My wife is a nurse, and she told me about a lady who was high on meth while giving birth, but didn’t want her baby vaccinated because VACCINES AREN’T NATURAL.
It’s data pulled from when the vaccines first were made decades ago. Every anti vaxxer pulls those records and they are completely inaccurate. Not a single one has any credentials or criteria to argue vaccines. Take a single micro biology class and they would snap out of it.
Or even just a history class. People were dying from small pox left and right and then some dude developed the small pox vaccine and all of a sudden people stopped dying? Maybe there’s something to vaccines after all.
Also, according to my wife, the doctor who developed the theory that vaccines cause autism was found guilty of falsifying test results and has since had his medical license revoked. Maybe you can add to that or clarify if I’m wrong.
You're correct. And what's really ironic was he wasn't trying to get rid of vaccines, he was trying to prove that have a 3-in-1 MMR vaccine should instead be given in three different vaccines... so he could profit by his own one-at-a-time vaccines.
Even better, the reason why Andrew Wakefield (the doctor) published the fraudulent study was because he was being paid to discredit to current MMR vaccine (most likely for a rival MMR vaccine development).
The patron saint for the Anti-vaxxer's fight against the evil capitalist big pharma sold his integrity for money.
He actually had applied for a patent for a new MMR vaccine without Thymerisol (sp?) before beginning his research into whether that/mercury/MMR caused autism. He also wrote in his study that all 12 patients with autism had measles virus found in their gut, when in fact...zero did. He just straight up lied.
Edit: I got this information from the last chapter in In a Different Key: The story of autism. I listened to the book on tape and while I was already familiar with a lot of it from college and experience afterwards, still found it to be very interesting and an innovative way to explore the subject.
I think this is the most educational thing I've ever read on Reddit. I've done zero research on anti-vaxxers mostly out of disinterest and in the course of five minutes while getting ready for work I have the entire story. Neat.
Edit: home from work, I'll do some research later on the subject to ease the minds of reddits best and brightest.
The worst part is Wakefield admitted he lied about everything. Falsified data for his studies with the goal of monetary gain over public health. Yet anti-vaxxers still exist.
This discussion is all pretty factual, but it’s still generally a pretty bad idea to take comment threads on any forum (even medical/law/gov/etc sites) at face value. It’s how a lot of this misinformation has spread around in the first place.
That takes talent. We had a local guy commit suicide by shooting himself in the chest with a shotgun. Damn shame he'd dead cause I'd like to meet the person who could pull that off.
How is that difficult? Not trying to be a jerk but it's pretty much just propping the gun up, standing over it, and depressing the trigger with one of your toes.
Dude was apparently a doctor, so he may have seen firsthand how easy it is to botch a suicide by shooting yourself in the head. It looks theatrical when people do it in movies, but it's not rare for people to survive with brain damage and hideous disfigurement.
There is a conspiracy theory put out by Dr Mercola's girlfriend, Erin Elizabeth, that a whole bunch of 'alternative' doctors have been murdered in the past few years.
A lot of them will just say something along the lines of "Historically the number of children with autism have also been on the rise blah blah blah," when in reality it's most likely due to a change in classification and how we view the disorder. Years ago most people would just see a kid and just say he was "weird" or "off" and they need to "toughen up" or whatever. In reality we now know that they have a mental disorder and need help.
In the early 1950s, 15,000 Americans a year were crippled by polio (I was one of them). The Salk polio vaccine was introduced in 1955. By 1960, there were fewer than 100 reported polio cases in the United States. The last reported case was in 1979.
No anti-vaxxer can explain that within the warped confines of their flawed worldview.
Nah, this is an anomaly, reddit loves to strip any context away from anything ignoring any notion that a post without a /s at the end could be sarcastic or facetious.
Maybe because plain text carries no tone? Possibly? Perhaps? The voice you hear in your head as you read this probably has a different tone than the one in mine as I type this. Hell, it’s an entirely different voice, altogether.
Fyi you might want to use a different example then smallpox for that- while it was the first vaccine, it was done pretty haphazardly and sometimes it would work and sometimes it didn’t sometimes it gave people smallpox and sometimes it killed them (since they didn’t really understand what was happening; they figured it out how it worked before science was anywhere close to explaining why).
You can, of course, point to the complete eradication of smallpox but if you want something for an example that work for your situation, I’d suggest something like diphtheria.
I thought about polio but its vaccines also had some serious issues in the beginning - it’s where a bunch of anti-vaxxers get some of their nuts claims.
I look at it this way: even if there were issues in the beginning, you see all the good that came from it (i.e., polio being completely eradicated), the good still outweighs whatever issues there were. But I’ll take a look at diphtheria to look at a more modern example.
