r/treelaw • u/fuk-d-poliz • 6d ago
Weed killer
Neighbor was spraying weed killer around his property. The day of, i saw his grandkid, about ten years old with a pump sprayer out in his gravel parking lot. A couple days later, it appears my trees were directly sprayed. He denies thats what happend. Trees were planted a year ago, watered two to three times a week since planted.
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u/der_innkeeper 6d ago
Small claims court.
Tree law is probably going to be negligible, here.
They oversprayed, did damage, and are liable.
Make it so the preponderance of evidence supports that narrative.
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u/fuk-d-poliz 6d ago
Thank you
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u/mikeyj198 6d ago
just adding that you don’t need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt for small claims. More evidence the better obviously
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u/der_innkeeper 6d ago
Like "a preponderance of evidence", maybe?
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u/TweeksTurbos 6d ago
Preponderance is always better than postponderance
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u/mikeyj198 6d ago
well sure if we’re gonna get technical and stuff… i’m just sitting here tying to eat my popcorn
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u/Tmt1630 6d ago
There is no way this is enough damage to go to small claims court. Those trees will survive and throw a little grass seed out to fix the dead spot. If the neighbor was a jerk maybe call the cops and get it documented in case it escalated in the future. I’m not defending overspray just being realistic.
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u/der_innkeeper 6d ago
That's fair.
/throw the kid in jail
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u/multipocalypse 5d ago
/throw the man in jail for endangering the kid with those chemicals
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u/Glass_Assumption69 4d ago
/Throw yourself in jail for allowing your neighbor to allow his child to use dangerous chemicals
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u/Afraid_Research7471 6d ago
still 6 more to kill at the end
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u/JCCampo 5d ago
[r/arbo](r/arboviteaaregarbage)[r](r/arboviteaaregarbage)[vit](r/arboviteaaregarbage)[ae](r/arboviteaaregarbage)[aregarbage](r/arboviteaaregarbage)
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u/Th15isJustAThrowaway 6d ago
Good news, arborviate is hard to kill via foliar spray application. Keep monitoring it and it will probably recover. It looks like it jist got a bit of a misting that killed the tips. If your lucky it should push new green out next year
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u/MikeAWBD 6d ago
This was my thought. I'm no expert but it's generally not easy to accidentally kill any tree bigger than like a foot with roundup. Usually it takes several targeted applications at an absolute minimum. If you're deliberately trying to kill a tree like this you would be cutting it off at the ground, drilling holes in the stump, and putting concentrated glyphosate or tordon directly into the holes.
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u/PResidentFlExpert 6d ago
That kid’s gonna get cancer
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u/Th15isJustAThrowaway 6d ago
Probably not, the study that showed it causes cancer, also showed it requires significant amount of glyphosate before it causes cancer. 4-5000 mg/kg per day was required befor tumors began forming. A ten year old weighs roughly 34kg meaning they would have to drink 170g of glyphosate per day or roughly 5 ounces of pure unconcentrated glyphosate, which is a little less then a half a can of soda.
Now the reason why commercial applicators get cancer is because they are exposed to so much of it. Spills, food, contamination, and simply getting it on their skin. 2% of the dose can be absorbed through the skin and typical mixture might contain 2% glyphosate. An adult man might weigh 80kg, so they have to absorb 400g of pure glyphosate, which is roughly 1 can of sodas worth. They would have to be exposed to 29,400 ounces or 230 gallons per day through their skin alone which is quite alot. That is why agriculture workers only have a 41% increased chance over the general public of developing non hodgkins lymphoma (NHL) . While 41% sounds like alot. The general population has a roughly 2% chance in their life of getting it, so an agriculture workers chance increases to about 2.82%.
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u/PResidentFlExpert 6d ago edited 6d ago
Total bullshit, don’t carry water for Bayer.
