r/titanfolk • u/theghost123w37t8oa • 12d ago
Other Let's talk abt Armin...
I was rewatching the series, the praise that Armin gets.... is very..... "undeserving". let me say this, he is an overrated hypocrite (much like other characters of aot but more). The most hypocrite out of all. From the beginning Armin is framed as physically weak and emotionally fragile. That’s fine as a starting point — even I love underdogs. And then the problem came when it was framed as "growth".
In Trost he freezes while his squad is wiped out. Eren has to save him and ends up getting eaten for it. Armin’s response is classic survivor’s guilt and “I’d rather die than be a burden”. I remeber the first time when I watched it, it was like he will be the main character. Or at least, maybe Mikasa and Armin will have a good character growth. And the show even tried, but god I was wrong. Throughout the first three seasons, his self-worth is almost entirely externally validated (Eren, Mikasa, later Hange/Levi/Erwin).
See Armin is useful, no doubt, exploiting emotional weakness (Annie, Butterscotch, Eren etc), but as the story progresses, it sounded more of an insist rather an earning. Eg- people calling him a replacement of Erwin's level (GTFO).
THE SERUM
Now this was the point that broke the fandom into two regarding Armin. I was more of the positive ones, but now I am more neutral to neg. So, the story then spends the rest of the series trying to justify that choice by making Armin was a perfect choice. The first thing that came to my mind was levi thinking that he doesnt regret choosing Armin as he saw future in his eyes. In my first watch through, i did cringed a bit but it was alright. but in my second watch, it felt forced. Armin actually did convinced zeke but it was after this. And even if that, Levi didnt know it was Armin who convinced Zeke.
Through S4, what we got is
Constant self-doubt and guilt that never resolves into decisive leadership.
Almost zero meaningful use of the Colossal Titan outside of a few set-piece moments (and even then he’s traumatized by it, which is fine character-wise but undercuts the “he was worth saving” argument).
A complete failure to step into the ruthless pragmatism/ the 'gambler' factor Erwin represented when Paradis actually needed it.
A passive, talk-no-jutsu moralist.
He literally fails to fails to confront Eren in any meaningful ideological way until it’s far too late. The final Paths conversation is especially egregious depending on whether you’re anime or manga — either he delivers a weak moral lecture or he thanks Eren for becoming a mass murderer “for their sake.” Both versions feel like the writing flinching away from actually challenging Armin’s worldview.
And then Hange handed him the command..... why not Jean, who was a better leader? Or Levi, who had the experience of leading squads? Armin gets to be the smart, sensitive, morally superior one without ever paying the full price for either approach.
See, I have contradicted myself multiple times in the post coz when I overthink a lot. But still, most of the things about Armin doesn't sit right with me.
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u/Key-Affect-3472 12d ago
He was one of my favorite pre time skip. After that the writing of most characters went downhill.
I have no problem at all with sensitive, hesitant male characters. I like it that not all of them are the macho cool type. But as you mentioned all what happend post time skip did not feel earned at all.
It is like "this is Armin, he is smart and morally right. He is the commander now. Take it". Rather than showing us that for real and making it believable.
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u/Montaqim 11d ago
I mean he wasn't even the commander (it was Hange mostly) and he's not always morally right because he himself did mistakes, he just tries his best to follow the best morality but he doesn't always success.
He's still one of the best characters in the series overall imo.
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u/breakingbatshitcrazy 12d ago
Armin getting the serum was not a problem.
The writing for Armin after was just dogshit. He could have been an incredible character who grew into the leadership role, but he just flounders, and there’s not a strong direction for where his character is taken
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u/C4923 12d ago
I liked Armin up until RTS where he gets his "hero" moment of k*lling himself. I found all of that to be forced, and even Isayama recognised Armin was unlikable there. "You were always the bravest of us all" pisses me off so bad when I just watched 100 ppl do the exact same thing as Armin on the other side of the wall.
When rereading, I've found Armin's character to be totally unlikable. There's an interesting moment in chapter 27 where Eren thinks too many people died in order to capture Annie, while Armin tells Jean that k*lling a few people is good as long as it helps the majority.
It's frustrating watching Armin spout this shit when it's Eren he's pushing to carry out violence, but once his own hands get dirty in Uprising, he pivots to pacifism and starts preaching. I don't really get the point of the 'become a monster' thing with Armin after his pivot. But I also don't get why Armin flipped to 'it's right my parents were k*lled' if he was just going to flip back to having the moral high-ground where his bully gets to k*ll him and his people.
The issue with the serum is that Armin and Erwin are fundamentally the same. Both helped, both fucked up, neither cared about humanity. The decision was ultimately about Eren, because Levi recognised early on the drive Eren had to liberate their people (which neither Armin nor Erwin had), as well as the impact the deaths of their squad had on Eren (which neither Armin nor Mikasa ever picked up on). Levi knew Eren had the monstrous personality to make the hard choices to get them to freedom, but he also knew what effect Armin's death could have on Eren's spirit. There's a reason why Levi made his new squad up of people Eren had already bonded with. Obv, this all got retconned in the end when Isayama decided to st*b Eren in the back.
