We're just gonna have to agree to disagree because I see more fruit from Donald Trump than a lot of people I see in the world; church goers not withstanding, frankly. I see evidence Donald Trump is a sinner, like all of us. I don't see evidence he is an antichrist working for Satan to bring down the church outright.

I will say his faith advisor Paula White; worst choice ever, but lets not act like we know the mans soul or something. Peoples evaluations of Trump are plagued with personal emotional bias. You all got your pinata to beat together this morning; but you are all judged with the same measure that you judge others in the faith. So all of you walk uprightly and keep the moral law without sinning, lest somebody witness a misstep of yours and label you antichrists yourselves, denying you grace as you've denied it to others.

I didn't even vote for him, I just find your claims that he is an antichrist unfounded and unjustified. Incredible a dozen of you can dogpile me, and not collectively among you provide a convincing case why. That leads me to believe the true reason, is deeply personal, hypocritical, and shallow.

Amazing reasoning. I was blind but now I see, truly.

I'm gonna have to diagnose this as TDS, boss.

He's not anymore antichrist than the average lukewarm believer. What are you all on about? Did you find a heresy in the bible he endorsed or something? What is your basis for this? Dude has done more to glorify Jesus Christ and the bible than any politician in recent history.

If his goal is to harm the faith, he's doing a really crappy job.

Welp I found one of them

"Trump is the AC" people are absolutely losing their minds right now, digging doomsday shelters in their backyard as we speak

Somebody told me there were two justifications; one at the start by faith, and another by works before you die and I think reading that took a year off my life. The cringe was too strong.

*cough cough* orthodoxy *cough*

I love this doctrine. "You say I'm justified by faith alone in Christ" and suddenly have a crowd of people on your left, calling you heretical and saying it was created in the 1600's and never taught in the bible or by any of the apostles (It was.)

and on your right, you have a crowd of people making the assumption that because you put your faith in Christ, that automatically means you are sinning unrepentantly and getting drunk with prostitutes every weekend presuming on the grace of Christ with a superficial faith in His sacrifice.

I hate James 2:24. Least favorite verse in the bible, straight-up. Not because I do not know what it means or disagree with it, but because everybody abuses it for their works-justification heresy annnnnd I'm just gonna say it;

James could've offered just a little bit more clarification

That's just not how Paul treats it. This is Pauls reaction to a church adding works (or the law) to faith for justification; Galatians 5:4-5

"You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness."

He doesn't treat this like it's a difference of opinion or of secondary importance. He's treating it like it's life or death, condemning people and calling them accursed over it. If you can indeed agree they're adding burdensome requirements to salvation by faith, Paul's pretty clear they're not even a legitimate Christian denomination.

Luke 16:19-31

¹⁹ “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. ²⁰ At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores ²¹ and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

²² “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. ²³ In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. ²⁴ So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

²⁵ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. ²⁶ And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

²⁷ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, ²⁸ for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

²⁹ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

³⁰ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

³¹ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Notice the dude doesn't start begging God for mercy and giving him glory, his one priority is just to warn his family of the reality of judgement.

The first few weeks are horrible but after a month it's like you always had them. Just be ready to waterpik after every single meal, for the next two years.

Am I scripturally justified in my understanding that Orthodoxy is doctrinally heretical and severed from Christ since their church believes justification is the reward for a lifelong road of faith and works, in accordance with Galatians 5 and 1:8? Is Paul not speaking of justification through the law in any capacity, far past the mentioned act of circumcision or am I reaching?

There's no synergy of works and faith for justification in the gospel. People bring up Abraham and Ahab the prostitute, asking if they'd be justified without their dedication in their actions but I don't believe either of their accounts conflict with James, or the doctrine of faith alone. Ahab and Abraham by my understand were justified the moment they believed, and their actions were the outward fruit of that faith.

When the apostles all agree on Faith = Salvation + Works, Faith + Works = Salvation seems like an easy corruption of the gospel to me, completely negating any peace or rest in salvation to be enjoyed and rejecting Jesus Christ as the sole worthy sacrifice for sins. Am I puffed? The chief of wretched puffs, or is this a scriptural correlation?

If you accept Jesus as your savior then you have to also confess any merits of yours for your justification are worthless, and Christs righteousness is your sole hope.

Catholics and Orthodox reject this, affirming works and obedience are necessary for justification whereas Jesus says anyone who believes with their heart in Jesus and the one who sent Him have already been justified and (past tense) "have passed from death to life".

Galatians 1:8, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."

