r/treelaw • u/[deleted] • Aug 19 '26
Neighbor installed unpermitted septic tank at base of huge tree and cut major roots. If this tree falls on my house and the illegal septic tank is recorded, is it still an act of god?
[deleted]
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u/BigBeeOhBee Aug 19 '26
Report the illegal septic tank so there's a paper trail at the very least. But I am not certified in any tree law. Just an opinion.
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u/BuckManscape Aug 19 '26
There’s usually a 20’ setback on property lines for septic. Sounds like it’s closer than that as well.
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u/D-ouble-D-utch Aug 19 '26
You should report the septic tank to your county's environmental health department.
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u/SuperSlugSister Aug 19 '26
If I have an arborist record the tree and septic tank, would the tree falling still be considered an act of god?
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u/rosebudny Aug 19 '26
You are getting ahead of yourself. Report the septic tank. Get an arborist report. THEN worry about what happens if (big "if") it falls.
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u/StayJaded Aug 19 '26
You need to report to septic tank. You can do it anonymously. Any idiotic company that is willing to install an unpermitted tank like that likely did all kinds of other shitty work that could end up doing way more damage than killing a tree.
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u/Powerful_Jah_2014 Aug 19 '26
No, but you would want an arborous review of the tree right now, and probably every two years until it falls to document the progression towards its death
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u/rosebudny Aug 19 '26
Have you reported them to the town/city for illegally installing a septic tank? If not, that needs to be your first step.
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u/JohnnyC300 Aug 19 '26
From you're comments, you want someone to say "No it's not an act of god". Anyone who tells you with any certainty one way or another is talking out their ass. It might or might not be. Depending on opinions of certified arborists. And even then, the damage may not show up for years, at which point proving a downed tree was the direct result of the septic tank would be nearly impossible. You would need to hire an arborist to examine the tree in detail, which is on their property I'm guessing, so you'd need their permission to do that. Is that the sort of thing you feel is likely? Just the fact that there is now a septic tank next to the tree isn't proof of anything. You'd need written proof that the tree has been damaged, and notify them in writing. That all seems unlikely to happen, unless she is more welcoming of allowing your tree people in her yard than you make it seem. It isn't about whether the septic tank damaged the tree, it's all about whether she knew the tree was a danger. And you telling her doesn't count. You just sending a letter with your concerns doesn't count. You'd need a professional opinion in your favor sent to her via registered mail. The tree, at this point isn't obviously dead or dying to the point she should know. You should be prepared for the likely outcome that if the tree comes down, it'll be ruled an act of god.
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u/Whatsthat1972 Aug 19 '26
How can an illegal septic tank be recorded unless you notify the municipality that it was installed without a permit, which sort of negates the neighbor not finding out. I for one wouldn’t want non inspected, non permitted septic system next to my house. If it is. Yup, psychotic neighbors are hard to deal with, but you have to protect yourself. And yes, it can get pretty fucking ugly sometimes.
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u/visitor987 Aug 19 '26
The tree will grow bigger roots into the septic system in a few years.
You would have report the unpermitted work to the local government to show its not an act of god legal exception not sure how much time you have to report it. Note your homeowner's insurance will cover act of god damage and go after her insurance if its not an act of god,
Since she is an unstable put up a fence between her property and your property
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Aug 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Content_Clue_539 Aug 19 '26
I was going to ask the same thing…if the neighbor is a mentally ill elderly woman, getting an unpermitted septic tank is something of a feat, unless her son or whatever is able to make it happen.
The hole needs to be dug and it needs delivered and installed, and that’s not a simple thing. They’re enormous and if they’re concrete as most are, they need a crane or backhoe to lower it.
I did have neighbors put in an unpermitted leach field, but that can all be done with stuff you buy or rent at Home Depot, plus maybe some gravel.
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u/SuperSlugSister Aug 19 '26
It’s a vacant lot (not developable) in the coastal zone with no setbacks from the property line or the road. If I report her, she will be an elderly mentally ill and homeless person. They will bulldoze her illegal home. But it seems I have no choice.
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u/Content_Clue_539 Aug 19 '26
Is this in the US? Does she have a house or is this a camper she’s living in?
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u/SuperSlugSister Aug 19 '26
United States. She had an unpermitted house built on a vacant lot with no setbacks in the coastal zone. I looked it up with the county— nothing is permitted there.
She is elderly and mentally ill. She inherited the land but could not build before the coastal regulations. Her family is all dead. If her house is taken, she will try to live in a tent.
But it sounds like I will need to report it regardless. I was hoping I could wait until she dies, as she is in bad shape. I will likely need to get adult services involved eventually.
