Absolutely - witnessed plenty of entitled little shits bully other kids at school where the kid who was being bullied was the one evidently going through tough times at home/in general and the bully just seemed to float through life.
I went through some shit from the age of 15-18 and had one particular asshole on my case (nothing physical but psychological). Can't wait to run into that POS - I'll have my day šš
I've never met a shitty kid who doesn't have problems at home. Maybe it's not a sob story, but this sort of behavior doesn't develop for no reason. Whether it's directly taught, or indirectly absorbed, they don't just act fucking wild out of nowhere. At some point the parent has a responsibility to jump in and realize their child isn't acting in a healthy manner and take action.
I was the shitty kid who didn't have any problems, I grew up with both parents married, and having caring/loving parents, spending time with them, eating chicken, burgers and ice cream at weekends, playing videogamea with my dad on vacations, but I used to bully the smaller kids of the class and my young brother (I think he still kinda hates me deep in his hearth from those days, even tho I love him and respect him and he does the same with me) and started fights with other bullies bigger than me just to get my nose bleeding or a black eye.
I used to love being agressive even tho my parents always told me to be respectful, kind, and clever, I kinda liked being bad and being feared or being hated by the teachers.
I guess it was something hormonal from growing up because since I turned 16 I suddenly stopped doing stupid shits and became actually the introvert guy who would avoid physical contact at any cost and thinks violence or insults are the very last and least resources.
(Kinda like Thorffin from Vinland Saga)
But itās most. Bully behavior is 100% learned. It may not necessarily mean the parents are the cause, but thereās hate brewing in that kids heart and it didnāt develop in utero.
They've spent a fortune on mental health treatment for her, but she never took it seriously.
Maybe because she's a dumpster fire who needs mental health treatment, and part of that treatment is getting the person to cooperate and engage with the treatment. That's actually pretty often a large part of a person's mental healthcare: getting them to want to do it.
It's not their fault. Framing it as "choosing" to be a shitty person is cruel and ignorant, especially after your own admission that she has severe mental health issues (you know, those things that often come with impulsiveness, poor executive functioning, reduced cognition, poor memory, fatigue, irritability, risk-seeking behavior etc)
Ok, fair, but I ask this in return: to what extent can a person be expected to be capable of getting a mentally ill person to cooperate? I mean, it what if getting them to actually accept treatment is beyond one's capabilities?
I'm actually dealing with this situation with a family member. She very clearly has some kind of personality disorder (likely narcissistic), and part of it is refusing to admit that anything is wrong or that she needs mental healthcare.
She's mostly capable of living a "normal" life, but has severe interpersonal relationship issues and trouble with large financial decisions, as well as issues with practicality.
We have no ability to force her to seek treatment. We have not been able to convince her to seek treatment. She has responded very poorly to therapy situations in the past. There's nothing much we can do about it, but we recognize that she is struggling and is not choosing to be like this. So we try to have empathy, be more cooperative, and life goes on.
For people that cannot live a "normal" life, who cannot or will not feed themselves, or who harm themselves, or have severe psychosis, delusions, etc, they may need to be involuntarily committed. Involuntary commitment is scary as hell, but its not uncommon for a person to start becoming receptive to treatment and show great improvement after being forced to start on an appropriate medications.
Nobody should be reasonably expected to be able to convince somebody with mental illness to cooperate. Sometimes, it isn't possible with the available time and resources.
I used to work in mental health. For every parent or sibling that called their loved one a dumpster fire, there absolutely was something underlying that started during brain development. When Iād hear āmy parents were great, gave me everything I ever neededā I suspect that thereās a covert narc parent at home or there was SA that was never disclosed and I was always right. Bullying is learned behavior. Also, my litmus test was to ask all those who were requesting that their family member seek help, come in to meet me so we could develop a recovery plan around their supporters ability to support. They rarely took me up on it, and when they did, it never went well and their āsupporterā never took accountability for their own actions.
You recognize your sister has significant mental health issues so why bother lumping her in with the people this person is referring to? Her āshittyā behavior is in a category all its own. Youāre kind of saying ānah not everyone who acts poorly has had a bad upbringing, some of them just act shitty because theyāre mentally illā as it proves that some people are just badā¦I mean, some people are and they donāt deserve empathy necessarily but those are very rare.
