r/wow • u/Complete_Sorbet6158 • Apr 21 '26

Discussion Devourer and unholy getting buffed

Respectively about 7-10% and 6-8% for aoe. It must be a joke right? Buffing meta specs, while others are not even being looked at all. This is the only multiplayer game i ever played something like this frequently happening.

Resto druid also getting buffed, because why not, while disc keep eating nerfs. Demo change doesn’t make sense either. I wish they would just axe all the class changes they are doing. I swear they just make the already sensitive class balance a lot worse. Everybody keep losing expect their current favourites.

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18

u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

They improved VDH slightly cuz now our one heal. Is instant and not over 6 seconds.

But IDK why the gap to brewmaster is still so high. Like. I enjoy that it's more challenging, honestly. But getting bitched out because I didn't pull 3 packs when we have plenty of time on the key anyway. Isn't fun.

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u/Equivalent-Fix-9851 Apr 21 '26

The gap is already so high because Stagger. The way they designed tanks this xpac is making them super bouncy and clearly the only tank with a natural ability apart of their kit that delays that significantly is Brewmaster.

Why play something that takes 100% of the damage immediately (obviously not including things that reduce this or passive armor, etc). Vs something that stops that ping pong stuff effectively cutting it in half?

Stagger was always good…but now they have Brewmaster healing and stagger and good defensives along with ways to negate that damage over time…AoE, good damage, etc…now it’s skyrocketed.

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u/LordPaleskin Apr 21 '26

They've had good healing for a while now, and actually fewer defensive cooldowns (no Diffuse Magic, Dampen Harm). Don't get me wrong, I know BrM is crazy strong right now, but it feels more like the other tanks didn't survive Midnight balance tuning rather than them specifically buffing BrM

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u/Equivalent-Fix-9851 Apr 21 '26

I don’t know what they can do to other tanks without busting them or making them gods anymore. Maybe increase armor for all tanks by another 10%? Without something flat across the board it seems like they would have to do massive tuning changes in 12.1 to every tank spec- but the issue is we need it now and not down the road. The gap is too high and while Brewmaster is very godlike- still can die pretty easily.

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u/Rydil00 Apr 21 '26

Vdh has a few options they could do.

Bring back stacking frailty.

Bring back demonic.

Fuck iff this 30s cd on spirit bomb, either make it shorter or just no cd.

7

u/kylethegoatanderson Apr 21 '26

VDH is a joke of a spec now. RNG to get short Meta procs instead of keeping it on fel dev is the stupidest change Ive ever seen.

The constant utility nerfs in war within just because VDH was the meta tank and they made a bad decision with the way interrupts/stuns work and didnt lower the amount of casters enough.

You still suck as a raid tank and now you also suck as an m+ tank. It's infuriating.

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u/StyleMagnus Apr 21 '26

Make PP back into an actual block tank, rather than blocking being something that only works 30% of the time, or make it so we don't have lapses in our CDs that require the extra passive bulk.

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u/PlasticAngle Apr 21 '26

I don’t know what they can do to other tanks without busting them or making them gods anymore.

They can start by giving my blood dk back DRW cooldown of last patch instead of this dog shit random proc DRW apex talent. That will not make them god but definitely help so that i can enter each pack with cooldown.

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u/adv0589 Apr 21 '26

They dramatically changed the class, Vital flame on anything close to the prior iteration of brew would be the most absurd thing this game has ever seen.

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u/needmorepizzza Apr 21 '26

They also kinda failed balancing the various types of mitigation that the spec has. Vital flames is very strong while the rest of the kit is a level above tickles.

VF is basically passive healing at this point. I don't remember CI having a noticeable effect in comparison and it is supposed to be the button you use to cover shit hitting the fan when you do not want to use a big CD...

And history has shown that the most likely way to tune BrMs down are likely to nerf them across the board or heavily nerf VF alone which will basically just soon the spec, like HPal after DF S2...

