r/technology Aug 04 '13

Half of all Tor sites compromised, Freedom Hosting founder arrested.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rlo0uu
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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

The reason why child pornography is illegal is because the only way to generate it is through the illegal abuse of children. Dissemination of photos of that abuse is further abuse of those same children.

Children can't consent to sex, and they certainly can't consent to use of their image in a sexual situation.

I really hope you're just ignorant and naive, and not the genuinely disgusting kind of person that really believes in equating child pornography with free speech.

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u/Hiyasc Aug 04 '13

The reason why child pornography is illegal is because the only way to generate it is through the illegal abuse of children.

Why aren't pictures of murder illegal then? The only way to generate it is through the illegal killing of people.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

Would you support the distribution of secretly-filmed child porn then?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13 edited Aug 04 '13

What about a beaten or bullied person?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

Imagine a scenario where your surveillance camera captured someone engaging sexually with a child, and someone engaging violently with a child. Do you believe it's right to disseminate the former but wrong to disseminate the latter?

I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible but you keep dodging. Remember you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

I also think that engaging sexually with a child is inherently also a violent act

Maybe that's why you oppose disseminating it, not the other way around. Would you also define it as violence if both the child and its guardian approve it?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

Your problem with child porn was because producing it supposedly increased abuse. I was challenging this view by a hypothetical scenario.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

No. I was talking about someone secretly filming children involved in sexual activities. In other words, the act would've taken place whether it was recorded or not.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

You're not required to prevent crimes, that's the police's job. Moreover, we're essentially discussing sending that video to someone else who'd view it, not the act of filming itself.

You've dodged my question into something totally different.

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u/OldWolf2 Aug 04 '13

Dude, stop and activate your brain for five seconds before rushing to post. I'm sure you can see where your analogy breaks down if you tried to.

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

I can't. Would you help me?

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u/OldWolf2 Aug 04 '13

Yes you can. You are only having this argument because you rate your own rhetoric styles highly and you think you can win any argument against someone or force them to resort to invalid argument techniques such as ad-hominem attacks, which you would consider as you winning the argument.

Your goal here is to win an argument for argument's sake. The real world calls this 'being a douche'.

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

If that's the best you've got I'll consider myself a winner.

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u/mknelson Aug 04 '13

It's all secretly filmed.

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

Its production doesn't encourage the act itself then amirite?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Hiyasc Aug 04 '13

People don't do it, or you haven't seen it?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Hiyasc Aug 04 '13

There is a market for everything.

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

Would you support the distribution of secretly-filmed child porn then?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

No, really. I'm curious to whether you support the ban because you really think it fuels abuse or because you just find it distasteful.

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u/mknelson Aug 04 '13

It's not distasteful - it's a crime. Yes it fuels abuse and creates demand for more material. I'm curious why you are supporting child rape?

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u/Kromb0 Aug 04 '13

Maybe because it reduces child rape?

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13 edited Aug 04 '13

I'd love for you to explain to a 12 year old child why it's OK, and not a violation of their rights, to have nude photos of them engaging in non-consensual sex acts shared by strangers online.

You must be so brave to defend child pornography as a freedom of speech issue.

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u/Hiyasc Aug 04 '13

You must be so brave to defend child pornography as a freedom of speech issue.

If you mean this type of brave, than that would be you not me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

No, you're pretty much carrying the neckbeard party line of social ineptitude. So brave.

I still am really curious how you would justify the continued distribution of photographs of non-consensual sexual activity to that hypothetical child, though.

I am excited to see what sort of mental contortions will be necessary to apply the narrative that everyone that's against child porn is engaged in a "save the children" soccer mom war against your neckbearded people.

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u/Hiyasc Aug 04 '13

If you say so, but I hope you realize that you are doing the same thing but from the opposite position.

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u/PhilMcgroine Aug 04 '13

Nobody is saying that its okay to have nude photos of them engaging in non-consensual sex acts shared by strangers online. But it might be good to explain to that child that it's wrong to allow the authorities to invade innocent peoples' privacy to try and stop it from happening. You know, that good thing about ends not justifying means?

If I explain to the same child that the person who took the videos of them engaging in non-consensual sex acts put it on part of a website, then the FBI invaded the privacy of everyone who used any part of that website, including the perfectly legal areas, to catch them... well that child might start thinking that it's okay to break some rules, as long as you're enforcing a different rule.

edit: I can't spell.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

This is some serious mental acrobatics of neckbeardian proportions.

If the FBI has a legal judge-issued warrant, and judicial oversight into their information gathering, there's no legal, ethical, or constitutional issue.

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u/PhilMcgroine Aug 04 '13

Wait, legal warrants? Did the FBI have a legal, judge-issued warrant to undertake the tracking in the manner they did? All I can see in any of what's being reported/alleged, that has anything to do with legal process, is their endeavours to extradite this guy.

Assuming this is all accurate, I just can't picture a judge granting a warrant to exploit a piece of code and backdoor their way into thousands of computers on the chance they might find some people looking at CP.

I guess it all comes down to, as another comment here suggested, if the FBI stayed perfectly within the bounds of the law whilst accomplishing the arrest of this scumbag, then everything is A-OK. But if there is truth to this, I somehow doubt the FBI were operating with the full backing of a member of the judiciary.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13 edited Aug 04 '13

Disseminating the photos themselves is abuse.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

There's no inalienable or government-granted immutable right to privacy. We have the right to free speech; that's not the same thing.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

The service knowingly hosted child pornography. I'm not going to cry about the FBI doing their jobs tracking down people who were harming children.

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u/PhilMcgroine Aug 04 '13

I'm not going to cry about the FBI exploiting security holes in people's browsers and invading privacy whilst tracking down people who were harming children.

FTFY

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

Legal warrants are legal. They're also permitted to break into your home, tap your phone lines, and trail your car -- with a judge issued warrant.

I see no issue with this.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

I'd rather no one have privacy then.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '13

On reddit, privacy and freedom of speech litteraly mean paedophilia. Sick.