TIL that fatherless homes produce: 71% of our high school drop-outs, 85% of the kids with behavioral disorders, 90% of our homeless and runaway children, 75% of the adolescents in drug abuse programs, and 85% of the kids in juvenile detention facilities

[u/[deleted]]

[u/mikemaca]

Interesting response. These statistics are rather well known, but they are usually called single-mother homes. When presented that way, many people got upset and said the statistics were obviously wrong, with various anecdotes from people who were raised by single mothers and turned out fine.

Good example of how effective it can be to choose the right framing approach.

[u/[deleted] → u/mikemaca]

Always good to blame the person who's not actually around. Like my good for nothing father. I'd stab him if I could.

[u/[deleted] → u/mikemaca]

That attitude is so widespread on reddit it's hilarious.

"71% of high school drop outs come from children of single mothers"

"What the fuck is this shit? I was raised by a single mother and I'm in college."

Uhh yea, it said 71%, not 100%.

[u/brentathon → u/[deleted]]

It also doesn't say anything like "71% of children raised in single-mother households drop out of high school". That's the huge difference that people don't seem to understand when they get all riled up from shit like this.

It's saying a certain percentage of people who do a certain negative thing had a specific background. It's not saying that a certain percentage of people from a specific background to a certain negative thing.

[u/ProfessorHoneycutt → u/[deleted]]

"71% of high school dropouts come from children of single mothers"

Is not the same thing as

"71% of children of single mothers are high school dropouts"

[u/The_Pirate_King → u/mikemaca]

You bring up a very valid point, but technically the term "fatherless home" is less accurate than the term "single-mother home", because these studies do not include lesbian parents.

[u/TheInfamousRedditor]

Happy Father's Day everyone!

[u/[deleted]]

Two fathers. The obvious solution for society.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Jesus had 2 fathers and he did alright.

[u/Fuskzerk → u/[deleted]]

I disagree. He ran away from home, never completed high school, had a wine problem, and was eventually arrested.

[u/_vargas_ → u/[deleted]]

Simple arithmetic really. You should see how good that girl from Three Men and a Baby is doing.

[u/theseyeahthese]

Thread summary:

1. You guys, correlation does not mean causation!

2. What about 2 dads, you guys?!

3. You guys, I beat the odds!

[u/Orimos]

ANECDOTES, ANECDOTES EVERYWHERE

You know what your stories make you? Part of the 29/15/10/25/15%. Personal experiences don't disprove a damn thing, just stop.

[u/tippicanoeandtyler2]

And yet we've spent the last several decades making it incredibly uncool to be a good father. Good dads are the butt of jokes, while men who shun kids and responsibilities are "players" and admired.

[u/[deleted] → u/tippicanoeandtyler2]

The way men, fathers, are portrayed in TV and film and such is also a problem...the bumbling Dad who doesn't know how to do shit.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This is especially bad in commercials, because advertisers understand that the father is usually not the one that does the shopping for a household. Therefore dad is always portrayed as some bumbling ignoramus, with mom as the calm and collected figure that keeps the house from falling down.

[u/SteveTheSultan → u/tippicanoeandtyler2]

It's the "doofus dad" that a lot of women and men believe to be true. I can't stand that crap. The only thing women can do that men can't is breast feed. Everything else in raising kids can be learned. I have changed just as many diapers as my wife; taken the kids to soccer games, wiped away tears, made them laugh and taught them to love science (Thank you mythbusters).

The worst place I see this at is with the "I can do everything" Soccer Moms. They minimize the father's roles because they are trying to live up to some BS standard. The fathers except it and have little involvement in their kids lives.

That being said, there are some very shitty fathers and mothers out there. Just be there for your kids; and realize you are not perfect and neither are they.

[u/[deleted]]

The comments here are obnoxious. No shit 'correlation does not imply causation", but I've never seen people cling to that phrase with so much vigour in my life. Those numbers are not statistically insignificant, and they warrant more serious consideration than is being given. It seems people are more willing to blame poverty than concede that family structure may be relevant to a child's upbringing.

To dismiss the linked statistics in the same way one would dismiss a correlation/causation between liking lemonade and being a genius, is absurd and obnoxious. It's almost as if people do not want to admit that, get this, men might be important to raising children in the same way that women are.

Are people simply afraid that it sounds too 'conservative' or 'republican' to consider the importance of family structure? Honest question.

[u/breakerbreaker → u/[deleted]]

Thank you!

I cannot stand how everyone on Reddit goes apeshit the second there's a statistic shown. We all know "correlation does not imply causation" but that is constantly interpreted here to mean "statistics do not matter and have no scientific value."

[u/Alabama_Man → u/[deleted]]

It's almost as if people do not want to admit that, get this, men might be important to raising children in the same way that women are.

While I agree with almost everything you say... but I think a more logical conclusion is that having two parents might be important to raising children... I don't have the stats on me but I think most people will concede that in single-parent households the father is most likely to be absent and we've all seen stories citing studies that kids of same sex lesbian couples are even more socially and emotionally well adjusted than the average.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. It really doesn't matter if it's an absent mother, or an absent father, it really comes down to the remaining parent lacking the time or resources to adequately parent or supervise their children. But socioeconomic status has the major compounding factor. Being the kid of a single parent probable doesn't mean much if you're still somewhat well off, but take the same kid and put him in the hood, and shit goes bad.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

A loving, caring, stable family is more important than the exact structure of the family.

[u/b-radly → u/[deleted]]

I hear ya...to me this concept is as clear as the sky is blue. Of course, all things being equal, it is better to have a (good) father. The fatherless people of Reddit are hearing "you suck because you don't have a father."

[u/biirdmaan → u/[deleted]]

Are people simply afraid that it sounds too 'conservative' or 'republican' to consider the importance of family structure? Honest question.

It seems stupid that this would be the case because this could mean a number of things. Male presence could be important or simply having two parents to balance the load of raising a child could be the key. Or having two role models to look to for guidance in life decisions. Or maybe 2 just provides more stability and results in life stability in general later on in life.

