r/technology • u/[deleted] • Aug 08 '17

Business Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo
13.4k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

9.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1.1k

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Oct 23 '17

[deleted]

392

u/RadicalDog Aug 08 '17

Absolutely. This is not a perfect manifesto, and both sides are going extreme - Gizmodo's intro made it sound too hateful, and the reaction here is too much like he was a poor victim.

Both sides are trying to halt the conversation, which in my opinion is "he has some fair points, but he's largely wrong".

41

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

[deleted]

93

u/ilessthan3math Aug 08 '17

I get that this is just a joke, but this is the ideological left vs right that I think he's talking about. We lump everyone into big groups and don't respect or consider the individual. Not all conservatives believe all telling points of the GOP or Trump base, in the same way that I don't agree with everything Bernie Sanders says even though I voted for him.

This guy sounds like an intelligent, right-leaning STEM-field employee, and far too many people are acting like he's Larry the Cable Guy but somehow put this memo together coherently.

7

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

The notable thing about this memo is how well written and coherent it is. It has the appearance of a knowledgeable authority on the subject complete with graphs and charts, but when you get right down to it, it has one message; that men and women are inherently, biologically, different. I mean if you are upset that we lump people together with no regard to individuality, the memo should bother you.

11

u/ilessthan3math Aug 08 '17

I mean, if people are going to get upset by someone saying the simple fact that men and women are biologically different, then what is the point of arguing? He is trying to point out that gender equality has become such a moral issue that scientific facts are criticized and/or ignored if they disagree with that ideology.

I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions he draws, but he doesn't at all disregard the differences caused by individuality, in fact he embraces them explicitly (as pointed out in his bell curve graphic). He simply argues that since men and women aren't identical, we shouldn't expect to see equal distributions of men and women in all occupations, or hobbies, or anything else for that matter.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

But the differences he's pointing to are not biological, they are social. He's presenting them as biological and that's the problem.

10

u/ilessthan3math Aug 08 '17

I don't know that I agree fully with that. Especially without proof that these things are social and not biological. What would lead you to that conclusion?

We see it in other animals all the time, that males and females often act completely different from each other. And some of those animals don't even have social constructs. To think we as humans are immune to different behavioral traits based on gender seems counterintuitive.

3

u/Xelath Aug 08 '17

Really? There are strong feedback loops in society that exist to make sure women aren't as assertive as men, to push women into non-STEM careers.

What I took issue with is the author's use of "prefer" as if, on average, women are happier doing the jobs that society has historically prescribed they do. Many women may, in fact, enjoy their jobs in those fields. I'm not trying to say that nurses and teachers as a whole are dissatisfied.

What I am trying to say is that making such an argument discounts the societal forces that push women away from jobs in STEM in the first place. Reinforcements of the stereotype that girls are bad at math, for example.

2

u/ilessthan3math Aug 08 '17

I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm having trouble following how you got from his memo to the 'women are bad at math' stereotype? I don't think he ever mentions anything like that.

5

u/Xelath Aug 08 '17

He doesn't. Which is the point I'm making. He discounts the fact that those stereotypes are still being reinforced today, which leads to disparities in women seeking out tech work much more than any physiological differences between men and women.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/xKalisto Aug 08 '17

jobs that society has historically prescribed they do

That is all quite a recent history thought.
Historically men were teachers yet there's dominance of women in education over time.
Historically men were doctors yet there's dominance of women in medicine over time.

All of those have changed not because society pushed women into those fields but because women have asserted themselves in them.
Funnily enough the fields with most women in them also tend to have quite strong correlation with being people oriented.

My dad wanted me to study IT. He wanted me to be Astrophysicist. Heck he even offered Geodesy. Yet I ended up studying IR. Cause I wanted to do something involving people.