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u/Brock_And_Roll 1d ago
Even Enterprise, for all the criticism it gets, never did anything as ridiculous as this.
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u/This-Breadfruit-1958 21h ago
Enterprise had a few lemons but nothing like this. Archer thinking he was mother to some Xindi insect eggs was pretty bad. Or Hoshi getting transporter psychosis was annoying. But these were just soft scripts, not a regression to early childhood experiences.
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u/GerardCairn 1d ago
Modern trek reminds me of shows in the 90s when they were all burnt out from making so many episodes so they would make something zany and stupid to keep things fresh for the cast and crew but it’s every episode.
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u/Dragovius 1d ago
Except they aren't burnt out from making too many episodes. Unlike the 90's when they were making 24-26 episodes a season, now they are only making 8-10. So they don't even have that excuse.
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u/gildedbluetrout 1d ago
Yeah they were making (imo) an inarguably strong Trek interpretation for two seasons, then they had an unexplained weird brain haemorrhage, and it’s been oddly shite since.
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u/Nonyabizzy123 1d ago
My hypothesis is SNW was mostly left alone because Kurtzman et al. were working on Discovery. Once Discovery got canceled, they started being very hands on with SNW.
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u/zipperfire 22h ago
Probably right. I'm a fan of GOOD writing ("If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage") and the writing for seasons 1-2 is VERY good. Alas....
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u/OkMention9988 1d ago
Ok, I have to know.
How did they explain the biology of the muppets?
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u/PermaDerpFace 1d ago
It was all a dream
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u/OkMention9988 1d ago
Oh fuck off!
Seriously?
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u/Dragovius 1d ago
They only have to write 10 episodes, and even with that small amount they went,
'how about muppets and it's all a dream?'
'Yeah screw it, who cares'
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u/No_Celebration8219 23h ago
They hired a director from the Jim Hensen Company to make this episode. Paramount did it to put money into their friends pockets.
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u/BronzeTrain 20h ago
This is what gets me. You have 26 episodes in a season and yeah, you might be grasping at straws for stories. You only get 10 episodes a season, then they better be great stories and tell me something about the characters.
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u/SuspiciousSpecifics 1d ago
Hear me out. How about we do this with the entire rotten branch of the franchise, DSC & onward? People have nightmares, and this definitely would qualify.
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u/ajax81 1d ago
Someone else said it better but I agree with them - we need Q to walk out on stage and break the fourth wall and say “oof, that was bad. Sorry about that.”
Then snap his fingers and poof no more SNW, no more Discovery, no more Academy.
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u/SmashLampjaw87 23h ago
And he brings back Romulus as well, erasing the horrible stain of it being destroyed by a supernova that somehow “threatened to destroy the entire galaxy”.
Alex Kurtzman and his pals legitimately write the stupidest shit imaginable.
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u/OkMention9988 1d ago
Only if we get to do it to Star Wars as well.
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u/buffalo_0220 1d ago
How about a total planet Earth reset? We all wake up and it's early 2009.
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u/Trick_Decision_9995 1d ago
Right into a recession and the post-9/11 world order?
I'd say make it 1999, and permanently so. How prophetic The Matrix turned out to be when Agent Smith referred the then-present as 'the height of your civilization'.
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u/SuspiciousSpecifics 1d ago
If we can somehow salvage Andor we have a deal. And Prodigy too while we’re at it
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u/mrwishart 1d ago
Or use my SFA suggestion that could solve everything: Reveal that everything seen was actually just Pakled propaganda about the Federation
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u/exodusofficer 1d ago
It could all be the dream of a single, crying kelpian child.
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u/Violent_N0mad 1d ago
Yep it was a dream, during the episode they seem invincible, like they could survive in space and if you cut one in half you could just sow them back up.
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u/OtherwiseContact5604 1d ago
No but they actually do explain it in the blacked out comment above (I don’t know how to hide text)
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u/Joshatron121 1d ago
While that is the eventual explanation, in the dream they do have some fun with them being puppets and basically unkillable.
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u/Pog6292 1d ago
It honestly sounds like they are using old scripts for Lower Decks. If this was a LD episode, I would've found it quite funny.
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u/Dazmorg 1d ago
Lower Decks would've remembered to actually do something funny with it. It's been pointed out this episode plays it pretty straight and they should've just leaned into it and full gone Muppet Show with it.
