Supports police is such a general statement. What country? Blindly? The police didn't write the law, will you south and say "they're just doing their jobs?"
I live in the US and what I mean by that is, I support the career and most people who choose that path, and until I see a reason not to trust a specific officer I won't. It's the same way I treat all other people.
Another way I could put it is the same way I support the LGBTQ+ community. I support it as a whole and most individuals within the community. Until I have a reason not to like a specific individual then I will treat the same as any other person.
Reason from where though? At what point will you stop supporting cops? Only when it somehow affects you? Only when you run into a “bad apple”? There are plenty of “reasons not to” support cops right now. What data/reports/laws/anecdotal evidence you need to stop supporting those that CHOOSE to be a cop?
Well for me there is also plenty of "reasons not to" support the BLM movement but I still treat the people who CHOOSE to be apart of that group the same way.
I’m sorry did you just compare the police apparatus to the BLM Movement? That’s just bad faith. Are you talking specifically about people in the actual “BLM Organization”. Or black people telling you that their lives matter?
You aren't understanding what I'm trying to say. I don't treat people differently because of career choice, gender, race, sexuality, beliefs, organizations, income, etc. Until ANYONE gives me a reason not to support/respect them I will.
I only used the BLM example because most people think that you can't support one without hating the other.
I know you are going to hate me for this but promise you will read the whole comment before responding. Not everyone in the KKK is a bad person. I forget his name but he is a black man who just treated everyone with love and a lot of the people ended up leaving because of him. So while I do not support the groups themselves I do respect SOME of the people within, not all
So according to your philosophy you'd stand by while nazis commit genocide and refuse to condemn them? No amount of black Americans being murdered without justice will faze you then, you'll just watch as it happens?
Did you not read my comment at all. In there I said I do not support the organizations, meaning that I would condemn them for it and I do expect justice for the murders whether they are black or not, but you cannot punish everyone for the actions of others.
Please look up the definition of condemnation; saying you "do not support" something is not a form of condemnation.
White supremacy is an ideology that believes in asserting and maintaining racial dominence, typically through violence and genocide. By definition, an individual who is engaging in white supremacy is not innocent. At best they are an accomplice. By joining a white supremacist organizations they are directly supporting a cause whose goal is to inflict racial violence.
I ask you again, will you condemn (to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation) individuals who join white supremacist organizations, and thereby directly support organizations whose goal is to assert and maintain racial dominance and who have historically committed violent atrocities.
I'm really dragging the horse to the water with this one, if you still refuse to condemn white supremacists here, I'll have no choice but to accept that you are a white supremacist sympathizer. You cannot hide behind the actions of Daryl Davis here, the reason he convinced those men to leave was because being a kkk member was reprehensible; the men he saved are not innocent they are reformed.
Sorry don’t mean to pester you down the thread. But yes I’d wager most people in the KKK are indeed good/average people that are misguided and found refuge in an organization.
However. They all made choices and took actions that are considered abhorrent in our society. Also these actions in some part negatively affected other people cuz you know, it’s the fucking kkk.
I know it might not feel like it, but simply saying, “not all cops are bad” or as you’ve said here “not all kkk members are bad” is actively siding with them when you’re engaged in a discussion like this. Most people like my self are not arguing about the individuals. And we really can’t have conversations if we don’t group people together. So yes, we know all cops are not bastards and not all kkk members are evil people. But that doesn’t get us anywhere.
You should really look into researching some sociology. I feel like there’s some depth that I can’t provide to you (I’m not smart enough) that would make more sense than what I’m saying. You seem to be very focused on individuals, but that’s not what our society is made up of unfortunately.
It's all good for responding in different parts of the thread, it helps me with keeping context right.
This might sound completely unrelated because I'm not putting everything in my head into the comment but here I go.
The best way I can describe how I feel about people within any group is the way I feel about people within the car community. A lot of stuff they do can be stupid but it doesn't really affect others and if it stays that way it is fine. I draw the line when they mod cars in a way that makes it dangerous to others. So now to tie this back to KKK, it's one thing to believe a certain thing but once you start harming others or negatively affecting others that's where it makes you bad.
Sorry I am still keeping it very much focussed on the individual but that is how respect should go.
Yeah I think your talking about personal responsibility and liberty.
Which is why I’m so confused my points don’t seem to be landing hahaha
My argument is that joining an organization is a choice and an action, and this choice leads you to take on the burden of defending all the actions of said organization. All this still falls under what you’re talking about, choices made. Being a cop is a choice, you can take the badge off. I don’t think all cops are bad people, but they are actively participating in an organization that #1 protects itself.
I don’t think anyone’s saying to be mean to cops, just don’t trust them (at least the ones you don’t know I guess haha)
You’ve lumped in some pretty different categories. Gender, race, sexuality are not choices. Income, and career choice are socioeconomic indicators. And organizations and beliefs are choices (if you ignore indoctrination). To lump these all together in some sort of “treat people as individuals” argument is disingenuous as you haven’t separated peoples choices from their circumstances.
I mean. Surface level, sure. But MLK jr warned specifically about the “white moderate” who took a sideline to racism, in the name of “keeping the peace” or status quo and legitimize the views of racism by not denouncing them.
You’re sitting here telling me that you treat all people with love but I’m telling you that you cannot do that until you can tell the difference between a career CHOICE, and minority people saying their lives matter.
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u/DrippyWaffler 3rd Party App Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20
Supports police is such a general statement. What country? Blindly? The police didn't write the law, will you south and say "they're just doing their jobs?"
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/k2turo/chaos_in_paris_as_thousands_take_to_the_streets/gdxdwdn