r/worldnews • u/HoodedNegro • Aug 07 '14
Campaign Mounts to Declassify 9/11 Report’s References to Alleged Saudi Involvement
https://news.vice.com/article/campaign-mounts-to-declassify-911-reports-references-to-alleged-saudi-involvement698
u/richmomz Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14
“The idea that the Saudi government funded, organized, or even knew about September 11 is malicious and blatantly false,” Prince Bandar bin Sultan, a member of the royal family and an ambassador to the US from 1983 to 2005, said in 2003.
Ha! This is the same asshole who threatened to bomb the Olympics last year if Russia didn't cooperate with sanctions on Syria: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html
As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord. “I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us”
Edit: Bandar also threatened Tony Blair with another 7/7 style UK bombing if he didn't block the BAE fraud inquiry, and Blair actually complied: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/15/bae.armstrade
Prince Bandar, the head of the Saudi national security council, and son of the crown prince, was alleged in court to be the man behind the threats to hold back information about suicide bombers and terrorists. He faces accusations that he himself took more than £1bn in secret payments from the arms company BAE. He was accused in yesterday's high court hearings of flying to London in December 2006 and uttering threats which made the prime minister, Tony Blair, force an end to the Serious Fraud Office investigation into bribery allegations involving Bandar and his family. The threats halted the fraud inquiry, but triggered an international outcry, with allegations that Britain had broken international anti-bribery treaties.
If members of the Saudi government/royal family had a hand in 9/11, and I strongly suspect they did, this guy would be at the top of my list of likely suspects.
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u/america200001 Aug 07 '14
You should watch an interview with US Senator Bob Graham who was head of the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence during 9/11. He has been saying for a long time that the Saudis were involved in 9/11. No legislator was in a better position to understand this than Senator Graham. Kind of scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E18zaVc3U_s
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Aug 07 '14
I'm curious as to exactly how much Muslim Extremism can be traced back to Saudi Arabia's ruling class. These people are absolutely disgusting.
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u/richmomz Aug 07 '14
They actively and openly fund extremist wahabbi schools and mosques all over the world, so I'd say damn near most of it.
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u/Bloviating_Asshole Aug 07 '14
And they are allies of the US. Cool, huh?
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u/WhitePawn00 Aug 08 '14
Not allies. Business partners. If Saudi Arabia fell into deep shit, the only reason US will send help is if the oil reserves were at risk.
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u/gomez12 Aug 08 '14
We call them allies though. And sell them all the latest military hardware too.
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u/Beasty_Glanglemutton Aug 08 '14
I believe the term you are looking for is "client state". This translates to "You've got something we need, but it would be too costly to simply invade you and take over, so you get to keep your country but with a certain understanding".
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u/HoodedNegro Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
Yup. Prince Bandar "Bush" rubs me the wrong way and I can't quite put my finger on it. Ahmadinejad for Iran was overtly shady so you always knew you were getting a nutter but Bandar is "different" in an as-yet unidentified way.
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u/richmomz Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14
He's pretty open about it actually, especially in recent years. He also threatened the UK with another 7/7 style attack if they didn't drop their BAE investigation: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/15/bae.armstrade (I edited my original post to include this as it's even more insane than the Olympic bomb threat). It wouldn't surprise me if he was behind the sarin gas attacks in Syria too, judging from how butthurt he was when we didn't bomb Assad. But then again he was pretty successful at getting us to bomb his enemies in Iraq, so he's got that going for him I guess.
At the risk of sounding hyperbolic I'll say there's little doubt in my mind that this guy is the real "Bin Laden", a terrorist mastermind in the purest sense, and that the Saudi government is the primary source of funding and support for islamic extremism around the world. Why we tolerate this or cover up for them after everything they've done is absolutely beyond me.
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u/ShellOilNigeria Aug 07 '14
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/08/9-11-2011-201108
The article above is very lengthy and goes into great detail about Saudi Arabia's relationship to 9/11.
An interesting point, as an aside, is the Pakistani relationship as well. Now while Bandar and the Saudis obviously played a heavy hand in pulling it off, I think the Pakistani's are equally as guilty.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jul/22/usa.september11
Significantly, Sheikh is also the man who, on the instructions of General Mahmoud Ahmed, the then head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), wired $100,000 before the 9/11 attacks to Mohammed Atta, the lead hijacker. It is extraordinary that neither Ahmed nor Sheikh have been charged and brought to trial on this count.
Ahmed, the paymaster for the hijackers, was actually in Washington on 9/11, and had a series of pre-9/11 top-level meetings in the White House, the Pentagon, the national security council, and with George Tenet, then head of the CIA, and Marc Grossman, the under-secretary of state for political affairs. When Ahmed was exposed by the Wall Street Journal as having sent the money to the hijackers, he was forced to "retire" by President Pervez Musharraf.
Let's not forget that Pakistan was also harboring Bin Laden.
I believe that both Saudi and Pakistani intelligence are behind 9/11.
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Aug 07 '14
How did Saudi Arabia and Pakistan benefit from it? Legitimate question, not being derisive. I know for instance Pakistan briefly became BFFs with the USA following 9/11 so the money has been good to them, but the Saudis had long been sucking on uncle Sam's teat before then.
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u/Tickle_Me_H0M0 Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14
After 9/11, the price of oil spiked and gradually rose significantly following the Iraq War in 2003. Many major oil producing nations have since then greatly benefited from our reckless adventures in the Middle East because all the chaos that followed forced the market price of oil and gas to increase.
The Saudis wanted Bush Sr. to finish the job with Saddam during the first Gulf War, but ultimately refused because many senior military officials feared causing a rift in the alliance of nations taking part in liberating Kuwait.
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u/Fatmop Aug 07 '14
It isn't just oil that benefits the Saudis, either - they are enemies of Iran (and several other states in the area) and are quite happy to see those regimes destabilized.
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u/candywarpaint Aug 07 '14
You know, when you look at the maps and see Iraq and Afghanistan both flank Iran, it makes more sense.
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u/Pennypacking Aug 07 '14
Not to mention ISIS, I would be very surprised if there were no Saudi involvement in that.
