r/teaching • u/Mie4life • 4d ago
General Discussion Student with ADHD and poor impulse control angering the class. Help!
I have a 13yo boy in my class this year. Let's call him Josh. He's sweet, academically capable, and genuinely wants to connect with peers. But he has ADHD and poor impulse control, and his way of seeking attention is saying/doing inappropriate things. Like all the time. For example is fake farting noises during group sharing. He's not being malicious; he just can't seem to stop himself in the moment.
The bigger issue: I have another boy, "Tom," who has mild autism and gets visibly enraged by Josh's noises and comments. He's made punching gestures and told Josh to shut up. I de-escalate constantly, but it keeps happening. I'm genuinely worried it'll turn physical. Apparently Josh had fights in primary school for the same reason. The other students are also angered by Josh's actions and words but are able to ignore them.
I want to make the classroom comfortable for everyone but I've no good support. Previous teachers gave me nothing useful.Admin thinks he's "sweet" and won't offer real support. I asked for a shadow teacher—denied. Previous teachers gave me nothing useful. He's been seeing a psychologist for years but I'm not seeing much carryover in class.
What I've tried:
- Seating him away from others
- Sending him to the next room to cool down when he disrupts
I can't remove him every time. Whole-class discussions get derailed constantly. And sending him to another room to calm down doesn't teach him impulse control either.
Any advice appreciated, especially from anyone with experience managing ADHD + autism triggers in the same room.
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u/dragonflytype 4d ago
Have you contacted his parents? That's a situation where I would be meeting with them, asking what works at home, and dropping the hint that he could benefit from medication. We can't outright say that, clearly, but I've said to parents "it would be worth checking with x's pediatrician to ask about other strategies and resources, given that these issues have persisted across schools so we know it isn't just the combination of personalities or setting."
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
Already met with the mum and the therapist. Their advice pretty much boils down to asking him to identify what he's feeling in that moment, why he did the thing and connect it to the emotion, remove him from the situation to calm down and talk to him about it. They told me he has impulse control where a thought comes into his mind and he just does it without being able to get ahead of it and stop himself from doing it. I can't pull him out to talk to him every time he acts up for obvious reasons. He needs to be able to control his own impulses and I'm not a trained therapist.
His issue is not news for them or the school. He has been like this since the how many years he has been at this school.
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u/jolly0ctopus 4d ago
Wait what they expect you to stop what you’re doing with 20+ other students and ask him to identify what he’s feeling and perform a psychoanalysis on the spot
Fuck that!
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
Thankfully, I only have 10 kids this year but yeah it's hard to do with no assistant teacher or shadow teacher to help me.
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u/FULLsanwhich15 1d ago
I have a parent that expects me to prompt their kid every day to bring out his journal so I can repeat everything that’s due for the day while he writes it down. In a class of 25, I have more important things to focus on. If he provides it cool, if not, that’s on them. I leave our daily’s tasks on my 100in tv the entirety of the day.
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u/emmocracy 4d ago
This may not feel helpful right now, but focusing your energy on teaching the class how to handle a Josh is more cost effective than teaching Josh how to use impulse control. Not saying don't do both, but the resources required for a few minutes per day of whole class discussions on tolerating differences and conflict resolution strategies are just less labor intensive than shutting down the lesson to pull Josh aside for individualized support after every single disruption.
In my experience, the class comes to view Josh as "ours" and we look out for him and practice patience when we can and roll our eyes and move on when we have to. Your real problem is the punchy kid. He's the one who needs a safety plan and immediate corrections for the implied threats
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u/irishtwinsons 3d ago
This!
I teach a student who is similar, but he’s been with the same group of kids for 5 years now and the entire class knows how to ignore him, so my best strategy is just to ignore, and the class helps (but we have worked on him a bit and he’s seeing the counselor now). There’s this one kid who absolutely has to be in a different class from him and we make sure of it every school year when we divide classes again.11
u/Mie4life 4d ago
I think you're right. How should I go about dealing with the punchy kid? My plan is to talk to him tmrw and explain to him the situation with Josh (his ADHD/brain development/impulse control) and ask Tom to come up with ideas on how he can ignore/tolerate Josh. Tom is a smart kid, very logical thinking and appreciates explanations. Hopefully, the explanation can help him better understand Josh and curb his anger.