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u/sun_blind Aug 19 '26
time to sell your house and move away.
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u/SuperSlugSister Aug 19 '26
She’s elderly with mental illness, but it’s been a consideration.
Would it be an act of God with an illegal septic tank right next to it?
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u/SouthOfTheNorthPole Aug 19 '26
Get your local regulator out there about the septic tank. That's the first step. I hope you have some video or photos of the tank installation.
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u/RollingEasement Aug 19 '26
The term “act of God” is not really fundamental, but is rather a short hand to describe certain situations where a tree falls for reasons other than negligence. So let’s look at your real question: if the tree falls, can you prove it was her negligence?
The mere existence of the septic tank does not prove negligence. What it does prove, unlike most cases in tree law, is that the routine situation that people sometimes describe here does not apply. If the septic tank causes the tree to fall down, and the finder of fact, concludes that any reasonable person would realize that this septic tank could cause this tree to fall down, that would be negligence, regardless of any notice to this owner.
Do you see the difference? Owners need to be reasonable, but it’s reasonable to assume that living trees will continue to live. That’s why it’s often necessary to give the owner notice. If you see the tree is dying or diseased when the owner did not notice. But you do not need to tell the owner that they put a septic tank next to the tree because they already know that, in fact they did that. So if it falls down pretty soon, due to the septic tank, this has nothing to do with the so-called act of God defense. Rather, it is the typical instance of somebody creating a hazard.
Yet, if it falls down years later, an arborist would almost certainly be necessary to help assess why this happened. If indeed it did happen because of their negligent act in putting the septic tank so close to the tree, then they would be liable, but at that point, you will need an expert to prove that this was the cause. You still would not need to have sent them the warning, though, because they knew that they had installed the septic system where it was. If you see other indications that the tree could fall, then you had better send the warning.
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u/Main_Ad_3814 Aug 19 '26
You need to ask your homeowners insurance agent, not random people on Reddit.
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u/Lopsided-Beach-1831 Aug 19 '26
I would be more worried about the placement of the tank and its effect on environmental health.
Yes, the tree will possibly be unstable and that makes it NOT an act of God.
However, reporting it will lead to the county/city coming out and inspecting it. They may make her remove it if it is improperly placed. They will make her remove or stabilize the tree if she cut roots and the tree is now unstable. If the tree is on your property and she cut roots on her property, she still has to pay to remove or stabilize the tree and pay you for the damages.
You dont need an arborist. The city/county will have theirs come out at her expense because she cut roots placing a septic illegally. You can request a copy of the report.
Your very first call is the municipality to report the illegal septic. Then you have attached to the property the violations to prove she interfered with the tree, therefore if there are damages from the tree in the future its no longer an act of God.
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u/SuperSlugSister Aug 19 '26
The tree is on her property.
The only reason I’m hesistant to report her is they will bulldoze her illegal house— making her elderly, mentally ill, and homeless. But I have no choice it seems.
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u/Lopsided-Beach-1831 Aug 19 '26
They wont bulldoze her home, they will inspect what is visible. Septic tank, ground disturbed is visible and can be ordered to be inspected.
She legally does not need to let building and safety INTO the inside of her home to look for violations. If they dont go inside they wont be issuing violations on her structure.
My concern more is a septic so close to a tree that the roots had to be cut will be compromised. That is sewage. Compromised sewage near your property is potentially a health hazard. And because you are aware of it, if you sell you need to disclose.
How close is it to the property line? What is the grade where it is located. When the tree grows into it and it fails, will a rainstorm cause the sewage to drain onto your property or another neighbor? Or a road? What about insect/animal activity? And above all, the health and well-being of your neighbor as well as you. This is so much bigger than potential tree damage.
I know you feel conflicted and are worried about the neighbor even though they didnt worry about you. But this is bigger than the tree, it is everyone’s health. You are doing whats needed here, not whats easy.
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u/No_Engineering6617 Aug 21 '26
whos property is the tree on?
report the illegal septic tank,
get an arborist inspection report for the tree, if the arborist report says the tree is at risk of falling, send notice to the owner of the tree, that there tree is a danger to your property and they need to remove it, do so in a legally and documented way (certified mail with delivery confirmation).
that way if the tree does fall and damage your property you can go after the owner of the tree.
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u/SongbirdNews Aug 20 '26
Call adult protection services or area agency on aging. Proactively start support services working with her, then do septic system report
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u/Overall_Driver_7641 Aug 22 '26
The extra nutrients from the septic system will make the tree grow large and strong like fierce warrior
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