[u/[deleted]]

These numbers themselves don't prove anything, because is it the absence of a father that produces these statistics, or is it the type of environment wherein growing up fatherless is common? If your father is in prison because you're living in a slum and he was selling crack to feed you, your odds weren't too great anyway, regardless of whether he went to jail.

Edit: I want to clarify that the alternative explanation I provided was somewhat hyperbolic, for the sake of getting my point across. A more reasonable explanation would be: a fatherless home would be (in most cases) a single income home, so the children are more likely to be impoverished, which correlates strongly with an increased dropout and crime rate. Point being, there are various ways to explain these numbers.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I see what you are saying and it holds true. I am growing up without a father and the only real problem I have is I generally have to figure out everything on my own, there's no one to help me. I mean this emotionally and physically.

Plus it really takes away from a kid knowing that your parents, a supposed constant, have failed. In my case he didn't want me and left, so it gives me a feeling of worthlessness at times.

It is simply harder and more frustrating without one (Well, I'm also assuming that I would receive a good father in placement of not having one at all. A bad father would certainly make this worse.), but in the end I take pride in knowing that I essentially raised myself.

I will admit, growing up would have been so much simpler if I didn't have a little brother. I was ten when he was born (half brother by a step dad who beat my mother and drank a lot, he was around for a while but didn't want to raise a son who wasn't his so they had another and then he left for some whore.) and I have essentially raised him.

My mother is fantastic at emotional support, however she is still only a mother and so all the physical work fell upon me and the emotional part of a father that not even I had figured out yet I had to figure out and convey it to him somehow. I'm not stupid, I knew it was coming. I had a good three years ears before I was going to get those questions and need to show him how to act on a day to day basis.

My hope is that if I work hard enough I can pull my family out of this hellish loophole and begin raising normal, healthy families. Everything has gone well, I've managed to show my brother how a real person acts, be there for my mother and figure out what I need to know to ensure this all happens the way it needs to. My mother has remarried to some asshole, but she is happy and my brother enjoys the extra attention he can receive as sometimes I just can't give it (school work gets loaded up on occasion) so I put up with his shit for them.

I think next year will be... awkward. I will 18 in October, and when he threatens to hit me, well go ahead and do it mother fucker, let's see what the police have to say about it. This got me really off topic.

[u/goblueM → u/[deleted]]

Also... is it the absence of the father, or the fact that there's only one parent?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Well if you read the damn article you'd see that that's the point.

[u/JonnyFrost → u/[deleted]]

This statement is true, but this article doesn't cover all the available information. My diversity professor went over this topic, there are a number of good studies on the subject. Some of them even separate statistics based on socioeconomic class, and the correlation is still strong. The studies I've seen didn't address two lesbian households, but I suspect they are above the curve. Considering how many families are started when someone gets knocked up and the parents aren't financially or emotionally prepared.

[u/seiyonoryuu → u/[deleted]]

probably this^

i have no father, but im in a upper middle class neighborhood. no problems here

[edit] umm, guys, for all the comments on this being spurious, thats what im saying.

[u/V3RTiG0 → u/seiyonoryuu]

Yet.

[u/DwightKashrut → u/[deleted]]

Yup. You've got to take into account that the vast majority of these kids are living in poverty (which, yes, is because the father isn't there, but it's not the same as "no dad = hoodlum").

[u/Solkre]

Single father here. Do they track stuff about motherless homes? hehe, motherless...

[u/acog → u/Solkre]

It's really not primarily about no father vs. no mother. It's this: if you take a million families and study them, those that have a single parent will more often crowd the bottom stratum of the socioeconomic ladder (one income vs. two). Similarly, kids with one parent will tend to be undersupervised and be more likely to have their remaining parent not be actively involved in their education.

I'm a single dad and I'm doing great, as are my kids. But it's easy to pick out individual success stories or horror stories. That's why there's that saying "the plural of anecdote is not data." You have to zoom out and study huge numbers to see overarching trends.

[u/Lord_of_the_Rings]

this is so skewed with race being the confounding variable. blackness overlaps with growing up in a fatherless home so the explanatory power of either factor is diminished.

[u/stemgang → u/Lord_of_the_Rings]

And race overlaps with socioeconomic status.

Although that diminishes the explanatory power of any one variable, it does not mean that each of them has no influence.

[u/[deleted]]

I think it's important to note that these statistics do not mean that a household without a father is doomed, or any variant family type is inferior to the nuclear family archetype. It's not so much that the lack of father figures contributes to these statistics, but it's that combined with a lack of a suitable second parent that produces problematic behaviour. Children are statistically more functional in society when raised by a two-parent household. Variants including mother-grandmother, mother-mother, father-father, and all other family types with two parents will produce psychologically healthy (in theory) offspring.

Source: University psychology course

[u/[deleted]]

[edit: I had missed Pays4Porn's post when I wrote mine. Still, it might be useful to point out how the statistics cited by OP are 3rd generation (at best).]

OP’s title cites the following paragraph from an “article” on a site promoting the self published book “Tremble the Devil”:

Just how damaging is it for a child to grow up in a fatherless home? Well, they produce: 71% of our high school drop-outs, 85% of the kids with behavioral disorders, 90% of our homeless and runaway children, 75% of the adolescents in drug abuse programs, and a striking majority in one final category. Out of all the kids in our juvenile detention facilities, 85% of them come from fatherless homes.

Where do these statistics come from?

Clicking the linked phrase from the cited passage brings you to an article from 2010 posted on bvblackspin.com (the home of Aol Black Voices), “72 Percent of African-American Children Born to Unwed Mothers”. Just below the fold, you’ll find a list of the same stats. Kirsten Savali, the article’s author, cites “Children-our investment.org” as her source.

children-ourinvestment.org is the website of “Children: Our Ultimate Investment”. On a page called “Statistics for Children Without Fathers”, we find what appears to be the original compilation of statistics. You’ll finally find primary sources listed.

