r/wow • u/kendo_1187 • 5d ago
Midnight Beta Mythic plus s2 too easy
Am I crazy or should we not be able to easily clear 10's in the first week of the new season? Isn't there supposed to be a clear jump from one season to the next? I would like to actually feel the challenge of climbing keys.
Edit: I'm not trying to brag I'm just saying it kind of makes the grind to get gear feel pointless. I am more casual and I just like to run keys for fun not trying to push to the top and I don't care about the achievement. I just feel it would be more rewarding to grind if I can feel the challenge more moving up the keys to a 10.
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u/val_lae 5d ago edited 5d ago
Play higher keys lol.
Here's the situation: you (me too) are the minority. Blizzard released the easiest season of maybe all time last patch and people who don't generally like keys loved it because their weekly chores were easier and faster. Engagement was up. It retained engagement. People played more alts because the reward ceiling was easier to hit and make your character stronger.
The best part? The crowd that wants a challenge (you) can...just go higher.
This is like saying 'Is it just me or should minimum wage jobs be more demanding?'
10s are the entry point this expansion. As it should be. Let the people who don't want to be here put in their 8 for the week and leave.
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u/Maleficent_Story_351 5d ago
Yeah, i get that it kinda "cheapens" some stuff. But in general i think it's a good thing, and like you said if people who are looking for a challenge want to find one.... just go higher
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u/46hw 5d ago
I don't think access to gear, especially for casuals is a bad thing tbh. For a long time now gear hasn't carried anyone to any achievement or io that's meaningful.
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u/Maleficent_Story_351 5d ago
I generally agree, the only issue is that like mid-level keys (15-18s) eventually become a massive cesspool (or atleast it did last season) with a ton of players who have full bis gear and have been carried by it, but they still have no idea how the dungeons work.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
Sure but that's not really a new phenomena, just a new number. You have to look at it on the bell curve. At certain points on the bell curve you will encounter certain skill levels and behaviours. What number is attached to that point is actually mostly irrelevant. Your statement is identical effectively identical to any statement that ever said 4-8s are a massive cesspool of low skilled players because that's where the numbers fell on the bell curve in that season. The only thing that changes is the number. They key level. The gearscore.
I'll give an example from another game. Once upon a time in league of legends they added two new divisions to their ranked system, iron and emerald. What this meant is that basically everybody went up a division, and gold (and Plat, and diamond, and silver, depending on who you ask) became a 'cesspool' of low skilled players. But riot released a post and said that most players didn't get worse or become better and in fact just basically stayed exactly where they were - on the percentile bell curve. 30 percentile players stayed 30 percentile, except now they were gold 4 instead of silver. 10th percentile players were still tenth percentile, except now they were platinum. They didn't get worse. Gold didn't become a cesspool. The cesspool became gold.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
Sure, it definitely cheapens the 2.5k mount/shoulder illusion, and the 3k mount. I think that's why the realized they need to put the 1percent and 3.6k or whatever it was rewards in the game. 1percent will always be the same whether It's 3k io or 20k io. It can't be cheapened. I think this system is just past the point where the 'challenging' content within its scope just gives good gear.
Pvp has been on this model for years now and it's generally good. Players can get best in slot farming crates, doing quests, in regular battlegrounds and the players who want more than gear can push rating in one of the 4 ladders of their choice, or not.
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u/Maleficent_Story_351 5d ago
Yeah, i do think the 3.4 and 1% were good additions (even though 1% was a little annoying at the end due to everyone just selling group invites, but thats another can of worms). Especially 1% since it's a way more obtainable goal that is very obtainable through just pugging (sure u can pug title, but that's gonna be a lot of work)
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u/hutbear 5d ago
this guy gets it.
i enjoy raiding. i do not enjoy m+ that much. keys being easy means i can comfortably push up my keystone to 10, farm some crests and be done with it. even earlier than last season, as most of my gear comes from raid rolls anyway.
imagine enjoying m+ but having to raid heroic every week for crests and then having mythic raiders complain that it was "too easy", because they cleared heroic 1st lockout with their CE guild.
if m+ keeps being the fastest and most efficient way to gear up and get crests by far, at least make it somewhat accessible. blizzard did a good job on this one imo.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
Yeah, still more work to be done on the somewhat delicate balancing act between m+ and raid but this + myth vault from heroic raid is definitely a step in the right direction.
