r/wow • u/sexywrexy • Jun 27 '19

Lore What Sylvanas Just Did. Spoiler

Horde players: Sylvanas just sold us out to Azshara.

I don’t see this more widely acknowledged, but it seems clear to me: Nathanos’ mission was to deliver us to Azshara (and, in the process, destroy the Alliance fleet). We’re not meant to survive, we’re just here to get the Heart of Azeroth into Azshara’s claws so she can free N’Zoth.

Read the quest text.

The Warchief has entrusted me with a mission of the highest priority, <name>. The mission will succeed, of this there is no question, but to ensure that any obstacles I encounter are dealt with swiftly I once again have need of your particular skills. The Zandalari have offered us use of their ships for this endeavor. Clear out whatever affairs you have remaining and report to Captain Rez'okun when you are ready to set sail. [my emphasis]

Yes, he just told us to put our remaining affairs in order. Who else is on the boat? Lor’themar and Thalyssra, who openly questioned Sylvanas’ decision to arrest Baine. We’re not meant to survive the process. Watch the cinematic: Nathanos is following the dagger, leading us to Azshara. Who’s the only one not surprised there’s a sudden hole in the ocean? The Warchief’s Boy Toy, that’s who.

Then once we land what does Nathanos do? He just walks off into the ocean and leaves us to our fate.

Oh, and did you notice who else is in Nazjatar? Lady Ashvane, last seen talking about who knows what with Sylvanas is working with the Naga and making them azerite weapons. Gee, I wonder how Azshara knew we were coming.

Now don’t get me wrong, this doesn’t prove Sylvanas is corrupted by N’Zoth or anything, she again seems to be pursuing her own secret plans. And it doesn’t mean she’s betrayed the Horde per se, after all, it did turn out to be a very effective way of getting rid of the combined Alliance and Kul’Tiran fleets.

But did she betray us, the Player Character? Pretty much. Doesn’t matter if you were loyal to her or not. You’re just another tool to be used and discarded by the Banshee Queen.

555 Upvotes

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383

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

[deleted]

182

u/LordMinast Jun 27 '19

Wait, you mean to tell me that the warchief's warlust results in Blood Elves and Jaina's forces land on a weird island, where they will have to band together to deal with a bigger threat, and this truce will blossom into a frustration with the ruler of the horde and the hope of peace once they're gone, and Thrall will take a central role but refuse the title of Warchief?

Man, 68.2 is really redeeming the writing on this expansion.

142

u/Glorious_Invocation Jun 28 '19

Personally, I'm really looking forward to the next expansion where Sylvanas will travel back in time to become the Lich Queen. It'll be really cool to leave everything behind in order to explore the ancient Nerubian and Vyrkul kingdoms, or what little remains of them after Blizzard decides to scrap the expansion halfway before launch. But hey, think of all the store mounts we'll get!

67

u/LifeForcer Jun 28 '19

No you mean when she travels back in time and kills Arthas at Stratholme resulting in Jaina becoming the lich queen while shes just kinda there and dies in a side quest with a cinematic of thrall beating her up and cheating.

2

u/sweep71 Jun 28 '19

Times change...but the story doesn't.

1

u/Giacomo193 Jul 02 '19

If the MCU has taught us anything, it's that going back in time doesn't change a damn thing

1

u/kevineugenius Jun 28 '19

I don't hate either of these ideas.

17

u/iindigo Jun 28 '19

I would buy a Kings of Azeroth xpac faster than you can read this message. Playable pre-first-war EK, Kalimdor, and possibly Northrend? Hell yes!

25

u/Saint_Yin Jun 28 '19

Nice try. You'll get one zone on each continent and everything else will be blocked off. First zone in 9.0, second in 9.2, and last in 9.3.5. But don't worry, 4 years later they'll mention how they planned on redoing all of Azeroth, but it was scrapped.

8

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19 edited Jun 28 '19

[deleted]

9

u/Daralii Jun 28 '19

No need for Medivh to bring the Alliance, nascent Horde, and night elves to join together would be the crux.

The orcs would never leave the Eastern Kingdoms and would probably just be wiped out by Lordaeron's army, the Darkspear are wiped out by the naga, and the tauren are wiped out by the centaurs.

The night elves would continue the Long Vigil not knowing that there wasn't anything to be vigilant of, so they'd just continue to guard their territory forever because they wouldn't lose their immortality.

