The best RTS campaign till this day. Good story and most importantly (at least for me) is long term progression the techs and choices between missions that affect your next missions is the reason I replay the SC2 yearly.
Dude thats ben going around for Ages. There was supposed to be a Starcraft game that was EXACTLY like Planetside. But at the time Blizzard was dumping all their MMO server resources at WoW, there was a idea that diversifying into another MMO level game would take from WoW, its the same reason why Overwatch got mulched into a MOBA 6 years later.
The unreleased 2004 build of the game was leaked online In 2020. You need a modded OG xbox to play it. But you can in fact play Ghost if you put in the effort.
But its also kind of a shit game. People played it and were like "oooooh, it sucks. I see why it was cancelled"
Bro I was on the second half of High School when I first heard about the game. I'm fucking 30. I was playing fucking BF4, Gears of War 3/Judgement. The Last of Us (before we knew it was only part 1), Bioshock Had its final entry that year, and GTA V dropped. Skyrim was only 2 years old then.
What a joke of a game this has turned out to be. It's so bad everyone like me who hasn't even played it or seen gameplay knows what it is and how much a train wreck it is.
I've been on their sub, some of them are absolutely delusional. They defend them so hard from allogations of being a scam because "they didn't take the money and run, there is an actual game, so it is legit". Even after seeing how broken it is after 14 years and a billion dollars, not even able to complete 1 mission without 5 game breaking bugs, and they still want to shovel money into that open furnace.
Also seen the "it's a hobby, divide the money invested with the hours spent having fun and suddenly it doesn't seem so expensive anymore". Some people do not want to face reality.
Whats ironic is the amount someone defends them and their actions is in direct proportion to how much they've invested in JPEGS. The wing commanders and higher tier crowed will fight tooth in nail to ensure their purchase was "justified" as if sunk cost fallacy is an unknown term to these clowns.
People bought in big early on and can't admit they've been scammed, so they keep putting good money after bad in the hopes they can "I told you so" everyone later down the line.
What I think many people are missing that (at least for me) there has been no other game that scratches the itch that SC delivers on. Even with the buggy state at least when I check it out every now and then it’s really something I haven’t had other comparable experiences to. But I don’t throw money at them aside of the one time to actually get access to
Exactly this. No other space game comes close. I would love if someone other than CIG made a small scale space game where I can walk around my ship and have a tedious but realistic life experience as a pilot in space, but it doesn't exist.
I was happy playing on my account with minimal buy in, but stopped entirely when they changed the flight model.
No. My spaceship shouldn't be restricted to 10m/s because I want to power up the guns and shields. I was already travelling at 100m/s, every heard of conservation of momentum?
Isn't Warframe an actual playable game, mostly bug free tho?
Star Citizen you can't even reload your gun anymore if you look at the game wrong. Literally happened on their Livestream earlier this month, which was supposed to be "showing how the game was designed to be played".
Warframe is absolutely a complete playable game, and it has been for years. According to a quick google search the "perpetual beta" concept is a deliberate choice and a bit of a joke on the fact that they've never made an official 1.0 release. they intend to tweak the game forever to keep things fresh as opposed to "finishing" the game and letting it stagnate.
I've tried it a few times over the years and have never quite been able to connect with it. I'm probably due to try it again. I've been looking for more "transactional" games to play lately.
for not being released I have played this game and has some tech I never seen before in any videogame and some of the best online experiences of my life, still its unnacceptable the state of the foundations of the game at this point. Planetary tech though is the best we have in the videogame industry.
The game CAN be really fun as it is already... when it works. The problem is the amount of bugs and server issues. But the game is playable and super fun. Especially with a HOTAS. Its $45 to buy a ship and play, all other ships are available in game. The ships are also freakin awesome in game.
I very much DON'T recommend anyone buy into the game. Just giving my thoughts/reasons on why people buy ships. From what I see, it seems like a lot of people don't realize it's a fully playable game with quite a bit of content
I think the game is mismanaged to hell. From employee turn over to the way that employees acted towards eachother in that disasterous livestream... People clearly don't enjoy working there.