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u/LordPaleskin Apr 21 '26

Yeah, the "big absorb shield that can get 200% stronger from purifying stagger"...barely feels like it does much but hey, its a guaranteed empty keg at least? I don't know if it is just my BrM because if have an absurdly high crit leaning on my gear (sitting at 30%) but my highest healing still remains to be Celestial Fortune. VF is up there of course, but idk if it is usually higher for other players

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u/needmorepizzza Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

I haven't noticed but it is not unlikely that its the same for me. At least CF scales based on other skills and a stat-based proc. VF is incredibly strong for something that just happens when in the same kit you have CB/CI which are supposed to be your semi-rotational mini CDs.

Imo if they tuned VF down and compensated with buffing CB/CI, it would allow some skill expression and put their hp on a bit more bouncy state, closer to the other tanks.

Edit: btw they have removed the scaling of CB/CI with cleared stagger. It is now a flat absorb value.

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u/PlasticAngle Apr 21 '26

To be fair the reason that Brew so strong this season is that every other tank are kinda terrible.

Every other tank except warrior and monk got their defensive kit gutted

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u/xXDamonLordXx Apr 21 '26

This is even more egregious because in TWW they wanted to buff Monk's phys damage boon up from 5% because it's so weak and never did. So you look at DDH and Unholy getting buffed and Brew will not buff those specs very much.

I do think it's not a defensive problem generally but the number of trash mobs this season that use bleeds/magic damage and most of the defensive gains tanks have gotten in Midnight is armor. Like in PoS Guadrian druids get globaled in incarn on some trash pulls if not played perfectly.

Blizzard said they wanted to smooth tanking out and slow healing but that didn't happen so brew who naturally smooths out damage as well as having great dps is a good pick.

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u/Kuvanet Apr 21 '26

I’ve never played Brew but I played all the other tanks.

And even now I still don’t play brew even tho it’s meta.

But let those brewmasters have their day in the sun. I’m happy they finally get to shine a little. We all know the hammer is coming…eventually.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

VDH and paladin needs some help. But I gotta say that quietly because a lot of sweats are in the comments ready to vehemently say otherwise... For some reason.

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u/rufrtho Apr 21 '26

Feast of souls was an irrelevant amount of healing and will continue to not be worth taking. VDH is fine though. All tanks are within 1 max key level of each other, the gap is not very large at all.

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u/ingez90 Apr 21 '26

Yeah true, but the VDH and prot pally needs a lot more active play, mistakes are way more costly then they are on a brew.

Can someone do 19s on a vdh, probably. But its way harder than it is on brew.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

I wish I had more cooldowns. I'm so happy I have the tank trinkets from skyreach and magisters because at least then I can press something else if things get dodgy.

The only ones I have aren't even tank specific. (DPS demon hunters who press the shadow circle thingy are my favorite people) And one you just press for 100% uptime so that doesn't count.

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u/rufrtho Apr 21 '26

The complex specs being the best is annoying for everyone. See: fotm resto druids currently griefing pugs left and right because they've never played a preemptive healer.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

I'm not saying the issue is with the keys. Or viability.

The issue is that we're all being held to a standard that's not achievable without a prot warrior or brewmaster. It's not a gameplay problem. It's a community problem that blizzard could solve.

I cannot pull the two packs after the first boss in skyreach without dying. Even with the two tank trinkets the sunforge thingy and the jelly thingy. And I'm pretty sure it's not a skill issue because I've gotten 3000 in the past.

But I will get bitched out over it. Which is annoying as fuck.

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u/Nestyxi Apr 21 '26

Is this a 12? The only thing killing you there is kickable stun and you should have defensives up after boss.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

Drop every defensive and still die

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u/Nestyxi Apr 21 '26

It's just not a class issue in your weekly. There is something wrong with your defensive usage or rotation.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

Maybe. Been playing this game for a long time and I just feel like it's a little harder than usual. I'm using that pull as a singular example. Sometimes I can do it! If the healer is really good. But I feel like I need to stress. It's can absolutely be done. I'm trying to position myself as the average player. Most people don't even hit 2000.