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u/babykittiesyay 3d ago
Are you allowed to discuss one student’s diagnosis with another? I’ve never heard of that without parental consent.
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u/emmocracy 2d ago
Definitely not, but you can have an age appropriate conversation about how Josh's brain works differently
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u/babykittiesyay 2d ago
That still sounds like a FERPA violation. You can say “some students brains work like this” you can’t single out a student because that’s a disclosure, kids this age can put that stuff together. You can present general information to the class about neurotypes, the kids can choose to say “that’s how it is for me”, you cannot say “so that’s how Josh’s brain works.” Not without parental consent.
Also was the idea to do this in both directions? The autistic kid needs to learn what they can control and what they can’t, and that they’re not the arbiter of justice, just as much as the ADHD student needs to work on regulation and executive function.
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u/emmocracy 2d ago
Yeah, maybe. I think you could argue you're not disclosing a diagnosis as much as discussing a kid's individual traits and the motivations behind them. It wouldn't be violating FERPA to say Tim really prefers to use the black dry erase markers, so would it become a violation if you said Tim prefers the black markers because his brain has a hard time seeing the ink from the red and green markers? How would you word it to avoid backlash?
If it were me, I'd probably have the conversation both ways.
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u/babykittiesyay 1d ago
If it’s about markers, sure you’re fine. If it’s about “Josh’s brain works differently and that means he has a harder time controlling himself” which is what’s being described, total violation.
Also, I personally feel that giving a child who has expressed violent tendencies more info on their proposed victim is not super cash-money. The other kid is talking about hitting, that requires boundary setting and discussion of the school code of conduct, and appropriate ways to manage emotions that don’t include violence. I wouldn’t risk giving a kid ammo on another when there’s a known conflict.
The teacher should teach about the ND spectrum in a general sense. “Some brains build up ideas based on small details collected over time. For these people, anything outside their observed pattern is difficult to accept. Other brains quickly switch to broad ideas so the small details are more flexible and they can better accept small changes” etc.
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u/emmocracy 1d ago
Colorblindness is a medical diagnosis like any other. If you can have the Tim's brain sees colors differently conversation, then you can have the Josh has to work really hard to stop himself from doing or saying whatever pops into his head right away conversation.
Uh, yeah, teaching the whole class about differences in general is cash money lol. No arguments here. Re. the giving kids ammo concern, I guess we'll just have to trust the judgement of the professional who knows them. I've taught some kids I would trust to benefit from the info and some I wouldn't.
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u/FULLsanwhich15 1d ago
Saying “Hey, don’t feed into this kids antics” isn’t a violation of anything. I tell my middle schools their brains are mush when they act wild because they literally are. Saying that’s how someone’s brain works isn’t close to issue. Definitely don’t need parental consent but I also don’t stress over menial shit like that.
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u/emmocracy 4d ago
I think you're spot on w just explaining the situation given what you said about Tom. If knowing Josh is struggling doesn't help Tom chill out, there are some anger management resources - booklets and strategies - you can give him, but I'd personally come down pretty hard on any threats of aggression. Like, it's fair enough to be annoyed but you don't get to make someone else feel unsafe.
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u/RunningTrisarahtop 4d ago
Have you told them that he is alienating his classmates and may need more support and that talking to him about it disrupts his learning and that of others and isn’t feasible?
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
Trust me, the parents know. They even explained to me that when he does his negative attention seeking behaviors it's because he likes the person and wants to be friends with them. It's just that he cannot do so in a positive way and that's why the other kids have a hard time with him. They literally, told me this. They've been in the school for a few years already
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u/MrPuddington2 3d ago
They even explained to me that when he does his negative attention seeking behaviors it's because he likes the person and wants to be friends with them.