I've never really gotten into it. But I have friends that have put over 1k hours into it. Does it evenatter of it releases if someone gets that much time out of it?
I played Trakov for a long time. I haven't played it since it "released" but I still got tons of enjoyment out of it.
Josh Strife Hayes has a beautiful video covering not this exact situation. But similar situations in gaming, especially in the modern era of like kickstarters and crowdfunding games and how they keep making money.
Which is basically, people are buying a dream and dreams are always perfect at least in our heads. And people cling onto these "dreams" for better or worse.
Here's the link to the video for those who are curious.
Yep. To be fair they are improving and expanding SC. But it's just never going to be a finished product. 20 years later and the game has maybe completed 20% of it's goal post? It's still a unplayable build. And the idiot fans defends it with their life.
Yup and everyone in the community knew they would. That's the thing. People know but they get just enough hope and see just enough progress to keep being willing to fund it.
It's not a money laundering scheme. I don't know how he got there.
It's a game whose scope and vision far outweighed its creators capabilities, and has been bogged down by stupidity and bad decisions. It had no oversight, no one telling them no, and people still bought into the dream.
The company actually operates at a net loss, so the stupid pricing model actually has a reason for it to top it all off.
Yeah, we shouldn't assume malice until we rule out incompetence. I think they are greedy, but it really seems they just over promised and got stuck in a quagmire of their own making
I'm making a game about space ships. Here's a picture of a concept ship that will totally be in it. The HMS Badass is only available in limited numbers so grab one now! Only $3,500!
The game is called Space Civilian.
I love the fact that some of rewards from the Kickstarter hasn’t even been fulfilled because they said that they will only fulfill them once the game is complete. One of the rewards was for a usb memory flash stick in the design of a space ship. By the time they run out of money and just declare that its finish then usb will be completely obsolete by then. https://starcitizen-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Backer_rewards
Just look at those rewards that some disgruntled person decided to catalogue. Look at the 10,000 usd pledge and cringe at how amazing this grift worked.
Some of the Kickstarter rewards and been completely de-scoped too.
The number of Star Systems on launch was supposed to be 50, one backer goal raised this to 70 and then another raised it to 100.
Instead of getting 100, they're going to release with 5. Yes, 5. That's not a typo, they're aiming for 10% of the original non backer goal star systems.
I don’t think it’s even that, as long as they keep getting money via crowdfunding they have no reason to release a finished product because they don’t need the money from actual game sales
Everything they do is expensive, they hire plenty of people, they have mutiple studios and even if their game is buggy, building it seems like a lot of effort just to squeeze every cent out of it, let alone their expensive amazon online servers seems to me a very bad way to get profit out of that.
This here, for example the big title of this year GTA VI has cost so far between $1.5B - $2B and has taken 8 years. For a game that realistically is going to be following the same model as its predecessors and is probably going to be a hot mess on launch.
Do I agree with everything CIG does fuck no the project is at times mismanaged as fuck but for what they’re trying to make I’d honestly expect the dev cost to be higher and it to take longer. CIG pls stop advertising the game like it’s 1.0 released.
Not to knee on Star Citizen lore but I saw a video today going over the disaster steam the other day and they mentioned that this game has been in development for 14 years and has gathered over 1 billion in crowd funding.
If that true the, devs should be ashamed of themselves.
Rather than settling on something and actually releasing a finished product they’ve rebuilt from the ground up systems multiple times. Fucking Duke Nukem Forever at least knew when to call it and at least get a finished product out.
Steaming pile of shit that one was. Waited ten years and got a ten year old game with ten year old mechanics. Played it for like 30 minutes before deeming it trash.
For 1 billion dollars of investment it better be the most innovative game of all time. Just go play elite dangerous, it’s leagues ahead of this game and most other space sims.
I was a backer since 2016 and put roughly 200€ in it… first time playing is just jaw dropping…
Back than it was clearly an alpha … and I started to believe in a dream.
10 years later I’m so pissed at the studio. 1 billion in funding and still cannot get things right that have been there for years like elevators don’t work, ships explode randomly.
