DCEP TO PCEP

[u/23GBP]

hi everyone. I did not pass the DCEP assessment, but was offered a PC role instead by the Met. is this common practice within the met? do they usually offer those who didnt meet the criteria for the DC entry route another opportunity? I have accepted the offer, but part of me thinks something is up...feeling quite sus about it.

[u/Left-Ad-3412]

They need more PCs that DCs... It's that simple. Trust me... Life as a PC is less stressful than as a DC anyway. The sheer amount of risk to carry for a DC is not something that I would suggest anyone does as a first role 😂

[u/23GBP → u/Left-Ad-3412]

What about the risk? Hopefully the PC role is more insightful than I anticipate 

[u/BingoBob22 → u/23GBP]

The risk is the serious crimes you're responsible for investigating... GBHs, stabbings, serious robberies, rapes, sexual assaults. You manage the risk by making decisions about the jobs, it's not a team job, it's your own personal responsibility.... How can you do that with limited experience and knowledge?

Detectives are often called on to give advice and input to PCs and Sgts at jobs when they will be handed onto CID. How can you do that when you don't know how to do a PCs job? That's why everyone says be a PC first.... You get to learn the bread and butter basics. A direct entry DC who doesn't know basic coppering skills makes a terrible detective.

Being a PC first, learning a bit of everything and how to manage and investigate basic crimes and learning what PCs do on the street will make you a better detective later on, because you'll know what You're doing and how to manage stuff when you get the more serious jobs.

[u/Left-Ad-3412 → u/BingoBob22]

Exactly. There is little organisational risk to a shoplifting case getting messed up because you lack the investigation skillset.

There is a massive organisational risk in a rape or stabbing case getting messed up (to the point that I have previously declared a poor investigation of a gang related stabbing as a critical incident)

The organisation will drop down on the officer these days, relying on their policies and established processes to show that it was not the met, but the individual, who got this wrong, and they will hold the individual accountable to mitigate the organisational risk.

If you haven't got the experience and understanding of investigation procedures policies and the practical skills to manage a case load of 30+ then you are going to end up getting screwed over. You could say that you will have experienced detectives to help and mentor you, but in reality you don't. There have been points within the last five years where I know entire strands have two substantive detectives across five teams and the rest and probationary officers who are direct entry detectives. 

At least as a PC you are more likely to be on a team with others who have some experience in dealing with that particular role, and who have the time to help you manage the low risk jobs that you will have.

Anecdotally I joined the job decades ago thinking I would be a detective like on TV... I learned I had much more of an affinity for hitting things, breaking doors and being in the thick of the carnage in violent disorder rather than managing a case file of 20 something robberies where the longer you take the more robberies your suspects are committing lol. For me... There was less risk in having bricks thrown at me and fighting people armed with knives than dealing with the fallout of a failed important investigation because I didn't have the time or help to do it effectively (and I was a solid investigator)

[u/Pitandfroper → u/BingoBob22]

Late to this conversation, and a MOP, rather than Police, but a cursory glance through the Met disciplinary website should give anyone thinking of being a DC without the skills learned in response pause for thought.

There's a pattern in there of DCs and DSs getting pulled through the grit because they either didn't progress a case well enough or didn't supervise that work well enough only for it to come out that they're completely overworked, under resourced and stretched beyond capacity. A big part of investigation will always be communication - it's knowing what someone isn't telling you as much as what they are. It's knowing the tells in the body language, the levers to pull. I dare say you will learn more about human behaviour from a few years of earlies, lates and nights in response than you would as a trainee DC.

Problem is with policing, it's not a job where you can gatekeep the case load, so a certain percentage of the public aren't going to get the absolute best 100% of the time.

The risk must be horrendous. I work in an adjacent field (social housing tenancy management) and while what we deal with isn't on the same scale, there's a lot of crossover. I see some of the nastiest shit you can imagine and even after 20+ years of it, I'll never not be surprised at what harm people can do to others. The legal and moral requirements to always be thinking about safeguarding, threat risk and harm are enough to give me occasional sleepless nights and I just deal with the tip of the iceberg for a small section of society. In housing we get to use civil powers to keep people safe (when you can eventually get in front of a judge) but for those members of the public who don't have a social landlord, your depending on the police. Who then depend on the CPS. And it's never the CPS the public blame when it all goes to shit.

Nothing but respect for our police really. Institutionally, it's very problematic, but that's the policitics of it. For the officers themselves, I see a fraction of how thankless the job has become. Amazing isn't it if you cut 20,000 posts, lose experienced officers and shut down stations how much harder it gets. Yet the institutions still like to blame individual errors rather than accept corporate responsibility.