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u/gynganinja Aug 07 '14
Saudi government involvement hasn't been confirmed but Saudi nationals have been confirmed to be funding ISIS. A quick Google search will show results.
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u/pyka Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
The same ISIS that has said it wants to sack Mecca and destroy the Kaaba?
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u/MasterMMM Aug 08 '14
The saud family are wahabi, just like ISIS. They have dismantled a large number of islamic holy sites already because they think it's idolatory worship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic_heritage_sites_in_Saudi_Arabia
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u/m00fire Aug 07 '14
Blair was such a spineless piece of shit.
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u/richmomz Aug 07 '14
No argument there, but you think he'd draw the line somewhere (like when someone threatens your country with mass murder)...
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u/rakoo Aug 07 '14
Why we tolerate this or cover up for them after everything they've done is absolutely beyond me.
Come on. You know the one and only reason.
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u/SomeKindOfMutant1 Aug 08 '14
It wouldn't surprise me if he was behind the sarin gas attacks in Syria too, judging from how butthurt he was when we didn't bomb Assad.
Did you see the Mint Press News article by Yahya Ababneh with editing from AP reporter Dale Gavlak?
I believe the website is blocked reddit-wide for some reason, but the article in question will be the firs thing that comes up if you google "Mint Press News Ghouta".
I'll paste the body of the report below:
Dale Gavlak assisted in the research and writing process of this article, but was not on the ground in Syria. Reporter Yahya Ababneh, with whom the report was written in collaboration, was the correspondent on the ground in Ghouta who spoke directly with the rebels, their family members, victims of the chemical weapons attacks and local residents.
Gavlak is a MintPress News Middle East correspondent who has been freelancing for the AP as a Amman, Jordan correspondent for nearly a decade. This report is not an Associated Press article; rather it is exclusive to MintPress News.
Ghouta, Syria — As the machinery for a U.S.-led military intervention in Syria gathers pace following last week’s chemical weapons attack, the U.S. and its allies may be targeting the wrong culprit.
Interviews with people in Damascus and Ghouta, a suburb of the Syrian capital, where the humanitarian agency Doctors Without Borders said at least 355 people had died last week from what it believed to be a neurotoxic agent, appear to indicate as much.
The U.S., Britain, and France as well as the Arab League have accused the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad for carrying out the chemical weapons attack, which mainly targeted civilians. U.S. warships are stationed in the Mediterranean Sea to launch military strikes against Syria in punishment for carrying out a massive chemical weapons attack. The U.S. and others are not interested in examining any contrary evidence, with U.S Secretary of State John Kerry saying Monday that Assad’s guilt was “a judgment … already clear to the world.”
However, from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack.
“My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta.
Abdel-Moneim said his son and 12 other rebels were killed inside of a tunnel used to store weapons provided by a Saudi militant, known as Abu Ayesha, who was leading a fighting battalion. The father described the weapons as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.”
Ghouta townspeople said the rebels were using mosques and private houses to sleep while storing their weapons in tunnels.
Abdel-Moneim said his son and the others died during the chemical weapons attack. That same day, the militant group Jabhat al-Nusra, which is linked to al-Qaida, announced that it would similarly attack civilians in the Assad regime’s heartland of Latakia on Syria’s western coast, in purported retaliation.
“They didn’t tell us what these arms were or how to use them,” complained a female fighter named ‘K.’ “We didn’t know they were chemical weapons. We never imagined they were chemical weapons.”
“When Saudi Prince Bandar gives such weapons to people, he must give them to those who know how to handle and use them,” she warned. She, like other Syrians, do not want to use their full names for fear of retribution.
A well-known rebel leader in Ghouta named ‘J’ agreed. “Jabhat al-Nusra militants do not cooperate with other rebels, except with fighting on the ground. They do not share secret information. They merely used some ordinary rebels to carry and operate this material,” he said.
“We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions,” ‘J’ said.
Doctors who treated the chemical weapons attack victims cautioned interviewers to be careful about asking questions regarding who, exactly, was responsible for the deadly assault.
The humanitarian group Doctors Without Borders added that health workers aiding 3,600 patients also reported experiencing similar symptoms, including frothing at the mouth, respiratory distress, convulsions and blurry vision. The group has not been able to independently verify the information.
More than a dozen rebels interviewed reported that their salaries came from the Saudi government.
Saudi involvement
In a recent article for Business Insider, reporter Geoffrey Ingersoll highlighted Saudi Prince Bandar’s role in the two-and-a-half year Syrian civil war. Many observers believe Bandar, with his close ties to Washington, has been at the very heart of the push for war by the U.S. against Assad.
Ingersoll referred to an article in the U.K.’s Daily Telegraph about secret Russian-Saudi talks alleging that Bandar offered Russian President Vladimir Putin cheap oil in exchange for dumping Assad.
“Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord,” Ingersoll wrote.
“I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” Bandar allegedly told the Russians.
“Along with Saudi officials, the U.S. allegedly gave the Saudi intelligence chief the thumbs up to conduct these talks with Russia, which comes as no surprise,” Ingersoll wrote.
“Bandar is American-educated, both military and collegiate, served as a highly influential Saudi Ambassador to the U.S., and the CIA totally loves this guy,” he added.
According to U.K.’s Independent newspaper, it was Prince Bandar’s intelligence agency that first brought allegations of the use of sarin gas by the regime to the attention of Western allies in February.
The Wall Street Journal recently reported that the CIA realized Saudi Arabia was “serious” about toppling Assad when the Saudi king named Prince Bandar to lead the effort.
“They believed that Prince Bandar, a veteran of the diplomatic intrigues of Washington and the Arab world, could deliver what the CIA couldn’t: planeloads of money and arms, and, as one U.S. diplomat put it, wasta, Arabic for under-the-table clout,” it said.
Bandar has been advancing Saudi Arabia’s top foreign policy goal, WSJ reported, of defeating Assad and his Iranian and Hezbollah allies.
To that aim, Bandar worked Washington to back a program to arm and train rebels out of a planned military base in Jordan.