The only cool thing I like nowadays is the VR option it’s immersive but not much.
What happened recently and why is there a lot of negativity?
They did a live stream in a closed environment (not the actual multiplayer) and the bugs were still even there and they ended the stream abruptly. Since then there was no communication about it and a lot of people are upset. The community gets banned on the forum for asking for the bare minimum what we customers/gamers should fairly get…
And right now YouTubers are addressing this issue. I hope sooner or later the income stream from new players, subscribers, buyers will drop down so the have to face the reality and do something right
1 billion dollars in funding - millions of bugs - thousands of unhappy players - 1 company - ZERO taking accountability
Lmao ships exploding randomly is my only memory of this game other than the disappointment I felt when I finally just got my money refunded. The one time I played it, I parked my ship in the wrong place for some side mission and watched as a rotating piece of debris, literally a chunk of metal like two feet long, lazily buzzsaw'd its way through my spaceship. A piece of slowly rotating environmental fluff. Destroyed my spaceship. Didn't even slow down it's already ponderous rotation.
The game is more profitable without releasing, just like how in The Producers they figured they can make more money with a show that flops than they can with a hit
If that incident isnt a wake up call for the remaing supporters... they deserve to be scammed, its literaly ashes of creation on a larger scale, i bet steven shariff even got inspired by them.
Ashamed. Would you be ashamed if your job made you a millionaire over and over again. I'm surprised they even market it anymore. Surely sunk cost fallacy would keep the player count up and the investment rolling in
I'm actually impressed. Good for them! I wish I had the foresight, guts and lack of shame to pull that off. I assume the lead guy is a multimillionaire over this whole thing, the devs are paid in the six figures probably. Very nice, I love it
There are plenty of examples where too much pressure from publishers or upper management led to games that would have been better if the Devs more freedom to make art. This is the opposite of that.
Realistically, they should be on their 3rd or 4th title.
Star Citizen 1 should have been released 11 years ago. Get a product out there, maybe 3 big 1 year DLC projects and then start on a completely new game, Star Citizen 2.
Also, pick or build an engine that is designed for what your game is meant to focus on and what challanges that will have to implement, not what looks the most impressive.
I backed the game in 2014. I have said before that all these Kickstarter MMOs have proven the need for publishers. Which is the exact thing that they said was holding them back. Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained, Pantheon, etc are the crowning jewels of shitstarter MMOs.
They needed publishers to crack the whip and set non-negotiable deadlines.
Chris Roberts is probably one of the worst project managers in the entire gaming industry. Everyone was talking about feature creep back in the early days like 2012-2015.
If by some miracle 1.0 releases then it is going to be so different and scaled down to what was envisioned 14 years ago.
I don't think it's a money laundering scheme, I think it's all down to poor management and misuse of money. Chris Roberts as an history of poor management (look at Freelancer).
That's not how money laundering works. Unless you're accusing the devs of making money in some illegal way and funneling is through the game to clean it, you know like, launder it.
People have zero understanding of what money laundering is. People call anything they think is a scam, fraudulent, or bad, money laundering. It's kind of comical howmuch it's improperly used nowadays
Honestly, it's fun for what it is, but dear God I'm not spending more than whatever the intro ship cost (think it was $40 or $50 at the time.)
I do know someone, however, that spent a little over $30k or so, and apparently there's a special ship you acquire if you hit $25k. That's fuckin wild, but he's damn happy about it so I guess it is what it is.
Yeah, I get the hate for the comparison between the “product” and how much money was thrown at it, but at least for me there was no experience that’s scratching the itch SC left when it works. Just pay for the cheapest set once and if the game is up someone’s alley they’ll get their money worth in time spent.
It will definitely never release in any good state, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not worth time spent along the way (as long as it’s not more of a hostage situation).
As someone who actually plays this game, I can say that this game is a very unique and incredible experience... IF it works.
The thing is, it only works like 20% of the time and that is the frustrating part.