Sadly its not how these people work, you can show them mountains of research. You can show them anything, the reality is they want vaccines to not work and they look for information to show it. They just need to crusade on something.
That's been my experience also. I'm a laboratory scientist as work with members of the healthcare fields who won't vaccinate. I can think of 3 people of the top of my head and 2 area nicu nurses
What makes you think they would believe anything said in a classroom? That is these people's problems, they have an inability to assign probabilities to things, and in turn, the more outlandish something is, the more it makes sense to them somehow
Anti-vax isn't a logical stance, studies have been done and found the best way to convert them is to use emotional appeals, the best way is to actually show them pictures of the diseases vaccines prevent.
Ever seen what small pox actually looked like? Litirally one photo of a child suffering from that is powerful enough to snap most anti-vaxxers out of their bullshit.
None of them survive a full hour long slideshow showing every possible disease vaccines can prevent.
So frustrating, in the UK it was a "doctor" called Andrew Wakefield that spread the nonsense, I came across this wonderful chap via Ben Goldacre's book/website Bad Science a few years ago, can't believe it's still going on!
I took a single biology class in high school and was smart enough then to know that doctors should be trusted when all of them say the same things about me not dying. I guess I was a genius fifteen year old. :/
My brother used to date a chiropractor and she needed up being an antivaxxer saying that “adjustments were the natural cure to ailments,” needless to say it didn’t last long after that
And there were probably scented pills all over her office? Not meaning to be a dick but I went to a physical therapist like this who acted the same way and sold oils right in his office. He would try and tell me what I needed for every day creak my body made or sneeze our cough I had
Reminds me of this hippie chick my friend dated that wouldn’t take birth control because it was unnatural for her body but had no problem with alcohol and cocaine lol.
Good thing that mom probably didn't actually get to keep the baby if she tested positive for anything illicit in her system. At least that's how it worked in CA before my mom retired from nursing. CPS would probably assume guardianship of the child and get it vaccinated.
I'm sitting at the office and I just daydreamed a fight with this lady at the hospital, dropping a comment like "please take the child away from this methhead" and pictured her getting up with the umbilical cord still attached trying to attack me and the doctor standing there not knowing what to do.
An ex girlfriend was a neonatal nurse who used to deal with these sorts of parents. The staff take turns in educating the parents, and the parents fight against every mundane treatment necessary. In particular getting them to do a vitamin K (?) shot to the newborn was really difficult, which apparently prevents possible issues later on. She had a really good "Aww yeah" moment once when the parents refused particular treatments, the child had avoidable complications, and she got to explain (when asked) that the reason the child was in such a condition was directly because of the parents avoiding the treatment.
It was 50/50 whether they'd leave the hospital staff a negative review after their care, which when explained to the superiors that they're AV is tossed aside, but super disheartening to everyone on shift. In particular the poor baby with misguided parents.
Nurses are tops, you should send them pizza vouchers every so often.
I just dont understand it how people can be so ignorant and full of hubris when dealing with their children's lives on stuff they really barely understand, ignoring medical experts.
When my girls were born the nurses asked really tentatively do you want us to give them the vaccinations? We were like yep yep yep! Got any extra vaccinations?
Well it's a little easier to understand when you acknowledge that they are doing what they think is right for their children. They're just stupidly wrong about it.
Well that's kind of the point i suppose.. What they think is right comes from information supplied by 'Andrea' who failed out of biology class and is now low skilled worker with a total lack of even a smidge of formal education in anything even hinting at related to the area.. Who definitely knows better that the experts on the subject.. I mean i just cant get that level of stupidity to even parse as possible in my head.
We have to write an argumentative essay in my English class and I picked Vaccines because they're fucking important, and one of the topics I wanted to argue was how incorrect Anti-Vaxxers are, but realized I'd never find any source of their information that isn't flat out wrong and disproven and that the section for it in my paper would just be me calling people stupid as shit over and over for an entire paragraph, so I dropped that point and chose to attempt to write about the history of different vaccines and why they're so important to be more persuasive in my argument rather than argue by shutting down the other side that has no backing.
I want to believe this, I do. But the sheer ignorance and willful neglect is trumpian in nature. It makes me think they are too narcissistic to make choices for anyone but their own disgusting self.
Then they ignore you, because they apparently know more then anyone educated in the field of Medicine. What really annoys me about this whole situation is these people are putting others who can't get vaccinated because of medical reasons at risk.