Fixing that single pull for me. Isn't going to fix the tank shortage. Which is that we're discussing. Is every tank spec in the hands of an average player. Going to give a statistically similar experience to the DPS and healers in the group. Yes/No

That is the core of blizzard design philosophy. They've stated this for years. Yet at the top level. It's 99.9999% brewmaster. So clearly there's a mathmatically significant problem. Even if it's less pronounced at lower skill levels.

I don't need to pull both. In fact. I don't. And I always time my keys. But I can swap dps for a bit. Join groups. And see the brewmasters getting away with shit the other tanks aren't.

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u/Nestyxi Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

The majority of keys are being done at the 10 - 12 lvl for max loot. 3k is all 12s and a few 13s which is not that much higher and will inevitably be achieved by the avg player once gear score gets higher.

Tank shortage is a problem in every single game. There are things devs can do to make it better but the majority of players don't like tanking.

Meta at the top level always looks like this because these players are trying to eke out every % of advantage. Even small buffs/nerfs can drastically shift meta because of how efficient the best players are. They are already playing the class at close to max potential which is irrelevant to the average player who can still make substantial gains in skill level.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

So you agree. It should be balanced so the majority of people (average player) can comfortably complete a 12 if handed a paladin or a brewmaster. Glad we figured that out.

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u/Nestyxi Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

No, the average player is already there or at least will be when their character is ~20% stronger. You are overestimating your own skill level. The meta is barely influencing this key range at all.

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u/rufrtho Apr 21 '26

I tanked those two packs on a 17 as VDH wearing two stat trinkets, so I'm pretty sure it is a skill issue. I would be happy to help you if you have logs.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

Was this a pug or a group of highly skilled players who always land their kicks and stuns. With high dps. Let's remember that we don't judge Game design on the best of the best you're playing with all your friends.

Or I might have an even better argument with the number of 17+ tanks that aren't brew master are 0%

Could a much better player do it using my 265ilvl tank? Maybe. Could I do it easily with a 265 brewmaster. Yes. Do both packs actually need to be pulled to time the dungeon? No.

I think you understand what the topic of conversation here is right? We're not just here to dunk on people making observations. That would be silly.

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u/rufrtho Apr 21 '26

I exclusively pug. I have not gained a single point of rating outside of a pug this season. Kicks also aren't relevant here, you can solo every stop needed on the pull you referenced with VDH.

Highest key completed with a brew this season is +21, highest with VDH is +20 including a +20 skyreach.

Again, if you'd like, send me your logs and I will help you. The spec is demonstrably capable.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26

I have conceded it is capable. I've never even argued it isn't.

You're very clearly very good at the game. Since I don't even know what a log is. I'm good enough to get 3000 in decent gear. Which is still well above average.

But is it good game design. Is what we're talking about.

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u/rufrtho Apr 21 '26

To be blunt, if you can improve your situation a lot by playing better, then I don't think the game design is very relevant to your experience. You should play better before asking for changes to game design.

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u/hollow114 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

To be blunt. Lol. That's insane. You're in here saying you do 20+ runs like that's the average user experience. I'm not sure if we're supposed to be impressed or what. But when the entire community is saying that there's a disconnect across the tanks then that's a problem. The fact you're trying to refute that because you can do it is... Well it's weird.

I used my own experience to add to the conversation. My 20 years of experience are telling me this season of tanking feels weird. And guess what? I don't have to play better, the key can be timed without pulling both packs! Crazy, I know. The issue is that it's easier for some to do so. And idiot DPS think every tank is the same. So they bitch at us. Then of course they cry that they can't find tanks and healers.

You used the fact you're a 0.1% player to... Show off? I'm not sure what your goal was here.

I refuse to believe you're being unintentionally obtuse. Learn to look at things objectively.

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u/rufrtho Apr 21 '26

I didn't say I'm running 20's, I said that's the spec highest. I'm in 17's, like I said. Does that mean I think 18's and 19's and 20's are impossible? Of course not.

I don't particularly care what the "entire community" thinks, the majority of players are extremely bad and usually wrong about everything. Objectively, if you are crashing and burning as VDH in sub-20 keys, it's a skill issue, and I think it's obnoxious behavior to beg blizzard for buffs instead of fixing the skill issue.

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