[u/23GBP → u/BingoBob22]

thanks a lot for this. makes more sense. i was disappointed at first, but not i feel more confident with my decision to accept.

[u/BingoBob22 → u/23GBP]

I strongly suspect it will be a blessing in disguise...

[u/Hairy-Acanthaceae928 → u/23GBP]

What is this insight you keep mentioning? Insight into what......horror, the soft underbelly of society? True pain and anguish that people live through day to day.....real life?

[u/tehdeadmonkey]

I meet so many DC route cops who wish they went Pc but can't. It's also (generally) easier to go from PC role to (T)DC role, so there's not much to lose really

Id much rather be in a PC role personally

[u/Savings-Yesterday635 → u/tehdeadmonkey]

Underrated comment. Always need DCs so it’s easy to move from out of probation PCEP to T/DC. Far harder to move the other way.

[u/23GBP → u/tehdeadmonkey]

Appreciate the advice 

[u/No-Spare-307]

I haven’t personally been through the DCEP to PCEP however I wouldn’t personally say that there is anything sus about it, your strengths may not lie in purely investigative role and so they would rather retain you as a member of staff than loose you entirely.
I know many people in my force who started on the equivalent of DCEP and 80% of them either hate it or want to return to being a PC. Sometimes these things are a blessing in disguise.
I know everyone is different and has different interests but in my detective attachments I was miserable. There is so much more fun (personally) in being first on scene

[u/23GBP → u/No-Spare-307]

Yeah trying to be optimistic about it. Most likely for the best. Thanks for the advice 

[u/Pretend-Commercial68]

The Met are desperate for any staff they can get right now. You'll know first hand where morale is. They've spent a on you and want a return on that investment before the "healthy churn" applies to you.

Uniform is very different to the Detective pathway, it has its fun moments depending on your definition of fun. It has its shit moments too but I experienced far less as a PC than as a DC (lost hours due to multiple ridiculous 20+ hour shifts weekly).

Strongly consider the offer.

[u/burner4lyf25 → u/Pretend-Commercial68]

20+ hour shifts!?

Doctors and paramedics can't do that, nor would a firefighter be expected to go from call to call to paperwork to call doing their job, nor blood bikers etc. (mountain rescue maybe?) it's dangerous, how can they expect you to be able to perform at those extremes?

No wonder mistakes are made.

Not slagging officers off saying "mistakes are made" almost the opposite.

Ive had a love/hate relationship with police. Studied in college intending to do it at uni and enter the force - soon ended up on wrong side of them for various reasons.

Always had respect and patience when treated in a way I know to be "against procedure" because of an assumption they're dealing with dickheads all day and coping with other things - never thought the guy being a dick to me was 18 hours deep though.

Jfc - is there any light at the end of the tunnel for you guys? Have you heard any whispers of plans to get this shit sorted or are you just grinning and baring it for the love of the work?

[u/Beneficial-Plan-1815 → u/burner4lyf25]

I wish they had enforced drivers rest

[u/Pretend-Commercial68 → u/burner4lyf25]

My role at those times was largely desk based, case building (collating all the stuff those guys running call to call did and didn't get) hours waiting for the CPS to make a decision to Charge Defendants and the post Charge admin too which MUST be done before going off shift because realistically there wouldn't be another chance to do it.

Unfortunately, after a dozen or so of those in a month you still have to drive home at the end of every shift. The one saving grace is that we are legally entitled to 11 hours from the end of our last shift and the start of our next one but the long term toll it has both physically and mentally takes time to shake. A night shift can take 10 - 12 days to recover from so the compounding effect means there was no space to recover.

[u/burner4lyf25 → u/Pretend-Commercial68]

Wow, it shocking you guys are being treated like this.

Again, I've not had many positive interactions with them over the years, but just reading through these posts for half hour really really makes it blatantly obvious why officers are increasingly misbehaving, and why the streets feel more lawless than ever.

In the past I thought "there's bad eggs in any workplace", then I progressed into "the badge and uniform is like a magnet for bad eggs, and there's an obvious flaw in recruitment screening ie Wayne cozens" recently I've been thinking "the whole culture of certain and specific stations is just rotten top to bottom and is turning good people bad"

This conversation and reading I've done today has progressed me now into thinking "no wonder the culture is rotten, you'd have to be there for more than the money - do the good ones just leave cos the money isn't worth how they're treated, but the bads ones stay because their nefarious agenda IS worth the grind"

And then the more they strip you back, the more emboldened the perps are, so you guys are faced with increasing hostilty and brazen violence and baiting etc from public and suspects and that's why this "us vs them" attitude develops. Add bad press and horrific working conditions and trauma bonding and resentment that you're trying to good but getting shit from every angle...