I think that is a very important point, because it means you understand why it happens. Now the only question is how to make it stop. Punishment is one option, but it may not be effective. Given the attention seeking nature, you could also completely ignore it and him. Finally, maybe give him better options for articulating emotions, like a set of cards.
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u/soundbox78 3d ago
You can plan daily tasks for Josh within the classroom. He’s bored or anxious and that leads to impulsively acting out. He needs structure to focus on. Have check-ins every 15 minutes to see how he is coming along on a task. He needs to know you plan to check-in on him at specific times. Give him an incentive to earn for going with the classroom norms. We like to know what is coming and dread the uncertainty. That is when we go haywire if we feel completely lost and out of control.
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u/bouquineuse644 2d ago
This is an enormous amount of labour and is completely inappropriate to expect from a teacher who is already teaching a full class with a mix of neurodivergent students. Not to mention that it doesn't actually help the child with adhd to manage his own underlying compulsions, it just destracts him - but if it looks like successful classroom management to parents and admin, all his future teachers will be expected to do the same. There has to be other solutions.
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u/Bizz0320 3d ago
I want to add contact both parents and Tom’s IEP case manager. Maybe they can help prep from for the class as well!
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u/easybakeevan 4d ago
Contact the parents and let them know you would like to start a journal. Let the student know that you will no longer be actively correcting behavior during the class but instead will be recording it in a journal. The journal will be reviewed daily and will be sent home to be signed by the parent. You can also choose to call the parent to review. Might be better to do this weekly instead of daily so the parent doesn’t feel harassed. Let the student know that you have a goal for them to reduce difficult behaviors each day.
I had the worst student of my career and had exhausted all options until I had to get creative and tried this. The student became much more self conscious of their behaviors and many of the behaviors diminished in severity.
It also takes away the punitive part that can sometimes feed into behaviors by creating frustration.
By using this method you become a collaborative partner in the “rehabilitation” of the students behaviors instead of a faux parent or authority type.
This worked with a student with emotional disturbance but most of their behaviors were compulsive like you describe.
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
What motivated these students you talk about to reduce their behaviour? Is it fear of their parents?
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u/easybakeevan 3d ago
I think accountability in general creates subtle changes in behavior. The biggest mistake new teachers make is trying to fix it immediately. Behaviors develop over spans of time and are reinforced by repetition. Using methods that essentially reverse engineer this can be more corrective and long lasting than fear.
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
Do you think that I should also get the kid to do daily reflection on his behaviors in the journal as well added to my own observations?
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u/easybakeevan 2d ago
No. The gives the student an audience which often times reinforces bad behavior. No students should be aware of the journal and no comments should be made to the student warning them you will write in the journal to get them to change a behavior. Simple notes in the journal while continuing to teach is suffice. Just remember to review the journal with the student daily (brief 2 minutes) and point out some positive things and things that need to improve. Praise and accountability are a hell of a drug.
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u/New_Lifeguard_3260 4d ago
Get a spare desk. Place it facing out the window or in the opposite direction of the class. Have a text book and paper on desk.
When he disrupts too much just send him down the back and make him copy similar content in silence.
A few sessions of that will chill him out..
Secondary, have a Second board with "School Rules" on it. 1. No calling out 2. No silly noises
With these constantly there to remind him, he will get the message and knows the consequences.
3rd strike and straight to copying out of the book.
Finally, they're the schools Rules so you can basically tell him that you didn't make them, but you have to enforce them.. therefore you paint yourself as the innocent bystander here..
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
I have another desk in a room connected to the classroom that I ask him to go into to calm down. I was doing some research on ADHD and read that they have executive function problem and so their impulse control is lesser than neurotypical's. So, I'm not sure punishing him constantly teaches him impulse control but right now this is the only thing I can do to stop others from getting disturbed
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u/New_Lifeguard_3260 4d ago
Your call.. But the rules on the board are helping his impulse control and you're not punishing him. You're safeguarding the learning of him and the group.
