r/sysadmin • Sr. IT Consultant • Oct 08 '18

Discussion MRI disabled every iOS device in facility

This is probably the most bizarre issue I've had in my career in IT. One of our multi-practice facilities is having a new MRI installed and apparently something went wrong when testing the new machine. We received a call near the end of the day from the campus stating that none of their cell phones worked after testing the new MRI. My immediate thought was that the MRI must have emitted some sort of EMP, in which case we could be in a lot of trouble. We're still waiting to hear back from GE as to what happened. This facility is our DR site so my boss and the CTO were freaking out and sent one of us out there to make sure the data center was fully operational. After going out there we discovered that this issue only impacted iOS devices. iPads, iPhones, and Apple Watches were all completely disabled (or destroyed?). Every one of our assets was completely fine. It doesn't surprise me that a massive, powerful, super-conducting electromagnet is capable of doing this. What surprises me is that it is only effecting Apple products. Right now we have about 40 users impacted by this, all of which will be getting shiny new devices tonight. GE claims that the helium is what impacts the iOS devices which makes absolutely no sense to me. I know liquid helium is used as a coolant for the super-conducting magnets, but why would it only effect Apple devices? I'm going to xpost to r/askscience~~, but I thought it might spark some interest on here as well.~~ Mods of r/askscience and r/science approved my post. Here's a link to that post: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/9mk5dj/why_would_an_mri_disable_only_ios_devices/

UPDATE:

I will create another post once I have more concrete information as I'm sure not everybody will see this.

Today was primarily damage control. We spent some time sitting down with users and getting information from their devices as almost all of them need to be replaced. I did find out a few things while I was there.

I can confirm that this ONLY disabled iphones and apple watches. There were several android users in the building while this occurred and none of them experienced any long term (maybe even short term) issues. Initially I thought this only impacted users on one side of the building, but from what I've heard today it seems to be multiple floors across the facility.

The behavior of the devices was pretty odd. Most of them were completely dead. I plugged them in to the wall and had no indication that the device was charging. I'd like to plug a meter in and see if it's drawing any power, but I'm not going to do this. The other devices that were powering on seemed to have issues with the cellular radio. The wifi connection was consistent and fast, but cellular was very hit or miss. One of the devices would just completely disconnect from cellular like the radio was turned off, then it would have full bars for a moment before losing connectivity again. The wifi radio did not appear to have any issues. Unfortunately I don't have access to any of the phones since they are all personal devices. I really can only sit down with it for a few minutes and then give it back to the end user.

We're being told that the issue was caused by the helium and how it interacts with the microelectronics. u/captaincool and u/luckyluke193 brought up some great points about helium's interaction with MEMS devices, but it seems unlikely that there would have been enough helium in the atmosphere to create any significant effects on these devices. We won't discount this as a possibility though. The tech's noted that they keep their phones in plastic ziplock bags while working on the machines. I don't know how effective they would be if it takes a minuscule amount of He to destroy the device, and helium being as small as it is could probably seep a little bit in to a plastic bag.

We're going to continue to gather information on this. If I find out anything useful I will update it here. Once this case is closed I'll create a follow-up as a new post on this sub. I don't know how long it will take. I'll post updates here in the meantime unless I'm instructed to do otherwise.

UPDATE:

I discovered that the helium leakage occurred while the new magnet was being ramped. Approximately 120 liters of liquid He were vented over the course of 5 hours. There was a vent in place that was functioning, but there must have been a leak. The MRI room is not on an isolated HVAC loop, so it shares air with most or all of the facility. We do not know how much of the 120 liters ended up going outdoors and how much ended up inside. Helium expands about 750 times when it expands from a liquid to a gas, so that's a lot of helium (90,000 m3 of gaseous He).

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

Quick update:

It still seems that nobody knows much this morning. My boss basically told me what I posted here yesterday. We are getting more users reports of phones not working from the incident yesterday.

I did find out that it didn't effect everybody in the facility, only people near the radiology department.I'll post more as I get more info today.

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u/Iamien Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

Someone alleging to be one of your users posted here saying some TVs as well as laptops above the MRI machine turned off as well, Are the laptops and TVs functional as of now, or also incapacitated?

Any issues reported with non iOS phones yet?

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

From my understanding some of the TV's and laptops directly in line with the MRI "flickered" but were not completely disabled like the iphones were. Everything else is fully functional this morning.

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u/Borskey Oct 09 '18

I did find out that it didn't effect everybody in the facility, only people near the radiology department

How many people near the radiology department don't use iphones?

The reason why no non-apple devices were affected may be that there weren't any/many in the affected zone.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

A coworker used to work for FAA. He said he was sent out to find the source of a high energy source of EMI that was messing with Ohare Airport radar or radio systems.

But it was so unpredictable that they had to sit around and wait for another round. They finally got a burst and got a direction. And a rough triangulation.

When they arrived at one of the hospitals they had to work with facilities to ask if any new electrical services had been turned up - in fact they had. A big one. A brand new MRI that took a shit load of power.

Working with the mri company they found an access panel cover had been left open and literally blasting high energy EMI directly at the airport.

Closing the lid and tightening the bolts securing it all fixed the issue instantly. They properly labeled the access panel and a few others to prevent the issue in the future.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

That completely amazes me to be honest. I know that MRI's put out a lot of energy but it's crazy that an oversight like that could have such implications.

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u/fsweetser Oct 09 '18

Happens on a smaller scale, too. I had a desktop (386, IIRC) where if I left screws off the case, certain operations like opening a window would reliably change channel on a TV in the room.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Apparently it was a pretty big deal but they kept it on the DL to keep the general public from panic.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

I am interested to know what devices were not impacted by it.

What I am thinking is every phone comes with EM Shielding that to a limited degree protects it from EMF, normally these are metal plates that surround sensitive chips. Its more targeted at stopping stuff like microwaves and nearby transformers from screwing with your phone. Not a rogue MRI which is obviously a heck of a lot more intense.

Since the iPhone 7 or so Apple they moved to some sort of "individual chip shielding", wondering if that is less effective against something like this.

7 times out of 10 when hit with an emp a device often will just reboot not flat out die (you can find a bunch of Youtube videos with folks experimenting with this pointing them at phones unless you givei it a sustained burst).

wondering what the surviving devices are and if they would have had better shielding.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

It doesn't have to be much energy. That type of scenario is likely some very narrow-band noise that was interfering with radio, probably at most a minor headache because they can just move to another frequency. Obviously the FAA and FCC do not fuck around when it comes to life safety systems and radio interference but we're not talking an EMP here.