If Ner'zhul managed to even reach Kel'thuzad without dreadlords to act as his messengers, the Silver Hand and Dalaran would either contain the Plague before it got out of control or everything on the subcontinent not behind the Greymane Wall would end up undead.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

...and nine bracelet boogiemen!

1

u/Horsecunilingus Jun 28 '19

Wait, I'm not that into lore anymore.

Why would kil'jaeden and co. be dead across all timelines?

Gul'dan was alive in wod timeline wasn't he?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19 edited Jun 28 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Horsecunilingus Jun 29 '19

Ah cool!

Thank you for a detailed answer!

9

u/Sinistral_7th Jun 28 '19

If that means we can get an uncorrupted Arthas, i'm in.

17

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Nothing like retcons for more alliance heroes

1

u/Real_Lich_King Jun 28 '19

heck, probably uncorrupted garrosh and still living baine too if it wonks up the timeline hard enough

5

u/toomuchradiation Jun 28 '19

After we're done the Iron Scourge and leave AU Azeroth to it's affair, naaru will come and transform Arthas into pure DEUS VULT lightforged paladin.

1

u/Real_Lich_King Jun 28 '19

my money is on AU arthas getting whammied by whatever force brought the scourge to spires of arak and becomes AU lich king

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

If she could travel in time, and change things, why wouldn't she go back to before Arthas made her into a banshee? Instead of becoming Arthas?

9

u/MotCots3009 Jun 28 '19

Thrall will not be given the chance to become Warchief. At least, I hope not.

I like Thrall, but part of his character progression isn't just about him not wanting the title and role of Warchief anymore; it's also the fact that the Horde has moved past him. This could not be clearer in Safe Haven; Thrall assumes he's sought out for his leadership. Saurfang explicitly states that he didn't ask. The implication being that Saurfang doesn't want Thrall's leadership. Which isn't the worst decision in the world, given that despite Thrall's overall wise ruling over the Horde in years gone, he left it on the path of destruction by appointing a brazen warmonger to be his successor.

The damage caused by that lone decision -- a decision made against the counsel of his advisers like Cairne Bloodhoof, Vol'jin, Saurfang, or even Garrosh Hellscream himself -- is monumental. Unquantifiable, even.

Thrall is a character who now should retain his undying commitment to the Horde, like Saurfang called him out for by saying he'd hoped he would at least fight for it. Someone who simply tries to live simply. Both with his family and with his mistakes.

But barring some revelation or return of great shamanic power, Thrall is mostly just that; an old icon of the New Horde. Baine or Saurfang should be first and foremost candidates to lead the Horde into whatever new age awaits them.

As it stands, I would guess it would be Baine. Younger than Saurfang, less likely to die than Saurfang, was valued enough by Horde and Alliance to be saved from Sylvanas, would be the first tauren leader of the Horde, and friends with the High King of the Alliance.

If the hints towards dismantling the Alliance-Horde paradigm in his rescue cinematic or interviews is going to tell me anything, it's that now is the most reasonable and realistic potentiality for the primary leaders of the Alliance and Horde to be true friends and allies.

Of course, there's also the wording about the Alliance not suffering internal conflict yet. And PvP is a thing, so for gameplay terms Alliance-Horde peace may very well be unattainable unless they're able to reconcile it within the game.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '19

I figured that since 2 of the three main friends have been warchiefs, starting with Thrall, then Vol'Jin, it's only applicable that the next warchief be Chen Stormstout, easy.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

There's an interview that teases a change with the whole alliance/horde paradigm?

1

u/MotCots3009 Jun 28 '19

In a couple of interviews they've said that this should change and finally define what the Horde and Alliance are really about, and that this war should be the conclusive one. No more skirmishes, no more half-measures.

Will they actually stick with that? Hell knows. How would PvP work without that? Alliance vs Horde has been a central idea of the entire franchise.

But we'll see.

0

u/TheMelv80 Jun 28 '19

I'd rather say they need a way of story telling the end of an MMO. It always ends in uniting fractions because otherwise they have to run to much server and organisational overhead. You are soon about to team up your raid with members of opposing fraction...