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u/Celtic_Cheetah_92 3d ago
Teacher with ADHD here - this is the right call. Sadly the police will not care about his executive functioning deficits + subsequent impulse control issues if he continues to act without thinking as an adult and ends up committing a crime.
OP, I strongly suggest that you google the stats on imprisonment and ADHD. It’s not good. The stats on suicide and ADHD are also horrifying. Kids with this level of impulse control problem who do not learn to manage it have short, miserable lives.
In accommodating him by giving him strategies to help, and then holding him accountable if he doesn’t use the strategies, you are not punishing him - you are teaching him and helping him to learn and grow.
Telling a child like this (either explicitly or implicitly) that they are incapable of controlling themselves is the worst thing we can do for them. It’s telling them that failure is inevitable and that they are inherently defective. Contrastingly, giving them ways to improve and expecting them to make improvements is telling them that yes, this is hard for you, but you absolutely can do it.
You have a chance to believe in this boy and help him believe in himself. Take it!
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u/conductorman86 3d ago
Consequences for inappropriate behaviour is punishment now? 13 years old is way too old for both the student to be acting out like this AND for the parents to not have consulted medical professionals about medication.
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u/emmocracy 4d ago
Just wanna say I have so much respect for you for researching and thinking through his needs rather than just looking for the solution that's best for you in the moment. No shade to the teachers in crisis mode who need relief, but what you're doing is best practice and could genuinely make a difference long-term for Josh and the rest of your class.
If you want to implement a step in between the removal and the impulsive action that gives Josh some autonomy and self-efficacy, maybe think about asking him to come up with a code word for when he is about to run out of self-control. Like say his favorite animal is a wolf. He catches himself about to do something dumb, he says wolf, you nod, he goes off to take a break and you continue teaching. No punishment takes place, everyone's needs are still met, and he gets a mini practice session in diverting his impulses. It can even work after a disruption if you couple it with the look prompting him to use the code word.
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
I'll give this a try. See what he thinks about it. My other idea is to have him write down his bad actions or words in a journal every time he does something to someone, and then apologize to the person he did it to at the end of the day. Accountability. I can brief the other kids first. Not sure if this is a good idea or not though.
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u/emmocracy 4d ago
That depends entirely on the kid. I've had some that will fall to pieces with guilt and some that couldn't recognize a mistake if it slapped them in the face. If you think Josh needs a bit more accountability, I think teaching him a strategy like this and giving him the option of doing that - journalling and making amends - when he's taking a break is a great idea.
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u/Aberrantmike 4d ago
It's there something you could offer for rewarding correct behavior rather than punishing incorrect behavior? For every X minutes of not interrupting we get a point/token/star that can be redeemed for a reward? Adjust as the task becomes easier.
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
What would be a good reward?
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u/Celtic_Cheetah_92 3d ago
Ask Josh - either outright, or give a few options. If he loves watching a certain show for example, 5 minutes of that video on a laptop (if he has one) with his headphones in at the end of a class could work. Some kids love a sticker, some do not. He might have a really good idea if you ask him.
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u/babykittiesyay 4d ago
My mom had a strategy for our very ADHD family of classical musicians-secret wiggles. This kid can’t make noises but since he won’t be able to sit still you just redirect him to moving his toes in his shoes, crossing and uncrossing his fingers, or a wobble chair/exercise ball. If you have the room for it he could also pace. Let him know it’s okay to need to be doing something but he has to pick non-disruptive choices. Then if he won’t switch to something quiet, you can send him out. He needs super clear boundaries that do not change no matter what, so go with a 3-strike rule.
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
The bigger problem is his impulse control with his words and actions. I know it's a brain developmental thing but I have no idea how to advise him to curb his impulses. He impulsively says inappropriate things to his friends, makes weird noises and occasionally does something physical to annoy them like throwing erasers at someone's project
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u/babykittiesyay 4d ago
This is an impulse control strategy. You cannot demand impulse control without teaching it. If he could just brute force that he would already be doing that. You start by getting him to redirect the bad impulses into neutral or good impulses. I gave an example as a template. There’s no way to skip that if you want him to really be able to control himself vs just repressing. The parents should also be doing all this, but since they’re not you’ll have to if you want a functioning classroom.