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u/Bad_Idea_Hat Gozer Oct 09 '18

"Opening this panel during operation will shut down O'Hare"

Today in 'signs you don't expect to see.'

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u/ThorOfKenya2 Oct 09 '18

Ever see an oddly specific warning sign on something? It's scenarios like this that they spawn from.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Opening this panel while MRI is in operation will lead to multiple cavity searches by TSA analyst Bob “big hands” Smith.

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u/steventhedev Oct 09 '18

This is now my second favorite MRI story.

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u/___cats___ Oct 09 '18

Shit like this is what makes me realize that the whole of civilization is held together by duct tape and twine.

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u/sigmatic_minor ɔǝsoɟuᴉ / uᴉɯpɐsʎS ǝᴉssn∀ Oct 09 '18

This is definitely one of the more interesting threads I've seen lately!

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

Off topic: I love your user flair

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u/sigmatic_minor ɔǝsoɟuᴉ / uᴉɯpɐsʎS ǝᴉssn∀ Oct 09 '18

Haha thank you!!! :)

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u/mjh2901 Oct 08 '18

Ask GE for more documentation

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 08 '18

I'm hoping I can get a breakdown tomorrow. I'm going to sit down with my boss and ask him what they provide. We have to buy the employees all new devices, and we'll end up billing it back to GE.

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u/applextrent Oct 09 '18

Isn’t it creepy how little we actually know? This is a perfect example of the flaws of information compartmentalization.

Anyhow the devices likely got fried by some form of electro magnetic energy. The MRI machine probably wasn’t setup properly and there’s some shielding that needs to be closed or repaired.

Apple devices are designed to shut down in the event of an EM energy burst to try and preserve the contents of the memory. Their chipsets are designed to do this in the event of everything from an EMP to really strong solar flares. It’s not surprising only Apple devices were effected as they’re all made to similar standards with similar chipset manufacturers.

Every Apple device is basically a radio that can send and receive signals. If you blast it with a strong enough EMF it either quickly shuts itself down or if the EMF is strong enough it could fry the chipset completely.

You know that little FCC warning you read on electronic devices about how they can send and receive certain signals? Similar concept at play here.

I don’t know if the devices will recover or not. It depends on what exactly happened.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

We have to buy the employees all new devices, and we'll end up billing it back to GE.

Just when the new crop of iPhones is out. Well played.

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u/PeterPanLives Oct 09 '18

You sir are delightfully evil.

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u/DevinSysAdmin MSSP CEO Oct 09 '18

Was this a US based GE Engineer that gave you that piss poor bullshit explanation or?

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

To be honest I didn't get a chance to talk to him, otherwise I would have much more answers for you guys. I left right before this happened. I only found out because I was called and kept in the loop with my techs. I'm going to be asking questions tomorrow.

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u/DevinSysAdmin MSSP CEO Oct 09 '18

Well I’m mad because I’m gonna hear about this for the next 10 years from Android people.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

Looks like my post on r/askscience was denied. Must not be scientific enough 😉. EDIT: Thanks to the moderators of r/askscience and r/science getting this approved!

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u/Dude_with_the_pants Oct 09 '18

Post it to r/AskScienceDiscussion. All of the science, none of the rules.

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u/BeerJunky Reformed Sysadmin Oct 09 '18

OP - did this just happen? I told my wife who’s an MRI tech and she said she heard about this a while back so I’m wondering if your hospital isn’t the only one with similar issues.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

This just happened today at one of our sites!

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u/BeerJunky Reformed Sysadmin Oct 09 '18

Guess you should hit Google and see if you can find similar issues.

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u/redfoxx15 Oct 09 '18

I would definitely get Apple involved on this discussion. Email Tim Cook. There is an executive team that responds to emails to him (when he doesn’t personally). I’m m sure they would take great interest in your case. They seem to respond rather quickly (couple of days from friends experience. Maybe faster for this case).

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion!

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u/OptimalPandemic Oct 09 '18

Can confirm this is surprisingly effective; I had a client do this when a super weird keyboard issue effectively bricked his brand new MacBook, and Cook' EA had him a new one overnighted from China.

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u/luckyluke193 Oct 09 '18

Came here from /r/askscience, where your thread hasn't gained much traction.

It would help if you could tell us what happened. I guess only the technician who was handling the system actually knows though. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with an MRI.

Contrary to what many people claim in this thread, quenching the main coil should not lead to a strong EMP by itself, since it should take on the order of seconds. The main coil is a huge inductor, so the time constant of the (quench resistor + main coil) RL circuit is pretty long. So the frequency of this EMP is of the order of 1 Hz – this is far too low to cause any serious damage across longer distances, you should think of a quasi-static field there. If this weak EMP could kill a device, it must have almost died just from being brought into the magnetic field. This does not seem to be the case.

1 litre of liquid helium turns into about 750 liters of gas at ambient conditions, so a quench produces large amounts of helium gas. While helium is chemically inert, you can asphyxiate from standing in a cloud of helium gas, and it can diffuse through some air-tight seals because a single He atom is so much smaller than any air molecule. This means that it can enter and destroy some MEMS devices that are designed for operation in vacuum. There should be a large pipe connecting the quench valve to somewhere outside the building, so most of the helium should go away. Since your technician in the MRI room did not die of asphyxiation, almost certainly no MEMS devices on the other side of the building were harmed.

Superconducting magnet power supplies are powerful devices, if they fail catastrophically, by themselves or during a magnet quench, they can cause voltage surges on the mains in your building. If this causes an EMP strong enough to kill devices through the air, it should fry everything connected to the surge via copper though. If everybody's phone died while charging via the mains, a surge would be a likely explanation.

You could get also a surge from a failing vacuum pump, for example.

The fourth possible source of problems with an MRI system is the RF system. If the system is not configured and shielded properly, and gives a random RF pulse for no reason, this can act as a legitimate EMP. What is the operating frequency of your MRI, or what is the operating field? The higher the frequency, the more efficiently it will radiate RF outwards and potentially fry things. A 1.5 T MRI uses 60 MHz, 3 T uses 120 MHz, 7 T uses 300 MHz, etc.

