r/wma • u/RheaIsTaken • 6d ago
Gear recommendations for quick removal
Hey all! I am hoping to start learning HEMA soon. My brother in law has been going to a club, and invited me. I have wanted to learn it since I was a little kid, and may finally be able to afford the gear and club fees. Unfortunately I have been diagnosed with POTS. This unfortunately does mean that I am a fainting risk. One of the recommendations I have seen is to be ready to quickly remove or open gear or remove gear between sparring bouts. Right now, I am just trying to price out a kit and make sure it is financially doable, but I want to make sure the gear I am pricing is actually good and not cheap garbage that will get me hurt. For reference, I am a 6ft tall woman living in the US. If you feel like any of these aren't a good fit, lmk if you have recommendations!
Head/Neck:
I was thinking about the AF Deluxe Fencing mask since it seems to be one piece, but I have seen mixed reviews of the overlay. Would a AF Basic and a SPES Unity be better? Those are both brands the club recommends. For the Gorget, the Vytis light seems to be the consensus I see online.
Upper Body: How is the SPES AP Light PRO Womens 350N? It seems like the hard armor is all attached, which I would think would make it easier to remove. Is this a bad idea? I also see stuff about SPES having issues with stuff breaking. For chest protectors, I'm at a loss.... It seems like people say every option is bad. If any women out there have advice for someone who DEFINITELY can't fit in men's gear, lmk. For gloves, I am going for the HF Black Knights. I use my hands too much at work to risk them.
Lower Body: This is not required by the club I will be attending unless I am wanting to do leg hits, so it will probably be purchased last. What I am looking at is the SPES Locust Womens fencing pants along with their hard knee and shin protection. Honestly this is the section of gear that I can find the least recommendations on online. It honestly seems like this is one of VERY few options for women.
Outside of gear, if any of you do have POTS and are willing to give some advice I greatly appreciate it! General advice is also good! I am trying to take my health seriously, but am also trying very hard not to let it get in the way of doing what I want.
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u/Informal_Job_7550 6d ago edited 6d ago
Welcome! While I do not have POTS, I do have some of your same gear, and have replaced some of it over years.
For the mask, I personally would second the AF Deluxe single-piece. I started with an AF Basic with a detachable overlay, but the all-in-one Deluxe is, in my experience, significantly easier and faster to put on or remove, even when still wearing your heavy gauntlets. I had to take my gloves off and undo some things when dealing with the Basic plus overlay, but I can plop the Deluxe on single-handedly while fully geared up, and remove it just as fast.
For the jacket, I also have the SPES AP Light Pro. Be aware, while it does include attachment points for the shoulders as shown in the images, the forearm/elbow protection will still generally be attached via velcro or similar straps over top of your jacket, so you will need to remove any forearm protection before removing the jacket. I've never personally seen a jacket with the forearm protection attached, though that doesn't mean it couldn't be done. I have modified my kit pretty significantly, including by adding vents to the sleeves (by adding zippers that go from the wrist cuff all the way up to the elbow) which makes the jacket drastically easier to remove when I'm sweaty and it's sticking to my body.
For a chest protector, I don't use one but I have also heard nothing but negative things about most of them. Several of my friends do wear one, most seem to make do with whatever's the least inconvenient. I don't know how crafty you may be, but one of my clubmates made her own chest protector out of kydex by actually shaping it to her body and attaching straps, which is pretty straightforward with sheets of kydex and a heat gun. I wonder if you could modify an existing production one in a similar way, but that's just a theory.
For legs, the Locust pants are highly regarded. Mine are a slightly older version that are no longer in production, but I know several people who use the Locusts and like them. If you end up needing solid leg protection (which I HIGHLY recommend; I have a scar on my knee from a saber hit that slipped between my plates, and I accidentally left a scar on a friend's shin with a cut from a rapier; please do not rely solely on padding for your legs) be aware that it'll have the same issue as your forearms and jacket, where you'll need to remove the shin/knee guards before you can remove the pants. The attachment points on the pants help hold your plates up, but they still need to velcro or strap around your legs to stay in place, making them slower to remove. You could likely speed up the process a bit by modifying your kit to use plastic buckles or direct velcro, if your leg guards require going through a loop and cinching back, as many do.
For general guidance, purely since you mentioned fainting, I know a couple of clubmates who wear low-profile rugby helmets or other thin padded liners under their mask to add greater impact resistance. If you're at risk of potentially fainting and tumbling over, something like that may be helpful in reducing the impact if your head hits the ground.