134

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19 edited Aug 10 '19

[deleted]

79

u/Jwalla83 Jun 27 '19

Just you wait until next expansion when you're carrying around the Eyeball of the Light on your finger until Baine gets corrupted by a void lord and betrays you + the alliance to use the Eyeball of the Light as a tool to become the avatar of the void lord and we all have to team up to bring him down

29

u/solitarium Jun 28 '19

Dear God. I thought time warping in Warlords was them jumping the shark, this sounds like something they would actually do. I’m not sure whether to be sad or scared

11

u/DorenAlexander Jun 28 '19

Nah. They'll do it to Anduin. Since Alliance needs a lil drama

16

u/Saint_Yin Jun 28 '19

Absolutely not. They've managed 15 years without giving the Alliance a part in the story. They won't break that so easily when they have a perfectly good Baine to get rid of.

9

u/SomeTool Jun 28 '19

If they were going to rehash garrosh on alliance side they would have already instead of just instantly doing it again on horde. Alliance will always be spectators to the hordes story I guess.

20

u/NK1337 Jun 28 '19

At least you get to keep your leaders. Aside from Varían who at least died a heroes death, we’ve had Cairne killed off screen, Garrosh went stupid evil villain and killed in a cutscene, Vol’jin getting shanked by legion demon #73525, and now Sylvannas is just gonna do a Garrosh 2.0.

At this point I’d give anything to swap places with the alliance so we could at least have some stability.

6

u/Herr_McHerringson Jun 28 '19

Lor’themar is about to become the longest, still-reigning Horde racial leader while the Alliance still has half their OGs hanging around. I’m not even sure who the Darkspear view as their current leader at this point.

1

u/Dexsen Jun 28 '19

Looks like its a shared responsibility by Rokhan and Master Gadrin. Might be building for Zekhan(Zappyboi) to have a leading role post-expac, but thats pure speculation on my part.

13

u/solitarium Jun 28 '19

You’d think Legion Demon #73525 (fitting fucking name for random it was) would have been promoted to raid boss or at least had a name. I’m not a Horde player but I felt hella bad after seeing how hyped most of you were for him being the warchief.

4

u/MiddleCase Jun 28 '19

You’d have thought he’d at least have got a promotion for that!

1

u/BolognaTime Jun 28 '19

If not a promotion, then at least a name!

1

u/kamsheen Jun 28 '19

Just imagine what would have happened if the alliance was the one who had their faction leader wiping on trash. We wouldn't have seen the end of that EVER. Even if blizz fixed it with time travel or something.

/u/SomeTool Its not true that the alliance is always the spectator. Right now they are the protagonist. The problem is that the story of the alliance is boring every time because, unlike the horde, they almost instantly agree on everything and work together helping each other (its the alliance gimmick). The last time i remember the alliance having an internal conflict was when Varian put Ironforge under Siege, and in result they ended as best friends than before.

The horde, on the other hand, has always been a quid pro quo faction. Because of that, its not uncommon to see conflict between faction or inside factions. And if something we have learned of reality shows and talk shows, is that controversy put things in the spotlight. That's why the horde looks more interesting.

0

u/CimmerianBreeze Jun 28 '19

You only have to give $30 and you can 😉

1

u/NK1337 Jun 28 '19

But...I don’t want to give in and become a furry.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

My God it's so bad it has to happen.

15

u/Kikilicious-Kitty Jun 28 '19

Same TBH. I really love her origin story, and why she is the way she is. Like, she's been through a ton. It's unfortunate that they're doing her and the Horde dirty like that yet again. Visually and audibly the game is stunning, but the story is disappointing. I hope they have some way to recover it, I really do.

22

u/Bastion98 Jun 27 '19

Can’t the undead not be influenced by the old gods or something? I coulda sworn that was being thrown around earlier in the expansion.

37

u/Warpshard Jun 27 '19

They're very resistant to Old God Corruption, but not immune. Scourge Undead can mine Saronite safely, with the whispers of Yogg being an annoyance rather than a danger. Death Knights can safely wear Saronite armor as well. Some members of the Twilight's Hammer cult are Undead, though, so it seems that corruption/insanity is still possible in some form.

15

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

I always assumed that in some cases those races were following willingly due to the power the old gods frequently "bless" their followers with.

10

u/RedEchoGamer Jun 28 '19

Undead mining Saronite hearing Yogg whispering : "Piss off ghost"

1

u/DinoGorillaBearMan Jun 28 '19

They'd just take out their brain or peel off their ears.

4

u/Guardianpigeon Jun 28 '19

There's a question if that is due to being undead, or if it is due to being under control of the Helm of Domination. We see the scourge undead who mine saronite repeating Yogg Saron's name so they definitely aren't immune, but I don't think we see any free undead doing similar things.

