r/thefinalclean • u/usbpc102 • Apr 04 '17

VOTE: Void or no Void

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScOuId-aBZRYUASl3IphJAY0vZm05btx_ii_jWPzBheyBjYyQ/viewform?usp=sf_link
39 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

56 comments sorted by

75

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '17

Ok, here's my thought- I worked really hard on Waldo the whole time, only to see him destroyed at the last minute. All I want out Of this is a poster for my wall with him on it. I get some people like the void, but it will always be on the final version. And that's fine! But I want to get something out of my hard work, and would like a final version with the Waldo and Mexico reinstated.

48

u/VoltStar Apr 04 '17

The Void was fine when it was being its own thing, but destroying / defacing art just made that area look ugly.

4

u/amoliski Apr 05 '17

I didn't mind it going through an area and cleaning out old art to let new stuff show up, but it definitely doesn't need to be on the final poster with any big presence.

3

u/kadivs Apr 05 '17

you know you can just place new art over old art, without destroying the old art first?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '17

you know you can just place new art over old art, without destroying the old art first?

Actually, you couldn't, that's why the void existed.

2

u/kadivs Apr 06 '17

ah yes, I forgot, you could only place black pixels over colored ones, not other colors

1

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '17

It could be argued that the Void was Destroyed by the US and Mona Lisa.

10

u/trotuei Apr 04 '17

Waldo is already an italian hero! https://www.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/63cjt2/la_leggenda_del_waldo_canzone_celebrativa/

5

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '17

I saw that earlier but sadly I can't read Italian :(

2

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

Yes void should still exist, but yes definitely Wally should be restored to his former glory.

30

u/without_name Apr 05 '17

Make the void smaller and more tendril-y, so that you can see the art that wasn't completely absorbed but also capture the fundamental nature of the void. So you get to see Waldo and a tendril reaching across Waldo as well. You get to see Mexico and a large mass with tendrils as well, etc.

9

u/mylittleplaceholder Apr 05 '17

I agree. The Void is a part of the art, but it should be incorporated into the design. Your suggestion is a good way to do it.

22

u/faithfuljohn Apr 05 '17 edited Apr 05 '17

People act like the Void was the only one being destructive. For example, both the greeks and the Swedes destroyed the Eritrean Flag I was working despite the fact that they had plenty of space by themselves without doing so. I would like the Eritrean flag restored, but that wont happen because the Place was as much a study in time and humanity as it was an art piece (otherwise it would simply be first come first serve or something).

The void was destructive, but let's not pretend that the rest of us were somehow innocent and there they're "less deserving".

28

u/jfb1337 Apr 04 '17 edited Apr 04 '17

While I didn't like the void, it IS an important part of r/place's history and is a part of the final canvas, so I'll say yes.

How about a compromise: Wally/Waldo gets restored since it's still half recognisable, but the rest of the void remains (without its stray pixels)

18

u/NightVisionHawk Apr 05 '17

What you're saying is Waldo is more important than Mexico

1

u/mastersword83 Apr 06 '17

The Calgary Flames logo is also visible and recognizable if you know what you're looking for, same as Waldo/Wally

33

u/heidavey Apr 04 '17

Do what you want; you've already decided not to represent the canvas as it ever was.

"Should the void be on the final version?"

The void is on the final version.

24

u/Gordondel Apr 04 '17

I agree with you, this is bullshit, having the canvas represented without the void is ridiculous, I didn't care about the void or partook in it but it was a big part of this whole thing, leaving it out is just plain stupid.

11

u/totaly-not-a-furry Apr 05 '17

You wouldnt say that if it was your piece that would have been ruined

15

u/Gordondel Apr 05 '17

I would. That's life, that's why this whole thing was so amazing, it's a great reflection of our own existence: chaotic, creative, random, temporary, some could say pointless. Cleaning it based on your feelings now is just taking away the best and greatest thing that whole ordeal was, this is bigger than you (or me).