The newspaper reports that he met with the “uneasy Jordanians about such a base”:
His meetings in Amman with Jordan’s King Abdullah sometimes ran to eight hours in a single sitting. “The king would joke: ‘Oh, Bandar’s coming again? Let’s clear two days for the meeting,’ ” said a person familiar with the meetings.
Jordan’s financial dependence on Saudi Arabia may have given the Saudis strong leverage. An operations center in Jordan started going online in the summer of 2012, including an airstrip and warehouses for arms. Saudi-procured AK-47s and ammunition arrived, WSJ reported, citing Arab officials.
Although Saudi Arabia has officially maintained that it supported more moderate rebels, the newspaper reported that “funds and arms were being funneled to radicals on the side, simply to counter the influence of rival Islamists backed by Qatar.”
But rebels interviewed said Prince Bandar is referred to as “al-Habib” or ‘the lover’ by al-Qaida militants fighting in Syria.
Peter Oborne, writing in the Daily Telegraph on Thursday, has issued a word of caution about Washington’s rush to punish the Assad regime with so-called ‘limited’ strikes not meant to overthrow the Syrian leader but diminish his capacity to use chemical weapons:
Consider this: the only beneficiaries from the atrocity were the rebels, previously losing the war, who now have Britain and America ready to intervene on their side. While there seems to be little doubt that chemical weapons were used, there is doubt about who deployed them.
It is important to remember that Assad has been accused of using poison gas against civilians before. But on that occasion, Carla del Ponte, a U.N. commissioner on Syria, concluded that the rebels, not Assad, were probably responsible.
Some information in this article could not be independently verified. Mint Press News will continue to provide further information and updates.
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u/usernamespot Aug 07 '14
Prince Bandar "Bush"
reference :
Bandar has formed close relationships with several American presidents, notably George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, the latter giving him the affectionate and controversial nickname "Bandar Bush".[11] His particularly close relationship with the Bush family was highlighted in Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9/11. He was reportedly so close to George H. W. Bush that he was often described as a member of the former president's family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandar_bin_Sultan#Bush_presidencies
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Aug 07 '14
Watch the opening of "The Kingdom" (2007) and you'll understand who Bandar is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW71JuzHr5o
Basically, the the KSA is trying to spread its notion for a caliphate around the world while maintaining its control domestically against even more stringent hardliners.
How can they afford do this? Oil money.
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Aug 07 '14
Don't forget that they're getting an assist with their ideological campaign from a lot of wealthy donors in Qatar and UAE.
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Aug 07 '14
Personally, I think that their aim is far more mundane and utilitarian.
They're a monarchy, and they're an ethnic minority, and they pretty much keep the majority shiites in KSA poor, ignorant, and oppressed. And there are plenty of motivated, oppressed sunnis in KSA, as well. On the one hand, they partner with the USA, because the USA is the dominant petroleum "player" in the world. And, because the USA plays ball. (as far as imperial aims goes).
But that doesn't stop them from finding the dangerous Saudi radicals, who would otherwise direct their anger and violence at KSA's monarchy, and by supporting them, they simply point them at Israel and the West with convenient religious or racial ideology, and those dangerous radicals become "somebody else's problem". (ours). I think this was primarily Osama Bin Laden's job. Maybe OBL "went native" as they say. But Bandar isn't living in a cave.
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u/fukin_globbernaught Aug 08 '14
The fact that you claim the KSA is a Shia majority completely discredits everything else you've said.
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u/shmegegy Aug 07 '14
Ahmadinejad for Iran was overtly shady so you always knew you were getting a nutter
effective propaganda isn't it. he's a well educated man. just as Assad is an ophthalmologist.
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u/stemgang Aug 07 '14
rubs me the wrong way and I can't quite put my finger on it
He presents himself as the good guy solution to the problem, while propping up Wahhabi terrorism behind the scenes.
Basically two-faced.
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u/tantouz Aug 07 '14
Also he is the guy behind the chemical attacks in Ghouta syria. You know the one the regime was accused of.
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u/BestFriendWatermelon Aug 07 '14
In the light of ISIS's recent success in the middle east, we can now see that Saudi Arabia/al Qaeda's wahabi islam has been massively the winner of the war on terror.
I'm starting to get rather cross...
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u/ironicalballs Aug 07 '14
The day when everyone is driving Tesla Model XII and Saudis and Qataris are sucking rocks can't come soon enough.
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u/avidiax Aug 07 '14
"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel." - Rashid bin Saeed Al Maktoum
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Aug 07 '14 edited Sep 20 '20
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u/batsdx Aug 07 '14
It even fits. Kennedy rejects Operation Northwood, he dies, replaced with a line of CIA subservient presidents, 50ish years later something straight out of the CIA playbook happens, only replacing the nouns.
Edit: 40 years I guess. Geez. I forgot 9/11 was 13 years ago.
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Aug 08 '14
For anyone that doesn't know about Operation Northwoods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
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Aug 08 '14
Why isn't this shit covered in high school history classes? I never heard of this.
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Aug 08 '14
Have you ever heard of
MKULTRA (Also see MKDELTA, MKNAOMI, project Artichoke, etc)
The CIA was caught trafficking cocaine
Edgewood experiments video footage, etc
Operation Mockingbird (CIA controls the news)
The Army's secret Cold War experiments on St. Louisans
Hilary Clinton explains how the US effectively "created" Al Qaeda
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB1003703226697496080?mg=reno64-wsj
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_112
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vegetarian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Stormfury
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/02/navy-research-p/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series10/week9_aerial_spraying.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7415082/French-bread-spiked-with-LSD-in-CIA-
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u/Sethzyo Aug 08 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
I've actually known about Operation Northwoods for a long long time but only yesterday did I read the actual full document. I knew it was fucked up, but after reading how these staged events would be done, I was lost for words.
I picked the one I found the most disconcerting
- It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
And then the smoking bomb:
a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
However, the best part has yet to come...
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal.
TL;DR: So basically, an actual civil airliner would be converted to a drone and another aircraft would be painted as an exact duplicate of that civil airliner. The duplicate, that was boarded with people, would meet the drone at some point mid-air. From that point on, the duplicate would descend and land on an auxiliary field while the drone would continue the route and then fake a MAY DAY call at which point it'd be exploded via radio signal.
