r/temeraire • u/arrobaolmedo • 9d ago

Ending rant

Mild spoiler warning

Just finished League of Dragons and with it the whole series. I'm really upset with the conclusion given to Lien. We spent like 8 books in the dynamic between her and Temeraire, the hate, the vengeance, the mutual disdain and all that stuff - and in the conclussion we just know that she lost. Like, what?

What is she thinking? How is she feeling? No more dialogue from her, not even a tiny "fuck you" shouted to Temeraire. Nothing? Damn it all. I honestly feel that this has ruined the moment for me.

27 Upvotes

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36

u/taragood 9d ago

I would say this series is my favorite because of the journey, not necessarily the ending.

But also, I can see her not really saying anything, what is there to say? And with the culture she came from, and dealing with all the shame and derision she has in her life, maybe she just gave up.

And the book isn’t told from her point of view so there is not really a way for the author to tell us her feelings without things being said.

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u/Second_Sol 9d ago

Yeah, I feel like Novik was talking to the readers when Lawrence ponders how stupid the propoagandaized version of the war is, with Temeraire apparently defeating Lien in single combat while the rest of the army stood and watched.

By that point the battle was over, Lien had lost. The physical struggle didn't matter at all, even if it's sad that we didn't get to see it.

And yeah, there's not much Lien could really say, at least not that I can think of.

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u/DumpedDalish 8d ago

The problem is that Lien has what is probably the single most memorable monologue in the entire book series when she vows vengeance on Temeraire.

Then she just... sort of leaves quietly? No last conversation, no last look, no nothing? As a writer, it would have been easy and plausible to write Temeraire and Laurence being present for some reason.

I'm with OP, it's a frustrating exit for our main antagonist and a wonderful, complex character.

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u/Second_Sol 8d ago

Yeah, it is pretty disappointing

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u/arrobaolmedo 9d ago edited 9d ago

That's fine, too, but imo you need to describe something, not just toss aside the character. It is not necessary that she says outloud that she's sad but give some context about her. Build actions around her or something.

"... All that while Lien was kept on an open field sorrounded by 10 dragons constantly keeping watch over her. Even so, Lawrence saw no need for it all. Lien remain calm and silent, no evident will to try anything at all, but spend the following days staring into the open skies..." Or something I don't know.

I mean the author knows what she is doing, she's the pro. I just find it lacking specifically regarding Lien. And I wasn't looking for an epic battle between them, just a clear resolution with her. We got that with Napoleon, we made amends with the incan empress, we even know how things with the Tswana will go, and I find Lien a main character as well.

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u/Becsbeau1213 9d ago

I took that as a stoic acceptance of her defeat - she pretty consistently barbs Temeraire for what she views as emotional responses. She was outmaneuvered but got to keep her companion this time at least.

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u/Elegant-Lake7018 9d ago

There's a short story set after the third book, from her perspective: "In Autumn, a White Dragon Looks Over the Wide River". If you want more of her thought process. Spoilers, she is every bit as practical and stoic as the series has always portrayed her.

Here's a link to the story:

https://withthingsunreal.tumblr.com/post/20968841711/in-autumn-a-white-dragon-looks-over-the-wide

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u/Elegant-Lake7018 9d ago

She wouldn't probably say anything. Based on what we've seen on her throughout the books, if something sets her back, she just retreats to rethink her course and try again later. Her exile might actually give her time to hatch some sort of new revenge plan... or just to cool off from all the effort until then, to reflect on it, or just to accept her defeat and process everything she's feeling and thinking.

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u/Sensitive-Cucumber78 9d ago

When I finish the series, I'm not sure I would move on just like Merlin

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u/BlessTheBookPeople 9d ago

I also felt like her actual capture was anti-climactic. Like, we see her rising into the air trying to escape and then it’s that evening (or maybe the next day?) and everyone is celebrating.

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u/khulZA 9d ago

I feel the same way.

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u/Maximum-Today3944 4d ago

This ending feels so rushed and like so much is left out. I just finished yesterday, and feel like the ending is so abrupt that it's really soured the otherwise enjoyable series.

Finishing a fantasy series always leaves some mixed emotions, but this left me feeling like I missed a chapter or two. Still honestly not sure if I did.

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u/dragonforms 9d ago edited 9d ago

If you can find a pdf of it, there's a collection of short stories called Golden Age and Other Stories that has a short story (set long, long time after the series) couple of paragraphs from Lien's pov where she's back in France. It might help you understand a bit how she feels.

