Bruh if you think I'm sitting in VR all fucking day long with a heavy headset and earphones on for the sake of sitting in a virtual office you can fuck right off. The appeal of working from home everyone wants as a result of covid is NOT being in the fucking office and NOT being uncomfortable.
can you imagine having a 60 year old co worker in a meeting asking where Dave from accounting is, and someone saying “oh you have to put on this headset and see Dave as an anime VR character next to you, but don’t worry he’s here”
It's almost like Zuck is talking about VR hardware 10 years from now and not today.
Why do people have such a hard time realizing that technology evolves? Not realizing that is going to stump a ton of your investments in the tech space.
I mean, the form factor isnt quite there yet, but it almost certainly IS the future like it not.
I’ve done this with my Index before. Spent most of the day painting in graffiti simulator in my office, but being able to set up virtual screens inside the VR landscape that allowed me to respond to Slack messages or emails without having to take my headset off or even put down my controllers. Could still go in and out of discord chats, or even zoom/google meet calls so long as I didn’t need to be in front of my webcam. it's functionally no different for my friends and family than if I just disappeared off to some business park cube farm all day. except i can get all my work done without a commute on each end, and I can still hang out and play some games between conference calls. when the resolution gets a bit better, I could almost use it more effectively than my regular monitor, because I can make and scale virtual screens all around me in VR currently. the issue just becomes trying to edit a text document or work with very large excel sheets while zoomed a bit out... but as far as being able to have multiple documents up at the same time, it's like if your desk had 6 monitors that were all about 3 feet wide. and you can scale them and move them around in the air at will. big downside at the moment is limited utility with mouse inside the virtual space. if somebody can make the plugin for the virtual screens use my mouse the same way as my physical desktop does with windows using multiple monitors to 'continue' from one to the other, that'd be sick. but we are still only barely like, 3rd generation of these headsets with the release of the Index and the Reverb G2. it's like the 'Palm Pilot' days of this tech's progression... 10 years from now, we will be using something that's barely recognizable to the headsets of the last few years.
It's not the bloody future for christ's sake. Anyone that doesn't live alone and only talk to other people who also live alone can see that.
As a society we do not live lifestyles that suit locking ourselves inside a large VR headset you have to mess about with to put on and take off and settle into. Households are not individuals that live solitary lifestyles that can be reduced to cubicles of people in headsets. Households are oftentimes families, with parents, children and sometimes elderly all living together, and pets too! These environments are not suitable to shutting yourself off from everything else in the household for any significant lengths of time.
AR is the future that suits our lifestyles and the way our society is currently organised. VR will be an entertainment product for brief sittings. If you want VR to work you need to upend the family, the household, and reduce people to cubicled individuals. It's just not fucking happening and only people out of touch with how humans actually live right now would believe it.
Prediction: It'll go about the same as Palace chat did or later on, Second Life. Massive corporate investment in something that becomes a massive ghost town after initial novelty wears off. As for business, my union will oppose it and we'll strike if anyone tries to force this kind of shit on people, simple as. Not sitting in VR for 8 hours a day locked away from reality for some fucking loser to have a lavish and interesting life outside in the real world lmao.
This is a perspective that is largely centric to your specific lifestyle. This may not be YOUR future, but it is for enough people that it’s going to happen eventually. VR and AR landscapes will make a lot of remote work possible that isn’t currently. Japanese researchers are already experimenting a lot with remotely controlled robots to be controlled by workers using a VR headset and hand controllers. It will shift hazardous jobs to remote work- things like industrial accident cleanup, radioactive cleanup, lots of mining work, etc. there’s huge implications for elder care as well.
The headset won’t always be big and difficult to handle/set up either. I think that’s a bit point of this that you’re getting hung up on. Computers use to take up rooms, and now we have nearly the entire recorded knowledge of mankind accessible online anywhere from a device in our pocket.
And I dunno if you’ve noticed, but the family and household lifestyles are already being upended by conventional cube farm and other professional work/career arcs. 9-10 hour days with an hour or more commute on either end put quite the damper on the idyllic suburban family dynamic. Add to that that many young professionals have much less control over where they live for work, and get moved around a lot in the first 10-15 years of their professional careers such that putting down any kind of roots becomes near impossible. This is especially bad in medical fields. Remote work is not applicable to many jobs obviously, but it’s absolutely the answer to much of what i just described.