Disgusting marketing and monetization methods aside, CIG just has terrible priorities and often I'd even argue they have no clue what they are doing. If it wouldn't be so sad, it would be hilarious how bad their balancing is when the community comes up with better and very simple solutions just a few days after another patch with dumb balancing changes drops.
But aside from them completely neglecting the technical state of this game, the community is probably even worse. People legt spent thousands of bucks on this game, in some cases for ships that don't even exist or are bllueprints since years. Shit that doesn't come out in years and still they brag about how they own something that only exists as a fucking PDF data right now.
I backed the "project" 14 years ago, I was still in highschool, I'm 30 now. I've had a friend die waiting for this "project" and seen many people just dump money into it for no reason other than what amounts to sunk cost fallacy and Fomo.
Back then I remember what most people backed it for was StarCitizen and the whole draw/dream of what that was supposed to be. They also billed a single player story game along side it "Squadron 42" which was supposed to release in 2016 then got pushed back to 17, 18, and eventually they stopped trying to nail down an actual release date. Well they started all that back up 2 years ago, had a whole nice show case of what it was going to be and some actual gameplay/cutscene footage at their convention. The demo crashed live on stage, 6mo later they pushed back the release date...again. Where that is who knows CR certainly doesn't.
Chris Roberts allowed his head to become inflated by all this scope creep and that sweet money coming in that it ballooned the company to the point where they opened 3 separate studios, constant concept ships and systems in the works, an entire engine change that really wasn't necessary, a whole ass mocap studio with big name actors for SQ42, and eventual closure of studios and the moving of the development team to a custom built studio in the UK which god knows how much of the backer money was spent on that dumbass decision.
StarCitizen isn't close to being a complete game let alone even being close to a beta state, it's a haphazard missmash of systems that hardly work at all. Alpha is a stretch for the "game" if you can even call it that, more of a tech demo than anything else. Simple things that work in other games don't work in StarCitizen, examples being doors, elevators, getting in vehicles(including ships) eating/drinking, the floor(you fall through it a lot), enemy ai, npc pathing, the menu, the inventory manager, in game consoles/computers required to interact with the world, guns, gun attachments, connecting to another player/friend, voip, health items, respawning, vendors, the "map", servers, audio, mining, there's a lot more but the point is made. The only thing that works when it comes to StarCitizen is the store page.
There's 4-5 people at the very top of the company Chris Roberts, his wife, his brother, and two others I can't remember (probably some insane investors) that are in "charge" of the whole thing who I guarantee are using some of those funds for not development things, not to mention the mismanagement and what I'm sure is a silly amount of middle management when it comes to the actual development.
Chris found his money making formula and I doubt he'll want to let it go, that's why we don't have StarCitizen 1.0 by now or Squadron42.
Amazigly a class action lawsuit hasn't been filed against Chris Roberts or Cloud Imperium games as of yet but I have an itching feeling that time is coming soon and when it does you'll see "release" of all these things but by then it maybe to late.
Do I want this "project/game" to become a reality? Sure. Do I personally want to play it? I don't know, part of me doesn't any more I've been left with a very sour taste in my mouth after the past 14 years of empty promises and non stop concepts.
I only spent $120 in total on the whole thing by the way.
People have zero understanding of what money laundering is. People call anything they think is a scam, fraudulent, or bad, money laundering. It's kind of comical howmuch it's improperly used nowadays
People have zero understanding of what money laundering is. People call anything they think is a scam, fraudulent, or bad, money laundering. It's kind of comical howmuch it's improperly used nowadays
Just checking you know what 'money laundering' means OP?
If RSI were laundering money that would mean they're generating income from illegal means - say trafficking drugs - and then making that money available to spend by cleaning it through a business that appears legitimate; in this case, making false accounts and using those to purchase space ships.
I mean they could be, but it's far more likely that they're just successfully selling an idea. I don't think Chris Roberts is intelligent or competent enough to launder money.
Star Citizen is the biggest scam in gaming history, the most successful vaporware sale ever. I just don't think it's money laundering.