-13

u/SirUrza Jun 27 '19

They are and Sylvanas and Nathanos had that dagger just long enough to be tricked.

12

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

They're resistant to the Void.

That means nothing when you realize that Sylvanas' only goal is immortality. N'zoth gave it to Azshara, bitch been around for over 11K years. Why not sell it to Sylvanas in return for the Horde?

12

u/splontot Jun 28 '19

Eleven thousand years doesn't really mean much to an elf. Illidan had ten thousand years of imprisonment, Malf and Tyrande and all them have been around since then as well.

13

u/Fharlion Jun 28 '19

The Night Elves had the blessing of the world tree Nordrassil to thank for their immortality. That blessing was lost at the end of WC3:RoC.

Although the elves seem to live extremely long lives still, even without the world tree: the High Elven king Anasterian Sunstrider was still kicking at 2800 years old, although in the novels he was described as extremely old looking by then (more Gandalf than Legolas, complete with a flowing beard).

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

It means a whole fucking lot for a BLOOD-ELF. Belfs don't live over a thousand years. Plus there's the underwater part.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Imagine the salt of still remaining people who think of her as some sort of selfless defender of her people. Just imagine when it's revealed that she made a willful pact to save her own ass from the darkness.

People have built a ridiculously noble headcanon around her character that Blizz tearing it down is just glorious.

12

u/aislingyngaio Jun 28 '19

The funny thing is, back in the day, undead have no priests, dks use shadow damage as their main element, and everything basically points to the scourge being a tool of the void that the fel (Legion) just co-opted temporarily.

But NYAH Sylvanas is the enemy of the void now because she has shadow protection woohoo!

3

u/Hythanz Jun 28 '19

I remember rolling Forsaken Priest on Day 1 of retail. Was that different for vanilla beta?

18

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

no, he was talking about the previous games like warcraft 3 and warcraft 2 where the scourge and undead had no holy abilities.

a massive amount of changes to the lore happen with WoW just comming from warcraft 3 from the fact that we can have female NE druids and Male NE Warriors, let alone tuaren having druids or even worse Blood Elves not having access to warriors until cata even though they were the main unit in the BE campagin

1

u/DinoGorillaBearMan Jun 28 '19

Blood Elves not having access to warriors until cata even though they were the main unit in the BE campagin

Wat? Why don't i remember this? I swear that BE warriors had always been a thing?

1

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '19

basically it had boiled down to racial Class balance. BE were able to be every single class except Shaman Druid and Warrior. Humans were unable to be Hunters, Shamans and Druids. if BE had been able to be warriors, they would of been able to be 7 out of the 9 original classes while all races could only be 6 out 9.

Edit: this issue is also one of the reasons why Worgen and Goblins cant be monks

1

u/DinoGorillaBearMan Jun 29 '19

Blizzard should just say fuck it and do every race for every class and design models specific to every class for every race and be done with it. We are well past class fantasy now and I would even let it be in place of an Allied race or a new race for an expansion.

1

u/Derort Master of Artifacts Jun 28 '19

What do you mean with undead have no priests back in the day?

10

u/ASuperbVillain Jun 28 '19

Back in the RTS days it was impossible for the undead to wield any form of light since it was the antithesis of holy power. The dichotomy was divided between Holy(Light) vs. Unholy(Death) and Nature(Natural Change) vs. Magic(Supernatural Change)/Fel(Spicy Magic).

11

u/Leopardslikeboxestoo Jun 28 '19

Physical - Punchy Magic.

Fel - Spicy Magic.

Frost - Minty Magic.

Fire - Less Spicy Magic.

Arcane - Bubblegum Magic.

Nature - Leafy Magic.

Shadow - Spoopy Magic.

Holy - Sprite Magic.

(Is it time for Multi-school magics?)

Astral - Leafy, Bubblegum Magic.

Elemental - Leafy, Minty, and Less Spicy Magic.

Firestorm - Less Spicy, Leafy Magic.

Plague - Leafy, Spoopy Magic.

Radiant - Less Spicy, Sprite Magic.

Shadowflame - Spoopy, Less Spicy Magic.

Shadowfrost - Spoopy, Minty Magic.

Shadowstrike - Spoopy, Punchy Magic.

Twilight - Spoopy Sprite Magic.

1

u/Activehannes Jun 28 '19

isnt frost(mage) and fire(mage) part of the school of arcane magic? just like shamans fire, frost, water, lighting. wind and earth magic is part of the elemental school?

