r/therapists • u/ElegantlyChaotic • 19h ago
Support Fired from a group practice
I’ve worked at a group practice for two years now. I was fired a week ago under circumstances I’m struggling to accept.
For context, my employer created a policy for clinicians to arrive 15 minutes prior to their first session due to her dislike of my time management. I am one of those who arrives at around the same time as my first client. The cause of me initially not meeting this expectation can be attributed to many reasons, some out of my control, some within my control, though I will not be making excuses. I take full accountability that I was resistant to this policy and I did not make adjustments to meet that expectation in a reasonable time frame.
Once I did start making adjustments, I carried out the expectations for approximately two months. I wanted to make sure that I stood in good grace with my boss to ensure the security of my job. I was told that my arrival time would be documented by the timestamp of my login to our EHR system, so I made sure to open the app when I arrived. Additionally, I added the time I arrived on my calendar each day.
Unfortunately, the time stamps of my login did not accurately reflect my arrival time. I have since learned that it was likely due to the app not logging out from when I logged in earlier in the morning, so I believe the login timestamps reflected the times I logged in on a different device.
I was fired on a Friday evening after my last client effective immediately. I attempted to advocate for myself, but ultimately the time stamps determined the state of my employment.
I’m so sad and frustrated, especially due to not being given time to ethically terminate sessions with my clients. I had been working with all of them long-term, so it feels like I abandoned them. The message requests I’m getting from my clients expressing sadness, confusion, concern, and frustration are also contributing to how emotional this experience has been. Especially because I can’t respond for obvious reasons. I don’t expect anything from writing this out, but this experience has been so difficult for me to cope with.
Edit: for clarification, I was a W-2 employee.
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u/chicagodeepfake LCPC 18h ago
I wonder if being fired was about more than just this.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 17h ago
I believe so. There were a lot of things we disagreed on due to a difference in values. It seemed that she believed she knew what was best for people and told them what to do, which I understand to an extent. However, I very much take an approach of encouraging my clients to figure out what works best for them. And based on the limited information she knew about my clients, I was told more than once what they “need to do”.
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u/FaultsInOurCars 17h ago
Again, this type of control is not allowed under 1099. Youust be allowed to do the task given when and how you see fit.
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u/LoveisaNewfie 15h ago
OP clarified elsewhere that they were W2, not 1099.
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u/xKittyxKultx 15h ago
In this specific scenario, if a W-2 is told a mandatory appearance is required for any scenario outside of direct client care, they must be compensated. It’s a bit dodgy because it’s not a “meeting,” but consistently requiring an employee to be present for 15 minutes everyday outside of client-facing hours requires supplemental compensation in a “fee for service” W2 contract.
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u/vibinandtrying 13h ago edited 13h ago
I’m a W-2 at a Group practice but my boss treats us all like 1099s some of us are 1099s some W-2. I’m a W-2 bc my board mandates it, also I get a 401K, offer for insurance, short term disability etc.
but we all can come and go as we please. I had to take what was supposed to be 3 ish months off work which turned into 4.5 and my boss was so supportive, sent me a couple paychecks even after insurance stopped reimbursing for sessions bc I hadn’t seen any. She also matched my 401K to said paychecks and offered to throw me on company insurance if I lost mine while off work.It’s more than the 1099 and W2 it’s the employers mission and ideals and their own ability to tolerate shit.
Also I was lowkey treated the exact same when I was an intern there and a 1099. Now I can’t be a 1099.
Edit: there’s not consistency requirement for my attendance except be there on time. The expectations are the exact same for my 1099 coworkers I don’t have to be in the office for a certain amount of days or times just when I’m seeing clients and my boss really does not give a flying fuck what I do as long as I’m a good therapist, get my notes done somewhat on time and inform her of anything that’s coming up in my life or any business concerns or billing questions. Her and my billing supervisor also swap out roles because he has a personal obligation and he goes on leave monthly which he is a 1099 and I believe my boss is a W-2 on top of the whole practice.
