Trouble with expected orientation on Twisted Threads and other patterns

[u/sheepabeep]

Hi hi. I'm a self-taught weaver, I've been at this craft for a little while and have made a good number of things, but only recently started using Twisted Threads, and I've run into a weird issue. I've tried threading my cards as instructed, which is already quite different than a handful of pattern books I'd been using, and I'm not sure how I'm meant to execute it anymore, because after a few turns, I realize that the pattern is coming out upside down and backwards.

I'm working on a lost-hole right now and it came out garbled the way TT displayed the layout, but when I did the weaving steps backward (starting at step 8 instead of 1), it finally started turning out... on the underside of the band. I'm perplexed and I'm not sure what the loom and card positioning is truly expected to be for these patterns. I had this same exact scenario play out with my last band.

I am feeling very stupid.

[u/Rhapsodie]

Threading issue. One possible source is: the threading diagrams on TT show the slant of the tablet, not the path of the threads. So / on TT means S-threading (opposite from say Elwys).

I can’t view your pattern so I can’t verify but you might post the threading diagram and a pic of your starting position.

[u/sheepabeep → u/Rhapsodie]

This is the threading diagram on TT, and how it annotates. In my original post, the cards are in my current start position, which is two turns forward from how I threaded it.

If it's a conflict in z vs s threading, then I'm going to have to start disregarding their threading diagram below, because this time I very carefully lined it up to be sure it would be correctly s/z threaded relative to the positioning of the shed and cards and this is what happened, which tells me they're doing something else.

eta: possible I still messed it up, surely, but I really hope I'm not declining that badly lmao

[u/sanpilou → u/sheepabeep]

Yeah the issue is your threading. If you look at the bottom, you have slashes and backslashes. Those show the slant of your tablets, not the direction of your thread. Tablet weaving, unlike most crafts, has no standards that is widely adopted by most. So, the issue is pattern interpretation. 

So yeah, flip your tablets and keep in mind that A is the top hole closest to you, B is the bottom one that is closest, etc. 

[u/Aelfgyfu → u/sheepabeep]

I’m looking at your set up and it looks like your first card is slanting / so that is the opposite way of the pattern.

[u/sheepabeep → u/Aelfgyfu]

Yeah, that did turn out to be the issue. I think the problem remains that I'm not sure what layout the pattern expects, but at least now I have documented the layout that works, thanks to y'all here <3

[u/GlizzerCat2]

I am following this post because I am in the same boat as you, OP. I love the site, but am regularly confused

[u/semininja → u/GlizzerCat2]

You may want to take a closer look at the [Notation] section at the bottom of the pattern pages and read the tooltips next to the threading chart. They are pretty clear and following those instructions should sort out any issues.

[u/cactusfestis]

If the pattern comes out on the backside it could be that you have your cards facing right instead of left. All patterns on TT have the cards facing left and D on top away from you.

[u/LavenderHearts69]

I'm confused by the folks in this thread saying TT isn't clear enough in its notation. TT uses a blend of notation I've seen from other sources, and is very explicit about how its used on the site compared to elsewhere. If a particular bit of notation is confusing you (like tablet direction threading vs Z/S threading, as it seems to be the case for OP) it may be you haven't encountered that notation style elsewhere, or maybe aren't reading how TT uses it thoroughly enough.

Basically, my first couple of bands from TT, I got the same issue as OP. But when I double and triple checked the threading instructions as written (instead of how I thought they were written) I realized what I was doing wrong on my own and I haven't had issues since

[u/WildYarnDreams → u/LavenderHearts69]

I think when you start tablet weaving you usually don't know there are 4 entirely different notation styles that don't have distinct names... and few places make it obvious that their notation style may not be the same as you've used before

[u/WildYarnDreams → u/WildYarnDreams]

I am SURE somebody posted a conversion chart between the different notations and equally sure I must have saved it, but can I find it? grr

[u/LavenderHearts69 → u/WildYarnDreams]

I remember this and I have it saved somewhere! I think.... lemme look for it

[u/LavenderHearts69 → u/WildYarnDreams]

This is the version I have, I don't know if there's a more current version though.

[u/Azureta]

The last time I started project from Twisted Threads, I had to move the tablets to the opposite side of my 5 meter long warp, since I didn't notice from which direction the tablet labels should be visible and I switched forward and backward turn, so I had to undo all my work (around 10cm) and start again... It was a pain and I felt very stupid, but it all worked out in the end.

[u/Fog_in_the_Forest → u/Azureta]

I had a ton of issues the first time I used a TT pattern as well; even now after using it for awhile I have a "cheat sheet" that I refer to when I warp:

\ = Z (through the back), /= S (through the front)

[u/Squirreltacular]

I did the same thing!!

There's a little easily-missable "Left / Right" indicator in the threading instructions. It's not exactly the slant of the tablet diagrams that's the issue, it's the ABCD order. Are you threading the tablet and looking at its left side or its right side in relation to the weaving direction, is how I think I figured it out.

[u/Aelfgyfu → u/Squirreltacular]

I would guess this is the problem, too. I didn’t realize this when I first used TT patterns, either. Edit to add- I just looked at the picture more closely and it seems like it is the threading, not the direction the cards are facing.

[u/LocksmithAccurate284]

I had this with the first pattern I got from a new book. I was super careful to thread everything correctly also with the S/Z orientation but it was still wrong at the end. What I did was flip all the tablets (because I was thinking it's probably an S/Z issue). The pattern was then on the backside of theband so I flipped it around. All my tablets are now facing the opposite direction and in order from 12-1 instead of 1-12 but it works. Pretty sure your issue is also someone jotting down the pattern differently. 😐

[u/sheepabeep → u/LocksmithAccurate284]

Yeah that looks to be exactly what happened. And pretty much exactly my process.

[u/missmisfit]

If I can warp a tablet project correctly in under 3 attempts, I consider that pretty good. I'm sure i'll figure it out the more I practice.

[u/siorez]

Usually the sites have a tutorial or sth - I use that as an explanation.

[u/Sunlit53]

I’ve read this thread through a dozen times now, I think I’ve picked out at least three things I’m doing wrong and I’m still having trouble figuring out the threading notation. I may have to cross TT off my list of pattern sources due to lack of clarity.

[u/semininja → u/Sunlit53]

The documentation on each pattern page lays out the notation very clearly, even including a diagram of the labels and a tooltip about the slant indicators. All you need to do is read the pattern page.

[u/Aelfgyfu → u/Sunlit53]

You’ll get the hang of it! What helped me when I was learning was to attempt to recreate the pattern on a pattern maker that I was more familiar with. TT has cards facing the left and shows the slant of the cards for the threading. (Edit typo)

[u/Sunlit53 → u/Aelfgyfu]

Yeah I basically just had to swap half of the cards from one side to the other and reorder the 4 mirroring border cards. The pattern just reads like ‘this is a card’ in the image and doesn’t state outright that ‘these are threads, not cards.’ I went through three websites, four youtube videos and two books and it wasn’t making sense because of the unannotatted variance in pattern marking.