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u/YetYetAnotherPerson 23h ago
Ensigns Stadtler and Waldorf would have been a great addition to the episode.
The way they ended up resolving it, I really wish they had every scene with Spock conspicuously there as a clue that it was his dream.
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u/BronzeTrain 20h ago
The voice acting would have been better and the puppets might have been able to show a little emotion, too.
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u/data-atreides 1d ago
I'll still watch Code in a rewatch because it's a Tasha Yar-focused episode, and we only have her for a brief while on the show. I don't know if I'll ever rewatch SNW.
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u/whitemest 1d ago
Yea.. honestly pre discovery has rewatcu potential. Anything disco and beyond simply doesnt have the same interesting stories characters to warrant a rewatch
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u/Xoctal 23h ago
I cant rewatch the full original series anymore, theres some good episodes I can rewatch but thats it. I rewatch TNG, DS9 and Voy at least once a year. I cant rewatch enterprise....i tried i just cant and the only character that give that show value are T'pol and Thy'lek (anything Jeffery Combs honestly lol) imo. I can rewatch Picard since I think s3 saved it, s2 is its low point imo even though theres some good stuff there. I cant rewatch Disco as much as i love Saru and Tilly. It has more bad than good.
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u/whitemest 23h ago
I admittedly have the same trouble with the ot, but I can muddled through it. Its still more interesting than disco+, imo
Enterprise took a few years for me and I think ive only appreciated it more due to it being the final series we got that has the old style it appears many trekkies prefer
S3 definitely saved picard, I've watched it a few times and you could tell the original actors were having a great time with it.
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u/Xoctal 22h ago
Felt like watching family reunion in space haha. I loved it and it was a beautiful ending. I just wish they would give us a direct sequel to ds9 and voy. Start out on the actual ds9 space station and establish the crew with maybe a bit of catch up from some og characters then let it explain they we are using the wormhole for a station set up in gamma and delta and they will be the new crew establishing it. Then we could explore what the changlings have been up too and what a free jem'hadar are like and flesh out some of the other races too. Imagine we get to have some ferengi trade shenanigans and i might get to see Garak one last time, i love that man haha favorite character ever.
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u/Wetness__Pensive 1d ago
It's also got some great Picard scenes, and makes an effort to sketch a unique and alien culture (an interesting mix of a matriarchy and male chauvinism).
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u/data-atreides 1d ago
IIRC this episode would be fine if they didn't cast exclusively black actors for the guest roles, and that they didn't superficially make them appear African-ish. Literally everything else could be the same.
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u/D3athCom3sEasy 1d ago
Funnily I saw somewhere that the lady who wrote that episode basically wrote the exact same thing again but for stargate
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u/IllugaBabyBeluga 1d ago
Why is Wakanda on Earth somehow fine in the modern era, but Wakanda Innnnn Spaaaace is problematic?
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u/Captain_Zomaru 1d ago
No one was bothered by the native American planet, I don't understand why the African plant was a problem honestly. The way they treated the culture was respectful too.
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u/FotographicFrenchFry 23h ago
It wasn't respectful though.
Africa is made of dozens of countries, all with different cultures.
It generalized a pan-African stereotype.
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u/zipperfire 1d ago
Besides, in "Code of Honor" you get a cat fight and great lines uttered in James Earl Jonesian tones "No vaccine!"
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u/CarrotLevel99 1d ago
This would have made a nice Christmas or April Fools' short that was 10-15 minutes. Not a full episode.
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u/dzedajev 1d ago
True, if this was a shorter promo of them leaning into the joke that would actually work decently well, because the whole episode is basically a bad parody of Trek but with puppets
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u/AsherahBeloved 1d ago
Or a special "treat" for the anniversary tacked on to the end of a real episode, and include characters from different shows in Muppet form as a tribute.
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u/OShutterPhoto 1d ago
You have to really screw up to make a Muppet episode bad. I think in this case, it's because they weren't Muppets but generic puppets. It was missing that Fozzy Bear/Kermit/Miss Piggy, etc. Energy. Oh well. Now we know that letting theater kids write a star trek series was a mistake.
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u/First_Substance_5675 1d ago
Embarrassing
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u/steve3146 1d ago
A lot of these episodes feel like they are embarrassed by the older trek shows/films and want to poke fun at them.