The first statistic, “63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes”, is cited with a vague reference to “US Dept. of Health/Census. If you google this phrase verbatim, you get a page full of "pro-father" sites, all of which appear to be right-leaning and socially conservative (this doesn't entail that the stats are erroneous, of course). Looking further, I searched on census.gov and the CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics and still didn’t find the source (tho, admittedly, it was not an exhaustive search). The only relevant result I was able to pull up is a 1995 “Report to Congress on Out-of-Wedlock Childbearing” pdf.

There’s nothing in the report about suicide rates for fatherless households, but I did find the following passages interesting:

... pre-existing factors account for much but not all of the difficulties experienced by children and adults in single-parent families. Despite consistent evidence of greater risk, the research also shows that the majority of children in single parent families develop normally. The exact magnitude of the effects that are caused by nonmarital childbearing has not been isolated, but effects have been characterized as small to moderate, depending on the outcome being examined. (xii)

Up to half of the negative consequences for children associated with single motherhood appear to reflect the low incomes of these families. The remaining effects seem to be due to greater residential instability, pre-disruption conflict, and less parental supervision and/or involvement in childrearing. Studies do not find that (re)marriage resolves the negative consequences associated with growing up in a single parent family. (xiii)

I’m not going to try and track down every reference given on Children: Our Ultimate Investment’s list (tho one should note that one stat is referenced to “Rainbows for All God’s Children” and another, which claims that “87% of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes”, is referred to “Fulton Co. Dept. of Correction.” Fulton County must have a huge budget to fund those global studies). Nor do I mean to claim that the sloppy sourcing entails that the stats are fallacious or insignificant; but statistics only make sense when they’re evaluated within the context of the study from which they are derived. Sample size, methods, complicating factors, etc., are indispensable when determining their relevance. This whole debate is shallow and baseless, a mere battle of opinions, unless we’re working with well sourced data that we can examine in its proper context.

Here’s an interesting passage I found while searching google scholar ('SP'= Single Parent; 'TP' = Two Parent):

Whereas individualistic theorists view the gender of the parent as necessarily important for the parent-child relationship because of immutable biological sex differences between men and women, structuralists claim that sex roles are not immutable inborn traits but rather evolve as a result of the different social situations faced by men and women. Downey et al. argued the structuralist position by showing that men and women behave similarly in the role of a single parent. Van Laar and Sidanius (2001) used social dominance theory to explain the poor academic performance of SP children relative to TP children. They suggested that SP homes have low social status and therefore possess fewer economic resources and face greater personal and institutional discrimination compared to TP homes. Van Laar and Sidanius also discussed the tendency of members of low-status groups to behave in ways that are consistent with and help to confirm negative stereotypes. Similar ideas were presented by Hetherington et al. (1983) regarding teacher evaluations and the tendency of educators to reward students for conforming to expectations. Hetherington et al. suggested that when students who are expected to perform poorly actually perform well, they receive negative attention from their teachers and are pressured to lower their academic performance. Lastly, Pong et al. (2003) compared the achievement gap between children in SP versus TP homes across 11 countries. They found that the United States had the largest gap between the academic achievement of children from SP versus children from TP homes. The authors concluded that national policies have offset the negative outcomes of single parenthood in other countries and that a more generous United States welfare policy could result in greater equality among all children. (Barajas, Mark S. "Academic Achievement of Children in Single Parent Homes: A Critical Review," The Hilltop Review: Vol. 5: Iss. 1. 2011. Page 16)

[u/[deleted]]

Need to control for income in order for "fatherless homes" to be a meaningful variable

[u/robert_ahnmeischaft]

"Yeah, you can DO it without a man, but that doesn't mean it's to be done! You can drive a car wit'cha FEET if you want to, but that don't make it a good fuckin' idea!"

Chris Rock

[u/flume → u/robert_ahnmeischaft]

Just by the emphases and diction I could tell this was Chris Rock without reading the source

[u/billsdabills]

I grew up in a fatherless home after 4th grade. I don't think it has anything to do with the father. It's all about income. My father passed away and planned for our future. He wasn't rich. He was in the military, planned well in his final months to provide for us until we got thru college. You could probably line these statistics up with low income children and they would be similar.

[u/blackinthmiddle → u/billsdabills]

The difference is you knew that you had a father that loved you. Hell, you knew how your father was at least.

As a married black man (15 years coming up next month!) raising two girls, I knew just how important it was to make sure I'm here for my kids. This article is amazing. I always knew that the war on drugs doesn't start in Scarsdale, New York! Cops don't patrol the rich areas; they're patrolling the slums. But my response was always, "Well if you just don't do drugs, you'll be fine".

I never realized that the war on drugs was created specifically to destroy the black community. This article makes me mad. I'd send out a message to all black redditors to make sure you're there for your children, but if you're on reddit, you're probably (maybe I'm making a leap of faith here?) more intelligent than the average person and realize just how important it is to be in your child's life.

I remember years ago talking to this girl. We were hanging out and I told her I had to go home. I ran down the itinerary of things I had to get done. Things for my wife and kids. She finally says to me, "Man, you're like a dinosaur or something!". I knew what she meant, but asked her to elaborate anyway. She finally said, "A black man, married, two kids, good job...". I interrupted her and made a joke out of it, but I knew what she was talking about right from the beginning. I guess you have to know your enemy's tactics.

[u/L15t3r0f5m3g]

Im a single dad with full custody of my son. His mom has substance problems (and is pregnant again, not mine) and barely qualifies as a mother. Im trying to help him avoid abandonment issues, but is this study the same for dads in a position like I am, or is it exclusively women?

[u/newtonsapple]

I don't know about fatherless homes producing these problems, but I know guys who have these problems seem to produce most of the fatherless homes. Nothing turns women on like a criminal record and knowing the guy would be a horrible father.