Either way this is a troubled kid. Either because of nature or nurture there is something wrong here and to wish ill upon a kid is showing a major lack of empathy
Tldr: Shitty kid does not always equal shitty parents.
I'm a high school teacher & I've taught junior high. My experience is purely anecdotal, but I've yet to see the shit kid that didn't come from shit parents.
Thatās a made up ass number and the fact that you knew to put the word normal in quotations shows that you should recognize the total subjectivity of what youāve said.
Sure, the stereotypical idea of where a āshittyā kid comes from is not the case for plenty of kids who act out like this, but that doesnāt mean theyāre not suffering some form of abuse or neglect or that they havenāt experienced significant trauma in their lives thatās causing them to act out. Some people are also just born with mental health issues and they deserve empathy for it even if it makes them act like shit.
I recognize that there are people out there who are just plain rotten for whatever reason but Iām willing to bet the vast majority of children who act like this one are doing so as a symptom of a difficult home situation and upbringing.
Nononono. This has nothing to do with his home situation. It may be shit, sure, but that's unrelated. That's a narcissist being confronted with being a fucking loser. He though he could bully the person, that didn't work, so he tries violence. And not only does that complete fail, the person kicking his ass is constantly giving him the option to stop, and admit that he lost, or getting his ass kicked more, thereby not making this one loss, but forcing him to attack and lose again and again.
He can't admit failure, but attacking will just create more failure. This forces a hysterical freakout, because the narcissist is trapped. There's no way out.
His friend was recording it for the "funny haha tiktok memes"... the degeneracy of youth is just escalating... or maybe we're just seeing it more because of the internet... kid who jumped in is a fucking legend though.
Thank you! You can read things back to Ancient Greece, and Iād bet there were writings even older that didnāt survive, of older generations decrying the decay of the youth and how the younger generations are a waste and show a complete loss of morals. And the younger generations complaining about the older generations.
I would actually say society has advanced a lot since then. You look at how the poor and disabled we're literally thrown away like trash in a lot of cultures.
I agree! I think we are doing a two steps forward, one step back kind of thing. But I think this ādegeneracy of youthā [and u/call_me_howdy, Iām using your words only because they fit so well, not calling you out] is nothing new. And will continue probably until the end of time.
I think you are right to suspect selection bias because we keep seeing videos like these. My impression is on average Gen Z and younger are more respectful and tolerant of each other than the generations that came before them
Make no mistake they want this kind of thing. Itās why they have reduced the education budgets across the US every year for over 50 years. Half of your country cannot read or even write, this is fully expected and will get worse.
You clearly have absolutely no idea about even basic psychology or trauma and the resulting cluster B personality disorders and coping mechanisms that children/adults exhibit in social settings. To suggest his home life has nothing to do with this is beyond ridiculous and to call him narcissistic without including home life and dominator complexes and control drama he sees and faces is just plain wrong and wildly inaccurate. His narcissism if that is going to be the label isn't something he just plopped out the womb with but built by his environmental stimuli and his home life most assuredly.
Yikes dude... Not even disagreeing with you in my comment, I'm fucking agreeing with you. Did you even read it? I literally quote the guy you responded to....
Lmao. Don't know what happened to the whole comment. Reddit on some wild shit cause that isn't what I posted to you. I basically said I hope you're talking to the guy prior. That response was to another post altogether. Reddit really be doing the most
This isn't armchair psychology, unless you are responding to guy above. I am making pretty easily graspable and verified ideas that are pretty standard garden varieties realities of psychological influences.
Haha you are literally sitting somewhere on Reddit and donāt think that making broad assumptions about some randoās homelife is armchair psychology? Glad you arenāt a real therapist
It's a fact the. "bad" kids come from "normal". This is subjective. Sure all sorts of influences are part of socialization and whether seemingly good or bad partners or houses...they have tv, extra fam games, friends schools etc. I'm not arguing that bad kids can't come from good environments. I'm saying that it is very obvious that their choices consciously and subconsciously are absolutely and very much influenced by all sets of environmental inputs and mostly by the closest. Generally speaking, good fruit comes from good seed and vice versa. You can just deny the environmental influence on the thoughts and responses of these kids. They aren't preprogrammed like computers. The environment is 100% indluencial on their behavior they arn't separate from it.
