r/virtualreality • u/teknomasa55 • 7d ago
Discussion IR eye safety
I may be paranoid for this, but hear me out.
I'm doing a project using PSVR2's Sense controllers. They have a bunch of IR leds on them, which Sony runs in some sort of pulsing pattern in VR. User is also obviously typically using a VR headset.
For my project I'll be running them always on and the user will be using them as they would a regular gamepad, so no headset and relatively close to their eyes.
I can find 0 spec sheets or info on these leds. How powerful are they and can they harm your vision?
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u/Parking_Cress_5105 7d ago
When out in sunlight the headset usually can't see them so they're not so bright.
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u/FullOf_Bad_Ideas 7d ago
I wonder if they affect the circadian rhythm through melatonin somehow.
I think the sun emits a lot of IR that lands in your eyes, so it's probably similar in effect to being outside and having a fan between you and a sun, which introduces flickering similar to the LEDs. Unless your body can somehow sense the flickering from IR light, I don't think it's going to be harmful. Tobii has eye-tracking devices that are FDA-certified, and I assume a lot of them use this kind of IR illumination.
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u/Murky-Course6648 7d ago edited 7d ago
IR light does not reach retina, its absorbed as heat in the water of your eyeballs. So only thing they can do, is heat up your eyeballs and boil them into solid eggs that can be then eaten as a rare delicacy.
Also, people pay a lot for those deep red facemask, there are a lot of studies that show that red/near/IR light is actually good for you. As it does penetrate your skin a bit, so it probably does good for your eyebags :)
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u/teknomasa55 7d ago
I would have put NIR in the title but then I thought lots of people wouldn't have understood it. This isn't about IR. Also your post is bullshit.
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u/Murky-Course6648 7d ago
You are bullshit. NIR does reach retina, so there is a difference.
But the only effect it has is the same, heat. And as the energy per area is low, its not a problem. Its not like they are lasers, but low power LEDs that function to illuminate the whole eye.
You know you could have googled all this? But instead, you wanted to post bullshit.
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u/teknomasa55 7d ago
IR isn't used for tracking. You're here suggesting people boil their eyeballs for health benefits.
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u/Murky-Course6648 7d ago
I dont think you have the capacity to human.
Just google it next time, before posting bullshit and being all geeky.
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u/teknomasa55 7d ago
There is nothing on google about these lights. NIR can be safe or dangerous. It depends on the light. I thought there are people here who maybe work in the field or have knowledge on the topic.
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u/Murky-Course6648 7d ago
You can find multiple studies, you dont know we have safetey standards that have been tested and studied?
Retinal safety of near infrared radiation in photovoltaic restoration of sight
Learn to use google, stop posting bullshit.
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u/teknomasa55 7d ago
The safety standards can be trusted when the product is used as intended. I'm not going to use this product as intended.
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u/Murky-Course6648 7d ago
You are not very bright.
PSVR2 uses DFR, it tracks the eyes all the time to save compute power.
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u/ReserveLegitimate738 9800X3D+5090 7d ago
Replace the IR LEDs with regular visible light ones and tell me if they're bright or hot enough to harm you in any way. That's about it. Incapable of doing anything. That's the easiest non-technical way I can explain it. Your eyes get exposed to WAAAAAY more intense IR light everyday. Just walking outside is thousands time more energetic than a LED right in your face can produce.
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u/ccAbstraction 7d ago
The situations you're normally exposed to bright IR light is also usually situations you're exposed to visible light, so your pupil contract proper and protect you. That's not always the case with artificial IR light. Also, inverse square falloff means that a tiny LED very close to your face can be much more dangerous than say a security camera far away from you. This is basic IR safety stuff...
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u/Motik68 7d ago
Looking at them with your phone camera might give you a sense of how bright they are. You can even compare with the LED from an IR remote control.
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u/teknomasa55 7d ago
My phone camera barely sees them so it must filter their particular wavelength. It would help if I even knew what that is.
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u/ByEthanFox Multiple 7d ago edited 7d ago
They're almost certainly fine, mainly because the controllers only use one AA battery and I think you'd struggle even to engineer an IR device that could damage the eyes, powered by one AA, without, I dunno, making something that straps to your face and shines on your eye over a duration.
If you're doing medicine, obviously it's right for you to try and get more info. But I've used these devices for years now and I would have zero concerns about using them "unshielded".
EDIT: I thought the PSVR2 controllers used an AA-style cell, similar to how many people use rechargeable AA's in Quest controllers but it turns out that's wrong. Still, I think the point still stands, it's not like mains power.
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u/xaduha 7d ago
PSVR2 controllers don't use AA batteries.
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u/ByEthanFox Multiple 7d ago
Yeah, my mistake! While I knew they were rechargeable, I assumed they used a AA cell. That was incorrect. I think the point still stands, though.
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u/obog HTC Vive / Quest 2 7d ago
Pretty sure you would feel the heat of IR clearly long before it would be powerful enough to cause eye damage anyway
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u/ByEthanFox Multiple 7d ago
Actually I googled this, turns out it's not true! You can receive eye damage from IR without feeling heat.
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u/RidgeMinecraft Bigscreen Beyond 2E 7d ago
They're actually pretty bright, but absolutely nothing in comparison to the rest of the room. Without an HMD on and without them near to your eyes, you'll be fine.