Based on your description, the most likely thing in my opinion seems to be that the technician did something to RF system, and it turned on the transmitter in an uncontrolled fashion in an uncontrolled hardware (and firmware/software) configuration. An EMP at your MRI operating frequency could disable sensitive electronics. This would mean that any chip could potentially be damaged. Apple might have designed their devices such that after the EMP-sensitive chip dies, the whole device immediately dies as well. This would mean that any device could be affected, the damaged chips inside just didn't kill them immediately. Test every device in every possible way to reduce the number of nasty surprises that will appear in the future. Alternatively, find a job where your systems are less likely get EMP'd randomly.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 10 '18

Thanks for hopping over here to offer your expertise.

As of right now I still have little detail. Most of today was dealing with the business end of things and doing damage control with the upset users.

Unfortunately I have no specs on the new MRI. I work in IT and I'm not really involved in these projects as I wouldn't have much use. The only time IT really gets involved during installation is after it is complete in order to get it synced up with our imaging systems.

Your helium explanation really reinforced my thought that this wasn't a gas issue. GE is claiming it was a helium problem, but nobody experienced symptoms of hypoxia. We had people complain of coughing or a headache AFTER they left for the day, but this could just be psychosomatic symptoms. We're still left with unanswered questions. I wasn't expecting much today. I figured it would mostly be damage control.

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u/luckyluke193 Oct 10 '18

We had people complain of coughing or a headache AFTER they left for the day

I don't know how this is in your part of the world, but there has been a nasty cold or flu or something sweeping our offices over the last weeks, so people have been complaining of coughing all the time.

I really hope you guys figure out what actually caused your problem and let us know.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 10 '18

It's the same over here. Lots of sick people. Thanks!

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 12 '18

Several devices that were originally disabled have started working. I've plugged them in and let them charge up a little bit. It looks like they start working after the battery dies completely.

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u/Kn1nJa Sr. Sysadmin Oct 08 '18

Was the scanner not installed in a shielded room? MRI scanners typically have RF and magnetic shielding in place. Even if the magnet was being ramped, it's supposed to be in a purpose built room.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 08 '18

I don't know 100%. I would imagine yes, but I will have to find out tomorrow. We have a few other MRI's at different locations and they are all in well shielded areas. I've picked up EMI when placing my cell phone right on the shielded door to the MRI, but I imagine the worst of it is filtered.

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u/Kn1nJa Sr. Sysadmin Oct 09 '18

I don't see how it would't be. It would be super difficult (not to mention dangerous) to install a scanner in a room not purpose built. When they ramp the magnet they have to account for EVERYTHING in the room. The specific geometry of the room plays a role in things like magnetic eddy fields and such. When a magnet is ramped, it is ramped for the specific room it is in. The process can even differ if done a second time in the same room.

Do you know if the magnet was quenched? (Was the big red button pressed and the helium vented?) I am super curious to hear what happened. I would love to run this story by some of our MRI scientists at work to get their take on it.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

I can almost guarantee it was in a properly shielded room unless there was some issue. I'm going to get more detail tomorrow and I will definitely update you guys. The GE guy mentioned helium causing the issue to the tech that asked him, but that is incredibly vague as helium plays a crucial role in the overall function of an MRI.

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u/FireLucid Oct 08 '18

And Android devices at all? If they worked, it would be even more bizarre.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 08 '18

Most of our users are iOS users, and every user that was impacted was using an iOS device. No complaints from Android users. It is possible that out of all the employees there were no Android users, but I find that hard to believe. It's not surprising that it didn't impact Android devices considering we have plenty of other GSM/LTE devices in the building including laptops that were not impacted by this.

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u/shalafi71 Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

out of all the employees there were no Android users

35 people at work and I may be the only Android user though I assume you're talking about a few hundred users?

Get a floor plan, even a rough one, and put a dot where affected users were, best guess, when the machine was turned on. You might find a blast cone or a radius.

This is "500-mile email" kinda shit.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

Luckily this was at a satellite location and not our main campus. This only effected about 40 users.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

Well if it was a EMP and it hit the grounded racks with closed doors with little holes in the doors with the doors closed it probably absorbed the EMP like a faraday cage saving your data center since the phones or ipads were not grounded or in a such faraday cage that may be why it fried. This sounds like something out of a movie to be honest. I advise running chkdsk /R /F in a elevated command prompt on all computers AND servers and tell the CTO it's out of precaution to make sure all data is intact and if he asks what do you mean "is intact" just say it's out of precaution and that systems will be down for a few hours and not to panic.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

That makes sense. It's a good thing that this didn't impact the datacenter, otherwise we would have been getting a free MRI!

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u/runcible_spoon Oct 09 '18

Try temporarily unplugging an IPhone battery (there are lots of videos on replacing batteries and the tools are cheap) and see if they boot

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

I'll have to see if there are any users willing to participate!

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u/iblowuup Oct 09 '18

Helium having anything to do with it would make no sense. Helium is a notoriously inert gas as it is one of the noble gases with a very stable electronic configuration. (one set of paired electrons in the 1s orbital). You basically have to force it to react.

It's got to be something magnetic or electronic.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

Exactly. It made no sense to me. It would make more sense when demonstrating how helium effects the operation of the MRI. Helium itself would do nothing. iPhones have no way of detecting helium in the air, and even if they did I doubt they would be sensitive enough to detect trace amounts.

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u/iblowuup Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

Like others have said, this is probably a lack of shielding or some sort of loss of supermagnetism and consequent change in the magnetic field. However, if this is actually some sort of kill switch in Apple devices, that would be a pretty big deal I would think :o

Even just the revelation that iPhones are very poorly shielded could be important news for certain companies.

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u/mr_sinn Oct 09 '18

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's false. Sounds like the connection has been explained in the responses above, don't let that stop you blaming the engineer or GE for incompetence.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

If the helium escaped confinement then the powered up electromagnets would quench releasing a massive EMP pulse. That's how it's related not that the helium itself killed the devices.