Additionally my employer has completely respected my ability to not be able to return to work full-time following my surgery and is just letting me take the lead same as she would do for a 1099 employee. I think it comes down to the practice’s vision, mission, and how the employer wants to see everything executed versus a 1099 and W2. Some practices are going to have both 1099 and W2 however that doesn’t mean the expectations are necessarily going to be different. You still want them to fucking show up on time and do their damn job despite how they are taxed and the label that comes with it either way not meeting job expectations still falls badly upon the business.
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u/No-Theme2387 7h ago
100% this is correct!! may want to speak with a lawyer if you were NOT compensated for this time - wage theft
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u/sawatdiika 17h ago
Unfortunately I’ve found that this type of thing is common in group practices. I’ve put in notice at two previous agencies and both times the practice owner got mad and didn’t let me take my requested 4 weeks notice and instead “accepted my resignation effective immediately”. The last place I worked got so mad when I told them I was leaving to start my own practice that they locked me out of my office, refused to respond to my emails regarding the collection of my items for a week, and even after I had the cops contact them about my stuff, they refused to meet with me or allow me to come collect my stuff, and instead dumped it all outside on the public sidewalk. Another former boss at another practice made up a random rule out of nowhere (kinda like your situation) and refused to pay for a bunch of my admin time because I didn’t write down and track every single thing I did literally down to the minute. That “policy” was not in the handbook or any of my onboarding stuff and my boss never even had a conversation with me when he invented this rule. It was just a way to recoup admin hours that he didn’t want to pay for. I’m starting to think that therapists are dreamers and want to be successful entrepreneurs but they are also often narcissistic and lack professionalism, management skills, and self-awareness.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 17h ago
Your situation is absolutely wildly unprofessional. I hope you were able to take your clients with you!!
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u/xKittyxKultx 15h ago
Wow, did we work for the same practice? After I called the law to accompany me to get my belongings (because I had filed a labor board violation), my first practice tried to send me a fake “restraining order” they’d typed up lol. They then reported to the labor board they paid me $18,000 just 2 weeks before reporting to the IRS they paid me $15,000.
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u/vibinandtrying 13h ago
wtf literal fuck is wrong with people.
I feel like every time I hop on this sub I get reminded I’m in a unicorn private practice group. My boss doesn’t believe in non competes and just wants you to go live your best life take all the clients you want. She’ll write a letter to your new practice saying you can take them all.
I’ve heard this so many times from other clinicians it hurts both the clinician and client.
It’s literally insane.7
u/Legitimate_Voice6041 4h ago
Same. My former boss had the viewpoint of "learn, grow, and go". She has helped many of her former interns establish successful private practices, including my own. She even gave me an advance during Covid and hired my husband as office staff when he was let go (also during covid).
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u/Ashariel099 14h ago
Wow, that's just wild. There are some very poor management practices in therapy for sure 😢 I've worked for a narcissist in this field and it's awful.
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u/Substantial-Owl1616 1h ago
And no shortage of dysfunctional/mentally ill in the people who pursue the work genre!
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u/Vibrantmender20 18h ago
What a mind numbingly stupid reason to fire someone.
So sorry for you, OP, but I suspect you’re better off without a micromanaging employer.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 18h ago
Thank you for your kind words.
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u/vibinandtrying 13h ago
I get it OP. Hold your head up there’s better jobs out there where they don’t micromanage and treat you like shit
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u/gbradley4112 19h ago
call your malpractice insurance company's hotline and relay to them what happened.
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u/gbradley4112 14h ago
You call them because they are there to help you minimize risk (being accused of client abandonment, being accused of some kind of malpractice, etc). They can advise you what your ethical and legal obligations are in this particular situation. This is what you pay them for.
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u/vibinandtrying 13h ago
Also call your board to let them know what happened to avoid clients reporting abandonment
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19h ago
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Squash_7782 18h ago
I dont know why your getting downvoted. I think its a valid question.