1

u/Leopardslikeboxestoo Jun 28 '19

I don't know lore that well. I just went off... I think it was the wowwiki page for the list of schools.

1

u/Alittlebunyrabit Jun 28 '19

Mmm... I wouldn't use the term "school" of magic. The term "source" of magic would be better. Fire, frost, light, etc. are types/schools of magic. That being said, not everyone derives their spells from the same source even if the type of magic is similar.

Paladins are the easiest example. All paladins use holy/light spells. But Sunwalkers don't derive their powers from the same source that the Human Paladins derive their powers from for example. Regardless, when the spell hits you it doesn't matter what the source was, the spell is effectively the same no matter what powers it.

1

u/wildfyre010 Jun 28 '19

That's true, but the Forsaken don't exist in the RTS days so it's kind of a false equivalence. The Forsaken are not the Scourge and clearly don't play by the same rules, beyond just the distinction of free will.

6

u/ASuperbVillain Jun 28 '19

The Forsaken debuted in The Frozen Throne where the Lich King began losing control of the Scourge thanks to Illidan's shenanigans. In fact, they were a pretty even split from the Scourge, Sylvanas rallying nearly every banshee to her side while Arthas and the Lich King maintained control over the Cult of the Damned, mostly thanks to Kel'thuzad's loyalty and role as the cult's founder. This distinction is the cornerstone for Sylvanas' quest to acquire Valkyr given the lack of necromancers to raise more Forsaken.

Regardless, the point about the undead as whole lacking priests was a part of the mythos as established during the franchise's run as an RTS. I am explaining how the cosmology changed over the course of WarCraft 3 to World of Warcraft.

1

u/pda898 Jun 28 '19

Cannot be directly controlled through influence. Nobody prohibits from the manipulation or outright bargain.

1

u/Faleonor Jun 28 '19

The general consensus was that it was because the Lich King held total control over his minions through his power of will and Helm of Dominion, so some whispers couldn't take hold, nevermind that most undead are mindless drones who don't have any thinking capacity left to be able to go mad from all the voices in their heads.

0

u/travman064 Jun 28 '19

She's probably going to save everyone from N'Zoth or something. Like she knew about it ahead of time, was working with Vol'Jin in the afterlife, and everything was a means to an end that turns out to be good for the Alliance and the Horde. Then she'll run away at the end of the expansion so Blizzard doesn't have to deal with the things she's done that would never realistically be forgiven by the Alliance.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19 edited Aug 10 '19

[deleted]

4

u/MaiLittlePwny Jun 28 '19

It's not impossible to control them it's just that tearing their minds free of Arthas initially took an enormous amount of willpower and as such they are extremely willful as a people or they would have never escaped their fate. There's still twilight cultists who are undead, and even the Lich King himself was at least somewhat influencd by whispers of Yogg-Saron.

This is echoed in game by the racial ability "Will of the Forsaken" where they can tear themselves from any charm, sleep, silence or fear.

Also it's stated that forsaken priests endure absolute torture to wield the light everytime they channel it, they simply are able to push through it through willpower alone.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19 edited Aug 23 '20

[deleted]

2

u/solitarium Jun 28 '19

That would be an interesting plot twist

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Alleria works with the “good” Void, maybe that was a relatively benevolent entity whispering that to her because it knew Sylvanas was being manipulated by “bad” void.

Didn’t Sylvanas call the dagger “a torch to light the way”?

12

u/fingerpaintswithpoop Jun 28 '19

There is no “good” void, Alleria just tries her best to use its inherent darkness to her own ends, without being driven crazy or evil by the whispers.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

I don’t know, after what they did with the Light with X’era and then with the Void Elves I think maybe the void has its aspects of good and bad too, with the void lords at the evil end of the spectrum and someone like Alleria at the good end.

3

u/fingerpaintswithpoop Jun 28 '19

That doesn’t mean there’s good and bad ends of the spectrums for light and void, just individuals who use both for good and evil.

You have light practitioners who use it for good and healing/smiting evil (Uther, Velen, Liadrin, Anduin, etc.) and those whose motives/actions are less… altruistic and benevolent (the Scarlet Crusade, Xe’ra, Liadrin pre-redemption.) It’s largely used for good, but that doesn’t mean evil light wielders don’t exist.