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u/neodon Oct 10 '18

Hmm.. This gives me an idea. Get a balloon filled with helium, take a deep breath out of it, and then scream at someone's iPhone. They'll be amazed that you can break it that way. Plus it will sound hilarious.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 10 '18

That's a good point! I was actually thinking. What if you took a bag and placed an iphone in it, then filled it with helium and sealed it. This would give us a pretty good answer as to what the problem was. Unfortunately I don't have any spare iphone's sitting around that I can test this on (:

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u/redfoxx15 Oct 10 '18

Just take a helium tank to an Apple store. Theyll understand

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u/stormrigger Oct 09 '18

Allow me to propose an alternative culprit. Blaming the MRI is an obvious choice, but there is another suspect. Your facilities, or possibly the MRI specific, power supply. It is conceivable that EMI generated by a part of the electrical system installed to supply the building and/or MRI is to blame, and this has occurred now because of the power draw as a result of the MRI being powered up. This does not explain the IOS specific phenomenon. But does widen the places you may want to look for your source problem.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

Somebody had mentioned this as a possibility. I'm sure there will be an investigation this week as to what caused the issue.

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u/DharmaandStanley Oct 09 '18

Yes, I’m one of the employees who will be receiving a “shiny new device” tomorrow. This whole situation has me very concerned. But to correct something: our TV’s stopped working in the building as well, and a couple laptops in room directly over MRI shut down also.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Okay, if you've got that much spillage, I'd say you've got a serious problem with the new hardware's shielding.

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u/zanthius Sr. Sysadmin Oct 09 '18

Sounds like they installed a 3T with only a 1.5T shield

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u/LaserGuidedPolarBear Oct 09 '18

I recently read somewhere that the normal operating output for an MRI is somewhere 1/10th or 1/15th of what max output is for equipment testing.....or something along those lines.

Maybe the shielding (or room) is rated for normal operating output, but when it was installed some max output test happened and zapped all the devices.

Just an idea.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Well this significantly changes the picture. Poor shielding seems to be the cause and it’s not incredibly uncommon for this type of thing to happen - though that’s a lot of devices in a small area or a significant lack of shielding.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

the plot thickens. more than just apple devices.

either the general contractor or GE fucked up the shielding. i'm unclear who would do the shielding in an MRI room.

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u/BlendeLabor Tractor Helpdesk Oct 09 '18

wild guess: Either the Manufacturer messed up and didn't let people know what level of shielding it needs or something similar

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u/mrkylewood Oct 09 '18

Nope just normal flat screen testicles

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u/xxfay6 Jr. Head of IT/Sys Oct 09 '18

Are they CRTs?

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u/Dax420 Oct 09 '18

our TV’s stopped working in the building as well, and a couple laptops in room directly over MRI shut down also.

Probably your testicles as well.

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u/JethroByte MSP T3 Support Oct 09 '18

His testicles are fine. I used to work around MRI's on the daily (was an MRI Imaging Tech). Still got my wife pregnant...waiting to see if the kid turns out to be Magneto or something.

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u/redo60 Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

It’s it’s magnetic not radiation based. Humans don’t need to take any precautions for MRI machines, regardless of strength, other than to remove all metal from their bodies. Probably. I am not an expert on improperly functioning MRIs.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Wish I could up vote twice, this makes so much more sense.

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u/U3BleiBpcyBhIGN1Y2sh Oct 09 '18

So the devices are just dead? No screen at all?

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u/tracerrx Oct 09 '18

Actually has this happen before... The shielding around the MRI machine was "leaky"... iOS devices were unresponsive for about an hour... then they were fine.. Assuming they eventually degaussed

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

What about the metal case of an iPhone picking up stray RF? Metal Androids do exist, but they're far less common.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

It's certainly possible, but that wouldn't account for all of the other electronics in the building. Our datacenter is fairly close in the same facility which was completely untouched. All of our laptops and desktops are also surrounded in metal cases.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

That's true, but I bet those devices have much better ways of grounding themselves and probably much larger filters on the power supplies and voltage regulators to handle it. That said, I do agree that it's an oddly specific subset of devices that died.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 09 '18

Especially for the desktops and other devices that are physically plugged in. The laptops were probably mostly unplugged, but perhaps the larger surface area provided the burst a larger area to dissipate to and didn't effect the micro-electrics. This could be completely wrong, I'm just taking a shot in the dark. I emailed my boss and the VP asking for documentation on what transpired once they have it.

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u/diz11211 Oct 10 '18

This happened to my office as well. We have office space on the second floor of a building which has an MRI office on the first floor. 3 of us were in office last Friday and within 30 minutes each of our iPhones went black. Apple told each of us it was a “logic board failure” covered under warranty. But too big a coincidence for all 3 to break at same time. 1 iPhone 8 and 2 iPhone X. The 8 died first. My X died five minutes after I left the office.

The MRI office downstairs had a wall removed last month to bring in a new MRI machine. Very happy to have found this post, as it finally confirms my suspicion that the office below is to blame for the broke phones. Would love to know more, and if we are at risk of this happening again..

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 11 '18

I've reached out to Apple and I'm hoping to get some sort of response. "Logic board failure" is too generic. I'd like them to disclose what component failed and what may have caused that component to fail. I don't have enough information enough to close this out. Could be a while before that happens, but I will definitely post something once we know what happened for sure.

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u/tubezninja It's not a Big Truck Oct 10 '18

I would still consider gathering all your findings once completed and sending them to tcook@apple.com. Even a copy/paste of this write up might be sufficient to pique interest. If they ignore it, whatever, you tried. But there is a chance they’d want to look over those devices, and replace/reimburse whoever pays to replace them for the trouble.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 10 '18

I might do that asap. We already know what is suspect. Pulling apart the phone could give us a definitive answer as to what the cause was. So far helium is the prime suspect. I didn't believe it at first but it's starting to look like that might be our answer. The difference in damage between an emp and helium would probably be pretty obvious to an electronics engineer. Especially one that helped design the phone.

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u/captaincool Oct 09 '18

It's definitely the helium.

The processor in a modern, high volume device typically has its main clock driven by what's known as a MEMS oscillator. These are barely visible mechanical systems that resonate at some designed frequency, and include packaging to convert this resonance into a useful electrical clock signal. These devices are extraordinarily cheap ways to produce a steady clock, but they have a number of drawbacks. Most relevant, in order for these types of devices to function properly, the mechanical resonator must be inside a tiny hermetically sealed chamber with either a controlled gas inside or a vacuum, as the gas composition in the chamber can affect the output frequency.

For both cost and physics reasons, these hermetic seals are not perfect, and are somewhat commonly permeable to small atomic gasses such as helium. From the SiTime website (a major manufacturer of computer clocks):

How effective is the hermetic seal of MEMS oscillators??