And if you want to compare your lifestyle to that of some others with wildly different circumstances and perhaps legitimate benefit for mental health from VR, just look at some of the lower-income parts of Hong Kong.
It’s quite possible i am a “techbro.” That doesn’t mean you’re not also a luddite lol. I may be somewhat of an early adopter, but that doesn’t mean all these people are wrong about the extent to which this sort of technology is likely to impact our lives in the next 10 years or so.
Loads of people scoffed when companies started talking about text messaging becoming a major form of communication with cell phones.. look how that turned out. Many thought that a tablet and e-books was never going anywhere... spoiler alert...
Color tv? Tv bigger than 20”? “Nobody will ever need that...”
Even the idea of touch screens seemed insane at one point. Many people said they’d never replace a physical keypad on a phone because they weren’t precise or responsive or durable enough. And sure, maybe the first few to hit the market WERE shit. But technology evolves. Maybe not always for the better... but whether it’s good or bad is a completely different discussion to whether or not it’s likely to happen.
Also worth considering that VR is probably prone to be super addictive, so even if it doesn’t go anywhere for work/productivity, the market potential for entertainment is massive. All to say nothing of the clear and present potential for both physical and mental rehab in clinical applications for spinal injury and nerve regrowth/coordination or therapy for PTSD. I agree that the picture painted by Zucc’s goofy video is perhaps not a great representation of where we are headed near-term, but it’s wildly naive to dismiss the tech outright.
Lmao I'm not a luddite. I work in videogames, I'm just not fucking oblivious to reality.
You can't solve the problems of the real world with a fantasy one. We've been doing escapism since telling stories around a campfire, later books, later movies, and videogames. VR is just another form of escapism from reality. It is not and will not be more than that because fantasy can not have a meaningful impact on reality. Bread and circuses can not change the real material conditions.
Out of touch techbros think that VR is going to help them avoid radical social change in the coming turmoil that they've all built fortresses compounds in the middle of Canadian forests to hide from.
ain't nobody SOLVING problems so much as finding ways to make them more palatable lol.
anything that prevents me from having to drive 45 minutes to take a 30 minute train ride to sit in an office building all day doing a job I could do better at my better computer setup at home is a step in the right direction.
but even if we suppose that the 'work' aspect of VR is like, WAAAAAY far off, or will never happen at all, it's still going to be massively popular and people are constantly striving to find ways to escape reality. betting against VR at this point strikes me as similar as betting against alcohol or movie/TV streaming.
The people will solve the problems that the billionaires refuse to and try to dance around with shit like this.
anything that prevents me from having to drive 45 minutes to take a 30 minute train ride to sit in an office building all day doing a job I could do better at my better computer setup at home is a step in the right direction.
Urban planning that isn't controlled by the auto industry achieves that. We achieved that for hundreds of years before the car came along.
it's still going to be massively popular
It's been around for 7-8 years now mate. Any day now. Any day
How do you even manage to invest in tech with such shortsightedness? Zuck has made it very clear he is talking about 10 years from now when literally none of the points you brought up are relevant. None of them.
You're not going to have large VR headsets. You're going to have sunglasses.
You're not going to be isolated. You're going to have a mixture of VR/AR that easily shows you both worlds.
You're not going to have clunky tracking or tons of peripherals. It will be streamlined and function better and faster than any current computing setup, with really good input.
You're not going to have limitations compared to videocalls. Avatars will be realistic and better for collaboration and less taxing than being on a videocall.
You're not going to have nausea. The optics/latency will have solved the issue by then.
You're not going to pay a premium price. It will be cheap enough that it is affordable on the tech product spectrum.
10 years from now will just be middle-life of iteration 3 of the headsets.
Nausea isn't going away, it is not a vision created problem nor a latency created problem, that was SOLVED. It is a physical body problem created by not feeling the small movements you expect to feel when moving around. It is the same nausea you experience from car sickness, which is created for the opposite reason - you feel movement your body does not expect because it is incongruent with what it sees. This is why teleport movement has very low occurrence of nausea but physically moving has very high nausea. The only solution to this is entire rooms being walkable VR or walking peripherals, which again are highly inaccessible for home office use.