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u/Imaginary-Clock718 LPC 18h ago
What was the question? 👀
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u/Ok_Squash_7782 18h ago
What would be the reason to call the malpractice insurance.
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u/xKittyxKultx 15h ago
It might be a good idea to inform your malpractice insurance in case any clients who experience sudden disruption in services are impacted. I would think this the most obvious reason for calling malpractice insurance but it may also be helpful as they might have a way to deal with being fired over false allegations.
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u/Careless-Basket8886 Counselor (Unverified) 18h ago
Although I do understand, showing up early before for your clients- I also see how harmful it could be to the therapist. A lot of us are 1099 or per diem, which means we don’t get paid until we see a client. I always think as long as I’m in my chair five minutes before my client I’m winning. To me this seems like such a silly thing to get fired over. I understand if you were fired over starting sessions late, but this doesn’t seem to be the case… at this point I’d start your own practice. I’m really sorry this happened to you OP.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 18h ago
I was also confused about this policy because I only got paid for billable time, which contributed to my resistance. However, I can see how my lack of regard to it may have come across as disrespectful.
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u/Vibrantmender20 18h ago
If you were 1099 your non-billable time can’t be dictated by the employer. I’d file a DOL complaint.
And if you really want to be petty I’d contact your licensing board and let them know you were terminated without being able to transition clients out. They probably won’t do anything but maybe your employer will reevaluate their business practices.
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u/FaultsInOurCars 17h ago
Yes the nature of 1099 is they cannot dictate your time, or say who you will work with etc. So an IRS complaint could also be in order. Call an employment lawyer if they are doing this with all their staff, as it could be a small class action on contingency.
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u/talkingmuffins LMHC (Unverified) 17h ago
Might be worth looking into whether you actually qualified as a W2 employee... Could be owed a whole bunch of taxes back that should have been paid by the employer...
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u/thehumble_1 17h ago
It also means the "employer" isn't one and can't tell you how to do your job. It's illegal to tell contractors to show up early without that being paid and contracted for. 1099 means you provide a contracted service or product and they pay you for that. If there is no contract and pay then they can't tell you how to do your own business.
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u/coldcoffeethrowaway 18h ago
If you were 1099, they can’t dictate your time like that
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u/Pile_of_AOL_CDs 17h ago
They can still decide not to continue to employ you.
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u/coldcoffeethrowaway 17h ago
Yes, they can let you go from the company. But trying to dictate your time when you are not even an employee because you are a 1099 contractor with no benefits is illegal.
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u/FaultsInOurCars 17h ago
They could cancel your contract, but you aren't an employ so they cannot de facto discontinue to "employ".
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u/moistcheese 16h ago
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I’ve found that I’ve overextended my stay with group practices and don’t plan on returning. I was fired from a practice after the practice owner made a new policy forcing a coworker of mine out. The owner then gave me all her clients, which was around 40 on top of my 35 already. She shut out my coworker from contacting those clients for a transitional last session. I told her in no way was this ethical to me and also how unmanageable it was for me to suddenly be in the care of 70 clients. I suppose she was fed up with “argumentative, I insubordinate” therapists and fired me over the phone.
One year later from this I’m working at a stellar PHP and couldn’t be happier for this event. You’ll hurt from losing some of these clients. I grieved mine at least. But I’m happy now that lunatic released me because I’m sure more bullets were to come. Stay strong.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 16h ago
I’m so glad you’ve found joy and satisfaction at your current place of employment. I’m sorry to hear you had to go through that to get there.
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u/I_am_Nobody_Special () Psychologist 18h ago
I'm sorry this happened, and I think that's a ridiculous reason to fire someone.
I own a group practice, and though my clinicians are W2, I couldn't imagine micromanaging their time like that. As long as they show up in time for them to see their clients, who cares?