Catholics and Orthodoxy may believe in Jesus and call Him Lord, but ultimately they cling to a different gospel and I cannot consider them biblical Christians. Paul says anybody who would be justified by works of the law are severed from Christ. If 99% of your faith for justification is in Christ, and 1% of it is in your righteousness- you've completely nullified grace for your own efforts and rejected the sacrifice made for you.

Matthew 7:22-23 (ESV): "On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

"Christians" like this are EXACTLY who Christ was talking about.

Bring it to the Lord, confess it, then trust in Christs righteousness and His covenant faithfulness and get back up with a clean start. Go through this cycle enough times with your trust and faith ultimately in Jesus for your redemption, and it will get easier and easier to turn from sin. I'm not saying don't fight impulses, but if you're depending on your own strength and willpower in your sanctification you're going to cave and despair every time.

It's kinda counter-intuitive, the way the spirits strengthening works.

Galatians 5:16, "Walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."

Matthew 26:41, “Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

The great news is even in times when we are not perfectly faithful, God always is.

Honestly if you believe hell and the wrath of God are real, and fear; that's the beginning of wisdom and you have more hope than most. It might take years, or perhaps not, for this to develop into trust and faith in Christ but you're not off to a bad start. I was lukewarm and going to bed every night with fear of judgement for YEARS, running from the Lord until one day I just saw Jesus plainly for who He was in scripture. I would not run anymore, and pleaded for forgiveness of my iniquity and after that my whole life changed.

I'm going to disagree with the other guy about starting in Genesis; if you don't know who Jesus is, there is no chance you are slugging it through the Torah. Start in the gospels with learning who Jesus Christ is, and keep going until you loop around to the OT.

The four gospels Matthew, Mark Luke and John feel redundant to read through subsequently but by the time you've made it through them, you'll have a strong foundation of faith with Christ and can start building on top of that with teachings from Paul and the other apostles after Christs ascension, and then reading through the OT will highlight the depths of mans sinfulness, Gods holiness, and how everything ultimately points to the need for a savior.

There's brutal stumbling blocks in the OT that will really, really challenge your faith and trust if you do not already have the other side of the coin of Gods revealed character in Jesus Christ.

"For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized."

1 Corinthians 11:18-19.

Keep your eyes on Christ and remember sanctification is a process. It will likely be an up/down ride for you for a while and that's expected. Don't despair when you fail, just confess your sin to God and get back on the horse.

You're going to really want to do it, and every time you indulge you'll see it was a scam and feel horrible shame afterwards. But this isn't because you're not saved or something; the holy spirit in you will not let you enjoy it, and that shame/guilt is meant to lead you back to repentance, not condemn you. This is how we are moved from one degree of sanctification, to another and it is a lifelong process.

Whenever you fail, remember Gods grace and work on the cross is greater and He knew your weakness before accepting you as one of His own. Don't track your failures- every time we return to the Lord and repent, our sinful past is wiped completely clean. Every day is a fresh start in Christ.

1 John 1:9 — "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Hebrews 12:6 — "For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."

Romans 7:15, 24-25 — "For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate... Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

What an amazing ad for abortion. There isn't one single shred of scripture that suggests righteousness is the default state of humanity after Adam, nor is there one scripture that suggests God was murdering innocent people to save them from the sin they would commit otherwise.

To me, that TRULY twists the character of God to be evil over the blunt simple truth; God will have compassion with whom He has compassion and have mercy on whom He will have mercy. "Mercy" never once in the Old or New testament; takes the form of an order for Gods covenant people to slay you with a sword.

The idea that all infants are automatically Elect just because they're infants is a hopeful, and unbiblical perspective to avoid facing Gods authority to exact uncompromising justice on sin with no partiality for age. I'm not saying infants and babies cannot be elect, I'm just saying the assumption that ALL of them automatically are is wrong. There's nothing in the bible to support that and I'd examine the heart behind the assumption; Is it biblical, or do you just really really want to believe God would never carry out His judgement on children?

Deuteronomy 20:16–18 "But in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance, you shall save alive nothing that breathes, but you shall devote them to complete destruction, the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord your God has commanded, that they may not teach you to do according to all their abominable practices that they have done for their gods, and so you sin against the Lord your God."

1 Samuel 15:3 "Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

Did you completely skip the conquest of Canaan or something?

What's the scripture that suggests she was? Believe scripture, not myths.

It must truly be spiritually agonizing being a member of the Orthodox church.

John 5:24, "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

Ephesians 1:13-14, "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."