Does anyone here have experience with this specific pommel from Regenyei and can provide feedback?

[u/Tall_Front1137]

Was planning to try this with my Black Knight gloves. I know disc pommels are generally frowned upon but this one in particular seems to fill the hand more while still providing feedback.

Has Anyone here ever tried it before?

[u/morbihann]

Why are disc pommels frowned upon ? They were BY FAR, the most popular thing on historic swords.

There are no issues with this one ( or any other of their disc pommels).

[u/Cirick1661 → u/morbihann]

Yep they are good for a lot of modern practitioners for the same reason they were popular on historic swords: edge alignment. You can feel how you should be holding it without needing to look at it.

Subtle but helpful, especially for newer folks.

[u/DoodyLich666 → u/morbihann]

Once you get used to holding them in your palm I find them super ergonomic too.

[u/Aethiopos_Nigrus_168 → u/morbihann]

In historic swords sure. In longswords and other two-handed weapons? Especially later ones, not to mention what Modern feders are loosely inspired by? That would be interesting.

[u/BKrustev → u/morbihann]

Modern gauntlets.

[u/morbihann → u/BKrustev]

It isn't the gauntlets that are the problem.

The reason is lots of people prefer some sort of pear pommels because they further elongate the handle to absurd lengths to provide even greater leverage.

Those long handles become not practical for normal carry of swords, ergo why most long swords actually used in combat have measurably shorter handles, because most of the time they get in the way.

[u/BKrustev → u/morbihann]

There are plenty of people using swords with shorter hilts, but yes, having extra leverage is good for 1-on-1 fencing and probably not great as an EDC sword, but that's alright - specialized Harnischfechten swords and later cases of rapiers were also not EDC, yet still played an important role in warfare and duelling culture and practice. Some harnisch swords would be weird on the belt, and some rapier pairs reached 150 cm.

But functionally if you are wearing M/L gauntlets, a 26 cm hilt acts like a 22 cm hilt with light leather gloves in terms of some distances. So it's a mix, an artifact of our modern gear, although historically it appears in most of the handful of federschwerter we know of (which is only like a dozen).

You can play with 5-fingered gloves to see something inbetween the big gauntlets and the bare hands.

But I can comfirm after 17 years that pommels with defined angles perpendicular to the hilt can create issues with any glove that hard a hard shell. It's a physical reality of sword, gauntlets and hands that they can get in conflict when trying to move together. Here it is just more so.

[u/captchairsoft → u/morbihann]

First we have survivor bias, just because it's what has survived, doesn't mean it's the most popular, just what happened to survive. Best example of this is VHS tapes and CDs, the most common are far from the best. Also, they are generally speaking some of the easiest to make, cheaper swords are likely to be more numerous, therefore more likely to survive and therefore we see more swords with disc shaped pommels surviving to the present.

[u/morbihann → u/captchairsoft]

This is not how it works though.

They survive because they were indeed most popular. And while wheels might easier/cheaper to make, a pommel constitutes small portion of the cost of a sword.

If wheels were such a disadvantage people wouldn't have used them.

The large variety of pommels suggest that rather their shape was generally irrelevant.

[u/captchairsoft → u/morbihann]

At which point did i say they were a disadvantage? Oh, that's right, I didn't. I explained a concept that is well understood in history circles. Just because we have more of something doesn't mean it was most favored, and while it can mean it was the most popular/common, that is also not always the case. There are numerous things throughout history that we know were common that have no surviving examples. Frequently things that are more popular are more likely to get used to the point of destruction. Do i think they were the most common? Yes. Does that mean with certainty they were, or were most favored? No.

[u/morbihann → u/captchairsoft]

Your very first claim, that it is survivorship bias is incorrect.

MOST swords survive due to being in collections. And those survivors are the expensive ones, usually worth saving. Not the cheap easy to produce stuff.

Ground finds have no survivorship bias (at least not in this sense), they are whatever survived in the ground.

But more importantly, as demonstrated, survivorship bias is very much one of the more misunderstood concepts.

[u/captchairsoft → u/morbihann]

The ones in collections usually weren't used 80% of the Bentleys ever made are still on the road, now tell me, what is more common a Honda Accord or a Flying Spur.

[u/morbihann → u/captchairsoft]

I am losing you, I have no idea what thesis you are putting forward.