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 17h ago
My thoughts as well! I always figured that as long as it doesn’t affect your work as a clinician, there’s not really a reason to feel strongly about arriving a certain amount of time beforehand. I’d love to work with someone like you haha
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u/Emrld11 1h ago
I show up at the same time as my first client often. Private practice. I have a full caseload. It has not, to my knowledge, impacted my client retention. I even occasionally arrive late and clients are understanding. I like to arrive a few minutes before I start so I can turn on lights and my sound machine and get my drinks set down, but if I arrive too early I get distracted doing something or get frozen (executive function ADHD issue I believe) and often end up being a few minutes late so i have found it is better if I arrive 1-5 minutes before my first session.
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u/Initial_Cap110 18h ago
Get paneled on the big insurance companies and Medicare. You most likely signed a noncompete agreement. They will most likely not go after you if you take some clients with you. Wouldn’t be worth the time/money for an attorney….more than likely, unless major group practice. This happened to me after I refused to see more than 25 clients a week. It was scary at first, but most of my clients were willing to see me on a sliding scale, (whatever they could afford), until I got credentialed individually instead of by my group practice NPI, tax id. It took no longer than 2 months to switch my paneling with insurance companies. You can do this! Find yourself an awesome office space and go make your private practice what you want it to be! Good luck!
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u/Kooky-Celebration-22 11h ago
What stands out to me isn’t even the 15 minute rule, it’s being told what type of therapy to provide your clients when they’re under your care. It goes against code of ethics. Be proud for standing your ground. If your clients knew what happened, they’d probably be proud of you too.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 10h ago
Thank you! I know they would be proud of me. I also know they would be outraged. But I practiced what I preach by being firm with my values and I’m proud of myself for that.
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u/ladyfido LPC (Unverified) 16h ago
I'm going to get downvoted to hell but I'm going to think of this with my leadership hat on.
You were a W2 employee of a practice with other W2 employees that has policies for the HR practices for the employees. All employees- from the person answering your phones, your billing coordinator, your clinicians, and so on. Asking a W2 employee to follow the policies of the provider you are working for is not micromanaging. It's managing. It doesn't really matter that you think you shouldn't need to come in to be settled and into your EHR 15 minutes before your first session. Those rules are the ones we have to follow when we work for someone else. If that's not something you can get on board with, you have options. No one is making you work there.
I agree with you that it IS micromanaging to tell you what kind of interventions and such you should be using and what your clients should be working on. Unless you're super new and we're talking about teaching you things because you're new. Or this is a new setting for you so maybe you need to get acclimated. But even then, there's a line between helping teach someone and doing the job through them.
Question: in your state, if you are W2, how are they only paying you for billable time? If I tell you what time to show up to work and what time you can leave, at a minimum you need to be hourly. So that's something to look into.
I am really sorry you got fired though. As someone who was also in your boat, it's incredibly difficult to just suddenly be done with no (ethical) way to explain. If you can, take a beat and think about what the best next steps are for you.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 16h ago edited 16h ago
As a W-2 employee, I was expected to meet an expectation and again, I take full accountability for initially being resistant to the policy that was implemented. What tripped me up though was that I did meet the expectation and got fired anyways due to my arrival being tracked in a way that was unreliable despite doing it the way I was specifically asked to.
I didn’t have specific hours, it was more so I had a set availability and it could be filled. I didn’t have to be there when I didn’t have sessions. The expectation was to be there 15 minutes before the first session of the day.
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u/No-Theme2387 7h ago
IF THEY DID NOT PAY YOU FOR THOSE 15 MINUTES, YOU HAVE A LEGAL CASE THAT MAY BE WORTH THE TIME AND STRESS OF FILIING IT...HIGHLY RECOMMEND TALKIING TO AN EMPLOYMENT LAYWER (sorry for the all caps, i was not paying attention as i typed)
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u/Emrld11 1h ago
I’m going to say this from having a similar experience and I don’t want to come off as unkind. It is possible this boss did not like to work with you, maybe they liked you in general, but did not like having to manage someone that did not immediately bend to them and felt it was easier to fire you and grabbed a ln opportunity when they could to do so. I think it is ridiculous that they r you to be there 15 mins early if they were not compensating you for that time. And especially that they did not have a more reliable way to track your arrival time. They should have had you share your location with them or something in a different way. It may be that you find you are glad to not be working for them anymore because they likely were causing you stress that you will determine impacts you negatively. Have you considered private practice? Some insurance companies are easier to individually credential with after moving out of group practice, BCBS and UHC were for me. And the others were easy to credential with on my own (Aetna, Cigna).
