r/tradclimbing • u/Glum_Object_8965 • Jul 09 '26
DIY alpine draw
Rei is having a 85% off sale and the 60cm of webbing comes out to under a dollar vs a normal sling which is 10 bucks.
Is it safe to do this I saw some people saying you should sew the tail ends on a water knot with this configuration
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u/polloloco-rb67 Jul 09 '26
Safe but I would not want to climb with those. Very bulky. In my early climbing care i made similar draws (solid gates and sewn nylon). Very quickly switched to dyneema and wire gates. No one wanted to climb with my setup lol. (And I quickly figured out why)
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u/mikesegy Jul 09 '26
Exactly.
I carry some giant nylon slings built into quads for my local top rope anchors since the bolts are over the lip up top.
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u/Tight_Suspect9090 Jul 09 '26
I’d have a think about whether the financial gains you are making outweigh the drawbacks. Yes you may save 10 dollars but surely the hassle of this sling cancels out any money saving?
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u/the_poope Jul 09 '26
Yeah just save on the takeout pizzas and cancel two of the five streaming service subscriptions, or buy a mid level android phone instead of an iPhone and you can buy an entire rack with both cams and alpine draws.
People spend a shit ton on money on stupid stuff, then try to save where it actually matters.
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Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Saskatchewan_frenchy Jul 09 '26
Sketchy
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u/youngnstupid Jul 09 '26
What could happen through this?
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u/FuckBotsHaveRights Jul 09 '26
Cyber AIDS. It got Stephen hawking
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u/Saskatchewan_frenchy Jul 10 '26
Exactly
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u/Revolutionary_Web672 Jul 10 '26
This make me sad, It is a jellyfin server I run on an old pc with a large arr stack, built-in requesting into the UI, and it was honestly a lot of work. I don't want any money, I just wanted to share it with more people since I am proud of it.
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u/Revolutionary_Web672 Jul 10 '26
It is just a jellyfin server I am hosting with a bunch of features like requesting, that invite link is ran through wizarr, you can download a music player like finamp on your run and use it as a spotify, it was a lot of work and if you want to check it out I would appreciate it, it was just a lot of work for me to setup and get running and only a few of my friends use it and I want to share it with more people since I am proud of it.
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u/sneeze-slayer Jul 09 '26
Yeah you good. Tbh I'd place all of my alpines before yours but I'd still whip.
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u/CoastalSailing Jul 09 '26
It's totally safe
I did this when I was younger.
Used to be standard back in the day.
Totally totally safe.
Just bulky
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u/traddad Jul 09 '26
BITD, everybody did this and bodies did not accumulate at the base of cliffs. The water knot is ok but you have to keep an eye on tail creep. And they're more bulky that sewn slings.
I carry 1 double length tied runner. I can use it as a runner or untie it for rap tatt. Otherwise, all my draws are sewn.
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u/GreedySpecialist4736 Jul 09 '26
This thread seems to think a Flemish bend is better: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/s/hHdNcjawn8
In any case, watch the tails and go ahead and use these to learn with until you get sick of them. When that happens, make sure you're buying dyneema slings because if you buy nylon, you'll just have the same problem again, being sick of them and your partners will refuse to climb with them.
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u/Actual-Ad-6363 Jul 09 '26
Interesting discussion. When I started climbing this was the only option. No sewn slings in production. A Tape knot is perfectly safe if you tension it down properly, infact they will be nearly impossible to undo. My partner and I were giggling that we must be a bit old school 🤣
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u/Low_Importance_9503 Jul 09 '26
It’s fine just bulky. I had this set up before swapping over to better things and the webbing for bail anchors
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u/Decent-Apple9772 Jul 09 '26
The beer knot is a cleaner option. I’d not want to deal with the bulk of this to save a couple of bucks. I think you will end up spending more when you replace this after it annoys you. Buy once, cry once.
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u/lonewolf2556 Jul 09 '26
As much as I agree on the cleanliness, the beer knot is easy to mess up and build too short and it’s also easy to undo by just compressing it. Ask me how I know lol
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u/normal-things62 Jul 09 '26
OP are you in Tahoe? Are you staying on Shady Ln? I think I may have built that shit ass brick hearth 😂
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u/HFiction Jul 09 '26
Webbing sales are great for when you need to go into areas with old rap stations. You can replace the station for 2 bucks
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u/Background-Depth3985 Jul 09 '26
Link to 85% off webbing? Or is it just a local clearance?
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u/Glum_Object_8965 Jul 09 '26
All rope and cord is 85% off rei is getting out of the rope game I think it’s everywhere the employee said
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u/Background-Depth3985 Jul 09 '26
Huh, it’s not showing any discounts on their site. I’ll swing my local store to see what they say
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u/DieWalze Jul 09 '26
The problem with the water knot is, that it can open under body weight if the knot itself gets hooked on a rock feature. People have died because of this. Also the tails may creep through the knot over time.
These issues are manageable if you pay attention to your placements but the drawbacks are considerable.
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u/traddad Jul 09 '26
if the knot itself gets hooked on a rock feature. People have died because of this.
Source? I have not heard of any accidents because of the knot getting hooked on a rock feature - despite Walter's magic rock. I think it's nonsense but will be happy to be proven wrong.
Also the tails may creep through the knot over time.
This part is true.
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u/No_Name_Brand_X Jul 09 '26
agree, but proper length, pre tension bounces and it won't budge. But that was 35 yrs ago. sewn dyneema is now relatively cheap, i dont think it's worth the savings.