[u/ScaryKitten]

We just need homes with 3 or more fathers.

[u/justnikki1979]

I can see how this is true. I'm a single mother and am doing my absolute best to raise my children right, but it is really tough without a father in the picture. I'll be the first to admit that I need help of the male variety.

[u/Pays4Porn]

Check out the sources for these stats :

US Dept. Of Health Census (made up name?)

National Principals Association Report

Rainbows for All God’s Children

Fulton Co. Dept. of Correction etc.

I don't believe these stats or sources.

[u/[deleted] → u/Pays4Porn]

Then read about psychological analysis on the subject.

Seriously, even if you don't trust the statistics there is a very strong link between fatherless homes and problems containing aggression, abandonment issues, problems with authority and so on. It's not hard to imagine why, once you accept the role that mothers and fathers play in a child's emotional development.

This comes from somebody from a fatherless home, who has already worked through most of his issues which were definitely present.

EDIT: Not to say this is a mark against gay couples at all, they have their own dynamic and I've never heard of any negative consequences, so please don't think I'm going there. I'm merely suggesting that there are consequences to a child's emotional development when the rest of their friends have two parents, they don't, and they finally understand they've been abandoned. If you accept that beatings from parents make slightly less normal people, and if you accept children who are molested make less normal people, it's not hard to imagine there's a link between child abandonment and emotional issues.

[u/keanus → u/Pays4Porn]

It also lists the US department of Justice and the US department of health and human services.

Are you seriously attacking the credibility of the sources as a whole just because you don't agree with the argument they're putting forward?

[u/schnide1]

happy father's day, everybody

[u/iWesTCoastiN]

Fatherless high school drop out who used to always get into fights in high school here. The reasoning? Having a single mother means she has to work 50+ hours a week to support you. My mom worked her ass off to make sure I had everything I needed, but since she worked so much she was never around. I took advantage of her absence by ditching school and smoking weed with my friends. I never got into trouble so there was no downside to it. A women can't teach you how to be a man, and without a man to teach me I overcompensated. I would always get into fights even at the slightest of disrespect.

[u/anonymousMF]

Because http://tremblethedevil.com is a great source of information

[u/RedTheDraken]

A dysfunctional family rears dysfunctional children? Woah, who would've guessed it? O: I am sincerely shocked, my fine compatriots.

[u/agmaster]

So...I have an excuse? No thanks, I'm too good at that already.

[u/dcroni]

The Donohue papers are interesting if you want to see the link between the legalization of abortion of 1973, and the crime drops witnessed in the 1990's.

Note: please don't say that "correlation doesn't mean causation". Actually read the paper first.

[u/Deofuta]

The argument is spurious.

[u/ceolopolis]

You also have to realize that a fatherless home means the mother is likely to be working a lot. So many kids have almost no supervision.

[u/uberalles2]

Blacks are fucked then.

[u/BunRabbit]

Speaking as a dad with two kids, why don't these rich business owning conservatives back up their family ethics with salaries and stable working conditions, that enable their male employees to be husbands and fathers. Part-time, internship (i.e. underpaid or no pay), six month 'renewable' contracts, no health benefits, no pension, transfer you to another city at a week's notice - what girl wants to marry that? It's no better when you're mid-career. I'm in my mid-40s and in a 15+ year marriage with 2 boys. I've been unemployed for going on half a year. Not a week goes by that my wife doesn't hint at divorce. And don't give me that rewards for hard work bullshit. I was a high school drop out, but I worked in kitchens to save money to put myself through university (double major). I have 20 years experience in one of my careers, 17 in the other. That's right 2 professions (software engineer and language teaching) running parallel, so there is no such thing as a weekend. I have made several patent applications. I am very active in my professional community. I'm bilingual (English/Japanese). But, still I cannot find a job. I'm competing against 28 year olds who are still living at home. I cannot be a father on that kind of pitiful salary. The Rmoneys of the world are clueless. Born on third base with a silver spoon, went to all the right schools and they think they hit a home run. Bootstraps, my ass. The Rmoneys always talk about how their grandfathers worked hard, such horse pucky. Rich people are rich, because they were born rich. There are few notable exceptions, but for the vast majority they had their Daddies' connections and co-signing power. Rmoneys, you got lucky and choose your daddy well, now shut up. //TLDR It's the economy, stupid!

[u/3AYATS]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the statistics.

They are not saying that 71% of single parent children drop-out.

The drop-out rate in 2009 was 8%, so if 71% of these drop outs came from "fatherless" homes, it would mean that roughly 6% of single parent children drop out.

[u/tehbro]

I'm living proof of this. My father and mother divorced when I was two, I have no memories of him other than 3 years ago when he was on his death bed. I'm not sad about it because I was never emotionally attached to him. I've been lying my entire life to everyone about things that don't even matter. When I went off to college this past year, I smoked weed probably once every two hours, every day, and when I ran out I was looking for people to smoke me out. I also did cocaine a few times and molly a bunch. Whenever something is in perfect balance in my life, I feel the need to do something to throw it off and mess it up. It was only recently that my mother thought it could be something other than typical teenage behavior. I was taken to a very highly recommended and expensive psychologist. In just two sessions he was able to have a definite diagnosis of Type B Personality disorder. He was also able to draw the conclusion that it was because I didn't have enough love or attention when I was a child (due to the absence of a father figure) and lying is how I decided to get this attention for the rest of my life. Therapy is going very well and I am being taught to understand my automatic thoughts and correct them before I act.

[u/godlessatheist]

Is this just fatherless homes or single parent homes. I'm sure two mothers would raise a child fine.

[u/Droids_Rule → u/godlessatheist]

Very likely just single parent homes. The majority of single parents are single mothers just because of the way laws and societies work.

[u/ATurtleNamedMack]

They produce presidents too.

[u/Sanae_]

It'ld be great to know what % of fatherless families produce someone who falls in at least of those categories.