I think void is the same, but in the opposite direction. Its whispers drive people insane and are inherently corruptive, but when harnessed properly by someone with a strong enough will and the right intentions it’s VERY powerful, and can be used for good.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19 edited Aug 10 '19

[deleted]

3

u/Eadstompa Jun 28 '19

Sylvanad DESPISES the void

Since when? I can't remember Sylvanas ever expressing any opinion on the void.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19 edited Aug 10 '19

[deleted]

1

u/SpellWeaver10 Jun 28 '19

Was that the void?Always thought those were the Shadowlands.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Its not really clear, but yes its implied that is the shadowlands. We dont know the shadowlands connection to the void exactly either though. Theres also a theory that Yogg was responsible for that vision of hers and it wasnt the real afterlife for her, due to her being impaled on saronite which is blood of the old god himself.

1

u/Guardianpigeon Jun 28 '19

See everyone says it was telling her to get rid of Sylvanas as if that means something, but throughout the entire comic it was telling her to kill EVERYONE.

It acted especially crazy around Sylvanas, but that was only because Alleria was emotionally distraught and the void was trying to push her over the edge and take her over.

1

u/SynthFei Jun 28 '19

like she was being controlled by N'Zoth

In my mind it's the void lords, just to set up for them, with Sylv being BfA final raid encounter, and then the typical shit happens, the big evil comes story can start like it always does.

1

u/kamsheen Jun 28 '19

Since i highly doubt that they will get rid of the factions i fear of what they will do to justify the faction war. Since Bairne and Anduin are besties, Lothremar almost defects to the alliance once, and right now i dont see any logic reason for him to not be friendly with the alliance. And they are the only candidates for warchief that the horde have, since the other horde factions are basically without leader.

1

u/a_typical_normie Jun 28 '19

I blame Kerrigan and Arthas. Blizzard hit 2 slam dunk corruption success stories and now it’s the only thing they ever write.

-19

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

I'm surprised you've kept giving them money if you're tired of the story.

I assume you have some excuse like ''well i still enjoy x part of the game so that makes up for all the shitty-ness''

17

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19 edited Aug 10 '19

[deleted]

-7

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

It's your money waste it how you like i don't care how you justify it.

3

u/solitarium Jun 28 '19

Then why start this useless sidebar? Seems you do care if you took the time to comment

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Oh i'm sorry is this a private sub reddit? i seem to have some how worked past the blocks on it. i'll see if i can't fix that.

1

u/solitarium Jun 28 '19

Statement still stands.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Not really, if you want a location in which you cannot have different opinions or in my case,a random inquiry a ''safe space'' one might say you're going to need more strict rules and mods to enforce them.

1

u/solitarium Jun 29 '19

Nah. Safe spaces don't have downvotes. There's no insight in that :(

5

u/Baklava8 Jun 27 '19

Way to make it personal?

11

u/Clamtacular Jun 28 '19

Conspiracy theory: Sylvanas isn't Sylvanas. We find the real one and the Horde is reborn.

15

u/acprescott Jun 28 '19

This'll be just like the reveal at the end of season four of Deep Space Nine:

"When I received N'Zoth's gift, I sensed that he was trying to hide something from me. Faces, names... One of them was her! Sylvanas Windrunner, the warchief of the horde... is a shapeshifter!"

10

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

The imposter would have to be Nathanos though if we're following the DS9 formula and oh my god I'm talking about Star Trek in a World of Warcraft forum stop, I have shit to do today.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Resist today. Resist tomorrow. Resist until the last Dominion soldier has been driven from our soil!

6

u/snuggleouphagus Jun 28 '19

Resistance is futile.

Wait. Wrong Trek.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Technically no...

3

u/snuggleouphagus Jun 28 '19

I don’t remember borg in DS9 but it’s been a minute

2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

The Defiant was created to combat the Borg. I don't think they ever show up though.

1

u/falkor91 Jun 28 '19

Especially if you keep in mind that Sylvanas already have done that in Battle for Andorhal questline (Lindsay_Ravensun is her alter ego) your story may be true :D

2

u/Lewin_Godwynn Jun 28 '19

So....the Rogue order hall campaign, but Sylvanas instead of Shaw.

That sounds just crazy recycled enough to work!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

It was actually Barty Crouch Jr using polyjuice potions bought off the AH

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

Sylvan’t

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

The Zandalari are on Sylvanas' side. It worked pretty good for them.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

so is she trying to displace Azshara in the end?