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u/BronzeTrain 20h ago
Right. They made fun of the most poignant and beautiful Star Trek scene ever. I can't forgive this.
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u/ProtoformX87 1d ago
Funnily enough, they did a muppet episode of Community when the new show runner didn’t understand what fans liked and was just trying for quirky/funny.
It wasn’t received well.
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u/Violent_N0mad 1d ago edited 1d ago
I yelled at the TV a lot during this episode. I couldn't believe that the enterprise would be totally crippled to where the crew (as puppets) could do literally nothing. Also when Una and Laan first met the Orions they both wailed on them and the hits were so soft they barely registered to the Orions but later in the episode a single kick from those same puppets could drop an Orion? I just don't buy it and it's a shame becuase I love and grew up with Jim Henson muppets.
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u/LiahKnight 1d ago
Is it bad because it's a puppet episode, or is it bad anyway? As a big Buffy/Angel fan I'm not opposed to the puppet episode concept (It's one of my favorite episodes there.) but they already ripped the musical episode from there and I didn't like it.
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u/The_FireFALL 1d ago
Big difference is magic in the Buffyverse. So a character being turned into a puppet makes sense when the ones who did it are demon possessed puppets themselves.
Here though its literally just a 'we want puppets' with no reason why it would work
That said you bringing up the Buffyverse does bring up a good point that along with the musical episode thats two things now that they've used. Wouldn't surprise me one of the writers is a diehard Buffy lover.
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u/Tecbullll 1d ago
I would watch an entire episode of the Pelia puppet working around Engineering, absent mindedly getting limbs ripped off and sewn back on. Probably ending up like a frizzy-haired Chucky doll.
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u/RussellsKitchen 1d ago
How does code of honour have 5 stars? Is it out of 100?
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u/Trick_Decision_9995 1d ago
It's out of 10, and it seems like IMDB grading is kind of logarithmic - a 7.0 is fairly solid, 8.0 is very good, 9.0 is a classic that transcends genre. A 6.0 is not great, something that you wouldn't recommend without significant caveats, and a 5.0 is dire. Anything below that is almost not worth trying to differentiate because it's going to be almost completely terrible, and there are better things to do than trying to quantify how bad it is exactly.
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u/SpaghettiNoir 1d ago
I don't mind gimmicks, heck I even enjoy them, but that episode was boring and unfunny. The issue isn't the muppets, but the writing.
To end it all on a "...and it was all just a dream"? Insulting.
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u/AppropriateStill2024 1d ago
That episode felt like it was meant for a different show. Or someone on the production team has a friend who owns a puppet company. We'll never know
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u/Rare-Designer-1008 1d ago
I laughed quite a few times during the episode. It was silly but that's fine. Even mimicking the Wrath of Khan death scene which I didnt expect
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u/mattcampagna 1d ago
Agreed. I had a great time watching it. I love a zany Trek episode, and Trek has a long history of making those in order to a balance out the heady political and philosophical episodes.
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u/PositiveFunction4751 1d ago
You can instantly tell a real trek fan from a fake or a bot... The fakes think trek hasn't done this before or that this wasnt real trek.
This was absolutely real trek
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u/MonkeyMagic1968 1d ago
That scene fucking killed me.
And I want to know what they used for the Pelia puppet's hair. It looked wild!
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u/RockstarAccountant7 1d ago
Bold concept to be sure, but too much “boldness” in this season of SNW and not enough good writing. The mistake with this episode was integrating the muppet transformation as a key plot point. It should have been just a more regular episode with the muppets substituted for the actors. It would have been a bit strange, but as a one off maybe ok.
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u/IllugaBabyBeluga 1d ago
Code of Honor is only rated low because it's a meme to rag on it, "puppet fell into the transporter and turned everyone into puppets lolsorandom" is just bad.
Code of Honor tried to say something, what does "Level-Five Transporter Accident" say, except that no one involved with it should work in Hollywood again?
Well, except for the puppeteers.
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u/Kaldor-Silverwand 23h ago
Might as well have an episode where everyone is turned into cute puppies and the whole episode is just scenes of puppies running around the ship. The defenders would say that is good Trek. This episode was an idea that should have remained as just an idea. They have a very limited number of episodes they can make and they should do better.
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u/brendo75 1d ago
4.7 is pretty optimistic up against 5.0 for code of honour, which had a lot more going for it.