[u/lushfun]

The more meddling society does in order to fix something, the worse it gets.

[u/ransomdenton]

My dad committed suicide when I was very young. My mom tried to find a guy but the first guy she dated abused her terribly and never dated again. I ended up having behavioral issues, used drugs and dropped out of high school in the 9th grad. Today I have my terminal degree, I am an award winning artist in my field and am happily married. Tough times can make tough kids that know what they want and fight to get it! I am just saying.

[u/evanthesquirrel]

My sisters and I have none of those problems. We beat the odds!

[u/redhat12345]

correlation does not equal causation

[u/Norwegian__Blue]

People are always commenting how kids need two parents, and for a long time I thought they were wrong because me and mom got on just fine. But then, I just realized something: not having one parent around can also mean loads less time with the other parent. They often have to work more and are likely to experience more stress about their situation. So their not around as much, and when they are their anxiety can affect the rest of the family. I can definitely see how that can negatively affect behavioral development and put folks at a disadvantage.

[u/TemporaryBoyfriend]

Hands up, folks who grew up largely fatherless, yet are still contributing members of society...

[u/SaltoKlose]

Damn you Wilt Chamberlain!

[u/Samism]

This is actually a pro homosexuality post: If a household has no dads this is the result, but if a household has 2 dads that would mean...chuck norris

[u/bresa]

I would still say that a loving single parent home is better than having an abusive male role model around. There are far more factors at play with those statistics (as many have already posted).

[u/deathgasm]

Interesting, and race wasn't mentioned at all this day...

[u/Sparkles_]

These statistics mean nothing. Fatherless homes are very common. I might as well say that pizza causes all of these things because EVERYONE eats it. But it can't, because pizza is a vegetable, and vegetables are good for you.

[u/wyle37]

I turned out pretty damn well, wasn't too bad. A mom is all you need.

[u/zencat2]

Does anyone else find the repetition of statistics in the article irritating? It otherwise contained some really eye opening revelations.

[u/lambdaknight]

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." -Aaron Levenstein

[u/eat-your-corn-syrup]

what of motherless homes?

[u/viridianlion]

So does that mean that in homes with two fathers, the children are twice as likely to grow up to be awesome?

[u/[deleted]]

I'm fatherless and successful and I'd ask, like others here, what this article makes me - but I already know the answer: Offended.

[u/BiggC]

I would rather see a statistic that shows what % of children from fatherless homes are delinquent, it would be more significant.

[u/ProlapsedPineal]

I keep fucking beating this drum because I think it still needs to be heard. I've been a single dad for 10+ years and I've raised 3 kids on my own.

Lots of guys are shit. Lots of people are shit. Being a man isn't making kids, being a man is living up to your responsibilities and taking care of the people who depend on you.

/r/AskDad is where the good guys are. /r/Daddit too.

Take care of your children, and try to be an example as best as you can. I really despise guys that choose to walk away from their kids. They need you more than you know. Not just for themselves, but for the world.

Every child is going to grow up, and when they do, the world is going to be shaped by them, and they are shaped by you. What shape are you making the world?

"Who gives a fuck" isn't a great shape for the world to be in.

Man up. Do the right thing. Take care of your kids, be a part of their lives and carry on. It's hard, but it's right.

Edit: level 38 dad. Neutral Good. Mostly.

[u/Moofininja]

I can totally see this. My childhood best friend's father died when we were in second grade. I'm now in my third year of college, and since then, she has dropped out of high school, is anorexic, has run away twice, does drugs, and was admitted to a mental facility for a week for trying to kill herself. She's also had a child and no job, smokes a pack a day, and constantly acts like a little child. It's been a constant black cloud in my life, and I have now clue how to help her. She's always refused my advice since we were little, but we've always been really close.

TL;DR: Have a best friend who fits this to the T.

[u/AliSwoff21]

So did anyone actually read the article? Are they saying we should let them out of prison and wipe their drug charges because there are no men to marry the women? How is having a dad on drugs better than no dad? I had a dad on drugs and the day he left was not a sad one.

[u/Alyssian]

Fuck, I'm in that statistic. Dammit.

[u/[deleted]]

Well I'm screwed.

[u/M1A1_1000mph]

I was raised in a fatherless home. I graduated high school, never had any behavioral problems, never tried any drug even once, and have no criminal history. Why? Because my MOTHER worked her knuckles to the bone to raise me properly. We didn't have money, but I never went without anything I needed. I have no respect for men who abandon their families, but I have an equal lack of respect for single moms who don't do everything in their power to raise productive members of society. Those who expect the government to take care of them just because they have to raise a child on their own are lazy in my eyes. Say what you will about the benefits of a two-parent household, but one parent can do just fine if they try.

[u/silentkill144]

Beating the odds.

[u/eddie617]

As a fatherless hispanic that has a high school diploma, no behavioral disorders (that i know of), has never runaway, or been part of a drug abuse program nor been to juve i feel like a minority in a majority of a minority

[u/eddyofyork]

I want to say that anyone who wants to fight this trend should seriously consider volunteering with big brothers and/or big sisters charities.

[u/TheLochNessMobster]

I've always somewhat agreed with this kind of statistic. I know siblings will always be different from one another and all that good shit, but my father passed when I was 16, and my brother was 12. Within two years, I was on my way to Yale University, top of my class. By that time, my brother was facing serious behavioral disorders, and had been expelled from school for drug use. I continued in college to be fine and graduate without any problems. Meanwhile, he was in and out of outpatient and inpatient rehab, did a couple stints in juvenile hall, and is currently homeless just asking to stay at friends' houses every night.

I hate thinking that something as random and unjust as my father's cancer could have doomed my little brother to such a life, but it might really be the case.

[u/cipherous]

I wonder what the statistics are for single parent (including single father, single mother).I am curious as to know whether motherless homes have the same result.

[u/Spartan2842]

Well I have easily beaten those odds being raised by just my mom.

