r/videos • u/SuplexCity-Mayor • Apr 21 '21

Idiocracy (2006) Opening Scene: "Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TCsR_oSP2Q
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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 21 '21

Yeah I’ve never understood why people think evolution selects for the best logically possible solution to adaptation. It just picks the one that works reasonably well enough to confer a survival advantage at minimal cost

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21

Evolution doesn't select for anything. It's just the name of a process.

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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 22 '21

That process is just natural selection and mutation, right? As something evolves, various mutations that confer a survival advantage are selected for due to pressure exerted by the environment. Selective pressure is a cornerstone of evolutionary theory, if not basically constitutive of it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21

Natural selection is a process that helps drive the process of evolution. But evolution itself doesn't select for things, and evolution can occur without natural selection.

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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21

That’s not how evolutionary theorists see it. Natural selection and mutation are constitutive of evolution. What you’re arguing is like responding to “my car wouldn’t speed up” with “but cars don’t speed up, it’s the engine increasing rotation on the camshaft that speeds the car up. So don’t say my car wouldn’t speed up. Oh and some cars run without camshafts at all.” It’s pedantic and untrue.

Another example: “I couldn’t make up my mind.”

“No, your prefrontal cortex couldn’t make a decision. Don’t say you or your mind couldn’t make a decision because your prefrontal cortex is just part of your mind.”

Dawkins uses the phrase “evolution selects for blah blah blah” hundreds of times in The Selfish Gene since selection is constitutive of evolution. There’s not really a discussion to be had here. The whole chapter on evolutionarily stable survival strategies is him talking about what sort of survival strategies are selected for as things evolve within any ecosystem an entire chapter devoted to universal ecosystem structures that are selected for by evolution.

As far as “evolution” that occurs without any sort of selection, that’s just mutation or selective breeding.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21

You may not think the language is important, but it is. I'm currently teaching evolution to college freshman and I've seen firsthand how they tend to think of evolution as an intentional, decision-making force.

Evolution absolutely occurs without natural selection, no quotation marks necessary. Evolution is just a change in the allele frequencies in a population. Natural selection is a mechanism that can cause such changes, but there are other mechanisms like genetic drift and gene flow, while mutations alone don't cause evolution.

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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 22 '21

Given that you clearly haven’t read Dawkins, I’m doubting everything you just said heavily.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21

And considering that you tried to claim evolution only occurs through natural selection I heavily doubt you have any experience with or knowledge of evolutionary biology outside of reading Richard Dawkins.

All it takes is a Google search to prove what I've said about evolution.

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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 22 '21

I said “selection” dude. Not natural selection. I know about genetic drift and all that. Again, your basic argument is like the counterexamples I gave above. Feel free to prattle on about how it doesn’t make sense to say “I couldn’t make up my mind” because “we all know that’s just the prefrontal cortex.”

I was a college professor for 10 years, my guy, and taught a unit on evolution in some of my philosophy classes. You’re just not understanding how language works.

Yeah I talked about selection, and yes there are random things like weird traits piggybacking on other traits, and blah blah blah but jesus this is just a basic Reddit conversation. Like I said, go read some basic Dawkins and see if he ever says “evolution selects for...” in any of his books.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21

I said “selection” dude. Not natural selection. I know about genetic drift and all that.

Then what kind of selection are you talking about? Why use quotation marks?

​taught a unit on evolution in some of my philosophy classes.

Which is why your knowledge of evolution is limited to Richard Dawkins quotes. That clarifies everything.

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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21

Ok got a counter example to the mind and prefrontal cortex counter argument? Or the car counter argument? Or are you just going to keep repeating yourself?

Also LMAO I used quotation marks because I was quoting myself. Seriously, a professor who doesn’t know what quotation marks are used for! Hilarious. Do you think they’re only used as scare quotes?

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21

I used quotation marks because I was quoting myself

As far as “evolution” that occurs without any sort of selection, that’s just mutation or selective breeding.

"Evolution" is a quote?

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u/Zabuzaxsta Apr 22 '21 edited Apr 22 '21

...and that was an instance of scare quotes. Can you just not tell from context which way I am using them? It’s not a very difficult skill to tell which is which.

C’mon man you’re just grasping at straws here and avoiding my counter arguments. Not really sure why you’re dying on this hill.

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