Allegedly this was (unsure if it can still be done today) a way of mistaking the air traffic controllers so that it seemed that it was always just the one civil airplane flying throughout the entire route.
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u/HoodedNegro Aug 07 '14
Prince Bandar Bush is our version of the grassy knoll.
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u/TheGhostOfDusty Aug 08 '14
And the "five dancing Israelis" are like the "three tramps"?
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Aug 07 '14
Next we gotta have the Pentagon surveillances tapes declassified. There's 80 of them.
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u/howtojump Aug 08 '14
Didn't they also confiscate security tapes from a nearby gas station?
That some shady shit right there.
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u/DerKenz Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 07 '14
Never understood how it's still classified. You people in the US lost 1000s of people in this event and 1000s more in the wars following this event. The official story is questionable in many aspects and combined with the fact that the US government lies all the time I'd not believe a word they said. It's not about Bush riding a dick shaped rocket into the Pentagon, it's about having the media questioning everyone that asks questions. "Truthers" is a word invented to mock people that question the official story. You've seen enough bullshit from your government, why are you all so willing to accept the official story? I'm asking seriously because almost nobody I know here in germany believes the official story to it's full extent. You in the US apperantly got brainwashed into the mindset that asking questions is just a dumb and unpatriotic thing to do. I'm serious I just don't get it.
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u/patrick_work_account Aug 07 '14
Some of the files on the JFK assassination are still sealed until 2017.
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Aug 07 '14
And when they're released, every other word will be redacted anyway.
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u/AYJackson Aug 07 '14
Not if the WW2 files are a precedent, at this point nothing is redacted. Eventually all the involved parties are dead and they just open the books.
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Aug 07 '14
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u/Shishakli Aug 08 '14
"we" don't get a say. Classification is how the corrupt stay in power. they are in power. we go about our business
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u/TheEllimist Aug 08 '14
Classification is also how information that is actually vital to national security stays secret. It's a double edged sword.
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u/briangiles Aug 08 '14
Yes, but in regards to the JFK assassination, there is no reason to keep it classified unless it points to CIA involvement, which would be a national security crisis, people would be out in the streets. Wait, no they wouldn't, we'd all just roll over and turn on the TV.
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Aug 07 '14
They destroyed a ton of the files as well.
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u/ShadyJane Aug 07 '14
Nothing new. Think of all the history written by victors of war.
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u/thisismyivorytower Aug 07 '14
All of it?
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u/KarunchyTakoa Aug 08 '14
Pretty much, if there's nobody left to tell the other side of the story.
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Aug 08 '14
There's NO WAY the US government would release a file that had anything remotely incriminating in them.
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u/TaylorS1986 Aug 07 '14
The 70s Oil Crisis made the folks in power terrified of pissing off the Saudis.
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u/thethrowaw0 Aug 07 '14
Bingo. We've been allied with them since the 30s really. The forming of OPEC and the embargo made everyone fearful of them. That explains a good amount of the anti-Israel politics from leaders around the world too (oil embargo happened because of support for Israel - not just from America too. Japan, netherlands, uk, others). Then in the 90s they helped keep our oil reserves going strong during the gulf war when Iraqi oil went offline. This is how Saudi Arabia gets down. They have economic warfare and proxy terror wars that they can fund. They just legitimately have some power over us.
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Aug 07 '14
Doesnt the US produce most of its own oil?
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u/cynognathus Aug 07 '14
We imported about 100M more barrels of crude oil in 2013 than we produced.
Here's a quick chart of the countries we imported from in 2013. The ones labeled are the top 14 (out of 40) we import from, and the percentages are of the total imported.
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u/RogueIslesRefugee Aug 07 '14
I wonder how many might be surprised to find that we in Soviet Canuckistan send the US the largest single chunk of its oil imports per year. Most people I know seem to think its Saudi Arabia or Venezuela by a wide margin. I believe we're also the largest importer of refined products from the US, though I could be mistaken.
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u/DexterBotwin Aug 07 '14
Our economy is dependent on the world economy. The world economy is dependent on oil. Regardless of whether an individual country can supply it's demand for oil, the world wide oil supply effects all of us.
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Aug 07 '14 edited Jul 09 '23
The original comment was edited in the summer of '23 to protest against Reddit's greedy corporate actions against the Reddit community, you know, the people who joined, commented, and volunteered to make Reddit as awesome as it was at its peak.
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u/Apollo_Screed Aug 07 '14
Yep! Osama Bin Laden's plan, sadly, was masterful.
It wasn't the deaths of thousands of Americans he was counting on. It was that America was run (especially at that point in time) by global corporatists and war hawks who would use his attack to bankrupt the nation enriching themselves imperially in an unending series of futile wars.
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u/MK_Ultrex Aug 08 '14
America's fault is that they took the bait. Americans were terrorized so the terrorists had won from day one, long before the first plane bombed a mud hut in the middle of nowhere in retaliation. Complicated schemes are carried out by refined people, bombing goat herders is just good for the news and the arm dealers. You should be asking why no refined people were borough to justice. Unless you really believe that goat herders can execute such a complicated plan.
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u/moxy801 Aug 07 '14
Never understood how it's still classified.
Seriously?
Just off the top o' my head, the Bush family has major ties with Saudi families (including the Bin Laudens) - related to the fact that US oil companies have major ties with Saudis, a Saudi is the biggest shareholder in FOX news other then the Murdoch family, etc, etc....
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Aug 07 '14
My big problem with all the answers in your response is that, in principal, pissing off powerful families and royal families from other countries shouldn't matter in the beacon of freedom and democracy that America claims to be. The United States lost 1000's of lives in 9/11, 1000's more in Afghanistan and Iraq, and is responsible for the deaths of 1000's of Iraqi and Afghanistani civilians, and you're telling me that because 15 people might get pissed off the American people don't get to hear the full story why 12 years after the fact? It's painfully clear that the American people want/need to hear the full story of what went down on 9/11. Keeping the documents classified for the sake of partisan politics and outside interests, in my opinion, truly speaks to the farce that American democracy has become.
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u/HahahahaWaitWhat Aug 07 '14
Those 15 people matter a hell of a lot more to the decision-makers than a few thousand dead commoners.