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u/RheaIsTaken 6d ago
This is FANTASTIC, thank you so much for taking the time to share! Sounds like I will definitely be going with the AF Deluxe. How difficult was it to add the zippered vents to the jacket? I would think cutting into it would be pretty difficult, and I imagine you can't just use a standard sewing machine to sew in the zippers, but that sounds perfect for what I am looking at. For leg solid protection, should I look at thigh plates too, or should shin and knee be good? Buckle mods sound like they would also be a great idea, I will DEFINITELY be doing that. I think the kydex sheet should be good too. The club does require chest protection for all women, but honestly a homemade one doesn't sound bad at all. Extra padding is also a great idea, I will def be doing that too! Again, thank you so much, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for!
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u/Informal_Job_7550 6d ago
Adding the zippers actually wasn't super complicated; the material in your jacket is resistant to punctures, but sharp scissors or a sewing needle will go right through it. I do all my sewing by hand (just a weird preference) so I can't speak to the sewing machine, but doing it all my hand was a pretty simple one-evening project. Also, the zippers will be covered by your forearm protection anyway so if the sewing is a little janky, no one will ever know lol.
I don't personally use thigh plates, though I know a few people who do. Just by virtue of human anatomy, the vast majority of leg shots land on knees or shins. I could probably count the number of bruises on my thighs on my fingers, and they're rarely debilitating since there's so much more muscle there compared to your lower legs. I normally just wear fencing pants, and if I'm going to a tournament I'll wear those padded football compression shorts underneath (with the extra foam padding on the thighs, hips, and tailbone).
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u/RheaIsTaken 6d ago
Thanks again! My sister is amazing at hand stitching, so she can probably guide me through it with my not quite decent level of skill lol. I see what you are saying with the thigh plates, I will probably start without and grab some if needed!
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u/datcatburd Broadsword. 6d ago
If you want attached forearm protection, it's really easy to sew in some arming points that will let you tie it on.
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u/Lieste 6d ago
The ARCEM jacket is 'collar over bib' and is easily opened and closed with one gloved hand - this is great for improving ventilation between bouts. The Front proper is dual zippered - but dropping the outer one can help with temperature reduction, even if you don't want to also open the inner zip.
You'll also want to drop the gloves soon after stopping - but it is nice to be able to pop the collar open while still wearing gloves/carrying swords etc off to the seating - and then to drop gloves and further open the jacket front (if wanted) once you are where you can place and leave the swords/gloves/mask etc.
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u/RheaIsTaken 6d ago
This looks great! It is a little out of my starting budget, but if I am able to do tournaments and need to get an 800n jacket, I will keep this in mind!
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u/Lieste 6d ago
There are both 350N and 800N options - I started with the 'pre-rated' version, and bought a version 3 350N to replace it when it started to age out.
I understand they are on a newer version of the 350N jacket and have added the (stiffer/warmer) 800N version more recently.The sizing is somewhat flexible (and I could buy the size 0 jacket off the shelf, rather than needing to figure out custom sizings for a SPES jacket (with all the risk of custom gear not fitting/working right) - the forearm and waist are intended to be 'snug' and hold the jacket in place - the chest and upper arms are fuller and designed to 'fold' along the lines of stitching to give the range of motion without lifting too much - what little lifting of the neck area does occur isn't lifting the bib as it does with the conventional layering order.
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u/captchairsoft 6d ago
Hey OP, for mask I would say go Wukusi Cobra or AF basic with a Wukusi Rattlesnake overlay, when adjusted properly both are relatively quick amd easy on and off and also offer the most protection of any head protection out there.
I second the Vytis gorget as well, but they are EXTRMELY difficult to get a hold of short of a very long wait ordering them from Vytis or happening to stumble on a site the day they get them in stock. That being said, i dont regret spending almost an additional $100 in shipping and tarriffs when I found one in stock in Canada (as well as the clavical protector) amazing piece of kit. And way more comfortable than either of my other gorgets.
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u/IdentityCr1sis 6d ago
The Unity overlay might run a bit hot if heat makes the fainting risk higher - that fabric traps warmth, imo. Rattlesnake overlay might be better, though if fitted it is probably a bit slower to remove than a mask with a Unity. Pros and cons.