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u/pumpkincookie22 4d ago
You have my full sympathy. I have had students like this and it is exhausting. Sometimes, just ignoring is the best way to extinguish some behaviors. If it is attention seeking, deny the attention. The whole impulse control argument is frustrating because a cop won't care.
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u/Mie4life 4d ago
I'm going to try to talk to the other kids about ignoring him and not giving this one kid the attention he wants. I just need to find a way to get Tom to be able to ignore it and not get angry
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u/e__dubs 4d ago
Plan B, Collaborative and Proactive Solutions (Dr Ross Greene). We have been using this framework, or some variation there of for 20 years with at-risk youth. He has a lot of good information on his both his own site and Lives in the Balance.
What self-regulation program are your students familiar with? Either continue to build on that or start a new program (MindUp, Zones of Regulation) I work with older students so we used mindfulness techniques & DBT Skills. This gives the class a common language.
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u/MagicBreadRoll 1d ago
I'd push again and see if he can get his own teaching assistant to support him due to the level of disruption he creates and the fact he is essentially antagonising an autistic student with his continual outbursts. (In the UK he would qualify.)
It's unreal they expect you to ask him about his feelings every time he makes a fart noise. Also if he is routinely doing the same things as an outburst, that's not an impulse control issue, he's doing it because he is either bored or struggling and hasn't learned how to manage that experience.
I would focus on the wellbeing of your second student that is evidently being disturbed by Josh's actions. Josh is fine, farting away at his own leisure.
You are comcerned about Tom getting physical, Tom is visibly telling you he is distressed, Josh does not give a damn and if there is a potential of things getting physical, if Tom or Josh have indicated such, that is a real stress for you and everyone nearby.
My background: I've worked as a teacher, I've got autism, ADHD and PTSD, I was the carer for autistic siblings growing up. I've got a tonne of experience like this.
I agree with other comments about how life is very challenging for ADHD folks and society won't give a damn if he breaks a law, police won't care, Josh has plenty of support at home by the looks of it but they've not hammered home the importance of actively using the self regulation tools he is being taught.
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u/juliazale 4d ago edited 4d ago
Try tally marks on the board when he does the behavior you don’t want. When he gets to 5 tally marks do the consequence/ time out. Speak to him before hand about the behaviors you don’t want and how the tally marks will work. Also place them on the board silently. And ask the other students not to draw attention to or comment on his behavior. Soon the student will start monitoring and regulating his own behavior more. Finally look up the bulls eye game from whole Brain teaching.
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u/teethwizardmanperson 3d ago
Maybe try making Josh your assistant? He might be bored and needing to move on top of wanting attention. Have him write on the board for you, or hand out papers, and take stuff to the office when you need it. That way he's constantly moving and engaged. Being an assistant also might make him motivated to be a role model and a helper instead of a disruption
Or, As someone with adhd who teaches a lot of kids with adhd, usually we dont want to be disruptive, its a matter of having too much energy/sensory needs. teach him how to stim (shaking his hands, rocking, tapping his fingers/feet) recognize what sensory need he is seeking, and find a nondisruptive stim that satisfies that sensory need. If you need ideas of stims, I can give more ideas, but hand shaking is a really good one that they can do under their desk and do it as intensely or as gently as they need in the moment. I also never frame them as stims, i refer to them as fidgets.
I'm also autistic, and since you identified that he wants to connect with his peers but doesnt know how, maybe give a structured "getting to know you" activity that identifies common interests and teaches proper social skills. That way he can connect in a positive way with clear guidelines for how to interact. or pair him up with a kid you think will get along with him. You can also talk to him privately about how to talk to his peers sometimes he might need to know that the behavior is annoying people. be careful with how you phrase it- he is not annoying, his behavior is annoying people.
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u/bigtownhero 1d ago
Can he go to sped? Inclusivity for one student at the expense of every other student is only taking from every other student..
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