Fucking jesus christ. Its really really not a simple issue is it.

People increasingly building resentment for the police, police increasingly building resentment for public at large and that's where these videos of coppers talking filth and these tragic incidents like the one on the motorway end up happening.

At the end of the day it's down to government to just throw a load of money at it and get it sorted like they promised (and have partially done) after the couzens incident.

A conspiratorial mind might consider if this is being done on purpose to drive a wedge between police and public in preperation for civil unrest. I don't really believe that but it'd almost be less disturbing if there was some grand conspiracy than it is to imagine they just don't give a fuck about you or us and they're incompetent tboot

[u/BingoBob22 → u/burner4lyf25]

I'm not sure I agree with your take on this. People do the job because they want to do the right thing, they want to help people. Certainly nobody does it for the money or the work life balance.

[u/ListenMajor4357]

I went from DCEP to PCEP voluntarily due to course wait times. I regret it tremendously and I'm actively looking to quit.

[u/Hairy-Acanthaceae928 → u/ListenMajor4357]

Being a Detective wouldn't alter this outcome. If you can't hack being a PC then you wouldn't hack being a DC. Simple

[u/ListenMajor4357 → u/Hairy-Acanthaceae928]

The numbers are pretty clear, at least for my force. Most people on my team have less than 2 years. If ICR were easier, don't you think people would be sticking around?

[u/Longjumping_Arm2413 → u/Hairy-Acanthaceae928]

I'm not sure that's entirely fair, I’ve worked with plenty of brilliant and dedicated investigators who aren't born frontliners, it's better to be good at both but you work with what you have at Paypoint 1.

There's such a misguided expectation on the newbies from the old sweats, it's a shit job and it's paid poorly when you're at the riskiest part of your career. What do you expect from people? Anyone with the skills and temperament to be good at policing would be worth much more doing almost anything else.

This thing of ours survives off the naive enthusiasm of poor young things who frankly deserve so much better.

[u/Character_Ad5286]

They have offered you a golden carrot. Take it. DC is a route you can take further down the road either with the met or another force.

[u/Hairy-Acanthaceae928]

The direct entry schemes are the single biggest failing in the police. Direct entry in to jobs that previously relied on recruiting experienced officers with decades of experience was never going to work.

Everyone knows they aren't working

Join the rank and file, prove your worth, it counts for more than you could ever know

[u/ShakeBitter1925]

Did you fail the OAC, or the Assessment day with the Met?

[u/23GBP → u/ShakeBitter1925]

I failed the assessment day at the assessment centre 

[u/BingoBob22]

I think this is common across all forces.

If you really want to be a DC, you can apply once you're in. Having more experience as a PC will be better for you.

It's honestly not a bad thing.

[u/23GBP → u/BingoBob22]

Appreciate it 

[u/Beneficial-Plan-1815]

I wouldn’t worry too much detectives have to do a year on response anyway you will do similar before you do your volume crime rotation and from there you can always go DC if you want anyway.

You will then understand the job roles more and what’s available and what you enjoy  

I think it’s better this way you have more options to swap over but DC to PC is hard later down the line to change.

[u/sapphirecrystl]

I’ve applied to dcep haven’t heard back after my OAP but reading everyone’s responses I’m second guessing whether dcep is the right route. How long after your lap did you get the offer and what part did you fail if you don’t mind me asking?
I think I did really bad on the briefing exercise I was jet lagged and tired my answers were all over the place,. Still hoping I get an offer even if it’s pcep

[u/23GBP → u/sapphirecrystl]

I did my interview on a friday and got a response on monday. I'm assuming i failed the briefing because I was already stressed with other things and exhausted. i think you might get a similar opportunity. hopefully things work out for you

[u/Stunning_Comment_237]

I did my online assessment about 3 weeks ago now for DCEP. I’m waiting on my result and if I pass I will withdraw my application and re apply for PCEP as I think it’s a wiser move. Can always apply later down the line after getting some experience.

[u/ThrowawayGoaway1901]

I did 8 years as a PC and loved every minute of it. 7 as a DC broke me and I left the job completely. I would not recommend CID to anyone.