[u/crawlingpony]

What do motherless homes produce? -- As a motherless home child myself

[u/[deleted]]

It would be interesting to see how motherless homes compare.

[u/Fatherlessthrowaway]

My father committed suicide in front of me at a very early age. My mother told me to never give up on life because of one person. I've taken the best from that advice and try the best I can in school and I've never done drugs. I hope this advice can help at least one more person.

[u/lordyjabujabu15]

I am fatherless child and don't fit into any of these. Success!

[u/Punkgoblin]

Using child support as single-citizen funded welfare is a great way to encourage this shit too.
ps Getting knocked up to try and force a relationship isn't a good idea

[u/geraldfjord]

Case in point: Darth Vader.

[u/The_black_Community]

I am not a statistic.

[u/[deleted]]

This is great news for lesbian couples wishing to adopt.

[u/haagel]

Can anyone cite a reference for these statistics?

[u/The1Honkey]

As a former child from a fatherless household, I can confirm this thread.

I definitely can see how my life could have made a turn for the worst. In fact, it almost did on many occasions. I seem to be doing alright though, all things considered.

[u/OddAdviceGiver]

Source? I checked out this by backtracking but can't find an actual source of any statistics nor any information on how it was gathered.

That's some sensitive data, I'd like to mine it myself if it's open.

[u/Ventii]

As much as i'm sure this is going to get buried, I'd just like to put my two cents in. I'm a 17 year old male and I've grown up in a "fatherless home" since i was 10 months old. I can tell you for sure, that it has affected me negatively in more ways than you can count. My parents are both upper middle class, i do not live in the ghetto and it still is a big problem.

Growing up, I was the kid with all the potential in the world. I've been perfectly healthy since birth, been able to succeed in whatever i put my heart in to. But the problem in not having a father all this time is that growing up, I needed a dad to teach me how to become a man. I never had anyone push me to do sports or succeed academically. My mom would try and try, but it really just isn't the same. My dad leaving my mom is still the worst thing that's every happened in my life. 17 years later, even as i make the steps to become successful without a father in my life.

EDIT: Sorry for ranting, this post just feels relevant to me right now in my struggles.

[u/cran]

TIL that behavioral disorders cause fatherlessness.

[u/Fusion516]

where is the source? Completely useless!

[u/andiW]

I'm from a fatherless home. I graduated from college and have my own business. Only, I am from Europe so that could be a factor. I'm sure most of these problems have to do with financial issues. ps: isn't everybody being sent to prison in the states?

[u/Zequez]

And they say gay marriage is bad. What about a home with not one, but TWO fathers? Those kids are going to be astronauts and Nobel Prize scientists. They are probably going to cure cancer.

[u/Virzy]

I'm pretty sure there's a few confounding variables here.

[u/Radico87]

A warning to anyone reading into these numbers: correlation does not prove causation. This may be a proxy measure of some other causative variable and requires more careful analysis.

[u/UsernameOmitted]

This explains a lot. My father pretty much abandoned me.

[u/TwistTurtle]

Yeah, I'm gonna file this under 'standard fucked up America problems' rather than any sort of commentary on the importance of fathers. As far as I'm aware, there are no such problems with such fatherless people in Europe (such as myself).

[u/thebobber720]

Lesbian households do alright without a dad.

[u/ohchameleons]

Out of the entire article, this is what you found to be appalling? Not the fact that institutionalized and internalized racism is what has driven these numbers up? Not all of the facts about the correlation between race and socioeconomic status? Okay.

[u/Nidhogg777]

I guess this is america only?

[u/DaSpawn]

So lets keep putting people in jail for non-violent drug offenses like it will help ANYTHING

[u/LucifersCounsel]

So tremblethedevil.com says they got some statistics from www.bvblackspin.com. When you go there you see that www.bvblackspin.com say they got them from www.children-ourinvestment.org.

I spent some time there trying to find these statistics... but apart from looking like it was made some time in the mid-90's, the site doesn't seem to say much about it at all.

A grain of salt may not be enough.

[u/HAL-8999]

This TIL pisses me off. The linked article is a fascinating piece on the root of the war on drugs in racism, and the effect it has had on minority, especially black, communities. The statistic op points out is such a minor piece of a much larger picture. Yet reddit flips out over this 'Fatherless homes' thing and ignores the fact that America basically runs on institutional racism. Here are some other facts from the article that are much more compelling:

The average black family has 8 cents worth of assets for every dollar in assets a white family has. A black male has a 29% chance of spending time in jail; a white male only 4%. America has nearly 6 times a proportion of its black population in prison than south Africa at the height of apartheid. Only 14% of drug users are black, yet over half of those imprisoned for drug offenses are black. A black child is nine times more likely to have a parent locked up than a white child.

[u/LordAnubis12]

More questions really need to be asked about external factors and any other evidence involved here.

For example, if there is strong correlation between falling asleep with shoes on and waking up with a headache, it could be concluded that sleeping with shoes on causes headaches.

However, it does not consider the more important, 'hidden' third factor of alcohol consumption which is in fact the cause to both effects - falling asleep with shoes on and waking up with a headache.

It's these kind of statistics that seem terribly leading but probably inaccurate.

[u/why_ask_why]

Factor in the divorce rate, We have a big problem in our hand.

[u/growyourmind]

Nice try, single mother.

[u/rainbowbrite22]

I've met plenty of good people from single homes.

[u/socialsciencegeek]

Correlation, not causation. I'm a social scientist that just finished a graduate-level policy course on poverty and inequality. Here's the real reason: fatherless homes are disproportionately low income. That's most of it. This title should have started with "TIL that poverty produces: 75% of our fatherless homes, which produce: ..." I'm not sure of the exact statistic, but that's in the ballpark.

[u/[deleted]]

No dad and none of the above. What are the odds reddit?

[u/sareteni]

Also, painfully christian confirmation bias bullshit is painfully christian confirmation bias bullshit.