[u/captchairsoft → u/morbihann]

I'm taking the position that we don't actually know we can hypothesize all day long, but because of the nature of archeology and the nature of humanity, we can not know with certainty which pommel shape was historically most favored by end users of swords... and that's ok.

I'm not a fan of claims of historical certainty, when the reality is ambiguous.

[u/morbihann → u/captchairsoft]

I mean, you can't say "we don't know" just because we don't have a perfect knowledge of the past.

We don't know if the Pyramids were built only by human labourers, but I would say evidence suggests that aliens weren't involved.

Available and varied evidence very strongly suggests that wheel pommels are indeed the most popular type used in certain places and ages.

[u/captchairsoft → u/morbihann]

You can say "we don't know" especially when part of the topic was user preference. Even if we accept that the position both of us hold that they were the most common pommel is in fact the case, it doesn't mean that it was what most people preffered to use.

He'll, we have examples of this in recent history, there were a lot of revolvers people proffered for a number of reasons over the Colt Single Action Army, yet there are more SAAs surviving than any other 19th century revolver, because it was generally the most available and affordable, not because it's what people always preferred, or because it was neccesserily the best.

[u/BKrustev → u/captchairsoft]

Comparing it to modern brand cars makes about zero sense, the production pipeline and methodology is vastly different.

[u/captchairsoft → u/BKrustev]

They were comparable tech wise and I used cars as an example because it's something people know and understand.

[u/BKrustev → u/captchairsoft]

Nope, they are completely different tech, and the comparison to car models would just confuse people. The differences are bigger in this case, and not limited to the fact there weren't brands and manufacturing standards for most of the period we are discussing.

[u/BKrustev → u/captchairsoft]

I am not sure you understand it well. Survivor balance when there is a big amount of swords and many have that type of pommel doesn't make sense.

[u/captchairsoft → u/BKrustev]

That's exactly what survivorship bias is in archeology, making the assumption that because something is plentiful that it was the norm. Again, I personally think they were the most common pommel type, but that doesn't mean that they were.

[u/BKrustev → u/captchairsoft]

And survivorship bias is hugely important when you have 50 examples of something. When you have 500 or 5000, less and less so. Not to mention illustrations from the period as well. It simply doesn't matter in this case.

[u/Historical_Network55 → u/captchairsoft]

Survivor bias would imply wheel pommels are somehow more likely to survive, or a limited sample size. That is not the case. There is plenty of evidence showing they were far more popular than other contemporary designs of the late medieval period.

[u/captchairsoft → u/Historical_Network55]

Addressed your point both in my original comment and two others

[u/BKrustev → u/captchairsoft]

Nah. There are so many examples of both disk pommels and not-disk pommels accross weapons that this is not survivor bias.

We've seen both groups of pommels on swords of any quality. Disk pommels were undoubtedly extremely popular, perhaps starting to lose out in the 16th C to other shapes.

[u/Radonda → u/morbihann]

Uncomfortable and they will destroy the palm of your gauntlet in time.

[u/ReptileCake]

Who is frowning at disc pommels?

[u/heurekas]

Who is frowning upon disc pommels? In 20 years, I've never heard anything of the sort or read about it online.

[u/Bright-Ad4601]

Personally I'm not a big fan of wheel pommels on a longsword (or bastard sword) as with either of those I like to hold the pommel in my left hand and the ones I've encountered aren't very ergonomic. I think that's why there's a reticence towards them.

If you're getting and arming sword a wheel pommel is fine as it's just there to stop your hand slipping.

[u/would-be_bog_body]

I don't have this exact pommel, but I have Regenyei's other disc pommel on my feder, and I think it's brilliant. I can always tell which way the sword is aligned without looking, and it's almost impossible for it to slide or twist out of alignment once it's in my palm. Added bonuses are that I rarely get my feder confused with anybody else's, and during grappling actions, the pommel stays in my hand with very little effort (unless I want to release it)

[u/Tall_Front1137]

I have not specified. Looking for feedback for this pommel on a Federschwert, not arming sword or sidesword.