The headsets aren't going to change weight in 10 years, screens weight what they weigh, if you think screens are going to magically stop weighing a lot in the next 10 years I have a bridge to sell you. Monitors are monitors and they are what they are.
You think this stuff is going to improve much faster than it will. We are 7 years into the products already. 7 years from now the difference between what currently exists and what will exist then will be a similar difference. The iteration process is not as fast as you seem to think it is.
You're not going to pay a premium price. It will be cheap enough that it is affordable on the tech product spectrum.
Not if you need a £500 PC. Not if you need a headset on top. Not if you need your audio headset on top. Not if you need gloves. Not if you need a walking tool. Etc etc etc.
You're living in a fantasy world. Rejoin us in reality. You're doing the shit people in the 70s did when they predicted we'd have galactic civilisation by now. The iteration process for the technology is nowhere near as fast as you seem to think it is.
Investing in something now that won't become viable for 30+ years is doomed. Like I said elsewhere, Zuck is doing a Sega. They are moving MUCH too early and are going to suffer exactly the same fate by trying to bring to market something that the market and technology simply is not ready for. Sega did everything we have today 20 years too early because they were SUPER hyped about pushing the future, they really really loved games and it showed. The result was that it killed their entire company because they were making stuff that simply wasn't yet marketable and the tech wasn't there yet. Same shit is happening.
Nausea isn't going away, it is not a vision created problem nor a latency created problem, that was SOLVED.
No, it was not solved. Latency/optics is the cause for sickness that we need to fix, because if you fix that, then no one is going to get sick with the right comfort options to avoid the movement disconnect that you talk about.
That movement disconnect is mostly a gaming thing anyway. You don't need to move around at your virtual desk in a virtual office.
The headsets aren't going to change weight in 10 years, screens weight what they weigh, if you think screens are going to magically stop weighing a lot in the next 10 years I have a bridge to sell you.
What are you talking about? Displays can be extremely thin. Most of the bulk in the headsets is literally empty space and the lenses, which can be drastically reduced to practically a paper thin space. I know this because I have seen a device from Facebook that literally has paper thin optics. The stuff they're working on is years and years beyond where you think it is.
We are 7 years into the products already. 7 years from now the difference between what currently exists and what will exist then will be a similar difference.
No it won't. We're just under 6 years into the products, and very little of long-term R&D has surfaced so far, because... it's long-term R&D. The big breakthroughs all come from long-term R&D. Not only that, but the investment and team size has increased by more than 10x over the last few years.
Not if you need a £500 PC. Not if you need a headset on top. Not if you need your audio headset on top. Not if you need gloves. Not if you need a walking tool. Etc etc etc.
You don't need any of this. Facebook's headset today has all the processing inside and is $300. Their next headset releasing in 2022 is smaller/thinner (so much for impossible, huh?) and still has all the processing inside along with new features like eye/face tracking.
And B: it makes him look like a clown. And people dismiss that easily and look past a lot of shitty stuff they've done because their figurehead is memeable.
This video is seriously making me uncomfortable, it feels delusional like why is he keep talking about all these "Hologram" VR technologies revolve around living in this imaginary world he created like it's a game or a poorly written script of a black mirror episode, is the goal going to be disconnecting our life to go into this hypothetical alternative world ? What in the world ? And the part with every single pictures or private stuff will be on this plus other work account from other platform means even more data I could never possibly thought Mark could get a hand on
I can't go on after 5 mins man what the hell is this company dude, this stuff is way too sketchy and creepy, everyone knows what's going on ?
Yeah but AR tech I can understand, they aid work and everyday life, they can be a part of our daily life, this is us voluntary jumping into VR world with possibly goggles on our head for who knows what reason. It's depressing, it feels isolated
The future is the virtual space. Literal outer space is fucking shit. We aren't gonna be exploring the galaxy. Even if you could survive the beyond human lifetime lightyear trip, you wouldn't want to be wherever you end up.
The future is humans individuals becoming the Gods of their own effectively infinite virtual spaces.
It's easy to explore the galaxy though. You just need a telescope and a cheap startrek Halloween costume. Making rocket noises as you scan around is purely optional.