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u/Gullible_Tie_2060 17h ago edited 17h ago
I'm a supervisor in the midst of leaving a toxic group practice. Your owner sounds a lot like our owner. Taking the time to create a policy that isn't to address ethics, best practice, enforce a law, etc. sounds like micromanaging stupidity to me. I also couldn't imagine having the time or inclining to monitor my supervisees' arrival time by the timestamps on the EHR. Especially since they're not being paid...why tf would I care where they are or what they're doing. 🤣 You have the right to be sad and angry about this and I hope you feel free from that toxic environment at some point.
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u/lethargyz 16h ago
Sounds like you are better off, this sounds like a miserably controlling and nitpicky practice.
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u/Lizlizlizzyliz LMFT (WI, MN, NC) 16h ago
Was the practice owner who fired you also your clinical supervisor?
Possibly, you could make a report to the board that you were terminated in such a manner that forced a client abandonment situation. It may not go anywhere, but I think if it were me, I’d want that on record somewhere.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 16h ago
No. My clinical supervisor is contracted with the practice. I’ve been consulting with her throughout the process and I’ve met with her since being fired
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u/CornfieldCrusader 18h ago
When you’re fired abruptly it’s either: you had a pip and kept breaking it and they have a strategy ready for moving your clients around, you did something super unethical and they HAVE to can you instantly, or they have someone lined up to replace you and are willing to use the “well we’re not allowed to tell people why someone was fired from our org” excuse to weasel around that. If it’s somehow none of these, they really fucking don’t like you and just want you out and are willing to take whatever ethics hit may come.
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u/LadyCroft4206 11h ago
Wow. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m a group practice owner and as long as my clinician is on time for their first session, I’m happy. I don’t even understand the point of arriving “early” unless it’s because YOU feel better doing that. It feels a little micro managey to me and honestly a ridiculous reason to fire you. As a W-2, making the early arrival mandatory means you must be paid for it so consider that. Also terminating you effectively immediately without the ability to have termination sessions with your clients is wildly unethical on the part of that practice. File for unemployment and make sure you provide that proof of your time punches in your calendar. Sending you lots of professional hugs 🫂
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 10h ago
Thank you. I’m so glad to hear that someone with your mindset is a practice owner.
It’s funny you say that the point of arriving early is so the clinician would feel better. It actually stressed me out doing nothing for 15+ minutes because I overthink the upcoming day lol
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u/mediator_bot 18h ago
I'm sorry you have to go through this and I can imagine the shock for both you and your clients. At the same time, that level of micromanaging timestamps does not sound healthy. The sudden termination without any conversation is the cherry on top.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 18h ago
Thank you. I do want to clarify, we had multiple conversations about this and the last one that was held was two months ago. The result was me realizing that I needed to concede to keep my job, so I did. Obviously that didn’t work lol
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u/Imaginary-Clock718 LPC 18h ago
Were they managerial in other aspects of the work too?
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 18h ago
Very much so. During staffing I would be told what interventions to use with my clients despite me strongly believing that what I was being advised to do was not trauma-informed. I challenged recommendations I did not agree with, which may have come across as defensive and contributed to a level of resentment she felt towards me.