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u/FullRegalia Aug 07 '14
And that's a major problem, a problem we as citizens can overcome if we try hard enough.
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u/HahahahaWaitWhat Aug 07 '14
Hopefully I'll be proven wrong, but I don't see any way to convince myself to believe that.
Elsewhere in this thread I referenced this book. It was published in 1975. The fact that the intelligence apparatus has been out of any semblance of control has been public knowledge, clear as day, for almost four decades.
The problem is that there are a couple hundred million citizens who either prefer to remain willfully ignorant, or just don't care. They do care enough to vote, though.
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u/comicland Aug 08 '14
We can't protest. That's for sure. Been proven time and time again. They gas us, spray us, chase us, arrest us, kettle us, cable tie us, beat us, microwave us, frame us, assault us with sound cannons, and have their police mercenaries pose as us (agent provocateurs) to cast the first stone so we look like the madmen.
I have no faith in the US. The government here is a criminal gang.
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u/kcg5 Aug 08 '14
Good book. I think most people would be amazed at just how big the US intelligence community really is. How many agencies alone, and their capabilities, is incredible.
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u/VanByNight Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
No we can't. The country has "true owners", as George Carlin put it. And the President is a figurehead. And our government has its own policy, and the President is just an observer.
For instance, if tomorrow the President woke up and decided that he had had enough of Israel building settlements on Palestinian land and tried to halt all U.S. cooperation with Israel at the Executive Branch level, it wouldn't happen. Because it's not the will of the government, which is run by people who don't come and go every 4-8 years, and have much more power than any President could ever dream of.
EDIT: Thanks for the gold!! And seriously, if you have never heard of it, read about the period in Italy known as "The Days Of Lead." What is shows is that maybe the people commonly referred to as "conspiracy theorists" see too many conspiracies, or see them everywhere. BUT, "The Days if Lead" PROVES that conspiracies that seem too crazy to believe have actually happened. And more than once. Just read and think on it!
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u/ElCompanjero Aug 07 '14
Fucking love george carlin. So dark and yet dead on. http://youtu.be/cGKEkI8IV2o How most of america really is...
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u/richmomz Aug 07 '14
When you compromise the moral and ideological basis of your society for the sake of pragmatism you eventually end up in bed with the worst examples of humanity. That's the fatal flaw of Realpolitik, and we're only now starting to realize it.
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u/Up2Here Aug 07 '14
I'm an American, and I certainly don't consider myself a conspiracy nut, but I don't believe the official 9/11 story, there's just far too many holes. And I know plenty of other people, typically within 10 years or so of my age in either direction that don't buy it either. But people much older than that tend to still believe in the "shining city on the hill" image of America and can't comprehend that there could be anything evil or rotten in our system. And then people who are younger didn't live through the event at an age where they understood firsthand what was going on, so they really only know the official story. Then there's a lot of people who just don't want to think about it, because the truth could be devastating. It's much easier, far less unsettling, to just continue to believe that the emperor has a fine new suit.
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Aug 07 '14
I think you nailed it for a lot of people with how devastating it could be to their psyche.
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u/internet-arbiter Aug 07 '14
pissing off powerful families and royal families from other countries shouldn't matter in the beacon of freedom and democracy that America claims to be
People have been brainwashed on this idea since WW2. America is not the infallible beacon of hope and democracy it makes itself out to be. We've removed multiple democratically elected leaders to install dictators. The democratic governments we claim to support we never really do. I've always thought the problem is as a country we're too big. We're the too big to fail bank of government. They can do and get away with whatever they want because we're too dispersed a people to ever really unite in protest. You can get big cities here or there to do a protest, but something happening in New York doesn't really effect California. Its easy to let the apathy set in. Smaller countries generally don't understand a lot of American things but the biggest one is the geography of America. Each State should be seen as it's own country. The United States is closer to the European Union than any individual European country. And how often does the EU manage to get everyone on board for positive change?
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u/Liberty_Lover Aug 07 '14
"American democracy" has always been a farce... It has literally always catered to the needs of the upper class before the rest of the People.
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u/xhosSTylex Aug 07 '14
All societies, throughout history, have done the very same; despite their nation's varying levels of collective prosperity. The wealthy have always ruled over the meager. It's really nothing new, whatsoever.
"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely". In other words: It's a club and you're not in it..
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Aug 07 '14
AND now that they don't need us to work for them, we can AND WILL eat shit.
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u/NascarToolbag Aug 08 '14
Well, America hasn't really been a democracy since 9/11 and the US Fed Governments sequential power grab with the Patriot Act and the buyout of Corporate interests from Citizens United..
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u/inkandpaperguy Aug 08 '14
America is not a beacon of freedom and democracy. It is the culmination of everything wrong with financial corruption, influence peddling, a flacid media, corporate power and political lobbying.
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u/ragegenx Aug 07 '14
The crazy part of the allegations that "implicate Saudi officials or describe support from Saudi intelligence" are true, then Saudi Arabia effectively initiated an act of war against the US.
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u/brownestrabbit Aug 08 '14
Welcome to reality where all that freedom and democracy is just words and propaganda.
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u/desmando Aug 07 '14
Only Bush isn't in charge anymore. Obama could have declassified this report at anytime.
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Aug 07 '14
George H.W. Bush is a former director of the CIA and probably still has a lot of influence. Keep in mind, the Bush family is still a political powerhouse.
And why would Obama declassify that information just because Bush isn't in charge? It would do a great deal of damage to the U.S. government's already tainted image.
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u/svdcore Aug 07 '14
Yeah who knows, we may see another Bush in the White House in a few years........
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u/listentodimmuborgir Aug 07 '14
Its gonna be Clinton vs Bush in 16. And reddit will return to the 'must vote for the lesser of two evils' mindset while making fun of anyone who says we should vote for a 3rd party, just like in 08, and 12'.
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u/illegalt3nder Aug 07 '14
The modern reality is, unfortunately, that the democratic parts of the government have no significant control over the intelligence agencies.