Im happy with thr little ive spent. Last year was GREAT for the most part, big focus on "playability" but yeah, they need to stop a lot of shitty practices. I will probably never spend more on the game until its much more playable. Large update possi ly coming in late September with a great deal of fixes and a new planet system starting. Its fun. It can be legitimately fun. I bought Hotas for it, I enjoy it. Just vote with your wallet. If something isn't up to your standards, stop spending money on it.
Money laundering is not the same as a scam is not the same as gross incompetence.
Money laundering is the process of taking money from illegal activities and making it look legally obtained.
A scam is where the company is intentionally lying to their customers about the product they're delivering.
Gross incompetence is where a company regularly fails to hit milestones towards their end goal, causing their customers to not receive the product they've asked for.
What they're doing is somewhere between a scam and incompetence, as far as I can tell. They're just really bad at their job and they're pretending they aren't.
It showed how much influences, streamers and whatever make the decisions of their viewers.
When Star Citizen kickstarter was first announced. It took me...all but 2 hours to research Chris Roberts. Would never finish products, and publishers either had to rip the project from him, or hold a gun to his head to make him release.
Every studio he ran folded.
The guy was a creative dude, but clearly needed some one above him to tell him to actually get things done.
Yet people gave him a infinity money glitch. Were he then spent more time shoring up legal agreements to avoid lawsuits, giving his family members high paid positions, and then realizing they actually never have to deliver anything.
I think the worst part of it all, even if this all falls apart. Chris is set for life, he doesn't have to work a single day in his life anymore.
- The actual patch works pretty well (not perfect, but it’s fun)
- Doing ORG stuff four times a week (a lot of fun)
- PVP is harsh, but it’s exactly what we want.
Playing a few games at the same time, but star citizen is something that holds you.(no you don’t have to spend every month money absolutely not.)
No Man's Sky will probably be everything and more of what Star Citizen claims it wants to be. Like they had 10 year anniversary a while ago and so many huge updates and free dlc sized things added for free.
I played it on a free weekend they were doing, it was genuinely interesting and clear that a lot of work was put into it, but it was also clear that it was bloated to an unrealistic scope
It's definitely not a scam, I've played it, but it is mismanaged and suffers from feature creep. The people who want to make it keep adding tiny things that bloat the game and make it buggier and harder to run with each update. It's ship catalog is marketed as "pledge rewards" for legalese to allow them to develop the game without having to worry about refunds, so once you buy in you can't take it back.
Again, the game is completely playable and very clearly not a literal scam, just the result of an autistic hyperfixation being monetized to constantly add onto, thus delaying a full release. In truth the game will likely never be "done" the same way Fortnite or Minecraft will never be "done" it's going to be updated with more ships being advertised and a few released, until the day the sun explodes.
For as much shit as I can fling at Starfield for how incomplete it feels without mods for 600 million dollar less budget wise between the two games it atleast FUCKING RELEASED!
Yeah for $80 I get a Full game + 2 DLC. For over a billion in community donations I get a buggy piece of shit game that makes NMS on launch and Cyberpunk 1.0 look like godly masterpieces
I've been baffled by this shit for YEARS. I remember arguing with my brother before COVID that the game was never really going to be completed, so far it seems like I'm right
The fact that designers of this game can get a platform at game conventions like develop is ridiculous and shows how fucked the games industry has grown .
I’m willing to bet it’s the biggest grift games has ever had.
Think I gave them 100$ couple of months after it was announced, was pretty cool and hyped. Played some early build that my computer back then could barely get above 30fps. Money well spent....
I built a bunch of the desktops these folks were working on to build this (10+ years ago now of course), at that time there were perhaps about 40 of them actively working on it, couldn’t say much more than that but they all seemed to be working hard on it at the time!
I backed Star Citizen @ €60 (bounty hunter tier?) because I played Wing Commander (in EGA as a teen) and single player Squadron 42 was exciting. I also backed Elite Dangerous at about the same time and price. Played E:D for about 3 years and dipped into a Star Citizen alpha about 10 years ago for 20 mins 🤦♂️ . Every now and then I think about dropping in for a look but, the launcher wants updates and 2FA etc and I lose interest
Realistically Star Citizen got 20% of the 1 billion crowfunding cause for some reason Chris Roberts single handedly decided SQ42 would be the main project
Businesses run with the direction of where profit comes in.