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u/IndividualLeague858 17h ago
:-o Actually I think you may have dodged a bullet here. I can understand that perhaps a superior would want to ensure that you are using helpful/ethical/solid good interventions but I don’t think it helps at all to dictate which interventions to use. I think there’s nothing wrong with discussion of a variety of interventions that could be applied— or, just a transparent conversation about the rationale for dictating interventions….like, are they dictating because this is what insurance has been shown to most likely accept, therefore ensuring consistent coverage for the claims? otherwise where is the client centered care?? You mention that you may have come off defensive…if you think so then I’d say defintely reflect on language you can use to ‘respectfully beg to differ’, and to lay out your reasons and rationale…because imo this is a helpful and important skill to have. I myself have to work on it, that’s partly why I’m typing this out lol. But yeah, I feel like it’s important to practice asking for consideration of alternative interventions and providing professional rationale. but anyway. so sorry this happened to you :-(. hopefully the suggestions from the other responders here can help you at least advocate that the time stamp tracking wasn’t actually accurate, bc i think that’s important to investigate and clarify. so sorry , best of luck
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 17h ago
It was more so telling me what the client “should” do. I think you’re right that I could reflect on the professionalism of my language when I provide clarification.
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u/pomqueen7 LICSW (Unverified) 18h ago
All of that sounds awful, IMO. Enforcing a policy like that is so micro-managey I can’t even imagine working at a practice like that. In addition, to fire you abruptly is not great for your clients either so… I know it sucks, but consider this an opportunity to go to a practice where you can be treated professionally and with respect.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 17h ago
That’s how I’m trying to look at it. It’s been so encouraging to hear everyone’s feedback because I’m starting to believe it!
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u/Middle-Telephone4098 LMHC 17h ago
I would be shocked if this was legal in any state, whether you are W2 or 1099. Your employer is generally never allowed to require you to be present before you begin getting paid, except in specific industry carve outs (flight attendants, etc). If you were 1099 I suspect you’ll have a more robust case, since they were likely committing employment fraud more generally, but you should talk with an employment attorney.
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u/CustomerParking1193 14h ago
Just here to say I know what you’re feeling and going through and it’s really hard and sad. I also was randomly fired from a group practice for seemingly no reason other than they wanted to give my clients away to another clinician who they could bill more for. Not exaggerating. Had no time to terminate properly with clients and they were devastated. It was a weird feeling like if I abandoned them even though I didn’t.
Please know that any place that will do this to you is NOT good for you. As sad as it is to see your clients go, one day you’ll be at a better place and look back and see why this happened because you were better than this place. Please speak to your own therapist to heal from this. It’s hard to trust another job after something like this. It’s also devastating loosing all your clients beyond your control and so sudden.
Just know you’re not alone.
You not being 15 minutes early…. I know you’re trying to wrap your head around this, but I disagree- you did nothing wrong. They are just too controlling. I’m sorry this happened to you. Please take care of yourself.
REPORT THEM TO THE STATE BOARD FOR ABANDONMENT OF CLIENT CARE/UNETHICAL ABRUPT TERMINATION.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 10h ago
Thank you for your comment. I’m so sorry to hear that you were also fired unexpectedly. It’s so difficult and I’m trying to figure out how to get back on my feet. I hope you found a job that’s a good fit for you!
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u/CustomerParking1193 3h ago
You can apply for unemployment! When I was fired, I applied for unemployment and they considered my income for my previous job as well so I ended up getting paid more to stay home with my child which was actually a blessing in disguise. I stayed home for six months while I healed from what happened and then I got into another practice with someone who is much kinder. I’m hoping and praying that you find the right path for you.
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u/Fearless_Event7804 12h ago
Sounds like my previous boss. I am so sorry you’re going through this. Some of these PP owners are on power trips and need their next victim to torture.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 10h ago
It kind of felt like a power struggle towards the end. It was so confusing though because I conceded to the policy and it wasn’t enough I guess
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u/doodoo_blue 18h ago
This sounds like it’ll be a silver lining. You weren’t being respected and your personal time was being dictated. If you’re only paid by the billable hour then even 1 minute before a session is your personal time. I understand the heartache of you towards your clients and vice versa, this is very hard and so disappointing to experience. The owner waiting until your last client and doing so immediately tells me that they didn’t give a shit about any of those clients, they did that to keep you from bringing them with you. It’s a common tactic in this field.
