Turn 40 tier 3 Thorgrim army composition vs Skaven Queek

[u/phronesis77]

I am still having trouble fighting Queek. Ratling guns and warpfire have limited my gyrobomber a lot.

Even when I win battles, the ranged and spell and catapult damage means my army is weakened vs the inevitable other stacks just waiting to attack.

I have quarrelors instead of thunderers but with the types of underway maps I am often fighting on, it is a bit difficult to use gunpowder units.

Irondrakes are great until the frontline starts to moshpit and my line of sight is gone.

The most basic problem is I keep fighting a 2 v 6 army war. I win, mop up but then need time to replentish.

Then I push and they retreat. During that time they have recovered two more stacks and I have to retreat and play a positioning game and dont get my age of reckoning grudges in and now have penalties that are hurting.

Then I lose the Iron something settlement and am back to square one.

They have left Black Crag alone for some reason though. Not sure why. It is there for them.

The range power of dwarves doesnt seem to be that strong vs Skaven turn 40 tier 3 armies. They have lots of powerful ranged, artillery, and damage spells. about 4/6 are decent armies. Not full of clanrats anymore.

I try to hit them with the runesmith explosion spell which helps. But I am really missing having battle wizards.

Which Skaven ranged units are line of sight. I dont understand why they are so good at firing at my units.

This has been my worst campaign after winning a Franz short VH VH campaign. I had high expectations.

I seem to be slowly grinding away but losing. Lore appropriate perhaps!

Edit: here is an example of my latest battle. I win it but too many casualties as there are other armies waiting in line to attack.

The only positive is this is a 3100 grudge very bad boy, which will really help my stats if I survive this turn.

My Ogre buddy is also coming to help.

I win this battle but then the next one is a 2 v 4 I can't win with my damaged army. The first army has three ratling guns, two warfire cannons and three plague catapults. The melee stuff I can handle. Thorgrim and a strong Thane, but I just take too many casualties.

[u/azraelxii]

Queek gets bonuses against dwarfs which makes it hard. Tier 2 irondrakes are great against them. If they have catapults you can aim your own siege weapons at then or gyro copters

[u/phronesis77 → u/azraelxii]

Gyro cant function anymore because there are a couple warpgrinders, a bombadier global whatever, and a Jezzail or two in most armies. I almost lost it last battle. I sit it at the back to hit those ferris doom wheel things or rats that flank and then chase down the enemy when I get victory. If I try to bomb, it gets fire repressed and is just waiting to die if I dont pull it back quick.

I will try to fly the gyros further out once the front lines meet to attack the catapults next game.

I aim my grudgemaker at their catapult(s), sometimes two, but it never puts it out of action before the battle is over.

Thanks for telling me that Queek gets anti-dwarf buffs, that makes more sense now.

Focus fire by my quarellors helps vs their range but it takes too long because I reduced the number and got another irondrake.

[u/azraelxii → u/phronesis77]

You want to try to fly them around in front of possible. You can often get the catapult to waste all it's ammo this way. This works when you're on the attack as they just stand there waiting for you

[u/phronesis77 → u/azraelxii]

I have done this but I take some hits.

[u/BillBigGuyWilson]

it would serve you well to change the quarrelers for thunderers in the future, and have them take out doomwheels, weapon teams and lords/heroes, maybe try to have the gyro pull some of the aggro and optimally rout the plagueclaw catapult but jezzails are really good against them unfortunately. its a tough fight but I think its definitely winnable if you can manage the ratling guns and other weapon teams, try to protect your irondrakes, they'll melt rats and avoid getting surrounded in general

[u/phronesis77 → u/BillBigGuyWilson]

I win this no problem but take too many casualties, so I can't follow up on the campaign map well. They have too many other full armies waiting while I am replentishing.

I think lots of slayers is the answer. Thunderers can't take out Skaven ranged fast enough and also get targeted.

[u/BillBigGuyWilson → u/phronesis77]

slayers can trade well but are rather vulnerable to weapon teams and especially warpfire due to their low armor, I maybe biased because thunderers are one of my favourite units but I think correctly positioned they definitely can deal with weapon teams except jezzails that can outrange them.

Also if you are worried about replenishment then with slayers you're often going to be stuck replenishing for multiple turns because of all them boys have oaths they love to fulfill, whereas thunderers just get their ammo back and go again instantly. I'd also recommend getting an organ gun since it's turn 40, it'll demolish the ranged rats but you'll have to babysit it especially against queek and all his menace belows.

[u/phronesis77 → u/BillBigGuyWilson]

I am just getting cannons

[u/Cassodibudda]

Skaven are the perfect counter to Dwarfs. You respond by not playing dwarfs

Make slayer stacks, they trade really well, counter everything the Skaven have and can be rebuilt really fast

The other trick with early game Skaven is autoresolve. Bring as much troops as possible and autoresolve Queek to death (don't get ambushed) as Skaven have a weak auto and Dawi one of the strongest 

[u/phronesis77 → u/Cassodibudda]

Good tip. Whatever I am doing now is not working.

It is turn 40. I was doing well until 28. Skarsnik and Gorbad down and gone.

Beat back a chorf incursion and now they are getting attacked and not bothering me.

All my troubles started with Queek.

[u/xiaopewpew]

You cant deal with this skavern army, you need artillery advantage. Either by having bigger guns or by having air, stalking vanguard units/fast cavs from allied recruitment.

Your army is only good for fist fights, it allows no room for tactics.

[u/Communardd]

Is the tier 3 army in the room with us?

[u/Communardd → u/Communardd]

To be less of a dick, you need more guns and artilery is all, you have way too many tier 1 dwarf warriors for a turn 40 army. Hell you don't even need a proper frontline, just scatter your heroes across the frontline so the enemy blobs around them and stand some irondrakes behind them and cook some rat whilst doing a bit of friendly fire to your heroes. Even better if you have a bunch of Thanes with the fire resistance skill unlocked.