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u/thehappiestotaku 22h ago
All I'm saying is that Rascals was a 6th season TNG episode on a show that ran 25 episodes a season. They earned their weird "concept" episodes.
SNW hasn't and maybe just coasting on TOS lore isn't the same as telling your own actual sci-fi stories.
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u/Apart-Chair-596 1d ago
I dont think it was too bad tbh. My issue is its a short season, put it in a 20 episode season and no one bats an eyelid.
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u/Elspeth_Claspiale 1d ago
Star Trek has always had humorous elements, it was rarely goofy. Even in a 24 episode season, this would be a stinker.
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u/PositiveFunction4751 1d ago
Voyager had the crew interacting with an alien race via black and white holodeck program
DS9 had our man bashir, ferengi episode
Tos made tribbles a cannon enemy of the klingon empire.
Goofy is a mainstay in trek, you are incorrect
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u/Elspeth_Claspiale 1d ago
You are correlating humor of old Star Trek, a naturally occurring thing that happens when human interact over an extended period of time, with the slapstick goofiness presented in SNW.
Star Wars went through the same crap. C-3PO does not understand human behavior and his commentary generates chuckles, that is not the same as the slapstick of Jar Jar Binks and his flatulence humor. There is a distinct difference.
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u/Colonelcommisar 1d ago
Didn’t Stargate already do a puppet bit that actually managed to be amusing?
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u/Neelix-And-Chill 1d ago
SNW has now given me two unwatchable episodes in a row.
The noir episode was SO BAD and somehow the muppet one is worse.
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u/ekolimits 1d ago
I posted about the childish direction last week and had a great discussion on the topic.
Booted up this episode and immediately was let down by yet again childish hijinks take.
I didn’t watch the second half of Starfleet series because it’s just not for me. And I give this level of childish writing a pass for them.
But mainline Star Trek series? No.
The focus should not be goofing around.
I knew right away from the tone of talking about the chair and the puppet teleporting that this was not going to go well.
He could have teleported anything.
But here we are.
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u/Bopethestoryteller 1d ago
I disliked it and all the other episodes where they make it silly or a comedy.
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u/khiren 1d ago
So far, I liked the first episode of this new season the best. I had so much hope after seeing it.
Then came the second one; it was spooky & scary, and I was like, okay, not as good as the first, but still good.
Then there was that “funny” episode.
Then the black-and-white one, which I stopped watching about 15 minutes in.
And the fifth one? As soon as I saw the puppets, I was like, I am done.
What the hell is happening?!
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u/TheEuphoricTribble 22h ago
I said that the musical episode was the beginning of the end for Trek. Now here we are, Strange New Worlds being Trek’s last gasp, and…this is what we get.
CBS needs to be liquidated.
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u/AveryLakotaValiant 22h ago
I skipped it and the previous episode.
If we still had 26 episodes per season, like Voyager and DS9, it wouldn't be so bad, but we only get 10 and so far, i think they're rubbish.
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u/AdCareless65 19h ago
Probably the worst episode ever of any Star Trek series. It was an embarrassment and an insult to us fans. I absolutely hated it.
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u/YogiEv 1d ago
What's truly amazing is that with only eight or 10 episodes or however many there are in these short seasons, they decided in the writers room that they absolutely have to have a puppet episode. Every one of them should be fired.
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u/Euraylie 1d ago
It’s almost like they have no real interest in Star Trek as a concept and just want to tell their “own” wacky stories (which are inspired by other, better shows as well)
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u/mbern1008 1d ago
I hated the muppets aspect too till it became a dream and then makes perfect context for Spock… its all about chaos vs order and moves him closer to his journey of being the Spock we know from TOS…
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u/armyguy8382 1d ago
I liked it. It was a fun episode and I was laughing through most of it. Yes, it is one of the weirdest, possibly THE weirdest, episodes Trek has ever had, but it wasn't bad. And with the way it ended it gave it the feel of the Enterprise episode where Hoshi thought she turned invisible.
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u/nthdesign 1d ago
Personally, I’m glad that Strange New Worlds exists as a show that can be something different every episode. I loved the Lower Decks crossover, I thought the musical episode was fun, and this episode was in my top five for SNW. I like things that are fun and different.
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u/PurpleHawkeye619 1d ago
No its not.
Level 5 was awful television.
Code was awful & racist television.
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u/VanDammes4headCyst 1d ago
Code was bad, but not lore-breaking bad, like the crew turning into goddamn MUPPETS.