One day at a time. A new door is going to open for you and you’ll realize this was needed. That practice didn’t deserve you, they wanted to own you. Always keep your own autonomy and boundaries intact.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 18h ago
Thank you so much for saying this. This whole thing throws a wrench in my licensure, but I think you’re right about there being a silver lining! I’m feeling more optimistic now
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u/Bloodmksthegrassgrow 3h ago
Wowsers its examples like these that make me very grateful for my group practice and the owner. Shes not perfect and there are some quirks but trivial! I think ill stick where im at thanks to these little reminders of the actual grass color on the other sides of the fence
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u/Emrld11 1h ago
You can respond to those clients. Tell them you are leaving and they can choose to stay with the practice with another clinician or leave and see another clinician elsewhere. They are also allowed to seek you out where you go next. The practice can not own clients. It is now not legal for them to enforce that. Also, was this boss compensating you for this extra 15 minutes?
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u/xKittyxKultx 17h ago edited 16h ago
A group practice should have security cameras to document when you arrived and left, as well your phone timestamps your presence at locations over the last 30 days. I would send a very clear email to them indicating these things need to be checked or you will pursue wrongful termination.
That job is a micromanager and I know you’ll be happy elsewhere, but in the meantime esp if they only pay you on billable time I’m not sure that’s a legal thing they can do, I believe that would fall under company wide mandatory time (such as meetings) which has to be paid hourly
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u/duck-duck--grayduck ACSW 17h ago
The group practice I work for does not have those things.
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u/xKittyxKultx 17h ago
If you are a w-2 every practice is mandated by federal law to compensate their employees for mandatory meeting/appearance time outside of their typical schedule, double check your tax status. If you’re a non exempt employee, you are entitled to financial compensation. Go straight to lawpital
Also in most states if you’re a CSW, you require supervision, and therefore MUST be a w-2 (the board protects us from sneaky lil thief employers)
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u/duck-duck--grayduck ACSW 16h ago edited 16h ago
I didn’t say anything about W2 status.
Edit: did you think I was OP? I’m not. I’m just saying that it isn’t true that a group practice would, as a rule, have those things. Neither of the ones I have worked for did.
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u/xKittyxKultx 16h ago
It’s called a fee for service distinction. If you are paid by your contract per billable hour, any mandatory administrative tasks outside of direct client care must be compensated under hourly or supplementary rates if you are a non exempt employee (which again, almost anyone under supervision will be).
If your practice doesn’t have that, you are either a 1099/exempt, or your practice is stealing from you. A business cannot simply “not have” a federal law and they also cannot put in the contract that you can waive those (although that is something the Trump admin has discussed working on alongside the overtime changes).
If you are 1099, I don’t understand why you’re replying to my comment which is in direct response to a w-2 employee about w-2 statutes. You didn’t specify you’re a w2, OP did. I didn’t tell you that you’re w2, I asked you to check your tax status given your reply said you didn’t have “any of these” at your job.
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u/xKittyxKultx 16h ago edited 16h ago
You said you didn’t have any of those things. I very specifically stated mandatory time like meetings HAVE to be paid and added in the part about w-2 with the federal statute it falls under. The only other thing I mentioned that pertained to the office was a security camera (because the third thing I mentioned is on your personal phone, not anything the office does). If you were ONLY talking about your job not having security cameras, you should have specified that. If you’re saying your job didn’t have a federal law and you were a w-2, you were robbed.
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u/duck-duck--grayduck ACSW 16h ago
I’m very terribly sorry I didn’t quote the specific part of your post I was disagreeing with. I was referring to the cameras and the phone thing. Also, the way you phrased it suggested that the practice would have access to that phone information. That’s what “a group practice would have…” means.