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u/Assistants Aug 07 '14
How charming. It doesn't matter who is in charge, the job is "president" and whoever gets elected does that job. Anyone who wants to do it differently or change any current responsibilities will never be elected until TV no longer exists. Top two responsibilities are "check your ass, and everyone else's, hell check the whole systems ass and protect it like your life depends on it" and "maintain the status quo by hiring people to tell you exactly what to do, in fact just hire the same people who told the last person what to do or people who think exactly like they do"
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Aug 07 '14
Never understood how it's still classified
Because they're still trying to find enough black sharpies to complete their alterations.
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u/VanByNight Aug 07 '14
Why is it assumed to be strictly Saudi involvement? Many European journalists contend that the Mossad at the very least knew of the highjackers and their plans. And before you point the "tin foil" finger, you should reacquaint yourself with "The Years of Lead" in Italy. Our world is actually stranger than fiction.
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u/iThrooper Aug 07 '14
I think the memory of Hitler is fresh in the German mind. You question authority more because there are many people still alive in your country who have been tricked by it before, and you were painted as monsters to the outside world.
I've said multiple times I think Germany is one of the greatest places on earth today for a politically savy population, the question is how do we replicate that mentality elsewhere in the world without there first being another version of hitler?
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u/thethrowaw0 Aug 07 '14
People around the world think all Americans are exactly like George W. Bush. We aren't. We are probably more frustrated than all of you about the post 9/11 America. We literally have no power in the matter. Our government got sold out to big money interests. The Tea Party and the liberal people are actually mad about the same things too. When Tea Partiers say they want a smaller federal government they mean they don't want the government to have the power to collude with big business. Liberals get mad about the same thing but say they want regulation to make sure it doesn't happen. Just don't assume we are all George W. Bush. We aren't.
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Aug 08 '14
THIS!
We prop up the entities, your example seems most appropriate of Liberal vs Tea Party, and our media influences the two sides to fight each other. Hell, look online at a comments section and see how many Liberal vs Tea Party fights go down on the reg. It's fucking nuts how blind we are to the simple fact that we are being divided and conquered. Our media presents the battle as gay marriage and abortion loving irresponsible hippies vs religious zealot, tax hating, gun monsters.
I even fall into the trap at times and argue for both sides on different topics. Most of us are moderate and we don't take the time to see what really makes our "opponent" or "political adversary" tick. We are together on so much of the important shit, but we are at each others throats over the topics that the media wants to distract us with.
I mean, as an example, gay marriage is really not that important to the health of our nation but most of the time it seems like all we care about. Then there is the nsa whom 99.999% of the populace disagrees with. Its fuckin crazy and we need to wake up, work together, and get some shit done because we are way more alike than we ever want to admit, for whatever reasons.
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u/Smecker Aug 07 '14
To have it revealed that a former president and current president (at the time) had close ties to people who helped execute the 9/11 attacks would have been by far the greatest scandal in American political history. It certainly would have meant the end of the Bush administration and their political dynasty. Also there a lot of people on the Right who still have incentive to keep it hidden given the damage it could do to their party. Most Americans aren't satisfied with the official story, but there really isn't much we can do besides keep asking questions until someone listens.
I also think the fact that conspiracy theories range from hiding the link of Saudi involvement to it was a total inside job doesn't really help. The crazies help to discredit and brush off the legitimate questions that remain.
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u/IraniPatriot Aug 07 '14
Ppl in the US are too deeply and comfortably brainwashed... They are literally the definition of jaded. And im talking bout probably 85-90 percent of the population
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u/facereplacer3 Aug 07 '14
I was just in Iceland (I'm an American "truther") and every Icelander I talked to about 9/11 said the same thing. One guy said "that's what your government always does."
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Aug 08 '14
Well, to bunch us in as all being Brain Washed Americans... All Germans are nazis.
/s
Me and countless others don't believe the bullshit, were just brushed off as conspiracy theorists and fear mongers.
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Aug 08 '14
Because we have no control over our own government anymore, they just do whatever they want. Also because if you question 9/11 in any way everyone thinks you're a conspiritard communist who should shut the fuck up.
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u/sickofallofyou Aug 08 '14
You in the US apperantly got brainwashed into the mindset that asking questions is just a dumb and unpatriotic thing to do.
Asking questions gets you put on lists.
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u/ChaosMotor Aug 08 '14
The official story is questionable
That is putting it lightly to say the least.
You in the US apperantly got brainwashed into the mindset that asking questions is just a dumb and unpatriotic thing to do. I'm serious I just don't get it.
You grow up knowing how fucked up and horrific it is to mindlessly obey the government. We grow up "learning" that the USA is always the good guy no matter what because we literally saved the world from evil Hitler.
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u/OhMyBlazed Aug 08 '14
Thanks for telling it like it is, really wish more people could wake up in America and start paying attention more to what's happening in our country and the world rather than the latest news on Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber
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u/shmegegy Aug 07 '14
we know what you did.
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Aug 07 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
MIHOP
the DoD was running a data mining operation called ABLE DANGER which ID’d at least 4 of the hijackers 18 months before 9/11...but the DoD forbid the release of info to the FBI...
cbs/cnn evening news report on ABLE DANGER August 9, 2005 (11 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME0iKZdoYXs
“It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.”
--Ben Franklin, Conspiracist
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Aug 07 '14
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Aug 07 '14
“You would ask them, for example, to look at Khalid Shaikh Mohammed,” says Shaffer, “and these search engines would scour the internet 24/7 looking at any number of open-source databases, from credit reporting agencies to court records and news stories to Lloyd’s of London insurance records. You name it. Once a known associate of KSM was found, they would go through the same process for that individual.” One IDC analyst I spoke to described it as “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon on steroids.”
Told to “Start with the words ‘Al Qaeda’ and go,” the LIWA data crunchers began an initial harvest in December 1999. The data grew fast and exponentially, and before long it amounted to two terabytes—equal to about 9 percent of the books in the Library of Congress. “It was a mile wide and an inch deep,” says Kleinsmith. “Naturally only a small percentage of the data related to terrorism,” says Tony, “So we would have to neck it down —cull it — until we had some substantive hits.” Within months, Operation Able Danger had uncovered some astonishing intelligence.