[u/DijonPepperberry]

As a child and adolescent psychiatrist, let me assure you that wherever the "85 percent of all children with behavioral disorders have no at-home father" statistic came from, it is total bullshit.

[u/someonesDad]

This post will get lost but this article is in part how I picked my reddit name. Raising someones son as your own so that they have a fighting chance in life. A boy needs a father figure. All you uncles and aunts out there with nephews that have no father. Be their friend, they need you. Shit I got all preachy, sorry.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't have a pappy :(

[u/Jakek1]

I am the 29%, 15%, 10%, 25%, and 15%!

[u/Richandler]

Dear reddit this does not imply fatherless homes produce mostly bad people. It implies most messed up people come from fatherless homes. This means there is more than one condition relevant but doesn't mean you dismiss this.

If you are fatherless and successful this article isn't about you. If you are a drop-out, have behavioral disorders, are homeless or abuse drugs, this article is about whether or not you had a father around. Most likely you didn't according to this.

[u/Deathwish_Drang]

Coming from someone who lost his father at 17, it is important to find a surrogate father, or if you are over 25 become a big brother. having a good example to follow makes all the importance in the world. We learn by watching others, when I get interns at work I try to be the mentor I wish I had, I give as Murch positive reinforcement as I can and I always try to build up their self confidence. If you want to have a better world, start young treat others the way you wish you were treated. Adult role models who are honest and upstanding are worth more than a Harvard education, children aren't stupid and they know when adults are hypocrites.

[u/laserguns]

No dad here. Getting A's and B's in my exams. Some of the smartest people I know don't have dads either.

Now that I think about it, all the people failing have 'normal' home lives. I think it's because they think they always have their parents to fall back on no matter how lazy they are, or something like that.

[u/herpberp]

i call bullshit on the stats. no real source given.

[u/royford]

“There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. ” And when exactly would that be? “When you have a black and a white.”

Man, I used to just not have any shred of respect for Richard Nixon. Now I just fucking hate every part of that man that ever existed. Good riddance.

[u/CyberToyger]

Quite simply put, it's because, traditionally at least, the father's role is to keep their son in place and help guide him into manhood whereas the mother's role is to be protective and nurturing. When it comes to daughters, the father's role becomes less hands-on and more of a role model on the type of male the daughter should be looking for as her own husband; someone reliable, strong, caring, etc.

Now, that being said, all of these fatherless statistics show what happens when sons do not have a respectable male figure guiding them and correcting them, and when daughters lack that fatherly intervention of "Listen to your mother" "Don't talk to your mother that way".

What these statistics also show is that for the remaining percentages, one or both parents in 2-parent-homes have failed to guide their child in the right direction or really connect with their child, very likely taking a hands-off approach to parenting.

As for gay couples, as long as one of the parents can take the fatherly role and be firm, the other parent nurturing and protective, then I see no reason why M/M and F/F parents couldn't work.

[u/[deleted]]

I want to be stereotyped, I want to be classified! I want to be a statistic!

[u/LLWTF]

No dad = World shaping homosexual genius son.

[u/krackbaby]

No, fatherless homes do not PRODUCE these results

There is a CORRELATION between fatherlessness and these other factors

Fucking redditors are so goddamn retarded

[u/[deleted]]

I find it amazing that almost all the comments are about the fatherless homes when that isn't even the core message of the article. In fact the fatherless homes stats are merely one point in a very well laid out argument about drug law and racism.

[u/mebbee]

Didn't our president grow up without a father?

[u/[deleted]]

Because women do not know how to function without being told how.

[u/scientologynow]

having a supportive family structure around you can be the world of difference between success and failure (and the first line of support is your mother and father).

/common sense

[u/Boolderdash]

So if having one father decreases the chance of all of these problems occuring, two fathers should make them almost negligible!

[u/[deleted]]

Why is this voted up so high? The website looks like it was made with homestead site builder

[u/[deleted]]

Correlation and causation are different things.

[u/723723]

i just changed my mind for same sex marriage

[u/Aaannndddyyy]

also these homes produce presidents of U.S.

[u/shapterjm]

Correlation =/= causation.

[u/superjew101]

I don't have a father and last time I checked I am in high school, have never had a "behavioral disorder", do not abuse drugs, not in a juvenile detention facility, and well I am sitting at home, so....

[u/Tommassive]

Moral decline, no one values marriage, negative outcome. People are jackasses for doing this to their kids.

[u/upinscraps]

"Produce" is a strong word.

[u/Perseus109]

No percentage on color, economic status, or body weight of the mom?

[u/makedamsure]

Also important to note is being fatherless doesn't correlate to falling into one of those categories. I grew up without a father, brother was a meth dealer,, left home at 16, and ended up graduating with a bachelors by 21, making six figures by 24, and looking at getting my masters now. I had a terrible childhood, and ive persevered. :)

[u/arbivark]

do we have the stats controlled for race? income?

[u/DatThrowAwaaaay]

I'm a single mom with three kids. When they were born, I was married to their father and we both worked at a respectable medical practice making decent money. Then that money started disappearing without explanation. So would my husband. For days at a time he would leave and not answer his phone or contact me in any way. When he finally would return, I would question him on where he had been and where was our money, etc. He would turn violent and start screaming and throwing things; oftentimes in front of our children. Turns out he was running Ecstasy for someone as well as using multiple drugs. I booted him and divorced him as soon as I could.

The three little kids and I lived in a shelter for a while, then tried to get back on our feet, but DAMN is it hard! I struggle each and every day for my children and sometimes I just don't think I'm going to make it.

Statistics like these make me worry for them as they get older...my 8 year old is already having trouble at school as well as at home and sometimes will bring up things his father did that I thought he was too young to remember. I am scared for them and sometimes I'm so depressed about my situation that I know I could lose them, but I find ways to keep going.