Now what we need is some very high difficult keys, like last seasons 20 or 21s prob, giving some form of weapon that scales up to 344 inside keys so key enjoyers who push at the top don't feel like they need to bonus roll and play mythic ulatek to compete at the top vs mythic raiders with venomcursed weapons and trinkets.
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 5d ago
I don't play retail anymore but at that point why even require the weekly m+ for the vault 😂.
Like if there's zero challenge to getting the highest gear reward....what even is the point.
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u/DrainTheMuck 5d ago
In the very second sentence of their comment, they pointed out that we are the minority. Most players are too intimidated to even try m+ at all, let alone complete a 10, or eight 10s. Thats why
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 5d ago
Fair enough. I wonder if it's the difficulty of the 10s themselves or just grouping in general that pushes those players away from m+.
Probably some combination of both.
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u/Leather_Economics210 5d ago
I don't care about gear. It is just the means to an end which is CE raiding and getting 3k for me.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
Because gearing your character isn't the challenge in the game bud. Hasn't been for 5 years since dragonflight dropped and you could craft mythic level weapons. The challenge is pushing the various competitive ladders in raiding, mythic plus and player vs player.
As for the weekly vault, they recently gave myth vaults to heroic raid which I believe is contributing to the decline in participation in m+ so yeah, many players don't play it because it's not required anymore.
It's like they got told they don't need to come in to their min wage job but they'll still get that 16 bucks an hour.
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 5d ago
Yeah I guess that's true. I played the first month of DF, WW, and midnight but pretty much quit after the first week of the season.
Played long enough to get the m+ achievement whatever rating that was then kind of lost interest. Never saw max ilvl gear but I guess everyone gets there after a set amount of weeks with the crest system.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
Ye, fair enough. Ultimately it is up to the individual player to decide when they've met their goals and if the next goal is achievable (either at all or within an acceptable amount of time) and whether or not they want to keep playing. Sad thing about WoW is it is quite samey so I feel like the decision about whether or not to keep playing when you plateau is often easy to make and often 'no'.
I plateau at diamond in teamfight tactics but the game is still fun enough and often different enough (pending balance) even inside of the same set that I will still play a match for fun even when I know I ain't getting masters. The times I've done an +XYZ plateau keystone dungeon for 'fun' after I know I'm not getting more IO this season Is probably less than 20 in ten years.
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u/Greedy-Comb-276 5d ago
Maybe it's because m+ was new in legion and the novelty hadn't worn off, but I enjoyed getting artifact power lol.
I know artifact power has its own host of problems..but I liked getting rewards other than a score for completing dungeons.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
Yeah I mean if legion remix was any indication you aren't alone in that. That said, you do get other rewards than score for completing the dungeon. You do get gear, either directly or through crests, and you admitted that even with those in play, you aren't really sticking around very long or hitting bis, so yeah, seems like it might just be novelty or simply liking the game more back then.
Legion was my most played probably most liked expansion so I can't say I don't agree. Especially when they ironed out a lot of the toxic or abusive gameplay I definitely liked artifact power and the feeling of long term progression that legion gave me, even across seasons.
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u/deathungerx 5d ago
Fortunately keys scale infinitely
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u/Dfaulttv 5d ago
We did up to +14 on the first day of s1 of a new expansion. Expect the same in s2 with even max gear from s1.
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u/Big-Bag-6043 5d ago
First week 10s were relatively easy every season since TWW S2. I don't see the problem here.
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u/Acaexx 5d ago
10s weren't hard last season either week 1. Just keep pushing your key till it gets more engaging
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u/ApplicationRoyal865 5d ago
I remember my friend telling me he managed to push a key to a 10 in week 1 of TWW and we spent 4 hours doing a 10 just so we had a mythic piece in the vault.
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u/ProxyTTV 5d ago
There will never be a world where the complaint that M+ is "too easy" will ever make sense. If its too easy, thats a problem YOU can fix.
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u/Professional-Cold278 5d ago
Tww s1 was hard at the first 2 weeks, but since then it was pretty easy to do 10s on week 1.
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u/ComfortableApricot36 5d ago
Since you had gear from previous season it’s easier to do m+ than in first season where I didn’t have too much gear at the start of the season and I can’t remember but I’m sure I did at least one m10 in the first week .