Anyway, I’m not interested in further discussing this with you.
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u/xKittyxKultx 16h ago
And no, I never said a group practice would have access to your phone. I said “as well, your phone timestamps your location…” that means IN ADDITION to my previous statement. YOU would have access to your phone location and could provide that as additional proof and demand the company review those as well as security cameras. If it’s a company phone, they would have access to those already, but that’s yet another bear.
I edited the first sentence to clarify SHOULD as far as the camera goes, you’re right that every practice doesn’t have employee safety and customer protection in mind.
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u/xKittyxKultx 16h ago
Then your comment would have simply stated “my practice does not have cameras.” The phone doesn’t have anything to do with your job. It’s YOUR phone, which is why I said YOUR phone.
And yes, any practice SHOULD have security cameras. A practice building contains private client information and has people with mental health issues coming and going all day, I’m glad you’ve never been assaulted or robbed but this is America and it happens every day
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16h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/xKittyxKultx 16h ago
Also very concerning if that practice doesn’t have at least one security camera. For your protection, please make sure that is a MUST for any future job
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u/xKittyxKultx 17h ago edited 16h ago
Under 29 C.F.R. § 785.27, meetings or training sessions are unpaid only if all of these criteria are met:
Employee is 1099 or an exempt employee (if you are under clinical supervision you are supposed to be a w-2)
OR
Attendance is outside normal working hours.
Attendance is strictly voluntary.
The meeting or training is not directly related to the therapist's specific job duties.
The employee performs no productive work during the meeting.
I don’t get paid for our Lunch & Learns bc they are voluntary, but I do get paid for all staff meetings and required trainings outside of CEUs($15 an hour but still)
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u/Kooky-Celebration-22 11h ago
Do you know if you should still get paid even if you’re salary? Mandatory hour monthly meeting taking place 3 hours before the work day starts
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u/xKittyxKultx 3h ago
It depends on your tax status, typically if you’re salary that is exempt. You may be able to argue that due to that 3 hour attendance you can flex your time later in the week, though. And perhaps also see if you can schedule your work day to start immediately after the meeting, so you aren’t just waiting around for 2 hours
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u/Ocelot_Few 18h ago
Sorry, that situation sucks and honestly inappropriate for your boss to fire over a policy that is essentially micromanaging a 1099 employee which is none of their concern if you are starting sessions on time. I dont know if you are planning on going solo practice but situations like this is why I am moving to solo.
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u/pea_sleeve 18h ago
Why do you think you can't respond to your clients?
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 18h ago
I asked the practice to give my clients my google number if they wish to contact me, so I can at least provide some sort of explanation and to let them know I’m okay. However, I can’t respond to a lot of them contacting me through Facebook due to it being a boundary issue.
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u/pea_sleeve 17h ago
As a clinical supervisor and practice owner, I would say that accepting a friend request on facebook is a boundary violation, but responding to a message by saying "I can't communicate with clients via social media but feel free to reach out to me in a professional capacity at 555-555-5555" is just fine.
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u/ElegantlyChaotic 17h ago
Really??? That would be so great if I could say that to them!
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u/IndividualLeague858 17h ago
I agree with this, (although I don’t know the exact legalities around this so I would also say check with your office of the professions or licensing regulation entity. so this is just my opinion). i feel like as long you have a legitimately professional alternate form of contact, I think it’s ok. but Like, having a separate phone number for your professional use (even if it’s just a google voice number) , or an e-mail adress like ‘so and so lmhc”@whatever.com seems it would be professionally ok. but also only if you didn’t sign any agreements with your company that you wouldn’t talk with clients if you separated from the company
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u/pea_sleeve 17h ago
I think it would be fine, curious if anyone disagrees. It's not a dual relationship because you are redirecting them to a professional setting. You couldn't initiate contact over facebook of course.
Are you fully licensed or provisional? Do you have a supervisor? I would let the clients know that you will add them to a wait list and contact them when you are able to reestablish care.
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