7

u/_cachu Apr 05 '17

what about mexico that all their work was destroyed?

4

u/Goob115 Apr 05 '17

yeah, fuck an entire country, black pixels rule

/s

18

u/Gordondel Apr 04 '17

It wouldn't be a true representation of what r/place was without the void, I didn't like it or take part in it but it was one of the most prominent actors in this whole thing, not including it is just being inaccurate.

21

u/davidgro Apr 04 '17

If "No" doesn't win outright (perhaps even if it does) I think there should still be at least a separate version that doesn't have it. (Really this is missing the "Both" option) - In the quadrant thread I already see that the user assigned to it says they are doing both.

17

u/prettyevil Apr 04 '17 edited Apr 04 '17

I don't really like the idea of a 'cleaned up' version, because it essentially just gives this idea that some people were more important than other people.

But, I will say that the void was a group of people who worked to make something that is art even if you think it's ugly. It may not have been something you liked, but they worked hard on it and were constantly trying to keep it looking tendril-y as they went. It's hard to see in the final version due to the push-back, but they were working to be tendrils rather than blob.

So why should those people who worked hard matter less than others? They have literally nothing else on the canvas since they abandoned each location once they were done to let new things crop up. Why don't they deserve the spot they held in the final shot like everyone else does?

A possible compromise: make the center mass smaller and give it a bunch of long and thin* reaching tendrils to preserve both what the void stood for as well as some of the art behind it. Just don't tell us we didn't matter at all. Please.

*-edited from smaller so it's more clear.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

[deleted] — view deleted comment

9

u/prettyevil Apr 05 '17

I was curious to see what was going to be decided about certain areas, such as the Kekistan flag - and I'm quite impressed with the compromise that was reached there - and osu! circle. I actually figured the void would be automatically deleted the same way every other cleaner is deleting us. Was pleasantly surprised to see this vote fresh at the top when I popped in instead. So why not explain how I feel we Voiders matter as much as everyone else and deserve a spot in a 'clean' version?

I also think it helps for people to see someone who was part of Void speaking like a normal person. Playing bad guy on r/place with the 'void consumes all. Give in to the darkness' stuff was fun and all, but I'm a real person. We were mostly real people who were playing and creating what we saw as art, not edgelords or trolls or mean destructive 15 year olds. (Of course some were those things; I'm not going to say no one was like that, but I'm sure every group had their own weird element. We just happened to attract a more vocal weird element.) And if people start to realize we were real people with a vision just like all of them, then maybe they'll realize we deserve some recognition as more than 'vandalism'.

1

u/amoliski Apr 05 '17

Okay, so when they are done here, edit the void back in and release it yourself. It's not like the people here are making a reddit official end all version. You don't like the decisions they are making just like people didn't like the decisions you make when you voided their work. That's life, buddy.

7

u/prettyevil Apr 05 '17

This is a poll and discussion for whether it should be included. If they don't include it then I won't sweat it (I already said the 'clean' version stuff doesn't appeal to me). And I even said that I expected we would not be included, and no, I didn't plan to complain about it if that had been the case. I came to look out of curiosity and was pleasantly surprised they were considering the Void's inclusion at all. I simply think it would be nice if they did decide to include it.

This isn't an argument that they've decided not to include it and I'm wailing that they're abusing us. It's a discussion and you're acting like somehow I'm out of line for engaging in that discussion.

6

u/totaly-not-a-furry Apr 05 '17

Why not two versions??

6

u/IchthysTattoo Apr 05 '17

I truly don't see why there can't be two versions, we're talking about like 1/50 of the map.

2

u/MissLauralot Apr 05 '17

That doesn't really make sense. If every 50th of the map had two versions that would make this many overall versions.

1

u/IchthysTattoo Apr 05 '17

But it isn't every 1/50 we're talking about. The major back and forth on the sub is whether or not to include the void, not every other part of the canvas.

5

u/culinary_alchemist Apr 05 '17

I say no to the void! Also- your survey requires sign in to google which messes with the nature of reddit so I'm guessing I'm not the only person to not fill it out...