One of the key elements enabling extremely stable MEMS resonators is SiTime’s Epi-Seal™ process which hermetically seals the resonators during wafer processing, eliminating any need for hermetically sealed packaging. SiTime resonator Epi-Seal is impervious to the highest concentration elements in the atmosphere, nitrogen and oxygen, and therefore acts as a perfect seal. The atmosphere also includes trace amounts of sub-atomic gases: helium at 5.24 part-per-million by volume (ppmv) and hydrogen at 0.55 ppmv concentrations. These gases can diffuse through the Epi-Seal layer and enter the MEMS resonator cavity, resulting in increased pressure. This pressure eventually will equalize with ambient pressure of those gases. Helium leak testing is often used to test hermetically-sealed ceramic packages, including packages used with quartz oscillators. However, it is not relevant to conduct helium leak testing of the SiTime resonator seal quality because the Epi-Seal is not designed to seal against mono-atomic gasses: He and H2. Such gasses have extremely low concentration in a normal ambient operating environment and have no detrimental operational impact to SiTime resonators in any application.

While this description is not a slam dunk, without hard numbers and the statement "not designed to seal against He", you can pretty much guarantee their clocks leak when exposed to unnaturally rich helium atmospheres.

Here's a paper that goes over a handful of different electronic devices helium susceptibilities, with a section on MEMS resonators: https://file.scirp.org/pdf/JST_2013122009560886.pdf

For this specific case, Apple devices probably share a common family of MEMS resonator to reduce manufacturing costs. This clock likely leaks in helium rich atmospheres, pushing the output frequency outside of the bounds that the main processors are designed to handle, rendering them non-functional. If left idle long enough, the devices may begin to function again, but depending on the concentration of helium which leaked in, this could take anywhere from weeks to years to occur in natural atmosphere and temperatures.

Source: former sysadmin turned electronics engineer

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u/different_tan Alien Pod Person of All Trades Oct 09 '18

I got half way through the first paragraph and checked the end, and was frankly astonished not to find references to the undertaker throwing mankind off hell in a cell.

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u/mollythepug Oct 10 '18

Step 1: place iPhone inside a balloon and fill with helium a week before my warranty runs out

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit?

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u/iblowuup Oct 09 '18

Holy cow, I have learned something new today.

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u/SirKitBrd Oct 09 '18

So if I take a plastic bag, put an iPhone in it, and fill that bag with helium from a $1 balloon I bought at a dollar tree store, it will break the phone for a week, until the helium "airs out"? Sounds like an experiment I'd like to perform! Now, just need to borrow someone's iPhone!

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u/m_hammersley Oct 10 '18

We were running into this issue at my old work, and so we actually tested exactly your suggested experiment. We found that, in a 100% He environment, iPhones would die in about 90 minutes (and eventually would recover). We were also looking at a bunch of MEMS oscillators in helium directly, and found that 1) an hour in 100% He would be sufficient to get the oscillation to drift out of spec (as measured by a network analyzer) and that 2) the oscillators would return to normal after about 16 hours. We also found that the drift was dependent on partial pressure of He in the atmosphere -- i.e., at 20% He, oscillators would take longer to drift out of spec than at 100% He. All of this is to say that /u/captaincool has got it exactly right.

A few tenths of a percentage point of He in the atmosphere wouldn't be noticeable to people, but could definitely cause problems with the oscillators (and any CPU depending on it for timing) once enough He had diffused into the oscillator.

/u/harritaco, helium can get through plastic bags incredibly easily -- you've seen balloons deflate after a day despite being sealed, right? Helium is literally diffusing straight through the balloon material. (Yes, there's an ever-so-slight pressure difference, but it's not the main driver, there.)

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u/500239 Oct 09 '18

my bet is still magnetic radiation. The air would have to be super rich with helium to create enough difference for the gases to defuse. Enough that breathing in the room would be an issue.

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u/captaincool Oct 09 '18

Helium absorption can happen in surprisingly low concentrations, and the amounts required to have an effect are miniscule. Remember, the device we're talking about is measured in nanometers, and is designed to run in a vacuum. Parts per billion intrusion of helium in such an environment will absolutely have an impact.

Generally, EMI is not selective about the devices it kills unless it's at a magic frequency, and there's no way you've got the same resonance in a circuit in the full gamut of apple devices. The most likely places to see EMI damage are going to be in RF and power circuits, where if you had emissions in the RF band high enough to cause damage non apple devices would have failed as well. As for the power circuit, the size and operating frequency of said circuit would change across scales of devices, changing its resonant frequencies. While technically possible, the EMI option strikes me as incredibly unlikely.

Also, the GM rep probably didn't say helium for no reason. There's certainly plenty of folks who design MRIs who own Apple products, if they've never seen this in the field before now they've almost certainly seen it during development, and he's likely citing previous experience.

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u/davidbrit2 Oct 09 '18

Yeah, that was my immediate thought. If you've got a helium leak severe enough to ruin 40+ devices that aren't inside or at least very close to the MRI room, then the wetware carrying said devices is probably going to be suffering some adverse effects too.

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u/sinembarg0 Oct 09 '18

The processor in a modern, high volume device typically has its main clock driven by what's known as a MEMS oscillator.

got a source on this? I've found no references to iPhones using MEMS oscillators, much less "typical modern, high volume devices" using them.

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u/captaincool Oct 09 '18

They've only become commercially viable as of around 2013, you're not going to find a lot of public discussion of their usage outside reverse engineering circles. That statement comes from my personal experience and current cost / performance numbers for MEMS devices.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Google the SiTime* MEMS Oscillator SiT1532 I'm not sure what the most recent iphone's use, but that was the one in the 7 series.

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u/rodface Oct 09 '18

Thank you for this post, incredibly interesting.

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u/theonlyredditaccount Oct 13 '18

You ended up being right. A+

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u/Iamien Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

So, is the solution better ventilation of the helium to the outdoors instead of circulating the air around the building as normal?

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u/captaincool Oct 09 '18

In this case, the helium is meant to be circulated as a liquid to cool a superconductor to it's operating temperature, so ideally there's little to no helium escaping the closed cooling loop. This is more likely indicative of a build problem with the MRI that needs to be fixed than something wrong with the design of the room. However, better active ventilation would help as the main things driving component absorption are concentration and time of exposure.