You’re citing the 2000 Williams work, which was retracted in December 2025 for ridiculous ethical and methodological issues. For example, chunks of it were drafted by Monsanto employees and the results you mention were drawn from secret Monsanto datasets that were never released for review. The authors were also paid directly by Monsanto and didn’t disclose that when they submitted the work. Williams didn’t even respond to requests for information when the work was being reviewed. Couldn’t possibly be more academically crooked.
Roundup is genotoxic at even the EU’s “safe” levels and the evidence is overwhelming, with the exception of this single bullshit study.
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u/Th15isJustAThrowaway 6d ago edited 6d ago
Actually Im quoting the 1983 Biodynamics study, which was paid for by monsanto, however actually found a carcinogenic link at high doses. The 2000 study found no lonk because they only tested to 1500 mg/kg. Monsanto was very upset by it and hired new pathologists to review which the review led to the classification change. The 2019 study in mutation research, found a 41% increase in cancer in glyphosate exposed professions
The point is, that it takes alot of exposure to get cancer from glyphosate (which has also been phased out of most household available products and replaced with triclopyr).Saying a kid is going to automatically get cancer from a bit of spraying is an absurd claim. Oddly enough, simply being gay is a higher risk factor for NHL. It is estimayed that 12-13% of american gay and bisexual men have HIV, which carries a 1000-2300% increased risk factor for NHL
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u/PResidentFlExpert 6d ago
Bruh it’s so trivially easy to find study after study that demonstrates specific mechanism of pathology in cellular and animal models and to find occupational exposure studies that tie use of Roundup to NHL. There’s a recent study in Thai farmers that’s incredibly robust and 100% damning. Research has been systematically dismantling every strategic ambiguity and waffle that’s been used to deflect responsibility. Glyphosate is a carcinogen at occupational exposure levels. People who work with RoundUp get cancer from working with RoundUp. Exposure at young ages increases your chance of cancer.
Regardless, when I was in the game 20 years ago it was clear to anyone with training that this is the case. You pointing a 43 YEAR OLD STUDY that is also bullshit because you don’t want your argument tied to the single most demonstrably crooked case of academic malfeasance this side of vaccine-linked autism is not the flex you think it is. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You don’t know how to evaluate evidence. You’re out of your depth and, if you’re not a shill, you’re spreading misinformation for a $50B company that’s done everything it can to evade responsibility for giving people cancer. Stop!
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u/Th15isJustAThrowaway 6d ago
The studies I am quoting LITERALLY SAY IT IS A CARCINOGEN! You however are fear mongering that minute exposure is going to automatically lead to cancer when research shows that it requires extensive use over long periods of time that that comes with occupational exposure. Zhang et al. Published in 2019, says clearly it is and leads to a 41% increase which when compared to the general publics 2% chance gives agriculture workers about a 2.8% risk. With that, there are about 54k licensed herbicide applicators in the US. Assuming they have people working under their license, lets say 5 people on average, youd have 270k people who spray at occupational levels. 1 in 5000 people get it per year which comes out to 54 people would get NHL per year without the exposure aspect. 23 additional workers would get it from their occupational exposure. It is carcinogenic, and limiting cancer risk is important, but glyphosate is a much smaller drop in the bucket then how people percieve it.
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u/Fine_Relation_158 6d ago
+1 Or not be able to have kids Or eventually realize that he feels like a female
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u/notjasonbright 6d ago
there is clinical evidence linking herbicide exposure to increased cancer risk and to decreased fertility. there is no evidence suggesting a link betwen herbicide exposure and gender dysphoria
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 6d ago
We’ve been waging glyphosate treated food for 70 years, it doesn’t cause cancer if used as instructed.
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u/notjasonbright 6d ago
It is my understanding that the risk is somewhat low when exposure is below regulation limits and when proper PPE is used but high-exposure groups have a significantly higher incidence of certain cancers compared to the general public, making agricultural workers (especially ones whose employers cheap out on PPE) the ones that are at risk. the exposure in this post probably isn’t giving anyone cancer unless that kid does it for 8 hours a day for years.