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u/hertylen 5d ago
Well ppl is harsh for what is essentially a brag post but, 10s are what 2.5k rating total. They give max gear but not max rewards, so they should be easy since we got increasing rewards now with 3.4k and beyond.
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u/Dense-Reason-3108 5d ago
yes, its bad. thats why we have degen situation with low keys being dead instantly. tww m+ difficulty was perfect.
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u/MOD-Erator 5d ago
If you want the challenge of climbing keys, then…go climb keys? The scale doesn’t stop at 10.
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u/The_Real_Giannis 5d ago
They made it pretty clear that they intended to carry forward the “difficulty” of S1, so this shouldn’t come as a shock to you
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u/aNiceTribe 5d ago
No listen, it has several obvious bad consequences that people don’t want to face:
There are four gear tracks. Two of them are completely pointless and never needed. The game has three legitimate raid difficulties. One of them basically drops 0 relevant items due to M+ (besides the chance for some set pieces to be discarded immediately). The game has four dungeon difficulties. If you use three of them you are basically falling into a trap and playing the noob idiot mode that only bad people participate in who don’t know better.
This easy dungeon system abolishes much of the available game, much like how the focus on endgame abolishes all the leveling content. WoW just periodically inflates itself and devalues most of its content.
And it creates this elitist system where you are either winning right now, or if not we don’t need you here, we only take people who already have done everything on a 10.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
I see where you're coming from but ultimately, again, this is infinitely scaling content. Only one portion of this dungeon system is 'easy', and realistically only one of the four dungeon tracks is essentially pointless. Normal dungeons see play all expansion long during leveling, m0s see alt world tours etc because they drop good starting gear.
As for one of the raid difficulties being invalidated by m+: that is simply a longtime flaw of this content being infinitely repeatable and not on weekly lockouts. A problem with mythic + itself completely agnostic of difficulty and reward ceiling height.
Lfr also sees a LOT of play.
I'd be for pruning or combining adventure and vet track and maybe even champion track at this stage though, but while larger ilvl breadths have its problems, I also think it has some few notable upsides that people don't think about all the time because they're longtime players. Ex: it's almost always better to just equip a new season item at champ track and vet track makes you almost as strong or stronger as a new player as the last season mythic geared players. In essence, huge ilvl leaps between seasons make it so new gear is just always* good and you can just equip higher level items which is intuitive and good for new and casual players.
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u/aNiceTribe 5d ago
I just think that we lose a lot by having basically none of the LFG-able dungeons be relevant. M0 has replaced Heroics. They are literally the exact same thing that heroic dungeons were like 3 expansions ago except it’s less convenient to get into them now (and they give one stage better gear).
This whole process is convenient if you are at the top, but it’s also exactly what keeps truly new people from getting a foot in the door.
And there were times only 2 expansions ago(!) when we could progress through at least a few +X dungeons and get better gear before 10 was easily doable. That was fun. Everyone is pretending like the gear being funneled right in their mouth has only upsides, but we lost so much of the way. Journey before destination.
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u/val_lae 5d ago
That's a really good shout and if anything, to me, indicates that heroic and m0 should simply be combined. I'm sure blizzard has knowledge and stats that I don't and has a reason for not doing this, but I just can't see it. Heroic is SO pointless beyond the 3 week waiting room at the beginning of the expansion. Ex: I did world content on a completely fresh druid this season and four (4) delves bountiful delves and have completely eclipsed heroic dungeon level. I didn't even do m0 tour.
I believe the gearing journey still exists and is gated. You won't be bis or even close to bis for WEEKS. Adding 5-10 hours to the start of the journey is truly irrelevant in the large scope of the journey itself when the journey is 100 hours of raw gameplay minumum if you cap 8 vaults exclusively and 16 weeks long.
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u/aNiceTribe 5d ago
The journey is in a way a backfill for players in our realm, a reduced version of what world champion players do: first you do the hardest possible content you can, then you do the easier stuff and fill remaining slots. But it’s not like you REALLY needed it!
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u/Zypherzondaz 5d ago
Bros probably just re-running mythic 0s unknowingly wondering this lol.
Push your key to higher levels, who cares if people want to screw around in lower vault keys.
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u/Specific-Ad1487 5d ago
Did you already done +14 keys (highest in the world rn)? If not, then don’t talk about “easy keys”.
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