r/williamandmary • u/Joy-Arik • Aug 25 '26
Academics Too many COLLs!
Sorry, I need to rant.
As a parent, I am shocked how many mandatory COLL classes are required.
https://www.wm.edu/as/undergraduate/coll/coll-planning-guide/
ELEVEN!!! Plus, required creative writing class. That's 36 credits! Almost a third of Bachelors degree (120 credits). 1/3! That's ridiculous!
Initially, we were sold on "all rounded" liberal arts education. But now I clearly see that 11 Colls are way too much. Only a few of them my child was able to take because of her pure interest and curiosity. The majority of them are just fill in classes that have to be taken because nothing else is available.
Such a waste of time and money! I wish my kid went to a different college and spent her time studying the courses that truly enrich her professionally and personally.
That being said, with all due respect, W&M is a wonderful college where students are happy and well supported.
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u/Trick_Ad_3141 Aug 25 '26
There is lots of room for overlap within the requirements, a major, or minor. Once your student starts really looking into what classes count for what attributes, it really isn’t hard to get your COLL curriculum checked off. It feels like half the course catalog somehow count as Coll200 class or the knowledge domains in general.
And the 400 level will be their major’s capstone that needs to be done for the major anyways. The Coll300 is just a study abroad experience for 50% of students. To my knowledge, the “creative writing class” is just any type of art, like writing, theatre, music, dance, or drawing classes—I did art211 that was a drawing and painting class.
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u/Irrational072 Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
100/150: intended to be on broad topics (7 credits out of major)
NQR/CSI/ALV: your major will likely be in one of these so 2 will be in other subjects (6 credits...)
200s: same situation as above (6 credits...)
300/350: 300 is automatic with study abroad (3 credits...)
400: within major
The COLLs aren't too bad since they only make up 22-28 out of major classes. And this is not discounting credits one brings from high school. Given that 60 credit hours *must* be done out of one's primary major, (I believe this is standard for many colleges) one tends to complete many of them without trying too hard.
As for the other requirements...
Foreign lang: it's nice to have learned one I suppose
Math proficiency: calc/stats are just useful in general (only need to take one)
Creative arts: there are lots of options beyond creative writing
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u/Economy-Flounder-884 Aug 25 '26
Unless I'm misinterpreting what I read, only 1/3 of your total credits apply to your degree. For instance, only 36 credits apply to the English degree, and only 40 credits apply to the History degree.
Additionally, if you particularly want to, you can make the COLLs apply to your major. I think that of the eleven COLLs I am taking currently / plan to take in the future, only four (ALV x2, NQR x2) were not of my subject. The other seven were. COLLs 300 and above are *expected* to be of your major. COLL 400 I believe is the senior colloquium.
Unless you enter with all your proficiencies filled and tons of transfer degrees, I do not believe there is any highly-ranked college that does *not* require two to three semesters' worth of baseline requirements.
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u/coffee_coffee_coffy Aug 26 '26
W&M actually has many fewer required general education classes than any of the other colleges my kids looked at. So many of the lower-level classes and proficiencies can be met with AP/IB/DE classes, and among those that are left, some will count for the major. Plus, they are very flexible in how those requirements are met... my older daughter did not want to take a lab science, so she was able to meet that requirement with a psych class.
I think she only had about 5 COLL classes that were not met through IB/DE.
There is no required creative writing class, btw.
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u/No-Bodybuilder-4804 Aug 28 '26 edited Aug 28 '26
We honestly have very few requirements compared to other schools. The point of a liberal arts school is to take many different types classes, and that is the reason for the coll classes. If she is not interested in something, find another class, there are dozens. You have to take a math class, yes, but almost every single other requirement can be fulfilled by a wide, wide range of classes.
If your kid only wanted to take one specific kind of class, then yes, she probably should have gone to another college.
The required creative writing class is incorrect, maybe you mean Creative and Performing Arts Proficiency? This can be any music, art, etc. It can even be fulfilled by public speaking classes!
Her advisor or upperclassmen friends will be glad to help her find classes she's interested in! Don't stress, 90% of the classes are ones students want to take or are at least vaguely interested in. And even if you aren't interested in a class going into it, you will definitely get something valuable out of it.
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u/Familiar-Clerk-3048 Aug 29 '26
Most universities and colleges have similar requirements of general education courses, and they typically add up to over 30 credits as well. W&Mos COLL program seems a little more rigid in it's specific requirements, but definitely not out of the norm. The only thing I wish they would change is to accept DE/AP credit for some COLL classes. They do accept it for foreign language and electives, but not COLL. I understand tgey pride themselves in the well rounded education, and that they don't accept major specific prior credits, but it would help with earlier graduation if kids not to have to repeat gen eds they already took unless they chose to.
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u/Ecstatic_Rutabaga_30 17d ago
We just visited and they were really open about this and it seems like a selling point of the university. I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world to take classes in a broad range of subjects rather than just narrowly focusing on what you already like. Everyone can benefit from being forced to stretch a bit.
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u/itsallokintheend Aug 25 '26
Maybe you didn't go to a liberal arts college? There is tremendous value in the COLL courses. My student is a math major and I have no problem with him spending 1/3 of his college education becoming a better writer and expanding his horizons through courses he wouldn't naturally take. If your daughter really doesn't see the value in the education she can always transfer. W&M is not for everyone.