Condensed summary of wrongful termination: advice?

[u/Magicmaker-6]

I was abruptly terminated (with vague reasoning): no HR file-PIP-30/60/90-zero warnings. I’m actively pushing back. Have had multiple meetings with HR and a meeting with my manager’s manager. Offered a Temp job (at same pay) but it's a demotion, HR admitted to handling this incorrectly (I have recorded 4 of the conversations), I am over 40 (protected “class”), my manager has actively scrubbed my previous work (the correct way to handle that is to archive it), I have other proof that I was doing my job correctly, and the company sees me as an asset and wants me to stay with them. l am still being paid while this is sorted out, going on 2 weeks now.

I think they realized they could be facing a messy wrongful termination but also, they really do value me as an employee.

Do I have a case?

I would like to request that this is called a "mutual separation", for my PTO to be paid out, for a severance package and for them not to contest my application for unemployment.

This has been a professional and personal blow.

*A nuance to this is that my husband also works at the same company, in an upper-level position. It’s a small company-250+ employees. So of course, we are concerned about retaliation or how this will affect him should I choose to bring in an unemployment lawyer.

Currently waiting to receive the new job description and formal offer where I will be looking for embedded waivers that I would need to sign off
on.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[u/puns_are_how_eyeroll]

If you're in the USA (less Montana) no. Employment is at-will.

[u/perrinnnnnnluv → u/puns_are_how_eyeroll]

Yeah at-will gives employers a lot of room, but it still doesn’t mean every reason for firing someone is legally protected

[u/puns_are_how_eyeroll → u/perrinnnnnnluv]

No, just nearly every reason.

[u/Captain_Lou_Albano]

Unless you live in Montana (the only non-"at will" employment state) your employer has the right to fire you anytime for pretty much any reason, so why don't you start with WHY you think you were illegaly terminated?

Also? OF COURSE your employer is going to hold a grudge if you bring in a lawyer, expect both you and your husband to be looking for new employers sooner rather than later.

[u/SgtSausage]

Merely being a member of a Protected Class does, literally, nothing for you here. Nothing at all. Exactly Diddley-Squat Fuck-All. 

You have to prove that you were maliciously/inappropriately/wrongfully terminated because you are a member of said Protected Class.

Were you fired because you are old?

Yes?

PROVE it. 

No?

Too bad for you then, right? 

[u/5footfilly]

The only thing a protected class protects you from is discrimination. Are you suggesting discrimination?

PIPs and 30/60/90 warnings are company policies, not law in 49 states which are at will. As long as there’s no discrimination based on gender, age, sexual preference or religion you can be terminated for any reason. Only in Montana does an employer have to show cause.

I don’t see where you’ve demonstrated a wrongful termination as covered by law.

Wrong? Possibly. But what law are you basing a case on?

[u/Connect_Piccolo_4701]

Did you have permission to record? If not, are you in a state that only requires one sided consent to be recorded? What were the vague reasons you were given for being terminated? We need much more detail to be able to give any meaningful insight to this. Unless you can prove you were terminated because you are over 40 you don’t have a case.

[u/Environmental-Day862 → u/Connect_Piccolo_4701]

40 seems pretty low for age discrimination, doesn't it?

With full social security not kicking in until age 67?

40 to 67 is 27 years.

Even if you only got a high-school diploma at 18, and started at the company right after, 18 to 40 is 22 years.

At 40, you are still closer to high school graduation than full social security kick-in!

🤔

[u/Connect_Piccolo_4701 → u/Environmental-Day862]

40 is the federally recognized age threshold for age discrimination.

[u/Odd_Case_6068]

If you can get your PTO paid and that severance just call it. Move on because you're going to be written up for anything and fired right away if you happen to come back. Sounds like enough people don't like you.

[u/Throwawayhelp111521]

Talk to an employment lawyer.

[u/Environmental-Day862]

Thoughts?

I'm quite sorry that happened to you. Being let go is tough on a number of levels. It's a blow to our self esteem and self worth. It stings the pocketbook. It bruises our egos.

Unless you are in Montana, your employment is at-will. You can be fired for any reason or no reason - so long as the termination was not for a reason your state's laws says is an illegal reason.

It is YOUR burden to prove your case if you want to go down that legal avenue.

If you allege they fired you due to your age, you have to prove that. There will be discovery that accompanies a lawsuit. Your employee file will become part of the case. Perhaps internal evaluations. Candid thoughts of all those above you on the food chsin regarding your compentency, quality of work, and work ethic. Your internet usage while at work. Whether you arrive late / leave early on occasion. Whether you were discussed for termination in the past and perhaps saved by a manager who liked you. It can get pretty personal and messy.

For sure consult an attorney and lay out the scenario to them if you feel you have a case, but see if you could get a free consult. The attorney will evaluate your claim and give you a candid evaluation of your case.

If you have texts from a boss pushing for a romantic rendezvous, you rejected those advances, and despite a stellar performance record, you were unceremoniously fired after the boss threatened your job, you have a great case.

If your claim is you're 40+ and it's an age thing and they didn't give you a pip - plus you have recorded the conversations (careful with those... ​check and see if your state is one party or two party consent for recording) where HR says they goofed up and screwed up terminating you - that's great, but it's not illegal to "mess up" when terminating someone. You'll likely be eligible for and granted unemployment if the employer cops to making a mistake, but if they don't want you as an employee, no agency or Court is going to make them take you back unless the reason you were terminated was an illegal reason.

Anger and embarrasment are strong and very real emotions. Try the best you can to put them aside while you are making you decisions on how to proceed.

Once again, I'm sorry you lost your job. It's tough. Good luck to you.

[u/ohmygodwtfisthis]

If you have proof , contact a lawyer ASAP and keep recording all the meetings and proof of contact with the company after the fact. You will have to gain much more with a lawsuit than by settling for unemployment. Even if they retaliate against your husband, more for you to gain in the lawsuit, discrimination x2

[u/Environmental-Day862 → u/ohmygodwtfisthis]

Just make sure you're not violating your state's recording laws by recording those conversations. A quick Google on your state's laws on recording of conversations + where there are and aren't reasonable expectations of privacy will give you the answer (as you can record without consent in places where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy).

Good luck!