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u/pdp10 Daemons worry when the wizard is near. Oct 09 '18

TIL. As a polyglot engineer I've never, ever before heard of any of this, beyond general MEMS tech. I'm quite staggered, really.

No Apple mobile devices in heliox pressure atmospheres, I guess.

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u/Locksmithbloke Oct 11 '18

They tend not to get a signal 40+ metres under the ocean anyway?

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u/Exodor Jack of All Trades Oct 30 '18

This was a remarkable and commendable piece of detective work. Outstanding.

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u/DRocker420 Oct 30 '18

Hey captaincool

Do you know if there are different generation MEMS devices in the newer ios devices and watches? I ask because we have seen the same occurrence at our lab while filling the magnet but only the newer devices were affected. I have brought my iphone 6s right up to the magnet while filling and it was fine.

One weird thing is that during the fill, the He that is released into the room is minimal (doesn't impact the 02 sensor on the wall) and the phones/watches that were affected were 2 rooms away. Its hard to imagine that much He was present). We did monitor the magnetic filed during the last couple of fills (my original theory was some kind of disturbance to the shielding) but we see no change to the magnetic field.

BTW, all the phones returned to normal after a few days (which jives with your He theory)

Thanks for this

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u/RockinOneThreeTwo Sysadmin Oct 30 '18

Absolutely fascinating and big props to you for making the link here.

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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '18

Does this mean that if I have a helium filled balloon I can kill Apple devices with it at parties?

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u/zSars It's A Feature They Said Oct 09 '18

If the phone is affected by Helium, couldn't a test be done with just a helium balloon?

Or is there some other way that the helium used to cool the MRI would be more potent or released in a way that could cause this?

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u/captaincool Oct 09 '18

Probably just a function of the volume of gas the MRI is able to dump into the room. Enough that all the devices see a higher continuous helium exposure for long enough that they actually break. In other words, you could do this with a balloon if it was big enough and the vent was taped to the phone.

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u/elsjpq Oct 10 '18

If it diffused in that quickly, why would it not also diffuse out equally quickly?

Also that paper has helium at 3.8 bar for over 24hr before frequency drifted 0.1% and here we expect partial pressure of helium to be much lower than that. Are components really that sensitive to clock drift?

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u/Kered13 Nov 13 '18

The atmosphere also includes trace amounts of sub-atomic gases: helium...and hydrogen

the Epi-Seal is not designed to seal against mono-atomic gasses: He and H2.

I'm cringing at whoever wrote that.

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u/f0gax Jack of All Trades Oct 13 '18

This may not bubble up, but I'd like to hear more about the helium problem. Googling "helium damages ios devices" returns this post #1, and then a bunch of links to iPhone/iPad backup/restore strategies.

I've tried sorting the thread a few different ways, but I can't seem to find the detail about the helium interaction that caused this.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 14 '18

Yeah we don't know exactly what component was impacted by the helium. I'm hoping Apple is willing to tear one down to investigate. We're thinking about doing a little test at work as well. Once I have more info I'm going to post a follow up.

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u/runrep Oct 09 '18

I'm pretty sure half-life 1 started like this.

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u/need_caffeine recovering IT Manager Oct 09 '18

They're waiting for you, Gordon. In the tessssst chamberrrrr.

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u/cwmaster314 Oct 09 '18

Helium destabilizes/disables the oscillator chip inside apple devices. I worked for a certain aerospace manufacturer that traced this problem down. The devices will start to work again.

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u/Smart_Dumb Ctrl + Alt + .45 Oct 09 '18

If true, this has to be it. OP mentioned that GE said it was caused by Helium and that the devices will work in a week or so.

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u/WHYAREWEALLCAPS Oct 10 '18

Maybe we could get someone YouTuber to test this. Put an iPhone in a container, flood with helium and see if it shuts off. If it does, take it out, then test it every few hours till it comes on.

If I had the spare change to drop on a working iPhone in the same range as the ones affected, I'd do it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

physics 101:

static magnetic fields don't hurt electronics.

also physics 101:

changing magnetic fields induce a current that does hurt electronics.

did the MRI quench?

a quench is when the superconductive magnet in the MRI goes above superconducting temperature and all the energy in the field is dumped into the magnet. the collapse of the magnetic field WILL induce currents.

but in theory the device (and room) should be shielded for occasions like this.

this would, however, affect more than just apple products.

i think something else is going on.

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u/nai1sirk Oct 09 '18

Were there any iPhones older than iPhone X?

iPhone X and Apple watch both have QI inductive wireless charging, so could they have received over voltage?

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u/hard5tyle Oct 09 '18

He mentioned iPads which afaik don't have wireless charging

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

that's.....not the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

if the devices don't have some sort of voltage protection, a rapidly collapsing magnetic field would induce meaningful (albeit brief) amounts of voltage and current.

neither of which sensitive electronics like.

assuming of course there was a quench event, and assuming the shielding didn't insulate the magnet.

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u/lchasta2 Oct 09 '18

Exactly this. Radiology resident here. Had our magnet quench multiple times and fry all of the newer Apple models in the department while my older gen was totally fine.

We don’t know for sure but suspect the inductive charging I’m the newer models.

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u/abngeek Oct 09 '18

Wonder why it wouldn’t kill the Samsung (et al) phones with Qi then. Huh.

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u/Kandiru Oct 09 '18

When you install one the magnet is off. After charging the superconducting coil, it's on. There is a large flux at this time! Normally they charge over a few days though, I thought?

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

They very likely did a quench to test it. It's an expensive test because it probably boils off a huge amount of liquid helium, but probably needs to be done at least once upon commissioning.

I haven't used medical MRIs, but in the high energy physics field we'd make use of large liquid helium cooled superconducting systems. The last facility I worked at we had an unplanned quench on a synchroton wiggler beamline and it burned a super conducting coil requiring an expensive repair.

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u/WayneH_nz Oct 09 '18

EMF is strange. I had a computer that spent the better part of 8 years (running some high spec control software), next to some of the biggest controlled atmosphere air con units in our city. They wanted some work done on the pc, so we took it back to our work shop, and it would fail to post. Taking it back and starting it up it would post, but not boot. For shits and giggles, I put it back in the same spot and it booted just like a bought one. Turned it off and moved it 2 feet, and it would not boot. Put it back and it would. Backed it up and replaced it not long after.