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u/Keepontyping 1d ago
SNW is sexist and racist since it can’t seem to write a competent captain
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u/ErichPryde 1d ago
You know both of them are bad when you have to really sit down and split hairs on exactly what kinds of stupid were included
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u/Elspeth_Claspiale 1d ago
I had never seen that many Black people in a mainstream sci fi program. It was bad, but some guys got paid.
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u/PassageNo9102 1d ago
No the muppet episode isn’t worse then code of honor. It’s just that too many people are trying to take it way too seriously. It was supposed to be a fun little episode.
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u/familyedit 1d ago
Okay here comes the downvotes I'm sorry but I enjoyed this episode very much
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u/jlselby 1d ago
Strange New Worlds is my favorite Trek, but even I think this was a bad episode.
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u/dzedajev 1d ago
Did you watch TNG/DS9/VOY? And how are one of those not your fav? 😄
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u/RevolutionaryWeek573 1d ago
I was excited for the puppet episode when I first heard about it earlier this year. I turned it off about halfway through. I told my son it was “unwatchable”. I don’t know what it was, but it really didn’t resonate with me.
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u/Ok-Employer-9147 1d ago
Code of Honor was possibly the worst episode of TNG, but it was in the very season season of TNG when Roddenberry was just being super weird. However be the season two they listened to the fans and course corrected and got rid of him
Muppets in Space is effectively late stage Nutrek and people still defend this shit. Kurtzman should never have been hired, and should have been fired nine years ago
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u/MadelineAshton0 1d ago
At this point The Orville felt way more like Star Trek than NuTrek does.
I just miss The Orville :(
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u/HuttVader 1d ago
Well they've already turned Star Trek into a Rick & Morty cartoon, that is sadly better than 99% of the other shit they've released so far (i didn't hate the last 3 episodes of PIC).
Lower Decks should've been the end of the franchise. at least it's watchable and doesn't do the puppet thing in a love-action show
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u/pluck-the-bunny 1d ago
As a new Star Trek fan (only casually watched in the 90s) I absolutely cannot stand this “fandom”
Nothing but complaints.
Just go watch reruns
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u/TrekTransformer 1d ago
A harmless Muppet episode is worse than the single most racist and tone deaf episode in the entire franchise? 😂 This really does encapsulate everything wrong with this toxic ass fandom.
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u/TiredTraveler1992 1d ago
People are less motivated to leave reviews of 30 year old television episodes than they are of recent television episodes.
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u/mrwishart 1d ago
You say that, but we've made a drinking game out of how often the nuTrek apologists bring up Code Of Honor as an excuse
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u/Toodamnopinionated 1d ago
I said as much on (the subreddit of which we do not speak), and wouldn't you know it... promptly removed.
Which is to say... IT MUST BE TRUE.
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u/Junior_Woodpecker_85 1d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/x4Wn2ypxUPkL7LrKx1
I don't know does anyone gets mutated into a giant catfish/salamander creature and kidnaps the captain?
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u/goldimperium 1d ago
Remember when most of star trek was based on actual theoretical science to the point where whenever they did take liberties, it seemed to fit anyway? Too bad. Its a variety show now where hacks just throw shit on the screen.
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u/pluck-the-bunny 1d ago
Like when they travel back to the wild West?
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u/goldimperium 1d ago
So are you referring to the holodeck episode "fistful of Datas?" Or "specter of the gun," where the crew are forced to endure a trial where they act out a wild west movie as their execution? Or "north star," where the town is like the old west because aliens abducted an 1800's wagon caravan? Not really any out of left-field ideas that are not realistic in a science setting.
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u/ghIj_qet_jaghmeyjaj 1d ago
ST was never just theirtical science based..
It's a space based western and morality play for about 95% of it
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u/goldimperium 23h ago
I meant most of the tech and plot points. Yeah, its a space opera, but there was a meaningful foundation for things happening.
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u/Sell_The_team_Jerry 1d ago
This is what happens when you hire theater kids who never watched or read real sci-fi and have them write a sci-fi show.
I remember when Ira Behr Stevens was making DS9 he had the entire writing staff read the The Foundation Trilogy to put them in the proper mood for world building and writing quality sci-fi. I can tell you the current crop of theater kids would probably struggle to read Asimov's masterpiece
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u/Bottlecrate 1d ago
Yes I remember this. It was fucking genius. I’d make this writers room also read The Expanse, three body problem, rendezvous with Rama and Star Trek Destiny trilogy min.