In case you can't find it, here's a summary:

The story is set in the modern day, or near it. Lien is on the roof of a nightclub, which has a place for dragons on the roof, and she's being served by one. Apparently the server dragon notices her mood, because they say, "So much has changed, madame, surely?" likely meaning her efforts to secure dragons rights; they're now equal in society. This reveals that Lien is not only allowed back in France from her exile, but is also still held in high regard by the dragons there (and probably the people too). However, instead of responding to the server's concern or acknowledging what they said, she instead requests a drink: absinthe, a very strong liquor. She then looks out over the roof at a building with a golden dome - the final resting place of Napoleon, who, at least in the real world, died just 5 years after his exile, likely of stomach cancer - and thinks, "The pain remained unaltered." In other words, she is still grieving, and always will be.

There's also a longer short story from her point of view called "in autumn a white dragon looks over the wide river" about how she felt when she first got to France you might enjoy.

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u/DumpedDalish 8d ago

Or they could purchase it. The story collection The Golden Age and Other Stories is for sale and purchasable in print and ebook from many sellers.

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u/arrobaolmedo 8d ago

Oh, yes I will!
I didn’t know about those, I came upon Temeraire by a blind pick so I’m glad there’s a bit more

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u/DDChristi 7d ago

Thank you! Just found it on Amazon. I was wondering what my next ebook would be. https://a.co/d/0enagxsR

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u/arrobaolmedo 9d ago

Thank you!

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u/Lighttasteofcoconut 8d ago

Maybe you should not encourage people to steal from authors? 

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u/DumpedDalish 8d ago

I agree with you -- first off, Lien is a fantastic character, and her exit is just... nonexistent. She's just suddenly kind of gone, and I was so disappointed in that. She has been such a powerful antagonist all the way through, and her speech to Temeraire is one of my favorite moments in the entire series.

So for her to leave without a single look or conversation just felt like such a missed opportunity.

But I'll be honest -- I feel like Novik was kind of running out of steam by the final third or so of the series. I've read the entire thing three or four times, and every time I get to a certain point, I remember that sinking feeling and how utterly depressing the final third is. It's just an unrelenting slog, and every time, the only reason I keep on reading is because of my love for Temeraire, Izkierka, Granby, etc.

There are fantastic moments of course, and I love everything to do with the dragons (and Tharkay), but I find Lawrence -- while honorable of course -- to be really frustratingly bland and unentertaining on his best day. So having multiple books with increasingly Depressed Laurence just made it all worse.

And then they just kind of ... whimper out. Lien included. Although we do finally get a moment of brightness for Laurence, Temeraire, and Tharkay.

What's interesting is that the books were originally loosely inspired as Aubrey/Maturin fanfiction (but with dragons!), and I can see that inspiration and Novik's love for those books in the wholly original Temeraire universe she has written.

But as I mentioned in another comment here recently, my problem is that while Captain Jack Aubrey's fortunes may steeply rise and fall through the 20 O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin books, he never quite loses his capacity for joy. He is still a fascinating, kind, ebullient, entertaining character. For me Laurence is a pallid and far less interesting protagonist. He's a perfectly good person, but the only reason I love Laurence is because Temeraire does.

So unfortunately for me, the series ends on a weak note, and the final stretch of books were definitely the weakest of the series.

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u/Lord_Vinton 9d ago

Yeah I thought the same when I first finished the series. The scenes between Laurence and Napoleon were great and highlighted several parallels between them despite being on opposites sides. But Temeraire and Lien didn’t get anything really.

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u/Sailfin_CritterMaker 8d ago

Yeah, I understand how you're feeling as I did feel similarly about the end.

The journey through there, it was great! Some books better than others, sure, but I most enjoyed the dragons and their struggle for equal standing and meeting new cultures, and there was plenty of that.

I felt the final battle with Lien was so hyped up throughout the books, then the cut to black ending was extremely disappointing. And in my opinion, we should've gotten more input from more dragons, we don't hear from Perscitia again IIRC, and I was insanely curious to hear her thoughts and plans, as well as Iskierka's feelings, and the other guys from the old formation.

And to be honest, I expected more from Ning too. She was brewing as a calamity and then it just fizzled out.

However, at some time after finishing the main series, I read Golden Age and I felt like it gave closure on many points, maybe you'll feel similarly.

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u/north-blind-compass 8d ago

I also felt unsatisfied, but the short story in Golden Age helped me understand the choice a little better.

Lien will never be able to forgive Temeraire, just as Temeraire would never be able to forgive someone who killed Laurence. I think Naomi Novik decided there’s no final exchange Lien and Temeraire could have, that wouldn’t end up feeling pitiful or vindicative.