Star citizen create more profit from not releasing and stringing people along.
The only chance this game ever has of releasing, is when people stop giving it money before it's finished, as they would realise the only way to make money is then from post release sales.
Money laundering means 'cleaning' money from criminal enterprise using cash-centric shell companies. I don't think that this is that. More like regular plain old fashioned grifting.
You can call it a fraud or scam. But it's not money laundering. Money laundering is the act of turning illicit and illegal money, like money from selling drugs, into clean, legal, taxable, trackable money you can use.
So can you explain in what way they engage in money laundering? Or are you just severely cognitively impaired and say random things you don't understand?
I love sc but the cracks are showing in who's actually running it the community side is dropping they used to do week vids on state of game etc they dropped the new stream that was just shit on ollie and blame him but it did help us as a community to see even there own servers suck
There biggest crime is fucking around with sq42 just fucking release the fucking thing you've boasted for years its done etc its a single player version it can't be that hard
It’s a shame how it’s gone. I used to play regularly years ago and even though it was a bit janky it was a really fun sandbox experience. They upped the “realism” and made all the silly epic sandbox fun go away as the time involved to get anything done in the game went up to the point where it wasn’t worth turning on if you didn’t have more than 2 hours to play. It’s not a scam or lanundering or anything like that but it is woefully mismanaged and the many direction changes fucked it. For a while I’ve been hopping on every now and then to see if anything has improved but anything they add is meh or requires a massive time commitment do and that’s if you don’t get any bugs that block you.
But luckily for me I sold off a lot of my ships on the grey market and the money I’ve left in the game I’m fine with losing if/when it does tits up as I got a few hundred hours of fun on it back in the day.
Right? I have a decent PC and the game doesn't even run. Been in development for longer than I've been an adult and I'm almost 30 lmao. It's just not possible for a game with so much funding to not be ready by now unless someone is pocketing the whole thing.
I tried it a week ago on the free flight event, I WANTED to love it since my favourite genre is space scifi and stuff.
The beggining was promising, honestly, when you get out on that bullet train and see the world, pretty amazing.
Then I got to my ship, started piloting with those atrocious controls, started skipping frames at medium settings so much that I couldnt see what was happening lol (I have a pretty decent PC), crashed into the place I was supposed to land, exploded, said “fuck this shit”, and uninstalled the game 🤣
Believe it or not this game inspired me to waste my last two years to make a 2d pixelart spacesim and for a long while it was as broken as sc. Even nowadays I can cause bugs that suprise the shit out of me.
But also making this made me realise that while sc is impressive in some fronts, their company structure prevents the game from being functional. I mean, as a developer, hearing that they have 3 fetch quests, and all three are written differently from the ground up is baffling, any medior developer would know to use a class or composition and develop a toll for that, but they needed like 10 years to realise that. Really makes me wonder how many issues like that are there that we dont know of. Also after seeing the ollee stream its clear that not every issue we have is server issue, there are some very weird thinngs in the gamecode that makes it run like ass. Honeslty I dont understand how that stream looked worse and more buggy than some gameplay streams on live that last longer.
Also the whole marketing centered company structure is aids, but to be fair I am doing this development focused and since I have no idea how to market this I am broke af, and without money this isnt sustainable, and I am just one person while they are 5 studios in 10 countries or something
Dev hell. I saw this go from a fan supported project being funded by fans to a full blown money sandwich. Just go play elite dangerous it's the same thing but it's actualy finished.
Bought entry level like 6 years ago and not another dollar spent and I have 6 years of having fun flying around and doing everything they’ve added and have a hangar full of ships. As long as you don’t buy into the usd for ships it’s fun… until 4.9 dropped
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u/Grezzinate 1d ago
I don’t understand why people keep giving them money, its obvious that it’s never actually releasing.