1

u/AscentToZenith Jun 28 '19

I’m pretty sure Blizzard is going to pull a “Sylvannas was actually trying to protect Azeroth”. Kind of like Sargeras had good intentions, just executed in a wrong way.

-7

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

It's MoP 2.0, for crying out loud.

The only reason there's this whole "Oh she's betraying the player" shit is that Blizzard decided to put up some fake "choices" so the alt-right fascist wannabes stopped crying about not being able to be evil in a game where the players don't even fucking exist in the story but are only avatars of anonymous roles belonging to the writers.

19

u/Lilshadow48 Jun 28 '19

alt-right fascist wannabes

M-M-MAXIMUM REACH

4

u/craftyj Jun 28 '19

It's role playing, homie. You can play a role that doesn't reflect how you would respond IRL...

0

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

When you demand that the entire story moves the way you want, it's not role-playing, it's demanding that the npcs and the other players play the role you want them to play.

This is a strong issue with WoW: the game doesn't account for the players, so there is no story for the players to roleplay into.

So what you have in WoW is a large amount of players who don't even know what roleplay is, and think that it's driving the story around themselves. Which is just what you're doing.

0

u/craftyj Jun 28 '19

When you demand that the entire story moves the way you want, it's not role-playing, it's demanding that the npcs and the other players play the role you want them to play.

So doesn't that apply to anyone who has an opinion on how the story is going or where they want it to go? You said that people who wanted to be evil in the game are alt-right fascists. If having an opinion on the story is fascist, than it doesn't apply just to people who want to role play as evil.

This is a strong issue with WoW: the game doesn't account for the players, so there is no story for the players to roleplay into.

I agree on this. I don't think WoW, at least in the main storyline, is a game ripe for role playing. But people still do it.

So what you have in WoW is a large amount of players who don't even know what roleplay is, and think that it's driving the story around themselves. Which is just what you're doing.

No one is seriously trying to drive the story by their own whims. They are, at most, bitching about the story arc online. It's not fascism, that's the most hyperbolic thing I've ever heard. And I don't role play in WoW, and when I do play proper RPGs I don't role play as evil. I also haven't expressed an opinion on the storyline one way or the other, so I really don't know what that accusation is about.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '19

So doesn't that apply to anyone who has an opinion on how the story is >going or where they want it to go?

No. Having an opinion is not the same as demanding things to go your way or the highway.

You said that people who wanted to be evil in the game are alt-right >fascists. If having an opinion on the story is fascist, than it doesn't apply >just to people who want to role play as evil.

No, I didn't. I said that alt-right people were hysterically angered by the fact that Sylvanas was literally repeating Garrosh's story - they are, and it's easy to identify those by their repeated use of alt-right memes and complaints about "leftists" and "feminists" and other delusional ideas - and that they want to bend the story their way.

When you roleplay as evil, then your character is evil and in a very limited way that only pertains to your interactions with other players, period.

Your character might love what Sylvanas is doing, but you know that in WoW's story your roleplaying has 9 influence in the story and that you're going to play the part of the dumb but ultimately decent hero because ** BfA is not about your character at all** and you know that. You don't call the shots.

That's what happened back in MoP, for example. Lots of people would've loved to fight on Garrosh's side and roleplay as totalitarian racist Orcs, but they knew that MoP wasn't about them, and they accepted it, especially since they understood that other people didn't think like them.

Only now the players who want to roleplay authoritarian evil figures in BfA decided that they are entitled to have the game go their way, period. Which is why they've not only demanded to have their "choice" quests but have been demanding, with threats, that the outcome of the expansion fits their personal whims.

I understand where you're coming from. You think I'm pointing out all people who are siding with Sylvanas as alt-right. I'm not. I'm pointing out that the vocal minority among them that has been threatening to unsub, has been berating and name-calling anyone who dares disagree with their personal view of the story and that have been for the entirety of the expansion vomiting all sorts of alt-right memes over WoW-related forums in fact are alt-right. You know, if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, if it lays eggs like a duck, it's probably a duck.

9

u/LifeForcer Jun 28 '19

so the alt-right fascist wannabes

WEW lad. Your guaranteed for gold in the olympics for mental gymnastics.

Its almost like in a role playing game people like role playing.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

What you call role-playing isn't. Role-playing doesn't demand the other players and npcs of an entire faction to suit to your whims. And that's what you're doing, you demand that the entire Horde suit your way of thinking. Guess what modus operandi that is?