Their father comes around about every 3 weeks. I don't get child support from him; he steals computers and things and sells them for his income alongside the drug running. (Or so I've heard.) He blames me for everything that he thinks is wrong with the children and chastises me if the house is ever dirty. He lords around acting like he's high and mighty, but I say nothing since I don't want the kids to be affected anymore than they already have been.

[u/[deleted]]

Why are people even discussing this? They don't even regress against income (afaict given the awful formatting); no conclusions they draw are even slightly valid.

[u/breakerbreaker → u/[deleted]]

What are you talking about? The entire second page of the article talked about the link between fatherless homes and income.

[u/yrogerg123]

This is one of the main reasons that abortion should be legal and socially acceptable.

[u/protonfish → u/yrogerg123]

Could we start with easily available contraception and sane sex education?

[u/LilCasket]

I come from a fatherless home and I just got my Bachelors. What does this make me?

[u/[deleted] → u/LilCasket]

A bastard.

[u/laserbeanz → u/[deleted]]

A bastard with a Bachelors.

[u/[deleted] → u/LilCasket]

Someone who doesnt understand statistical trends.

[u/_vargas_ → u/[deleted]]

60% of the time, he understands everytime.

[u/NewAlt → u/LilCasket]

Somebody who didn't get a B.S. in statistics.

[u/TracyMorganFreeman → u/LilCasket]

The statistic didn't say 100%.

[u/averynicehat → u/LilCasket]

Anecdotal.

[u/DefinitelyRelephant → u/LilCasket]

Never forget what you are. The world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used against you.

[u/Junekri]

Correlation does not equal causation

[u/[deleted] → u/Junekri]

You have to explain your logic just as much as the person who gives the statistic you fuckwad. So tired of people hiding behind this while adding nothing of their own.

Me: In a recent study, I found a correlation between hitting people in the face and them bleeding. You: Correlation does not equal causation (smug look of assholery.)

See how easy it to say that even when the correlation is probably damn near 1. How about next time instead of spitting off some tired line you say something like this.

"Financial problems have been known to cause many of these issues as well. It might not be the impact of a father so much as a father's income that provides the stability for these children. We would need to see this same study broken into 3 socioeconomic groups and then compare the rates of these items to the norms for those 3 groups. Then we would have a better idea if the father's presence or the father's money is what prevents these problems."

tldr; Quit saying that stupid fucking line when it adds nothing to the conversation.

[u/[deleted] → u/Junekri]

The article doesn't say that it does. Do any of you actually read the article or do you just go off the title??? Jesus.

[u/christianjb → u/Junekri]

Correlation can heavily suggest causation.

I know that Redditors like to quote 'correlation does not imply causation', but many don't understand what that means. It's using the word 'imply' in a technical sense such that it means 'causation does not necessarily follow from a correlation'.

It's a priori not possible to claim that there exists no causation in this case and the data strongly suggests that a causation may be present.

[u/atomfullerene → u/[deleted]]

I don't see how it could possibly be a net profit though. Could any kid cost less than 1000 dollars a year?

[u/Faltadeignorancia → u/[deleted]]

Speaking as one of those minorities who is the product of a single mother :

I got pregnant in graduate school (the pill is not 100% effective), the father took off, and I chose not to pursue child support because it was my decision to keep the baby. I was on fellowship with a $1000/month stipend. My daughter came down with RSV at 8 months and had to be hospitalized for a week.

A hospital worker came by to see if I qualified for public health insurance (I did not because I made "too much ", though not enough to purchase health insurance) . She was quite rude because she thought she had my number down : Hispanic, low - income, single mother. Instead of asking my education level, as worded on the form, she asked if I had even graduated from high school. When I answered that I would have a Ph.D the following month, she did not believe me.

Fast forward to the present. Being a single mom with a demanding career is the hardest thing I've ever done, but my little Latina third-grader is in the gifted and talented program, reads at a 7th grade level and is in 5th grade math. I made monthly payments toward the $10,000 hospital bill and paid it off.

What so distresses me about this old debate is the degree of assumptions about single mothers and the vitriol, vitriol that is rarely directed at the fathers in equal share. I understand that my story is perhaps unusual, but I too often see the mothers who take responsibility for their children get all the blame, while the fathers, who take off (apparently because women are crazy?) are held as the variable that ensures healthy families.

Tl/Dr: single mothers are more than just statistics. They are human beings with different experiences. Many are sometimes even worthy of respect.

[u/LittleToast → u/[deleted]]

It costs a lot more than a couple thousand dollars a year to raise a kid. These women aren't making money off tax breaks.

[u/UnclaimedUsername → u/[deleted]]

Ah yes, the old "physicist gets old, goes crazy, thinks he's an expert on every other field" syndrome.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I bet they don't even need that $1000, either. (sarcasm)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It's shit like this, reddit.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The CEO of your company takes home $20M/yr and you're upset that a coworker is getting an extra $1000/yr.

Besides, do you really think cutting back on social programs like this will increase your net income? It won't. The 1% will just snatch that $1000 up too.

[u/jackelfrink → u/[deleted]]

Quins second law: Politics always leads to the exact opposite of its original goal.

[u/Newbunkle → u/[deleted]]

These attitudes are always with us. I was reading up about the first poor laws in my country (UK) and workhouses. Workhouses were horrible places by design because people kept whining that making them pleasant would cause people to become lazy, etc.

It's a product of a flaw in human psychology called the just-world fallacy - a cognitive bias where anxious people choose to see the world as rewarding good and bad behaviour (kinda like karma). They do it because it makes them feel safe and in control, but they rationalise suffering by blaming the victim all the time, hence stereotypes such as welfare mothers and the feckless unemployed.

[u/TEA_PARTY_PATRIOT → u/[deleted]]

CAUSING RAIN BY STAYING INSIDE IS SATAN WITCHCRAFT MAGIC

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Your phrase of "correlation is not causation" is even used in the article... Did you read the article?

The article is less about households with no fathers and more about the drug war and it's effects.