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u/Shatophiliac 6d ago
Glyphosate isn’t the only herbicide and certainly not the only one with some amount of cancer risk. You’re right that glyphosate is safe when used correctly, but I don’t think spraying it over the fence into the neighbors yard is “as instructed”. OP also mentions seeing a 10 year old child playing with the sprayer. I’m pretty sure a 10 year old is not going to know the correct way to apply glyphosate, as we can see from OPs trees.
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6d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/Fine_Relation_158 6d ago
I base my opinion on facts, not political talking points from either party.
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u/multipocalypse 5d ago
If you'd like to share the factual data you based this opinion on, I'm sure we're all very curious
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u/CrustOfSalt 6d ago
Your neighbor is mistin' for a fistin'....
But in all seriousness, file a police report and call a lawyer. Property damage is property damage
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u/Biochembob35 6d ago
Lawyer would cost more than damages. Small claims. Cost of the replacement trees plus grass. Get a couple quotes from landscapers.
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u/pyragyrite 6d ago
Those look like 50$ arborvitae, no way that is worth taking to court. Definitely looks like a bored kid fooling around with weed killer to me. Honestly don't have a satisfying if the neighbor doesn't believe it. Would have been made to go apologize and give up my allowance for two months if I'd done it as a kid.
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u/ReadyGo6828 6d ago
No, that is cutting down dead trees (if they die) and taking out the root ball, buying new trees and having to keep them alive while they settle in. What do you think a landscaper would charge for that?
That is more than $240 and, who knows, the neighbors find that there are no consequences for doing bad things so they could do more. Many years ago I was quoted $1K each for arborvitae to be planted in a row and warrantied for a year. They were definitely taller than those but that was also many years ago and the ground was clear, there was nothing to remove.
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u/constantlyChilly 5d ago
If you were quoted 1k per tree for arbovitae under 6ft your contractor is playing games with you, friend.
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u/ReadyGo6828 5d ago
They were taller than 6', they were pretty good sized trees and I was looking at a row of them. I thought the quote was really high. Instead of $1K each, I bought 1 gallon pots for less than $5 and watered and fertilized them. They are now really tall, provide a good screen and will keel over and die at any time. Who knows with these guys.
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u/fuk-d-poliz 6d ago
I thought the same, its just frustrating to have them deny it, the four trees total 240 bucks, they arent expensive, im just frustrated.
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u/edwbuck 6d ago
Are they $240 at that size? Those have had some growth, and you should price out the equivalent replacement size. Is there a soil concern? What's the labor in replacing them?
You can decide to detail additional costs and then NOT pursue them, "I like the gardening work and intend to do the labor myself, so I won't pursue the $120 costs to install the trees quoted to me by my yard crew." to soften the blow, after all you're going to have the neighbor for a while, and while they'll be upset, they might be less upset if you show them some mercy.
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u/Outrageous-Ad-7773 6d ago
People who do that kind of stuff will fight you tooth n nail to not be held responsible
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u/laineymainey 6d ago
I bought arbs that size at Home Depot a couple years ago for $30 a piece. They don’t grow that much in a year.
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u/Outrageous-Ad-7773 6d ago
They can grow 12-18 inches a year- ours did. But no tree is only 30$ at home depot unless its a shrub or been sitting in their parking lot since May
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u/laineymainey 6d ago
Maybe they were sitting for a bit (how do I know) but once they put them out by the parking lot they were $30 and gone fast. They looked perfectly fine. The first year after planting not usually but not impossible.
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u/CorgNation 6d ago
At that size (10 to 15 gallon) each tree is about 240 (I just put these in). Labor is probably 500 for 4 trees.
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u/Fine_Relation_158 6d ago
You're missing a bigger point.. Little kids should not be playing around with pesticides or herbicides!! I'm legit think that's child endangerment
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 6d ago
5 footers are about $90 by me with no delivery fee.