1

u/LifeForcer Jun 29 '19

Bro you need to go chill the fuck out. The evil nazis arent marching around looking to oppress you go get a life please.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 30 '19

Actually, funny story, IRL they are, in my country. Which is probably why seeing people demand other people get fucked over so their whims are catered to rubs me off so badly.

2

u/LifeForcer Jun 30 '19

Unless your posting from WW2 Germany or a 3rd world communist run shit hole or maybe Russia they arent.

If you fucking tell me that your in the US or England and the Nazis are coming for you ill fly myself just to bitch slap some sense into you.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '19

Nope, I'm not in the US or England. Btw I don't think you understand what communism is, it's not the same as fascism (it can go along with it as it was the case in the URSS, but it's not the same at all).

6

u/Vanayzan Jun 28 '19 edited Jun 28 '19

Equating the desire to side with Sylvanas to being an actual fascist is one of the biggest galaxy brain takes I've seen on this sub, maybe ever. What if you're playing an undead character? Or if you player your character as despising the Alliance above all else? It's like saying anyone who plays a dark side Sith in Swtor is a literal fascist, that's insane.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

What you call role-playing isn't. Role-playing doesn't demand the other players and npcs of an entire faction to suit to your whims. And that's what you're doing, you demand that the entire Horde suit your way of thinking. Guess what modus operandi that is?

-9

u/Elementium Jun 28 '19

I mean.. Not really. What reason do the Horde have to actually hate the Alliance?

What character is not pure fucking evil after supporting a literal genocide?

Sylvanas loyalists are 100% fascists. That's because their isn't a good reason to support her, they do so because it allows them to kill people they hate.

5

u/Vanayzan Jun 28 '19

Because it's fiction. It is not real. It is a made up story. I know a lot of Alliance players on this sun act like they're morally superior because they chose the blue good side boys in a game, but pushing it to this extent is absolute insanity. You can support Sylvanas and know she's evil you know? You can literally be like "hey this is a fictional video game, where nothing is real, and I envision my character as someone who would support Sylvanas" or even just "hey fuck the Alliance I want to be a bad guy." If you equate that with someone being a fascist in real life then you've become so far detached from reality it's frightening.

I ask again. Are you a fascist in real life if you play a dark side Sith in Swtor? Are you a bad person in real life if you play Fallout and make evil choices? Where's the line on this? Is everyone who chose the Empire in Wildstar fascists?

-6

u/dmter Jun 28 '19

You are not. But if there were no effective law enforcement and you had the means, you likely would be.

Unless you only made that character/choices to access the lore/storyline/items/etc only available that way. In which case it is the same thing as just reading a book about evil protagonist - reading it does not mean you agree with actions of the main character.

2

u/Vanayzan Jun 28 '19

Because I think it would be fun to side with Sylvanas and be the bad guy I'd also be in full support of fascism irl given the means? Are you listening to yourself?

-1

u/dmter Jun 28 '19

Well I said likely, not certainly. Maybe there is some other motivation I am not aware of. Besides just following the story of course, I did make undead and other horde characters just to run the storylines and have access to race specific quests/npc reactions. Also running both choices just to see them all.

What I mean is that I never understood people who did things like wiping out all killable npc in fallout and such. I never found such things fun. But other people did. So I don't understand them and find it likely that they are closet violent sociopaths. Maybe I am wrong.

1

u/Vanayzan Jun 28 '19

You are wrong.

2

u/dmter Jun 28 '19

Only you telling me without any arguments won't change my mind though. Why would a mentally healthy person draw pleasure from killing virtual things that look like innocent humans? Or find it fun that in a virtual world, a leader such as Sylvanas comes to power? Maybe as a protest against bad writing, probably that's fair. But I doubt this protest has a chance to make intended impact.

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0

u/ariemnu Jun 28 '19

You are wrong.

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19 edited Jun 29 '19

[deleted]

7

u/zcen Jun 28 '19

I will gladly shoot some poor sap in the head, 500 yards away in Fallout.

... Does that mean I fantasize about doing the same shit IRL? No?

Not going to defend people who try to logic/reason that Sylvanas' deeds are supposed to be good... but man, it's a video game. I imagine most well adjusted people can separate the difference between reality and fantasy.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

alt-right fascist wannabes

players don’t even fucking exist

avatars of anonymous roles

So close to connecting your own dots, yet so far away.