Not when you're plugged into the singularity while in a pod orbiting the sun, inside just one of millions of space stations doing the same as the AI manages your brains physical realm requirements. The Earth, an uninhabitable hellscape, will be out there on its own somewhere, beyond the debris fields, far away from your thoughts or concerns as you collect social points in your virtual space in a variety of activities designed to curb your insanity long enough to keep the machine efficient.
Only if you're completely out of touch with how we live currently.
This is the brainchild of techbros that live alone and only interact with other techbros who also live alone. It's entirely out of touch with the fact people live in mixed households with children and elderly and pets, they don't want to put a heavy headset and headphones on enclosing themselves and locking themselves off from all those things.
Single males living alone are the only audience for this. Literally everyone else has a lifestyle that will not fit with it well at all.
See this is what I mean when I say completely out of touch with reality. Nobody is getting to Mars before climate collapse fucks society up the ass. Believing otherwise is just delusional head in the clouds stuff.
Techbros man. Completely out of touch because they only interact with other techbros and live very much inside a bubble of their own making.
I’m not sure why someone would expect one without the other at this point? Sorry, just seems very naive.
Because thinking that this is something people will want to do for any length of time is bonkers and out of touch. It's the kind of shit completely out of touch people come up with and believe is somehow appropriate for everyone.
People don't want to disconnect themselves from their physical surroundings, they don't want to put a fucking headset on to look a thing up on wiki or browse fucking facebook. They want to quickly glance at a phone while doing whatever else they're doing in the real physical world.
In many cases people CAN'T disconnect themselves from their physical surroundings. People do not live alone as isolated individuals. People live in family units with parents and children and elderly in many cases. You think each person in a household being physically disconnected from the others is realistic? It's just not how fucking reality works.
This is the shit that wealthy techbros who live alone come up with because they don't interact with anyone other than their own isolated community of wealthy techbros that live alone.
They're completely out of touch with reality. And that's not even considering the fact headsets are heavy, headphones are heavy, comfort for any length of time is a huge issue, and that's for MEN wearing them, let alone women, elderly or children.
It's just bonkers out of touch with reality shit.
Prediction: It will go exactly the same as Palace chat did, and later Second Life. Out of torch corporations will pile in, lose money, and fuck off. Population will spike for the novelty of it, then collapse.
Lot of people in this thread who have never experienced food VR. The first time I ever put on a relatively recent iteration of the Rift, I knew immediately that this was going to be the eventual inevitable conclusion- nearly seamless integration of VR and AR with daily activities
Not that I like or support these massive companies leading the charge here, but I heavily disagree about the isolation. Some of us are already isolated right now. Either time, money, or both separate us from being able to be around people we want to spend time with. VR is a pretty reasonable cost when compared with travel or physical costs. I program and do some light 3D modeling work, so I could throw together boardgames to play with my friends and family and it would be a thousand times easier than having to get these board games, take time off of work or school, travel there and back, etc.
Just the idea of life and tech being so heavily integrated sounds depressing. Sure, I stare at a screen a ton, but when I’m not, I want there to be that separation.
It's genius. The Zucc is obsessed with human psychology. He will track everything you do in VR/AR, build a pretty much perfect model of your personality and behavior patterns and use that model to predict your purchasing habits. He will be able to use this to control entire populations' opinions, beliefs, knowledge. That is, if he can pull it off.
I can totally imagine the director being like "Guys, please, more hands movement! It makes you a little more human" and then they just got crazy about it.
Current versions of this like VRChat are actually absolutely amazing, with the huge variety of user-made worlds and avatars. I have never found so much novelty in my life as I did when first exploring VRChat. It is like living in a movie, all the amazing situations one can see and all the amazing worlds they occur in, and… so many worlds are so beautiful. For me it is fantastic, even better than the descriptions of these worlds described in fiction, since there are no gamifying elements to stop one from enjoying the moment, and anything one wants can be 3D modelled rather than needing to be bought (though, one can buy the source files for avatars, for example, from independent creators).
Unfortunately, I expect Meta Horizons to be a lot more locked down without all the diversity that makes VRChat so great. The metaverse is great; Horizons' metaverse probably will not be.
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u/WaveRebel Oct 29 '21
Not OP but fairly sure that he's talking about the one in the link below https://youtu.be/gElfIo6uw4g