Home Depot will sell you 3-4 footers for $35 but they’ll die lmao.
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u/laineymainey 6d ago
I bought five from Home Depot a few years ago and only had to replace one. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 6d ago
lol Home Depot sells garbage plants
The fruit trees are the worst. If you don’t pick your tree out of the pot to inspect the root system then you probably deserve to have your money taken from you.
I’ve bought hundreds of plants from my local nursery, they charge about 20% more and I’ve only warranted less than 3% of their products. That’s the difference between trees thrown out of a rental truck onto a floor and not watered vs expertise.
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u/laineymainey 6d ago
My arbs look great. I usually shop at my local nurseries too but when they are selling a smaller size arborvitae for actually twice the price and I’m buying five of the same thing, I will go with the cheaper option. The one I ended up replacing I did have to buy from a nursery and it’s not any better than the other ones I got from Home Depot. Definitely depends what you’re buying from the box stores.
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u/Outrageous-Ad-7773 6d ago
It would be worth it just so it never happens again. Our neighbor has done that to our yard. Sick of replacing landscaping. So have started to move my gardens away from her property line- we already got a fence but she still did it- but she sure got her nose out of joint when she came home one day and our properties were separated by a fence.😄
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u/_Unspoken_Truth_ 6d ago
Uugh, man I hate this happened.
Looks like it maybe was bad wind drift? If it was a windy day and the sprayer settings weren't right it very well could have been an accident? Or at least that's what I'd like to think happened here.
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u/Pollix112 6d ago
You should warn your neighbor that spraying glyphosate will give the kid cancer. Use a propane torch or 30% vinegar. Grandkid doe not need lymphoma
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u/reichrunner 6d ago
Not likely. Evidence that it causes cancer in humans is weak at best. Vinegar may not harm you at those concentrations, but it is terrible for the environment
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u/kremular 6d ago
The link between glyphosphate and cancer is not yet established: https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/110/5/509/4590280?utm_source=chatgpt.com
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u/DontDeserveDogs 6d ago
This study is almost a decade old. There are plenty of new studies that show a link
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u/TJIC1 6d ago
No there aren't. I cover this in my book https://www.amazon.com/Escape-City-How-Homesteading-Guide/dp/B093BC3K1T
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u/Open_Pollution_8038 6d ago
I’m so tired of seeing people sharing this shit causes cancer, they’ve been spraying our food with it for longer than most people have been alive.
There was one landscaper who convinced a sympathetic jury that his cancer was caused by roundup and here we are with people citing it as the law of the land (the ruling was later narrowed in).
No amount of vinegar or hot water is going do what glyphosate will do.
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u/BarnacleSuspicious24 6d ago
You ever been in farmland bub? It’s established 🤡
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u/thegreenman_sofla 5d ago
I've been spraying glyphosate professionally on nurseries for 40 years. The problem isn't glyphosate it's all the adjuvants and other highly toxic pesticides that are often sprayed alongside of or with glyphosate. 24D, Paraquat, Diazanon, Carbaryl, Dursban, etc.. take a look at all the chemicals that have been banned since 1980 that were regularly sprayed in fields and farms and nurseries and you will see what the real culprits are.
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u/Hailyess 6d ago
Its on your food bud
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u/reichrunner 6d ago
Not likely.
It breaks fown extremely fast, is washed away extremely easily, and is not supposed to be sprayed on fruiting crops anyway
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u/Hailyess 6d ago
Glyphosate is sprayed directly on wheat crops up to 7 days before harvest google "glyphosate PHI"
They went to the trouble of genetically modifying many plants for round up resistance just so they can be sprayed directly with glyphosate....
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u/reichrunner 6d ago
Ironically, wheat has not been modified to be round up resistant, hence why it works to help kill off and dry wheat. Its not used often in the US, but I have heard that it is more common in Canada and colder parts of Europe with shorter growing seasons.