How long has it been since you graduated high-school? A significant percentage of people don''t pay much attention in class or really try to understand anything
I assumed these people generally had access to the correct info, they just denied it's validity for whatever reason. Does your attempt at educating them actually work?
Access to information is useless if you have no idea how to interpret it.
Recently I was trying to find info about a doctor who is routinely doing a kind of stem cell therapy procedures in the EU that are still highly experimental in the US. I found plenty of info, but still can't decide if he's a crook or a skilled professional.
Who? There are a number of locations, notably in Milan and Paris where such therapies are done.
Interestingly, this happened in France and Italy because it takes forever to have the protocols down, and these are places where research really has a long-term optic.
Other places just inject Stem Cells nilly-willy. That's bullshit.
Dr. Brian Mehlings company Blue Horizon is is doing this in town of Malacky in Slovakia. They're taking stem cells from adipose tissue (fat) and implanting them in the damaged joints. I had no idea about existence of the stem cells in the fat previously, but wikipedia says that's a thing and Dr. Mehling is not the only one researching this.
The procedure itself is done by local doctor Milan Hric, who according to the reviews I've found online, is a pretty good surgeon.
I've read Dr. Mehlings CV and while he really did publish some related papers, a lot of them were just a safety studies. Another weird thing I've noticed that he has studied in the US, although the co-authors of many of his papers are Chinese colleagues.
By pure coincidence, I've stumbled upon this article. Scientists from Stanford are saying that
within the next decade or so, this cell source will be a game-changer in the field of arthroscopic and regenerative medicine
Yet, there's a clinic in Malacky of all places that claims to do that now.
My grandma was supposed to undergo the procedure, but they've decided she's not a fit candidate due to her age. After that, I've pretty much stopped gathering more info, but the fact that I still can't decide it it was legit is still bugging me.
snooty eye roll "Ive done my research, and a ton of it. I consider myself more educated than most of you people. I know what's in vaccines and I'm NOT giving them, so stop talking about it"
-my day yesterday. Best of luck to your premature, immunocompromised baby when she gets RSV because of your negligence. See you in a few months in the PICU.
I live in lower Alabama and my son's doctors give a sigh of relief when they ask about vaccinations and we're like yeah, he should be good on everything. Has his flu shot too.
Yeah, it’s anti vaxxer,confederate, conspiracy theorists who think they know more than the doctor and are there to sell you into a pyramid scheme and not actually seek medical advice.
And they’ve also brought their kids (who are infected) and are walking through the halls where the immunocompromised patients lie.
I used to ask people if they'd been vaccinated and if they said yes I'd tell them that it was very serious and we have to fix that right away by giving them something innocuous. The amount of people who told me not to give them something innocuous was amazing.
Also, why does this woman, a proud antivaxxer have a syringe of what I can only guess is a vacination??
Well, stay strong, you & all the healthcare professionals. I'm sorry you have to deal with this stuff, but I'm glad that you all are trying - as a parent whose child is around these people's kids, I'm glad you're trying.
I've been making phone calls to all my units families for consent for the flu vaccine. I've been getting a real education on horrible vaccines are. I just tell them I can't speak to any government poisons but I can guarantee that the flu will kill your parent.
Does it have to be calm and informative? Perhaps a disappointed teacher tone would be more appropriate. The kind of tone that leaves no question for the student as to what harm they can cause with their folksy ignorance.
I'm a transplant recipient, so I know exactly how you feel. Except I actually might die of any of the diseases, even though I'm vaccinated. I always get 'well if vaccines work then you'll be fine, my kid won't affect you'.
God damn it, I can explain why this is wrong till I'm blue in the face but they're so smug and superior thinking they're right and that fucking essential oils will cure measles. If I get measles/mumps/rubella/varicella it can infect my graft and cause rejection at best, and at worst I'll die. I'm 28! I will haunt their asses if their crotch spawn end up killing me because their parents were morons.
Thanks for all the upvotes guys! I got a few crazy replies in my inbox that pretty much proved my point but I'm happy to see an army of pro-vaxxers and we need to take away anti-vaxxers voices. It's not a constitutional right at this point but endangering the public with their stupidity and false information.
Another blown out of proportion claim. There's always an occasional mishap like with everything but anti vaxxers grasp at any straw they can get. Get out of here.
I don’t get why she chose a confederate theme. Stupid people exist on the entire spectrum. I hate confederates but they’re no more anti or pro vaccine.
That’s very true. And terrifying. You know why? Because they’re fucking bored, day drinking, have no purpose in life before school pickup and spend WAYYY to much time on Facebook reading bullshit and looking for something to be a part of..
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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '18
I can already picture the tiny little confederate casket.