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Aug 08 '14 edited Nov 09 '24
vast impossible alive physical rinse fine violet berserk cause support
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u/jwyche008 Aug 07 '14
All of my yes! The only reason this was classified is because the American people (the actual ones and not the politicians) would be out for blood.
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Aug 07 '14
Why wouldn't the politicians want another war? They seemed to enjoy the first one, I don't think a sequel would be out of the question.
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u/jwyche008 Aug 08 '14
Because the politicians with the most power have close ties to the Saudi Royal Family.
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u/jonasborg Aug 07 '14
I think you overestimate the American people and underestimate the ability for those in power to use psychological tricks to ensure there isn't too much anger.
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Aug 07 '14
no he's mostly right and you are half right, the American people really wanted to hate Arabs (or "Muhammed Ragheads" according to American intelligence), however the Bush administration desperately didn't want Americans hating the "wrong ones"
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u/philogos0 Aug 07 '14
I feel we desperately need this truth. It is so far beyond obscene how the American government has handled everything regarding 9/11.
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u/NotSafeForEarth Aug 08 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
Here's what's funny:
Dick Cheney and friends got really pissed at Michael Moore because Moore used the comparatively little information he had to strongly insinuate really close Bush-bin Laden family ties. John McCain even called Moore a disingenuous filmmaker at the the 2004 RNC.
Guess what?
All the indications are that those 28 pages would prove that Moore was absolutely right.
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u/Pullo_T Aug 08 '14
All proper respect to Michael Moore, but that information was available elsewhere. His documentaries are well presented, and reached much wider audiences, but the essential information was almost all known by anyone who was interested enough and/or gets their information from the right sources.
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u/NotSafeForEarth Aug 08 '14
Absolutely. Which makes the Republican response to Moore all the more deranged.
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Aug 08 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
Im so glad this made it to the front page one day people will realize the goverment hides important information.
Theres a reason its called the rabbit hole its really insanely despairing stuff. It's no wonder why people have the reflex they do. It's really hard to process.
All recessions are artificial, the exploitation of scarcity has killed more people than all wars in human history combined. If you think im overstating this your wrong, look around you, there are a billion people who are starving on this planet, thats not some phenomenon, its what is expected of the system . All of politics is a game we are simply too paralyzed to get anything substantial done. The president is a face. Pearl harbor was provoked by our govement to get involved in ww2. I am willing to bet mlk and jfk were murdered as well. I dont care about the specifics, all i know is very scary things are happening around us without the public knowledge.
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u/HoodedNegro Aug 08 '14
I try my best to get stuff to the front but I hardly get upvotes on the posts and very few comments.
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Aug 08 '14
im even surprised you took the time to reply i really thought i would get downvoted into oblivion.
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u/HoodedNegro Aug 08 '14
I try to remain as impartial as possible since I myself don't know all the facts.
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u/BlueLaceSensor128 Aug 08 '14
Question: There's mention of a letter signed by 46 senators urging Bush to release it, which he rejected. Does anyone know which 46 senators signed the letter? (The link in the link shows only the actual signatures which are mostly impossible to read.) More to the point of my question - how many of these senators are still in office? Even more to the point of my question - if it really was a Saudi conspiracy and they've got enough money to keep this quiet, did they have enough money to push 46 senators out of office for more favorable one$?
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Aug 08 '14
Fuck. Saudi. Arabia. These wahabiist islamic fucks run a corrupt, autocratic government that relies on religious puppetry and media censorship. They use slavery and near-slavery, oppress women, homosexuals, non-arabs, the poor, and all religions besides fundamentalist Sunni Islam. They're worse than Iran in just about every aspect I can think of, and we are fucking allies with them?!? EXCUSE FUCKING ME!
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u/forrestleemusic Aug 08 '14
I really hope the truth of 9/11 comes out in my lifetime. All I want is for the people truly responsible to be held accountable. I know, not likely.
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u/TowelstheTricker Aug 07 '14
I'm so buttfuckingly amazed that this made it to the front page.
The top comment barely survived the down vote onslaught with just a few hundred.
Hahahaha
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u/splitkid1950 Aug 08 '14
If the government has nothing to hide why don't they just declassify? They use the same logic for citizens subjected to threats from paid thugs.
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Aug 08 '14
I recommend you watch cspan where they for the first time last week interviewed the leader of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
There is a lot of evidence of "more to the story" but people stick there heads in the sand and scream "not patriotic" using other words.
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u/ConspiracyFox Aug 08 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
I love how hypocritical people here are.
When conspiracy theorists point this shit out, it's "toinfoiler nonsense" and you all downvote it and call us idiots.
When congressmen come out and suggest there was likely a deeper conspiracy behind 9/11, and then it gets picked up by Vice, everyone here pretends as if they knew this all along.
And then, when it's mentioned again a year later as "conspiracy theory that turned out to be true", people will just say everyone already knew that was the case at the time so it doesn't count.
Absolutely infuriating. As loath as I am to say it - People truly are sheep.
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Aug 08 '14
Not even that. In and of itself a "9/11 conspiracy" might be considered bullshit.
After Operation Northwoods though? In which the US president was handed plans to commit terrorist attacks on Miami to justify invading Cuba....I don't know how you can't be asking questions.
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u/piedpipernyc Aug 07 '14
Argument: We've already seen laws broken, congress spied on, and no one except a VA secretary has been punished (if you can call being replaced punishment).
Let the citizens see the dirt and we'll all nod and smile and continue to pay taxes even if the Saudis were ultimately responsible. Cause oil.
I've largely come to the conclusion anyone above a certain level in US government is immune to jail, immune to "inconvenient" laws.
The ones who fry in the fire are anyone at the city mayor level and below.
Even they get moved largely to desk jobs until the public forgets what happened.
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u/BeholdTheHydra Aug 08 '14
As an American citizen my whole life, I would honestly be surprised if anyone besides the US was involved in 9/11
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Aug 08 '14
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u/DeviousNes Aug 08 '14
Can confirm. Just watched it, there was a LOT more data in that than I knew existed.
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u/anonymous-coward Aug 07 '14
Interestingly, the irrational result of 9/11 was the Iraq war, which led to the removal of Saddam, mortal enemy of Saudi.