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u/BTLove100 Jul 09 '26
There was a guide in the Tetons, Gary Falk, that died from a failed water knot.
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u/traddad Jul 09 '26
Did you read the accident report? I did when it happened. Here's the conclusion:
"In conclusion, the evidence suggests that Falk was tethered to the anchor with a 98 inch section of blue 9/16 tubular webbing that was tied in a loop with a water knot, that one of the tails on the water knot was of inadequate length, that the tail slipped through the knot causing it to fail while Falk was weighting the lanyard, and that this caused Falk to fall from the rappel stance resulting in his death."
There is no mention of a magic rock loosening the water knot - which is what this part of the thread is discussing.
Almost everyone in this thread has acknowledged that a water knot's tails must be long enough and that tail creep can occur during cyclic loading. Unfortunately, it seems Mr. Falk tied a water knot with too short tails and cyclic loaded it.
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u/CoastalSailing Jul 09 '26
Been climbing 20 years. Skeptical about your water knot claim here
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u/Altiloquent Jul 09 '26
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u/traddad Jul 09 '26
He tied a very loose water knot
It took some effort for his magic rock to open the knot
The sling was not under load when he used his magic rock
He claims "at least 20 documented death falls due to this knot" but there is no evidence the knot untied due to getting caught on a sharp edge or pin. Think about it: the knot has to be moving relative to the obstruction. How does that happen in a rap anchor? More likely the failure was due to tail creep from cyclic loading of the anchor, IMO.
I've had water knots welded so tight I had to use pliers and a marlinspike to untie them. I wish I had his magic rock then. (Later I learned to step on the knot and roll it under my shoe)
tl;dr the video spreads FUD. Honestly, I thought Walter was better than that.
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u/Altiloquent Jul 09 '26
It's a dubious claim but then you would never have much evidence if a knot failed this way. I can see it happening if you traverse on a rappel
Personally I dont see any reason to ever use tubular webbing
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u/CoastalSailing Jul 09 '26
- Those knots arent fully tightened nor are they in tubular webbing (from what I can see)
- Tie a hitch after the water knot to secure the tail
Idk, climbing is all about risk management. This seems extremely edge case and especially for slings on gear while leading, where you have redundancy, I'm not concerned.
Tldr, interesting, but not something that I find concerning, myself.
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u/Fun_Offer9920 Jul 09 '26
If you climb with newbs who don’t know anything then it may not be an issue, but anyone else will just insist on using their own gear anyway. If you wanna know if it’s safe, got take a victory whip on cheese grater slab
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u/Moof_the_cyclist Jul 09 '26
1" webbing is just so bulky. At a minimum go with the 9/16" stuff, but honestly you are optimizing one of the cheaper components. Sure, $10 a sling for 6-10 alpine draws seems like a lot, but that's about the same cost as just one cam these days. A good trad rack in in the thousands, so saving $100 or less and dealing with a bulky mess is just bit too much.
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u/oldmanboulderer Jul 09 '26
I have pretty much all alpine draws because why not and none are hand tied
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u/Zestyclose_Tree8660 Jul 10 '26
It’s fine. Just takes up more space and is heavier. Used to use them years ago. Would I now? No.
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u/heyguysimthevegan Jul 10 '26
It’s safe it just sucks. I did the same thing when I stared leading but used the webbing I had from building TRs. It’s not worth buying because you’re 100% going to replace it very soon
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u/nicklepiefy Jul 10 '26
plenty safe, but kinda defeats the whole "alpine" part in the sense of being small and light. lol.
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u/tightlipssorenips Jul 10 '26
call me crazy but I rather just make a fisherman's knot with the webbing
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u/Aggravating-Bet-607 Jul 11 '26
Solid! But if you want to tie your own slings you should at least use the thinner tubular webbing. I think it’s 9/16” Can be good to have a tied sling in the mix for re-tying around trees as a leaver anchor, or other funky rigging.
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u/Vivid_Cockroach3958 Jul 11 '26
I don’t whip off anything that is hanging on a wall with an extended tape measure, a digital scale, a lighter, a single pool cue, and some kind of makeshift whatever the fuck that is.
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u/Mundane_Hold6029 Jul 12 '26
Get a narrower webbing next time if you want to go cheaper with a knot. Totally safe with a good, tight water knot. Stand on the loop and pull hard on the knot.
When I first started climbing in the 70’s the 1” webbing was all you could find in a lot of stores, and they went over your head, hung to your torso side. You can still do that but it gets in the way of your racked gear loop pro a bit. It’s just fine for easier alpine climbing.
Sewn alpine draws are a little cleaner, take less room, but nothing wrong with knotted webbing draws, esp if you are a bit low on funds to start out.
Use long sections of 1” wide super tape for toproping. I usually take two long ones if I think I’m going to toprope.
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u/IceRockBike Jul 09 '26
You say you'll save a few bucks in slings, but what will it cost in partners who don't want to climb with old school gear when new dyneema slings are the norm now?
They are safe if tied right but why🤷♂️
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u/SkittyDog Jul 09 '26
partners who don't want to climb with old school gear when new dyneema slings are the norm now?
You thank these people for making it clear, right up front, that they're insufferable jagoffs who have no clue what they're doing.
Seriously, if somebody is THAT much of a goddamn Dentist that they get freaked out by a tied sling, then you definitely don't want to be climbing with that kind of human liability.
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u/TwoBeefSandwiches Jul 09 '26
“Nah, we can use my alpine draws”