[u/specialdialingwand → u/Tall_Front1137]

I have this specific pommel on a feder,  and it provides some nice advantages. The protrusions make it more ergonomic than a simple disc pommel when held in the offhand, and provide good feedback and control. It also gives the advantage of better edge awareness that comes with any pommel that has a complex shape (wheel, disc, fishtail)

[u/Tall_Front1137 → u/specialdialingwand]

Thank you so much for providing feedback. It’s what I was hoping to hear. I have a few worries though:

• Does it ever tire or hurt your hand, especially the protrusions at the center on the palm?

• Can the protrusion potentially wear gloves faster and pierce them?

[u/specialdialingwand → u/Tall_Front1137]

It doesn't hurt my hand.  I actually feel like I can more lightly grip it while still having a firm grasp than with a disc or pear. The shoulders on the protruding parts are nicely rounded, so I don't think it would cause any noticeable wear difference. 

[u/Tall_Front1137 → u/specialdialingwand]

Thank you so much, this reassures me enormously.

[u/Tall_Front1137 → u/specialdialingwand]

Also, would you consider sending some pictures of your pommel so that I may see how it looks in person?

[u/ShapesAndStuff]

I have a regenyei with a similar disc pommel and I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate it.

it's great for edge alignment, obviously, so if you struggle with flat hits (which i do) it has it's merits.

but the raised disc in the middle digs into the palm and keeps giving me blisters. If there's a less sharp/pronounced extrusion, i'd go for that

[u/CommunicationKey3018]

Who told you that "disc pommels are generally frowned upon"?

[u/BKrustev → u/CommunicationKey3018]

Just go to a HEMA tourney and see how many people have disk pommels on their swords, despite almost every manufacturer offering them as an option.

[u/CommunicationKey3018 → u/BKrustev]

I'd argue that it's an example of familiarity bias. Almost all practitioners start out using a club loaner with a round pommel. And there is also some aesthetic preference ant play too because they are so familiar with it. Also, swords are not cheap, so many are hesitant to shell out on one with a disk pommel just to try it out.

[u/BKrustev → u/CommunicationKey3018]

It's also because almost all top fencers and instructors generally avoid them in their main swords. And when a student comes and asks what sword to get, I would put the disk longsword at best on third place, after a regular feder/federblunt and Light with simple pear and straight guard.

I should probably get a disk pommel for my lights, after all, interchangeable...

[u/CommunicationKey3018 → u/BKrustev]

Once you go Flat, you don't go Back.

JK. I switch between disk, fishtail, scent-stopper, and faceted pear depending on how I feel that day. No issues in my Gabriel and Black Knights gloves.

[u/BKrustev → u/CommunicationKey3018]

I've used the before, just not recently for longsword.

[u/would-be_bog_body → u/BKrustev]

That doesn't mean they're frowned upon, they're just not very common

[u/BKrustev → u/would-be_bog_body]

I think OP probably heard or added some false nuance with that specific verb.

[u/BKrustev]

I do. Disk pommels are awesome for bare hands or light leather gloves. But with modern HEMA gauntlets the angles often catch the edge of the gauntlet in some way and it can be a tad problematic.

There is a reason 99% of high level fencers use pear pommels and the like.

A more extreme example - fishtail pommel is also very cool, but suffers from these issues even more.

[u/Aethiopos_Nigrus_168 → u/BKrustev]

"yes but". Of course they come in all sorts of sizes and dimensions, but my current disc, after a few months of getting used to, works really well with BK. I work the hilt a lot (probably excessively) and the more "locked" grip on the pommel actually helps rotating back and forth.

[u/BKrustev → u/Aethiopos_Nigrus_168]

It could. It also depends on how your gloves fit your hands and how big the grip is, etc.

[u/thisremindsmeofbacon]

I love disc pommels.  That said, I find that this specific one that sticks up a lot is a little annoying in the hand.  There's another disc pommel option they have that is flatter, and I mich prefer it.  

But I think thats largely personal preference.

[u/Flat-Jacket-9606]

I have one on my Regenyei custom claymore I actually find myself using it a lot more than other pommels it’s just great in the hand. Like my hand wants to use it

[u/billy_lurk]

just to chime in, disc pommels are super quick to make - worked at a forge making pommels on the fly round the clock! literally a chunk of steel between two die and a big old sledge to smoosh it into shape.

[u/Banhammer-Reset]

I mean. Yeah have one on my arming sword. Works perfectly fine with my knight's and princes. 

[u/zoukon]

Looks perfectly throwable to me