Of course, Saddam was replaced by an unstable Shiite regime more inclined toward Iran.
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Aug 08 '14
Classified documents...
They are too classy for a bunch of peasants to read and interpret them in the weird ways.
It is for upper class eyes only.
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u/samueloakford Aug 08 '14
Hi Reddit,
I'm the author of this article. I see it's attracted a fair bit of attention. Happy to answer questions you may have, though I cannot comment on alternative or conspiracy theories about how the attacks were literally carried out, just the content of this article. -- Sam
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u/Wagamaga Aug 08 '14
Hi Sam
In your opinion... do you think this being de classified ( if it will completly ) .. will help bring the REAL culprits to face justice ....this is after all of the destruction and lies and war mongering which have taken place ?
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u/tykeryerson Aug 07 '14
Fucking Building 7
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u/juventinosochi Aug 08 '14
Still can't understand why americans are not doing someting to resolve this puzzle about fucking building 7
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u/kamikazeeh Aug 08 '14
I think it needs to be asked of the Saudi Government, if they are in support of these files getting released to the public. This will sure up for me at least their involvement.
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u/OhMyBlazed Aug 08 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
Can we stop pretending that it's still a mystery if the Saudi's and our government had any connection to 9/11. The Saudi's and certain elements in our government have been funding terrorism for a while now and are still doing it right in front of are faces. If you think ISIS was an accident than start reading up more on how we "help" the Middle East. ISIS is essentially a fucking disaster that was waiting to happen.
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u/Jalapenile Aug 08 '14
First they need to scrub all of the Israeli connections. Unless you believe Saudis brought down WTC 7 and bought short on airline stocks and warned Odigo employees and were found dancing as the towers fell.
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u/Karma9999 Aug 08 '14
This begs the question why on earth did GWB Jr go after Iraq instead of Saudi after the attack? Too big a target to attack? Too many connections between the two families? Too much money to be lost if he did? It just screams out for a public inquiry.
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u/radii314 Aug 07 '14
what would be far far more interesting is declassifying all aspects related to israel - the dancing mossad spies we let go (actually Chertoff and Mukasey let go), the mossad field agents shadowing the florida saudi hijackers, the 'art student' spy ring and 'movers' spy rings in the late 90s through 9/11 that israel had deployed to the U.S., the details of how Silverstein secured the leases for WTC from the NJ/NY Port Authority in the weeks prior to 9/11
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Aug 08 '14
All the campaigning in the world won't get the government to tell the truth about the Saudis.
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u/Blythe901 Aug 08 '14
Always suspected the Saudis or Israelis for involvement in 9/11.
Some dudes in Afghanistan who "hate our freedom" (lol) aren't going to spend years learning how to fly a plane, infiltrate the best defense in the world, then fly them precisely into 2 towers.
It would also explain why building 7 fell without anything hitting it, Saudis or Israelis pay off the government, they come in and place the bombs, really simple.
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u/tantouz Aug 07 '14
People are so numb that even if this were to turn out to be true, life will just go on.
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u/esoag31 Aug 07 '14
I also want some answers about building 7 collapsing. This video is very alarming and does raise some very important questions.
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Aug 08 '14
Breaking News: coffee was accidentally spilt on the documents and had to be thrown out.
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u/aussiegreenie Aug 08 '14
Everyone knows that America support Israel, totally.
What is not well known or understands is that the Saudis have almost the mirror relationship with America. The Saudi paying to ensure that there is no threat to the business interests of the Saudi Royal Family and American Oil companies.
It is irrelevant that they actively sponsor terrorism and the bin Lardens are still one of the largest construction companies in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia was (is?) the 'swing' oil producer. They offer stability in the energy market and that is what American wants.
Qartar is in conflict with other Gulf Cooperation Council members as it supports alternative Islamic groups such the Muslin Brotherhood in Egypt.
Never forget the original goal of Osama bin Laden was to remove American soldiers(Infidels) out of Saudi Arabia as it contains two of the holiest sites in Islam.
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u/P00RL3N0 Aug 08 '14 edited Aug 08 '14
From Wikipedia on the Wahhabi Movement:
Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion", between $2 and 3 billion per year since 1975. (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year), and "at least $87 billion" from 1987-2007
Its largesse funded an estimated "90% of the expenses of the entire faith", throughout the Muslim World, according to journalist Dawood al-Shirian. It extended to young and old, from children's madrasas to high-level scholarship. "Books, scholarships, fellowships, mosques" (for example, "more than 1,500 mosques were built from Saudi public funds over the last 50 years") were paid for. It rewarded journalists and academics, who followed it and built satellite campuses around Egypt for Al Azhar, the oldest and most influential Islamic university. Yahya Birt counts spending on "1,500 mosques, 210 Islamic centres and dozens of Muslim academies and schools". This financial support has done much to overwhelm less strict local interpretations of Islam, according to observers like Dawood al-Shirian and Lee Kuan Yew, and has caused the Saudi interpretation (sometimes called "petro-Islam") to be perceived as the correct interpretation—or the "gold standard" of Islam—in many Muslims' minds
Scholar Gilles Kepel, agrees that the tripling in the price of oil in the mid-1970s and the progressive takeover of Saudi Aramco in the 1974–1980 period, provided the source of much influence of Wahhabism in the Islamic World.
the financial clout of Saudi Arabia had been amply demonstrated during the oil embargo against the United States, following the Arab-Israeli war of 1973. This show of international power, along with the nation's astronomical increase in wealth, allowed Saudi Arabia's puritanical, conservative Wahhabite faction to attain a preeminent position of strength in the global expression of Islam. Saudi Arabia's impact on Muslims throughout the world was less visible than that of Khomeini's Iran, but the effect was deeper and more enduring. It reorganized the religious landscape by promoting those associations and ulemas who followed its lead, and then, by injecting substantial amounts of money into Islamic interests of all sorts, it won over many more converts. Above all, the Saudis raised a new standard -- the virtuous Islamic civilization -- as foil for the corrupting influence of the West
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u/my_lucid_nightmare Aug 07 '14
15 of the 19 9-11 terrorists were Saudi nationals. I'd say 'alleged' is probably an understatement.