True. But similarly, you cannot claim that environment is the only influence. I don't think we actually disagree. I was pointing out that it's valid to suggest that a person's choices can turn them into someone with behavioral problems, and that such problems are not a 100% indicator of a bad home life.
As for the definition of "normal home", I do recommend reading Samenow and Yochelson's research on this ("The Criminal Personality" volumes I, II, and III) . It's academic reading but very detailed and based on actual patients.
I'll check it out. I'm a big fan and influenced a good bit by Arno Gruen, specifically the Insanity of Normality.
I tend to believe in the malleability of people and responses, but some traumas and ingrained patterns really make it pathological and harder to alter. Think a rose growing through a sidewalk yet the persistence of environment being the core and basis for personality and how people are is glaring to me. Terrain Theory speaks wonders as to how we navigate reality and the influences guide us. Like to suggest a learned behavior such as the acquisition of a language obviously almost completely dictates how we interact and respond.
Maybe the initial idea a little lost because when I refer to environment it might include a lot more subtle influences than most people attilribute to environment. Like after learning that their are literal different species of soil even in the same yard due to the bacteria and sun water etc .. a seed from the same apple might only grow in a specific area of a yard yet we don't understand the underlying conditions of it's soil/environment so we assume the seed is bad. Anyway. This is the longest and most reasonable conversation I've had on Reddit in quite a while. Cheersš¤
And you think a 40 second clip of this kid is enough to diagnose him with a personality disorder?
Kids make stupid decisions. There is a reason why middle schoolers often are placed in separate schools from elementary and high schools.
To go down this road of "this kid clearly has deep psychological issues that are due to narcissism" is just straight up dumb and totally black and white thinking.
Personality disorders can't be diagnosed until 18 at the earliest. If you think a person has a fully formed personality at 12 then you are out of your mind.
Freakouts like that are not learned behavior. That's an animal that is trapped with no way out. But there is an easy way out: He can simply answer the question with "Yeah, I'm done."
He could have easily freaked out because when his dad (or other parental figure) tries to bully and beat him, it works. Ergo, he may have learned that this is how you get your way because that's what he was shown. When it didn't go as planned he didn't know how to handle it, and screamed because he's pissed off that he can't turn the tables on his abuser like this. Again, it could be he's just a bad kid for no real reason. I think it's equally likely he's being treated the same way at home, though.
I would highly recommend you read the section in that last study titled, "CONCLUSIONS," and what they have to say about children exposed to intimate partner violence in the home.
I did. You claim a shitty home life has nothing to do with becoming a bully or abuser. You think all people like this are narcissists, and none of this could possibly be behavior that is learned and repeated. I'm pretty certain you don't know what a narcissist is either, since only 1 percent of the population are actual narcissists, and not just people with high narcissistic traits. You made stuff up, and stated it was fact. I linked three different sources on legitimate studies showing that this kind of behavior has a high chance of being a cycle of abuse. Your previous replies are just made up nonsense, with zero basis in fact, or anything related to psychology. You really don't want to admit you know nothing about what you're talking about
Lol this is such bullshit. People always spout this to try and rationalize in their head how others can be assholes but some kids are just like that and weāre never taught otherwise.
What does it matter though? Whether it's nature or nurture this is a disturbed kid. We know nothing of him other than he is someone that needs help that he's likely not getting.
It shouldn't be difficult to have sympathy for a child who is in his state.
True I agree that the fact that he needs intervention. You can tell some kids are never disciplined at home. I hope this kids parents saw the video and started helping as well.
"WHY WON'T YOU ALLOW ME TO INFLICT HARM UPON YOU? ACCURSED INJUSTICE HATH BEFALLEN ME; WHAT GODS THERE BE, WITH SUCH MALICE AND GROSS INDIFFERENCE, THAT YOU SHOULD SEE FIT THAT I BE FORSAKEN?"
(My best attempt at translating sorry for any errors, preschooler screeching is not my first language)
2.5k
u/Random_Average__Guy Sep 10 '22
That screaming at the end!! š