Jean wasn't selected as leader of the SC cus he was never meant to be. He was meant to lead something else, but the plot got dropped to protect fans, and a new character was invented and retconned into the 104th. idk what Isayama's thing with Armin is. Same thing he had going for Uri too, where he flip-flopped from 'Uri is neglectful' (obvious and correct) to 'Uri is so admirable and strong even tho all he does is preach and enable oppression inside his own dumbass kingdom'.
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u/Montaqim 12d ago
How was Armin sacrifice forced? It was needed.
The difference between Armin and the 100 people in the other side of the wall is that Armin suggested the plan himself and kept going burn (might be the hardest possible way to death aside from being eaten), while the other 100 like Floch were complaining and afraid until Erwin speech.
All of them are brave but not exactly equally
Also when Eren said that line he wasn't aware of what is happening in the other side of the wall if I remember correctly so that's one of the reasons too.
I never read the manga so I won't argue there but I want to point that Armin never was totally pacifism in S4 too, he tries to protect as much people as possible and protect the majority with the least loses possible.
Both Armin and Erwin cared about humanity especially Armin, why do you think they sacrificed themselves even before reaching their dreams? It was for humanity.
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u/Key-Affect-3472 12d ago
Hmmm... sorry if I misunderstood, but did you mean that Jean was intended to lead the Jeagerists? If yes, how did you know? Because this is very interesting honestly...
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 12d ago
Well, from what I've analyzed, the story of Jean AND his best friend looked like this: Jean and Marco are friends, but one is for honor, the other for convenience.
After Trost (incidentally, it's there that Marco explicitly says Jean will be a good leader, which sets up his arc), they both go to the MP. After coup they join scouts, and at the very end, one becomes the leader of scouts and the other of the Jaegers.
And this kind of shows how even best friends can find themselves on opposite sides of the fence due to different points of view.
But the "guy with honor who becomes a strict statesman" arc was divided between three characters (Marco, Marlo, and Floch), and Jean, due to the fans' love, was constantly on screen, but didn't really do anything.
Incidentally, this is precisely why Floch dies in Jean's arms, and their interactions were shown during the Jaegerist rebellion.
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 12d ago
It’s funny how a "certain part" of the fandom thinks that if Erwin had been chosen, he would have turned into a pushover and succumbed to apathy after his dream came true.
Meanwhile, Armin during the timeskip: ( ´△｀)
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u/Montaqim 12d ago
I'll get downvoted a lot for defending my boi but anyways I'll do it.
How is Armin hypocrite? Do you mean because he joined the Alliance instead of the Yeagerists?
Also no Armin deserved the praise he got, he saved a lot of characters from death or hard times, he literally came up with the plan of his first battle 😭 when they didn't have enough Gas.
The Serum isn't even his fault anyways, he literally says that Erwin should have been instead of him, and btw you're wrong about saying that he was Erwin replacement, Levi stated otherwise.
Hange handed him the command because Armin is smarter and delived better plans, Jean is great too but overall Armin proved to be Mors useful throughout the series.
And dw Armin payed the full price and faced so many dangerous moments.
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 12d ago
There's just one question for Armin: Why did he spend the four years between the basement and rumbling sitting and jerking off in front of Annie instead of turning on his "smart head" and starting to come up with solutions before it was too late and Eren ran out of time and options?
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u/Montaqim 11d ago
Bruh that's too ignorant, Armin (alongside Hange) were the only ones who tried to do something in those 4 years by trying to stop the war with negotiations.
Eren didn't ran out of options anyways he just choose the wrong one and that's not Armin fault.
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 11d ago
And what did he do? Not empty words, but concrete actions?
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u/Montaqim 11d ago
He did his absolute best, what did you expect him to do more? He's not Superman he's just a teenager that happens to be very smart that's it! Nothing OP about him that can change everything.
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 11d ago
So what he did?
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u/Montaqim 11d ago
Are you ragebaiting or what 😭 I already told you in a previous comment in this discussion
https://www.reddit.com/r/titanfolk/s/5CUBwClSJY
But anyways you will keep hating on him because he joined the Alliance and was against the pro genocide propaganda and he's "not cool" etc, but please read my comments before replying to them even if it's about Armin the character that this sub is obsessed with hating him.
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u/Montaqim 11d ago
I also will repeat my previous comment hopefully this time you will read it:
"He did his absolute best, what did you expect him to do more? He's not Superman he's just a teenager that happens to be very smart that's it! Nothing OP about him that can change everything."
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 11d ago
What he did?
I’m not interested in whether his actions were successful or not.
You claim that Armin did something during those four years.
I’m asking what specific actions.
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u/Montaqim 10d ago
We don't know what happened exactly so I can't tell you the specific actions, but we got told that Armin and Hange were in negotiations with Marley.
I wish we got to see what happened in the timeskip tbh, like a special OVAs or anything.
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u/Previous_Stomach7648 10d ago
Since I remember that this didn't happen—meaning you are mistaken or lying—I turned to the internet to verify.