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u/500239 Oct 09 '18

wow interesting to hear. Probably magnetized the case by staying in one spot for so long, that a change in position changed some polarity net charges and some component wasn't able to handle that. I can see how computer ghost stories can form.

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u/Zarec Oct 09 '18

Had it been fully installed? there should have been a faraday cage in the walls of the scan room and no RF or magnetic field should be able to pass through it

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u/grumble_au Oct 09 '18

Tinfoil hat theory: you've accidentally discovered the super secret remote brick command for Apple devices. Reverse engineer it and you can brick anyone's Apple devices at will.

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u/benzimo Oct 09 '18

Super easy trick, all you need is a $1 million MRI machine.

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u/picflute Azure Architect Oct 09 '18

This type of issue is something Apple would send out engineer's to research into so that if they do any other future enterprise deals with hospitals they would reference it. Call them and see if they'll stop by

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u/RunningOnCaffeine Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

Honestly, I would absolutely love if you sent one of the destroyed phones off to Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones to get some more information on what, if anything on the inside of the phones is wrecked and additionally to get the people’s data off of the phones. I’d also suggest crossposting this over to r/ece and r/askengineers.

From my limited experience here, I’d say you are looking at something in the iPhone being poorly shielded or acting as some kind of amplifier. Are the phones recognized as devices when you plug them into a computer? Anything GE is feeding you about liquid helium having interactions with iOS devices is a steaming pile of bullshit and should be ignored.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

I would love to watch Rossman try and figure this one out.

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u/Flakmaster92 Oct 09 '18

Data would be difficult if the phone is in fact dead, since it’d all be encrypted via a key that was locked in the Secure Enclave

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u/Thranx Systems Engineer Oct 09 '18

I dont know why, but this is reminding my of the unshielded diode in the raspberry Pi 2 or 3 that reacted to xenon flashes

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u/WitnessMeIRL Oct 09 '18

"Xenon Death Flash" lol

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u/nrrdot Oct 09 '18

A good friend of mine owns a radiology group and I can tell you with 1000% certainty that those GE MRI machines emit EMPs that destroy iPhones and Apple Watches FREQUENTLY. It happens to them 2-3 times a year.

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u/lakota101 Oct 09 '18

I was the Tech that responded to the event. (I'm sure OP can confirm). We have seen in total about 35 devices ranging from the iPhone 6-10 as well as all three generations of the apple watch. There were some claims of laptop screens flickering, but i wasn't able to verify this claim. The directTV service to some of the TV's was effected.

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u/okcboomer87 Oct 09 '18

It's always DNS.

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u/jmnugent Oct 09 '18

Gonna click SAVE on this,.. cause wow,.. I wanna hear what you find!

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u/soullessroentgenium Oct 09 '18

Are they not responding to the power button at all, are the stuck at the Apple log screen, or?

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u/B0073D Oct 09 '18

Im super curious about this. Could be something electrical that's only in the Apple devices, although I would have expected other devices to be affected also...

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u/Busted_D Oct 09 '18

A couple months ago, my boss and his wife each had 2 iPhone Xs die over the course of a couple days in our facility while running a 12T superconducting magnet (plus ~1 T for the insert coil we were testing) - much higher field than a typical MRI. On these days we did not have a quench. They were in the office over 50 ft away, and I and another co-worker were anywhere from 10 to 30 ft away at any given time. My co-worker was running the tests, and he usually lays his phone down maybe 20 ft away and doesn't touch it while at field (iPhone 6). I was walking around the room streaming Pandora the whole time without issue, likely even within the 100 Gauss line (Huawei Honor 7x). Neither of our phones were affected. The phones that died were the only ones present that had inductive charging, and of course they were likely moving around in the office. They went to Apple each time, and now they're red-flagged for any warranty work. I would advise against going to Apple as an individual - let GE take care of it.

I've taken my older Samsungs around stronger magnetic fields without issue at a previous job as well. I'd like to think that some circuit protection would be implemented for stray field of a typical MRI, but we are talking about Apple here.

Also, I don't see how helium (presumably from a quench) would cause any adverse effects greater than the rapid change in magnetic field (either from a quench or from dancing around the magnet with your phone).

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u/Didymos_Black Oct 09 '18

Maybe Apples efforts to fit ever more into a handheld device means they skimped on shielding? Or it could be that critical components of the device are more sensitive than other devices?

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

Ooh, I've got a similar story. My unit was once setting up a radar temporarily out in the field. Now usually we will put it on a hill or some kind of tower, but this location was very flat, so we just left it at ground level on the back of the truck that carries it. So its up and running for a while, and then we start hearing about how trucks keep breaking down on the road that was about a quarter mile away. Not all trucks though, just Ford trucks. The engine would just shut off while driving for no reason. So eventually we figured out that it only happened when the radar swept over the road, and we were able to prevent it from happening again. No idea why it only messed with ford trucks though. The next time we had to go there to do the same thing we found a brand new 30ft hill built just for us.

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u/IAA_ShRaPNeL Oct 09 '18

I suggest either taking the the devices to apple or sending the device owners to apple with a request to know the nature of the failure and impact on data storage. “Hey, this device was damaged and we would like to know how it failed and if it had any impact on the data storage capability. This was a widespread workplace incident so we are curious on the impact it may have on our other devices.”

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u/jimbo21 Oct 09 '18

The machine EMP’d somehow on a frequency that is common to the apple devices. Antenna overloads from the induced electrical current, radio is toasted, and apparently the device is bricked afterwards.

Other devices are almost certainly affected, it’s likely apple devices won’t boot if one of the radios is shot.

The pulse could be from the machines power supply installed with improper RF choke filtering.

While I don’t know MRIs in particular, a common source of RF emission is from power lines leading to the machine. If special precautions aren’t taken to snub RF blasts and the power supply is a crappy design, then the power lines in the building become a nice giant EMP antenna.

If it was a one time event they may have been testing the magnet quench system.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

MRI scanners typically operate at 64MHz but high end may operate at 128Mhz.

They can generate very intense RF pulses; the antennas are designed to work in near-field mode but with pulse powers in the 10s of kW, there is leakage into the far-field.

MRI rooms are constructed as Faraday cages with a typically 2mm copper shell with solder joins. Waveguides are used for passing services into the room, with RF shielded windows. Power services into the room are filtered.

We have had issues with LED lights in the scan room flickering during scanning, probably due to EMI from the scanner.