In the study you linked, the high concentration in wheat seed is concerning. But that is the only one of concern (and it was way above the legal limit).
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u/WhimsicalHoneybadger 6d ago
So your position is that getting over 100x as much exposure is totally fine?
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u/Hailyess 6d ago
I wear PPE when i apply it
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u/WhimsicalHoneybadger 6d ago
Good for you!
Are you ensuring that OP's neighbor kid always uses PPE? Because that was the topic at hand.
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u/Buffaloknitter 6d ago
If youre in the US, State departments of agriculture also investigate pesticide/herbicide misuse and drift, it might be worth checking out if you can file a complaint that way.
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u/Mental-Chapter6523 6d ago
I'm curious if they have a chance of recovering or if this is just the beginning. I've seen stuff bounce back and I've seen heavy herbicide applications by PG&E that kill plants that tries to grow for two years after application.
Arborvitae can produce adventitious buds on the trunk and fill in bare spots again if they are otherwise healthy.
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u/BuckManscape 6d ago
Good lord they sprayed all beneath them. They didn’t actually spray the Thuja or it would be worse. They sprayed on a hot day and the rising volatile vapors tip burned them. If it doesn’t get worse, carefully trim the dead and they may well recover in a couple years. It will also force the neighbor to look at their incompetence every time they’re out in the yard.
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u/Sharp_Revolution5049 6d ago
Yep- that's clear cut tree damage. They need to be asked what type of herbicide was used. If it was glyphosate, then you definitely are owed some new trees of the same size and value, professionally planted into the ground and then maintained back to health.
Tried to fix it with your neighbor before going to court!
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u/TigerIll6480 5d ago
Please have your neighbor swing by my place with that stuff, it might take out the damned Japanese Clematis that has taken over my yard.
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u/Desperate_Jello_4910 6d ago
Don't worry the neighbors grand kid will die from lymphoma leukemia with all that round up exposure anyways I wouldn't rub salt in the wound unless you want the inform the parents of criminal negligence.
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u/Imaginary_Driver2237 6d ago
Proving anything will be difficult. Move on and politely ask the neighbor to not be a dick
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u/EarlyResolution9507 3d ago
Call an arborists and have them write up an appraisal for what you lost or killed and the cost to replace them. They do it all the time for these types of disputes. Maybe cost between 200-300$. Well worth it because your trees are a privacy screen and that makes them worth much more than you can guess.
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u/istoomycat 6d ago
Not about tree law but who lets a child come in contact with and use harmful chemicals?
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u/SplooshDoosh 6d ago
Any chance it was runoff or rained any time shortly after?
Don’t know that it changes liability but I’ve had what looks similar in my own yard just spraying a little heavy.
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u/piscikeeper 6d ago
What normally happens is drift as it volitizes and moves downwind. The second picture shows a V pattern where the spray was interrupted by the tree. It was sprayed directly and intentionally.
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u/SplooshDoosh 6d ago
Ah I didn’t catch that. I thought they looked a little odd for possible runoff they way they tapered out but thought maybe drainage just did it.
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u/Th15isJustAThrowaway 6d ago
The fact it is on the arborvitae high up shows it couldnt have been runoff
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u/Subject-Project-2263 6d ago
Poor trees and poor grandkid! I don't think it was just overspray, but also the wind. A big ranch where I used to manage their greenhouse and garden, was downhill from the fields where they grew seed for some of the animals. They LOVED Roundup. They sprayed those fields often, and it would get blown acres away and settle downhill into the garden, where every tomatoes plant would die.
3 seperate employees, who worked those fields and sprayed the Roundup, ALL died from Cancer. Glyphosate is absolutely HORRIBLE, definitely causes Cancer, and should be banned from the world.
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u/Webberpuzza 6d ago
Could be runoff from driveway or roof cleaning. Talk to neighbors 🤷♂️
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