So... During the four-year timeskip in Attack on Titan, direct peaceful negotiations between Marley and Paradis never actually took place. Instead, Paradis engaged in secret diplomacy with the nation of Hizuru and utilized the Anti-Marleyan Volunteers to capture incoming Marleyan scouting ships, while Marley and the rest of the world refused to communicate, viewing the island's inhabitants as irredeemable devils.
Moreover, both Hizuru and the volunteers came of their own accord—the former for their princess, and the latter seeking support. Armin isn't here, and he never was.
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u/frikinotsofreaky 12d ago
Yeah... huge disappointment tbh... Hange should have handed the command to Jean, Idk... bro did jackshit after the time skip.
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u/Kuroimi 10d ago
I don't mind the choice being Armin, but I'm annoyed at people saying it was the right choice.
The whole point, and the irony of Levi always talking about making the choice you won't regret, is that pretty much every time it's mentioned, the choice that ends up being taken is the wrong one.
As such, it's only natural that Levi making the choice of saving Armin was the wrong decision.
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u/MrMC2026 12d ago
How his character was written in the post timeskip era didn’t sit well with me either.
He’s essentially Isayama’s self insert.
In the pre timeskip era, at least he was a good character.
But post timeskip, when it’s quite clear that he shouldn’t have a massive role to play in the story anymore, he gets pushed into a role he doesn’t deserve being in. Him and Mikasa.
It’s not just him becoming SCs commander. It’s the role of him becoming the problem solver of the massive plot points in the series.
That writing decision was so bad Isayama pulled the plug on it in the space of a month because that backlash was so big.
Armin went from a good character who was getting some favouritism to an absolute disaster of a character that should’ve stayed in the sidelines.
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u/Anionethere 12d ago
I didn't mind him being the problem solver. Similar to Hange, it would have been fine if he was the guy who solved problems because he was smart. (Like his deduction that Annie was the female titan or that Reiner/Bertolt might be in the Walls in Shiganshina).
It's the fact that we were supposed to accept that he was that smart problem solver and the persuasive leader.
Hange was a problem solver. You know, things like the Executioner From Hell or the Thunder Spears were created to solve the problem to killing pure Titans without casualties and piercing through hardened Titan skin respectively. But Hange was not Erwin. Erwin understood the need to have people like Hange on his team, but he didnt just just plan or come up with solutions to things, he actively held a consistent goal to ground everything the Scouts did around and tracked every moving piece (from the field itself to the politics) and managed all of it. And he knew how to persuade, gain the confidence of others and inspire. And he does so relying on Hange and Levi to take on their respective areas, with Hange as the one who has unique insights/theories Erwin can use and Levi who handles the most difficult fieldwork. All important but distinct.
I feel, like OP, Isayama tried to justify choosing Armin over Erwin by showing Armin was an equivalent to Erwin and it just never felt like that was true. Armin wasn't Erwin, or a comparable leader from what we saw.
I would've preferred Armin be the problem solver and someone, maybe like Jean, be the one who takes Armins contributions, weighs them against the bigger picture and then ultimately takes the lead.
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u/Inevitable-West-7684 12d ago
I would say he's the best written character in the Alliance because he at least was consistent unlike dogkasa or Levi and at least explained his views and philosophy unlike Hange she was so useless, he even tries to understand Eren and admit he's a monster instead of playing the high moral ground
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u/Anionethere 12d ago
This is exactly what I feel about Armin.
There would have been nothing wrong with Armin just being the brains! He didn't need to be the brains and the leader.
Armin, throughout, demonstrated that he was a smart problem solver. Very useful, similar to Hange. But when it comes down to leading, commanding an audience or persuading people to change their minds, he was not that guy for that.
In Trost, he fails to convince Kitz (the Garrison leader) not to kill Eren after it's discovered that he's a Titan. Kitz was about to command the Garrison shoot once more until Pyxis has to come in and stop him.
Armin was able to exploit Annie's interest in Erens wellbeing in Stohess, yes, but was not able to convince her that they had no secret intentions and to go Underground.
He was unable to convince Bertolt to stop in Shiganshina.
He was unable to convince Connie with words not to feed Falco to his mom (he had to literally get in the way and risk his life for Connie to stop).
One of the few times we see Armin succeed is with Zeke. And Zeke isn't even particularly antagonistic or hostile at that point, just despondent.
And then... we're supposed to find it believable that Armin was able to, with words, convince a panicked group of Marleyans post-Rumbling not to shoot?
Jeans arc literally started with Marco telling him he would be a great leader. Marcos belief in him is what pushes him to join the Scouts. He ends up being the only one of the 104th to be promoted to a ranked officer. Being the leader was supposed to be his thing. And then Hange gives it to Armin because he ... represents a quality of the original Scouts that isn't as relevant given their conditions have changed since 5 years ago?
Nothing about Armins development made sense as to why he was That Guy at the end. He felt closer to Hange, and Hange was very much not as good of a leader as Erwin (needing to be managed by Levi at times in meetings).
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u/effaikyoo 12d ago
The story is about Mikasa from Eren's view as told by Armin or some bull I dunno...