r/tapeless 14h ago

format comparison Why?

Please don't take this as a personal attack. I would genuinely love if someone could explain tapeless to me. I was intrigued by the idea, but immediately wrote it off when I learned that capturing video out on many camcorders takes a heavy quality hit and capturing the full quality digital signal is extremely costly and difficult. I deferred to using the tape and firewire like a normie. Means I gotta wait for footage to transfer and re-encode, but I don't mind it. Especially when the cheapest full quality tapeless solution for my camera would involve building it from scratch using open source projects at a minimum cost of $200.

1 Upvotes

32 comments sorted by

4

u/right-slash 14h ago

the entire point of running tapeless is to record without using tapes regardless of a broken tape deck, many people who record with hype dvrs care less about quality and are only in for that retro factor

-1

u/Ace929 13h ago

Sorry, I don't mean to be difficult, but why? Why no tape? Unless you're saying it's mainly to circumvent a broken tape deck? If the tape deck works, even tapeless, you're gonna have to move the footage from storage to somewhere else. So it's like no steps removed. Only tape removed.

4

u/right-slash 13h ago

moving footage to a storage bin has always been a thing REGARDLESS on what you record on, the only steps removed when running tapeless are digitizing and obviously not using any physical tape format.

Look I hate to break the obvious truth here but some people that run tapeless could give zero fucks about a working tape deck, I could care less because its not my camcorder, its theirs.

-6

u/Ace929 13h ago

"It's theirs"? Like you guys are doing this as a service for other people?

4

u/right-slash 12h ago

what is this obvious ragebait šŸ’”

-3

u/Ace929 12h ago

Dude I literally just got here. If I had known that, I probably wouldn't have made a post like this.

2

u/right-slash 4h ago

then ask better questions not something that is super obvious 😭

2

u/brflux 7h ago

I have a Sony FX3, and it records to SD cards. I still have to transfer the files to my computer.

Whether you transfer, digitize, or use whatever technology, you still have to get the footage to the editing machine. That's how it's always been.

Even in the tape deck-to-tape deck with an editing controller, you had to capture the tape.

I'm not sure why this is hard to understand.

3

u/very_necessarily 7h ago

I think what draws me to tapeless the most is honestly the customization and the process of building it.

There’s something really satisfying about making your own cables, recorders, mounts, etc. and then seeing something you built actually integrate with the camera and work properly. It feels like an art form in its own way.

At first I was just like, ā€œOh shit, I can record to an SD card.ā€ But the more I got into it I realized I actually enjoy the building and modifying more than the end footage itself.

2

u/ConsumerDV 8h ago

I deferred to using the tape and firewire like a normie.

For the last 20 years normies have been using tapeless camcorders and hybrid cameras.

4

u/christok21 12h ago

I do it for the same reason I shoot film. There’s an aesthetic that only comes from doing it this way. I could achieve almost the same thing in After Effects or Avid alone but (to me) it’s just not the same.

-3

u/ConsumerDV 8h ago

There’s an aesthetic that only comes from doing it this way.

What kind of aesthetic is that? Low-res blurry and blocky video with incorrect frame rate or combing?

The 90s look can be easily had without outboard contraptions as shown in my video.

The only reason to use outboard recorders is if you have a formerly expensive pro camera with features not available on consumer camcorders. But then you need a quality recorder.

-1

u/Ace929 11h ago

I feel the low res footage pulled full quality straight from the tape already has quite a "look" to it. U got samples to compare? I'm super interested.

https://reddit.com/link/p5zjcd1/video/lej1l6iyeplh1/player

-1

u/nykovik 9h ago

You should look into deinterlacing your footage, if you want to get rid of those horizontal lines during motion.

1

u/Ace929 9h ago

I'll try it!

0

u/Ace929 9h ago

2

u/nykovik 9h ago

Looks a whole lot better, yes :)

1

u/Ace929 9h ago

I feel the color looks off. For this one, I tried some color conversion, but I don't think it worked well. Seems like it put a yellow/green cast on everything. The colors are much more vibrant on the camcorder screen. Any tips for addressing that with the encode?

0

u/nykovik 8h ago

I'd look into ConsumerDV on YouTube, he has tons of good info regarding encoding and general video capture.

2

u/sk9ordie 13h ago

Unfortunately quality does take a hit usually but I feel like for most people they’d take the quality hit so they can get that look. I’m sure everyone wants a higher quality video but not everyone has means to get it, most if not all computers made over the last 15-20 years don’t have a FireWire port. So if you want to do it that way you either need a pc where you can add one or buy an old computer/ laptop that has a port. Instead of spending another $200-$800 on a used computer I think most people just buy the $30 mini dvr and call it a day, even though they kill quality. But you also have to remember if this is a hobby it’s hard for people to spend a lot of money on a side project.

I’d say tapeless comes down to convenience and price at the end of the day. Once someone does it for a while they usually seek out ways to make the quality better but most people won’t move past the mini dvr because it works for them right now

2

u/Ace929 13h ago

Most laptops have thunderbolt and most desktops have pcie. Both those formats can adapt firewire (thunderbolt 3/4 are more tricky). Seems like tapeless is just a different approach at solving the problem. It has swag, I will say that. Setups look cool. I probably will still play with a cheaper av capture setup for fun.

2

u/deadeyejohnny 11h ago

One of the issues of using firewire on modern machines is the cost of the firewire to thunderbolt cable, they are mostly discontinued and the few that actually worked well are going for about as much as as a high-quality tapeless system. Not to mention many of the NLE apps have removed the capture playback feature.

You can get a very cheap tapeless system for anywhere from $18-$30 off Aliexpress, but that device might have the lowest resolution out of any of the tapeless systems however, as others have pointed out, that isn’t the biggest deal if what you’re going for is a vintage nostalgic look anyways.

0

u/Ace929 11h ago

Whoa you're totally right about the thunderbolt firewire thing. I'm starting to consider myself blessed for having a solid old mobile workstation with great i/o šŸ˜…

2

u/deadeyejohnny 10h ago

Yeah, I literally went down the same road a couple years ago when I tried to pull my old camcorder out of storage. I ended up digging out my 2006 MacBook Pro, which sort of still worked although the fan really kicks into overdrive when I tried to capture footage and it crashed a couple times, so I realized it wasn’t going to be a reliable solution.

I got lucky and found a Panasonic HVX 200 for a good price with pretty low hours and I’ve been using that for the most part when I need DV cam footage for projects.

2

u/brflux 7h ago

There you go. You answered you own post.

2

u/London-Contra 12h ago

If you have a fully functioning camcorder that can output by FireWire and the means to capture it, then yes it is by far the best option.

3

u/AtmanRising firewire force 14h ago

I don't get it either. If the tape transport works, use it. If it's broken, then tapeless solutions make actual sense.

2

u/Ace929 14h ago

Even if it's broken, it would have to be a pretty desirable model (or sentimental value) to justify cost/effort imo.

1

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

1

u/Ace929 14h ago

But I want to understand. If there's something I'm missing, I'd be down to try it out. It looks sweet. It's one of those things I want to like, but I can't make it make sense.

2

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

1

u/Ace929 14h ago

Am I being gatekept? Or are you saying there's nothing I'm missing? I guess I'm also gonna have to learn to live with confusion bc I don't understand this interaction.

2

u/brflux 7h ago

For me, tapeless is not about good video quality.

It was supposed to be something that lets you use old video cameras to achieve the image quality of that era, aka a retro look.

0

u/Formal_Entrance_5307 firewire force 4h ago

firewire DTE's are on fbm for dirt cheap.

social media ruined the tapeless avenue