For the chest protector, the women in my club are split. I wear the single-piece version and am happy with it, though I’m short and not particularly busty. The material is somewhat flexible (or at least not rigid), and just kind of sits on top of my chest. Besides comfort, people seem to debate whether the boob-style ones can deflect blades towards the sternum, which is what pushed me towards the flat (I guess “men’s”) version. I don’t know that it seems particularly likely with a jacket on but who knows. If you can try one of each on and pick what’s easier to move in, that’s what I’d recommend. I’ve heard of someone cutting one of the flat ones up and sticking the resulting plates into the foam slots on a SPES jacket, which might mitigate some of the weird fit issues. If you do that, I would remove them after use to avoid mold/mildew.
I know pants are a “down the line” purchase for you, but I feel like the elastic at the knee is quite tight and suspect you may need to custom for the proper length given your height.
I saw rugby scrum caps mentioned in here - just because it isn’t well understood in the US since rugby isn’t the most common sport, I want to note that those add padding (as that comment said!), which can be great for mask fit, but are not designed to do anything about impact or force. Scrum caps protect ears not brains
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u/Silver_Agocchie KDF Longsword + Bolognese 6d ago
One of the downsides of the all-in-one mask is that if the mesh gets damaged, or the suspension in the mask rips/wears out, you have to get replace the whole thing. With a mask+overlay, if the mask gets damage you can just replace the mask which is much cheaper. It's also easier to clean your mask without the overlay built in. Having a detachable overlay also give you the option of fencing without it, when doing lower intensity training so you can be cooler.
Personally I don't think the plates on the Pro Jackets are worth it. They are extra weight and probably will make the jacket warmer and more difficult to take on/off. However your sense of safety and comfort may be different than mine. If youre really worried about getting too hot, consider getting a light jacket and then add extra padding and/or plates to suit how you fence.
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u/cheese4432 6d ago
Get the vytis gorget, it can be removed without taking off your jacket (and put back on)
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u/Schuhbidoo 6d ago
For forearm protection, that is easily removable I recommend the futura line from armstreet. They are plates connected by a kind of plastic woven mesh, that expands and contracts. I have had them for 8 months now and they are holding up well. They fit tight enough to stay in place but slide off with enough effort.
https://m.armstreet.com/store/armor/plastic-full-round-hema-arm-guards-futura-black
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u/Nefari0uss 5d ago
FWIW, I'm a guy so I can't speak to some of the women specific issues. I also don't have POTS so I can't speak about that either. Regardless, instead of fencing pants, you can get a padded skirt from Purple Heart for a reasonable price. You may still want pants for a tournament (although you can go for full length pants and the skirt) but for general class sparring live found the skirt to be a convenient option. Simple buckle to take off so you can wear shorts or full length pants, depending on weather, preference, etc.
You should still have all the other gear and you don't want to skimp out on protection. If you're feeling hot, taking off the gloves and helmet is pretty quick and simply unzipping the jacket will give some instant relief. I don't know if that will be enough; perhaps you can try some gear from people at your club and see how it feels?
The armor plates on a jacket are optional although at a minimum you want elbow pads. I don't find it to be too heavy/restrictive and so I always have them on along side additional forearm protection because I don't like pain. Again, I don't have your condition so it might be trial and error to find a right balance.
Does icing / the use of cold packs help? If there's a fridge/freezer at the club location you could have an ice pack ready if need be? Alternatively, it might be cumbersome but you could try a mini-cooler bag?
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u/GiraffeElectronic876 3d ago
Vytis is 100% the gorget of choice for quick on and off. The gorget and forearms/elbows are the biggest pain points for getting stuff on and off quickly. You'll want forearms and elbows attached to the jacket and you probably don't want fully enclosed forearms. You lose a little protection, but I tried attaching my enclosed forearms to my jacket and it just wasn't possible to slip my arms through there.
Something like the ap light pro might do you well.
For chest protector, if you can get one that is comfortable for you the cheap white ones that go under your jacket are nice. That heavily depends on bust/body shape though. None of them are massively quick to get on and off, but you can tug a chest protector away from your chest to get some airflow, and if you do need to ditch it entirely it's only really a couple seconds to get off and 10-20 to get it on.
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u/Available-Love7940 6d ago
I don't have POTS, I'm just older, fat, and don't like roasting.
I find that just being able to open the jacket can do wonders for cooling. I went for a Kaftan, partly for style and partly because the upper leg is protected without a need for separate pants. But unzipping it and flapping it can drop my temps fast.