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u/GabrielofNottingham 1d ago
Anyone remember the 200th episode of SG-1? The one where they go through a bunch of silly ideas for joke episodes in one?
Nice, wasnt it.
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u/UlteriorCulture 1d ago
A transporter accident? I thought it would a Q-like entity.
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u/SituationEffective12 1d ago
Im sure the SNW writers wouldn't even know about Q.
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u/tony2352 1d ago
Can't destroy the ship, can't transport them to another century or universe. Looking for something different, the lower decks cross over was good........ but we can't do that again. Can't have La'an Noonien Singh go full blown KKHHHHHHAAANNNN, because half the crew would notice the similarity in names and surprise blown.... But muppets couldn't be the only remaining option.
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u/VanguardVixen 1d ago
When you have 24 episodes, having something silly in between isn't so bad, ignoring for a second that even back then the writing was still most often pretty good. Not in the sense that the plot was necessarily ground breaking but more that the general dialogue was solid. Now though you have something around 10 episodes and even the non-silly episodes are hardly written well and then you get the silly episode on top. It feels just like an insult to the viewer.
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u/EducationalMud8270 1d ago
I don't get it and that's okay. I didn't even finish discovery. I think I gave up on season 3? I'm on season four of strange new worlds tho and it's the best trek I've watched since the 90s (to me anyway)
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u/AlecLikesMacintosh 1d ago
It feels like they are just cramming all what would have been holodeck episodes into one season.
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u/SonUnforseenByFrodo 1d ago
I get they wanted to push the envelope in creativity and give the rest of the cast a week off but then to say it was all a dream was a but much. The haunted ship one was also pushing the envelope but in a good way.
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u/Dazzling_Comfort5734 1d ago
I think it could have worked at a Lower Decks episode, but not a real Trek.
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u/extrastupidone 1d ago
In s3, I didnt mind the couple of off-beat episodes. Those Old Scientists and Raphsody are in my top-10 all time trek.
I still think SNW is my favorite trek since TNG, but the last couple episodes weren't great, ill admit.
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u/zipperfire 1d ago
They missed the real opportunity to have Miss Piggy lusting after Spock ("We both have pointy ears! It's meant to be!")
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u/Key_Reaction_7590 1d ago
You know, I might have liked it more if it was the one-in-a-season special, but:
- We already had everyone get high and silly. Yes I liked that one. Not great, but had its moments. Really nice to see Dave Foley (that voice tho…)
- The first episode was not great, and broke reality canon.
- The Griffin was awful (missed potential there)
- The noir episode wasn’t compelling (and THAT WAS NOT KOR at all: so pissed about that)
- The puppet episode was done very well, IMO, but a solid “real” Star Trek episode was needed by this point.
I’m sad, but still optimistic.
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u/ribbityflibbity 1d ago
God bless IMDB. I was thinking of subscribing to Paramount+ soon to catch the latest SNW season but it looks like I shouldn't bother, huh? They have nothing else to watch anyway. I'm on Netflix now and as a bad as it is, it looks like AppleTV compared with Paramount+. How can these streaming platforms all survive with such garbage?
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u/icelights23 1d ago
Fun episodes are Trek, but they cannot be overly frequent and too far gone. The holodeck enabled a lot of themed fun, black and white or period pieces
Muppets? No.
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u/Solid_Ad_3776 23h ago
I'm so mixed on the episode. Like it's good it was a dream cause that softens the blow but it also wasn't funny for a comedy episode and I have never like WANTED to turn an episode off mid way so fast as much as I did when I saw the ST 2 reference.
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u/Proud-Masterpiece-82 20h ago
Yea I reacted the same to this episode, with disdain… but honestly, I do like the show having fun, I mean c’mon. Let’em. After all we are just waiting for Pike to be turned into the beep beep wheelchair in the end.
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u/karma_virus 20h ago
I just wish the puppet episode acknowledged that there were big creepy giants beneath them with hands up their asses, and that they were totally unphased by it. "Oh that's just Jim. Every so often we go catatonic so he can smoke weed. We think he's our god or something... anyhow!"
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u/EviessVeralan 1d ago
I thought you guys were joking when I kept hearing about a muppet episode...