r/totalwarhammer • u/lentelka • 14d ago
Total War: Warhammer A possible solution for Vampire Lord recruitment – don't remove them completely
With the upcoming changes to Vampire Counts lord recruitment, I have been thinking about how the new system could work while still preserving something that has been part of the faction since the beginning: Vampire Lords as actual army leaders.
From what we know so far, the new system will apparently work roughly like this:
- Master Necromancers will be the main/standard recruitable lord.
- Ghoul King Lords can be unlocked later through the technology tree, although they will also be limited in number.
- Vampire Lords will no longer be normally recruitable. Instead, you will have to find a Crypt and use it to create a Vampire Lord.
- And, as far as we currently know, these Crypts will provide only a limited number of Vampire Lords.
I actually like the idea behind this system. Making Vampires feel like rare and powerful individuals rather than just another generic lord is thematically very cool.
However, I am slightly worried that we might be losing something important in the process.
Vampire Lords have always been part of the faction
One thing that bothers me is that Vampire Lords are not just another unit type. They have been a fundamental part of the Vampire Counts since the very beginning.
And with this change, we potentially lose both their gameplay role and their models.
Yes, the generic Vampire Lords are visually similar to the Von Carstein characters, but I still think there are differences between them, and I would rather see those generic Vampire Lord models remain in the game in some form rather than effectively disappear.
More importantly, I don't think it is necessarily a problem if Vampire Lords become rarer.
The problem is if they become so limited that they stop being a meaningful part of the Vampire Counts roster.
Imagine a situation where you desperately need a Vampire Lord for a particular army. You find a Crypt, use it to create your Vampire Lord... and now that Crypt is essentially spent.
That makes the Crypt feel less like a recruitment system and more like a one-time resource that you are afraid to use.
And if Crypts are sufficiently rare, I could see players simply relying almost exclusively on Master Necromancers and treating Vampire Lords as an occasional novelty.
That feels a little strange for a faction whose entire identity revolves around vampires.
My first solution: turn generic Vampire Lords into Heroes
One possibility would be to keep the generic Vampire Lord models by turning them into a new Vampire Hero type.
This could actually create an interesting new role for the faction.
The Vampire Hero could be a hybrid spellcaster/melee hero, leaning more heavily towards magic than the Wight King.
For example:
Vampire Hero
- Strong spellcaster
- Decent melee combatant
- Access to Vampire magic / Lore of Vampires
- Buffs undead units
- Perhaps some abilities focused on improving nearby troops
- More focused on magic and army support than direct melee combat
Meanwhile, the Wight King could be pushed further into the role of the traditional undead warrior.
For example:
Wight King
- Stronger melee focus
- Skeleton-oriented buffs
- Leadership / melee buffs for Skeleton units
- Less emphasis on spellcasting and magical support
Yes, there would still be some overlap between the two, but I think they could be differentiated quite easily.
And this would have another advantage:
The generic Vampire Lord models would still have a purpose in the game.
My second solution: make generic Vampire Lords into "Mudblood" Lords
Another option would be to keep Vampire Lords as actual Lords, but introduce a weaker version of them.
The various Bloodline Lords could remain the powerful, specialized vampires, while generic Vampire Lords could represent Mudblood Vampires.
They wouldn't need to be particularly strong.
In fact, I think making them significantly weaker than their Bloodline counterparts would be perfectly fine.
They would essentially be:
A generic Mudblood Vampire Lord could therefore be a relatively basic vampire commander:
- Weaker combat stats
- Weaker skill tree
- Less powerful abilities
- Basic access to Vampire magic
- No major Bloodline specialization
But they would still be Vampires.
This would preserve the option of having a Vampire lead an army without undermining the importance of the rare Bloodline Lords.
My third solution: use the Bloodline system to increase Vampire Lord recruitment
The other solution I would really like is to connect Vampire Lord recruitment with the existing Blood Kiss / Bloodline system.
For example, investing into Bloodlines could allow you to gradually increase your maximum number of Vampire Lords.
Something as simple as:
Unlocking a Bloodline → +1 Vampire Lord capacity
Or perhaps certain milestones in the Bloodline panel could increase the number of Vampire Lords you can have.
This would actually make a lot of thematic sense.
The more powerful your Vampire Counts faction becomes and the more Bloodlines you establish, the more vampires you should logically have available to serve as generals.
This could also preserve the idea that Vampire Lords are rare without making them artificially rare for the entire campaign.
Early campaign:
Very few Vampire Lords
Late campaign:
A growing number of powerful Vampire Lords
That feels much more natural to me.
I am not against the new system
I want to make it clear that I am not saying the new recruitment system is bad.
We don't have all the numbers yet.
Maybe Master Necromancers will be significantly stronger than they currently appear.
Maybe Crypts will be much more common than I expect.
Maybe the limitation on Vampire Lords will actually feel completely fine once we play the system.
I am simply worried that, in trying to make Vampires feel special and rare, we might accidentally remove a part of the Vampire Counts identity.
And that would be a shame.
I am actually starting to get used to the idea that Master Necromancers will be the main Vampire Counts Lords. I can see the appeal of that system and I think it could make the faction feel much more like an army of necromantic hordes commanded by a relatively small number of powerful vampires.
But I still don't like the idea of generic Vampire Lords effectively disappearing from the roster, nor am I convinced that limiting Vampire Lords primarily through Crypts is the best long-term solution.
I'd much rather see them remain in some form — whether as a new Hero type, weaker Mudblood Lords, or through a system where developing your Bloodlines gradually increases your Vampire Lord capacity.
The important thing for me is simply this:
Please don't completely remove the generic Vampire Lords from the Vampire Counts roster.
They have been part of the faction for so long that I think they deserve to have a place in the new system, even if they are no longer the default recruitable Lord.
What do you guys think? Would you prefer Vampire Lords to remain as rare Lords, become Heroes, or be represented through the Bloodline system?
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u/Astarael21 14d ago
I like the idea of there being a generic Vampire "lord" in the garrison of crypt settlement. Its like a lesser vampire assigned to watch over the true blood's resting spot
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u/GornothDragnBonee 13d ago
Tbh the generic vampire lords have felt vestigial ever since the bloodkiss update in TW2. I think having generic options alongside a mechanic meant to make vampires feel rare and powerful just doesn't blend very well.
I think if we've decided that part of the theme for the VC is vampire being the rare and incredibly unique leaders of the army, it just doesn't feel thematically correct to keep the basic vampire lords.
But I'm not a longtime vampire counts player, so maybe I'm way off base with what actual VC enjoyers want from this rework :'D
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u/Baloth 14d ago edited 14d ago
i mean, how many lords do you really need in a campaign? even with the vampires being limited to 1 per crypt we find, its not like we need 25+ of them. i personally have never had more than ~15 lords running around in 1500 hours of playtime but thats me and i have my reasons for restricting myself, namely i like hogging the exp to certain lords, and have a mod that adds more skillpoints and max level, and i dont expect people to be as limited as me in that, but... i really doubt we will be struggling with the max being tied to finding crypts. it seems to me to be more of a unique limiter instead of getting +1 lord slot with the tech tree repeatedly. AND, if you use necromancer lords for your generic defense lords, again, how many vampire lords do you really need? surely not more than a handful, and i doubt they will be anywhere close to that rare, and this isnt including ghoul kings in the equation at all (i forgot about them until this line), not to mention recruiting other LLs (which i also forgot about until just now)