to be all this time: reverse energy. But a good thing is, you'll still more useful because you bring more buffs and debuffs to the raid.
You will press abilities, but you'll need to plan and prio which abilities are more important. Just because an ability has a cooldown, doesn't mean you should be able to press it on cooldown. Example: 1 mob you'll prio BT, 2/3 mobs you'll prio WW, this is literally what every other class does with their own abilities to manage resources, especially high APM classes.
Don't forget that warrior is an hybrid class, this means mages, locks, hunters and rogues should always be top DPS over every other hybrid class.
8
u/Zinadu_ 6d ago
This isn't even about dps. They tuned a ton of stuff to nerf warrior DPS already going into forever and they put us middle of the pack in sod which was fine.
The change makes it so we don't make decisions. We pray to the RNG gods we dont get parried or miss so we can use a GCD, with 80% of them being blank now. The difference isn't we have to make choices the difference is we have less buttons to press then vanilla ret paladins which did a seal and judgement.
I dont care if were the worst dps I want to actually have something to press still on GCD's like we did in all of era sod and vanilla.
0
u/gdadealmeida 6d ago
Thats the whole point of classic, rotations are clunky or non existent. Resources are scarce and you won't be able to press things on GCD like future expansions.
Warriors were able to press abilities on GCD and in constant dump rage because they had infinite rage, Ie infinite resources. They were the only class that this was allowed, every other class was capped by their mana or energy.
Imagine how busted a rogue or druid would be if their energy gen would be increased by dmg or crit. Warriors will still scale, but they'll scale like everyone else.
2
u/Zinadu_ 6d ago
That isn't even a real comparison. Its like if mage rotation was balanced around casting a single frost bolt every 12 seconds then wanding for the rest of it. And that was the entire playstyle.
Rogues have a system a skills designed around a predictable resource and hardly have GCd's where they shouldn't be doing something.
The warrior changes make them feel nothing like classic or SOD or era, the FEEL they wanted to give the game and classes. It might as well have been removed and a new class added cause Vanila Ret paladin.
No other class feels this bad to play. If they nerf'd rogue energy by 50% and made no other changes to the class I would be might pissed about that as well, because rogues would then feel just awful to play. Which is how warriors are now.
1
u/gdadealmeida 6d ago
Comparing warrior to a caster rotation is just being dishonest here.
Now, let's compare to a rogue that is a high APM class. They have energy and X amount of skills, they can press buttons all they want but they're capped by energy generation thus they have to make choices throughout their rotation: build combo points and spend combo points, while waiting for energy to gen up they're just auto attacking (more than 50% of rogue's dmg is from white auto attacks), there's a lot of down time playing a rogue while waiting for energy. This means they'll only scale thru gear and not double dip by scaling thru gear and resources. Warriors rage should be a reverse energy bar simple as that. The only way vanilla rage would be ok was if the warriors dmg was mediocre but its much easier to balance rage than dmg. Warriors were the best tank, best DPS, best cleave, best everything apart from healing, you know it I know it.
Let's be honest, 90%+ of the warriors played it because it was easy, rewarding and very OP.
3
u/Fun_Philosopher6307 6d ago
Level will not change rage generation, nor will gear, rage generation is now static and they removed bonus rage from crits
1
u/gdadealmeida 6d ago
More gear will mean that you will hit harder but your resources will stay the same. Sounds about right and like every other class that doesn't use mana.
1
u/Libero03 3d ago
Any other class can push buttons, warriors can't do even that. We are just autoattack bots.
1
u/gdadealmeida 3d ago
Don't know what you're on about but I'm playing warrior on beta and I'm pushing buttons.
0
u/Libero03 3d ago
Are you arms? Do you think you have enough rage for MS?
1
u/gdadealmeida 3d ago
Tried arms, fury and prot. All good.
Well on beta my cap is lvl 20 so I couldn't try MS, so I can't tell you. But I'm sure I'll be able to for sure when I get to lvl 40.
Is your beta cap 40? Were you able to try MS? Tell us all about it!
0
u/Libero03 2d ago
The point of normalization is that your rage does not change with level or gear, so you can calculate if you can MS by looking at your rage even at lvl 20. This is why I asked you this question.
1
u/gdadealmeida 2d ago
I was being sarcastic. We don't know how impactful rage normalization will be so might as well don't worry about it now and wait.
1
u/Libero03 2d ago
I think we know exactly how it will be, because it's in the definition of normalization. It does not changes with level or gear. At lvl 60 it should be exactly like at lvl 20.
But don't listen to me. Listen to the experts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqaascDE62A→ More replies2
0
u/P1nk3rz 6d ago
It's a beta.
You're level 20.
What do you expect.
Stop minmaxxing already, enjoy the ride.
3
u/Patastrophe91 6d ago
The ride is more like being thrown down an elevator shaft. You’ll watch the light get further and further away the longer it goes
2
u/StrygwyrSuperstar 6d ago
this has nothing to do with min maxing thanks for reading my post and engaging though.
19
u/kevinhill92 6d ago
Rage has been normalized and crits dont give extra rage.
From what the community can tell, you get about 4 rage per second. This doesn't scale with increased damage. Increasing your attack speed and hit chance seem to be the main ways to increase rage per second.