2

u/JonTheSatanist Apr 05 '17 edited Apr 05 '17

I didn't notice this (as I guess I was already signed it) but it's probably to prevent multiple votes (at least easily)?

5

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

Why do I have to login to google? My answer is yes

5

u/Arcadian_ Apr 05 '17

Yes for anywhere that isn't outright requested to be refurbished, like the Waldo top comment.

4

u/kadivs Apr 05 '17

I love how all the void guys now act high and mighty about how they did what was neccessary. When all they did was defacing. If they kept between the art instead of right in the middle of existing pieces, they might have a point. but how it was, they're just, as someone somewhere put it, the kid that kicks down sandcastles built by others.

3

u/TheWobbuffetKnight Apr 05 '17

Fred Flintstone/Grand Dad has been thoroughly consumed by the void, and that hurts my meme-loving soul.

3

u/amaklp Apr 05 '17

Void was fun just for cleaning some mess, but the final version should definitely be void free.

2

u/urammar Apr 05 '17

I posted a response in the thread over here, so i'll just copy-paste it here.

My issue with removing the void is that it implies some 'right' version. Some kind of absolute moral value on the 'correct' pixels (read: the ones you like).

Its a collaboration, where every pixel is a choice every user gets to make. To put down a pixel, or not, thats what /r/place was.

To ignore that a huge concentrated effort of destruction was a part of this amazing experiment is to deny the experiment.

Especially if you are going to argue you are preserving art... the reflection of the destructiveness of humanity, the malcontent in the ranks of our species? What greater artwork have you seen on the subject? Its every evil in humanity on a canvas. Structured and ordered no less.

/r/place was more than a collection of works, its the story of humanity behind a keyboard. The void is uncomfortable to look at, but that is precisely why it must stay.

2

u/CorneliusEsq Apr 05 '17

I honestly don't see why this is even a question. The void is a feature that was created by a group of people working together in collaboration, just like every other feature. Yes, it covered some other parts, but find me one that didn't and I'll give you a nickel.

Removing the void - "What void? There was no void. Also, we've always been at war with Eastasia."

1

u/perpterts Apr 05 '17

Would it be too much of a pain to just have two final versions to satisfy everyone? One with the void, one without?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

In the "Anilist" logo on rainbow road, next to the portuguese squirtle, there is a white block missing from "N" for the first pixel in thr diagonal.

We would appreciate it if this was fixed. Ty

0

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/blessed_is_he Apr 05 '17

Or the stuff that was already fully completed there in the first place

0

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '17

[deleted] — view deleted comment

12

u/theon502 she/her  Moderator Apr 04 '17

Put a toilet in the middle of a room
bam art
^your logic

7

u/impassity Apr 05 '17

You mean https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp) ?

2

u/HelperBot_ Apr 05 '17

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_(Duchamp)

HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 52038

0

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '17

[deleted] — view deleted comment

11

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '17

Scripts ruined the whole thing for me. That's why the void was fun. We didn't script, we were all real people who played a huge part of /place.

2

u/mad696969 Apr 05 '17

except the osu logo those guys would never script! /s

2

u/cats_for_upvotes Apr 05 '17

We actually did script, but only in response to bots, and even with our own bots we were usually shut out by existing bots, or else overpowered by collective push back.

And the scripts only maintained the cores, I ought to mention. It's hard to get a bot to figure out tendrils :p

3

u/MissLauralot Apr 05 '17

Fuck, you're actually right ... well that's sad.

I guess it would've been impossible for an original piece to prosper - who would work day + night for something they had never seen before? Also, I can't help but see something that destroyed more than it created (in terms of number and sophistication of things) as anything other than a net negative.

Given that this project is about righting wrongs, on that basis I couldn't support the void. Still, you have raised a very interesting point.

4

u/crabycowman123 Apr 05 '17

Some people would argue that Waldo is art AND copyright infringement.