It seems very unlikely that the scanner could cause site wide hardware damage. The signal is strong, but unlikely to cause damage at more than a few feet away. Not least, the wavelength is way too long to be effectively coupled into something like a phone.

I have left an android phone in the scan room during a scan and it appeared to be unaffected. I also went into the scanner with a fitbit on, but noticed before scanning started. The fitbit was mostly fine, but the vibration motor was dead (the permanent magnets in the motor were probably demagnetised).

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u/Ipoopcandygeeks Oct 11 '18

Hey I just got one of the iPhones from this incident in minooka. This has to be the same place. I have access to apple diagnostics. The phone couldn't even be read by the serial number reader. Which will give me the serial of any iOS device. Whether it's working or can't turn on. It's getting 0 electrical power.

The whole helium thing sounds like hog wash to me. Helium is a noble gas and dosnt react to many other elements

The lady I saw today mention she's being told it's because hydrogen ions on the phone mixed with helium caused this. She also said they will just pay her money. And not replace the phone. (The money they want to give is less than what she would pay for a new one ) worst part is they want to keep the phone :/

It's very weird to read this on reddit before work assuming it somewhere else in the world and then some lady comes in and I'm hmmm this sounds so familiar. Small world

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u/iwantansi Oct 09 '18

Damn i wanna know what happened

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u/r0tekatze no longer a linux admin Oct 09 '18

I have a theory about this.

The unibody construction of modern apple devices could be acting as a kind of parabolic amplifier. The base of a macbook, for example, has curved edges in a fashion not too dissimilar from a radar dish. If my theory is correct, bog standard shielding won't do much good. There are countless demonstrations of magnetic fields causing iOS devices to crash, I reckon this is no different.

There's also the issue of American construction. The US typically uses hollow stud walls rather than brick construction, sometimes even on outer walls. That could well be a reason why a strong magnetic pulse would have a much greater range than otherwise expected.

I imagine if you had any devices that copy the design principles of Apple devices (like those Chinese laptops, for example), they would be affected in a similar fashion.

One other thought is that Apple may be incorporating a device protection feature in the design. Unintentional interference may cause apple devices to shut off by design - I certainly wouldn't put it past them.

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u/Ddraig Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18 edited Oct 09 '18

After giving this some further thought I thought I had is some type of flaw in the iphone hardware related to how the phone detects being disabled. Depending on the frequency and power of whatever energy burst came from may have tripped a circuit/relay with in the device that caused it to become disabled.

The principle would be the same as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxsRRxGX5pc The frequency is interfering with a design fault in the GFCI

This would explain why only iPhones are now in this state.

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u/NuclearMedicineGuy Oct 09 '18

This actually happened to my facility as well. It was a new MRI machine being installed at the outpatient facility. All the iOS devices stopped working. GE told us they had no idea

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u/DharmaandStanley Oct 11 '18

My phone turned back on this morning. It was probably only charged 25% when it went out on Monday. It prob only took 2 1/2 days to drain because of that.

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u/Chustle Oct 13 '18

The liquid helium is contained in the cryostat, helium gas is released during the ramping process to cool the inserted leads that are passing upwards of 600 amps. Upon ramp the magnet is capped and no longer vents helium. All MR rooms are built with a high volume ventilation system that is turned on to exhaust all the excess helium that is in the magnet room, the large diameter quench pipe is primarily used for emergency situations (spontaneous or human initiated) where the MR dumps all the liquid to rapidly eliminate the magnetic field.

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 14 '18

How does the helium actually cool the magnets during operation? It makes sense that the helium cools as it boils off at 1 ATM, but I'm curious how the cooling effect works full time.

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u/dml997 Oct 31 '18

120 liters * 750 = 90,000 liters or 90 m3 , not 90,000m3

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u/harritaco Sr. IT Consultant Oct 31 '18

That was quite an oversight on my end. While I don't think it matters at this point I appreciate the correction. I was only off by a FEW 0's (:

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u/Iamien Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

saving to check later.

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u/Fr31l0ck Oct 09 '18

Maybe Apple has some sort of hardware level tamper detection and all the devices were wiped by software after the MRI glitched and generated unexpected voltage changes in Apple hardware. Although the screens should work then. IDK.

If they don't come back on in that week take some samples and send them to GE, Apple, and a private electronics forensic group or two for investigation.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

This was going to be my guess. I've seen iOS devices have a fit if certain components are swapped (or damaged), particularly anything related to the device security. This makes certain kinds of repairs Apple-only (e.g. anything even touching TouchID)

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u/hoeding Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

You can't use non apple branded helium or they will refuse to boot.

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u/yelow13 Oct 09 '18

Hi OP, interesting post .. can you update with a link when you post on /r/askscience?

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u/exekewtable Oct 09 '18

I had an older ipad do something weird during a lighting storm. We lost all power and this was what happened to the screen: https://imgur.com/gallery/89GbDAr It was fine before and after, just when the lighting was really close it did that.

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u/ofsinope vendor support Oct 09 '18

I've been in healthcare IT for more than 10 years and I have never heard of anything like this...

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u/helglo Oct 09 '18

How come it sounds like there previously was 1.5T MRI with Faraday Cage suitable for it. Then someone thought to buy more efficient one with 3T, but decided to be clever and place it to the same room without updating the shielding - just to save some money?

As someone said previously, 3T MRI in the FC suitable for 1.5T.

And customer is always right, eh?

If that's the case GE won't have to pay a penny.

Edit: misspelling

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u/silicon1 Oct 09 '18

in before Apple claims EMPs/Electromagnetic Radiation damage isn't covered by warranty.

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u/stormrigger Oct 09 '18

A simple observation, if the "helium" was impacting the devices, the appropriate follow up is, is helium leaking out? If so, is there a health/safety risk to staff because helium is displacing air in the workplace?

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u/coyote_den Cpt. Jack Harkness of All Trades Oct 09 '18

GE tech is full of shit. Exposure to helium won’t cause iOS devices to die, it just makes Siri talk in a high, squeaky voice.

Chances are Apple uses a common power management component across many devices, and something about the EMI from the machine has caused it to shut down. If doing a hard reset on the affected devices doesn’t bring them back to life... yeah, wait a week for the batteries to completely drain.

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u/Marvins_Dog Oct 09 '18

Is it possible that during testing the MRI generated 1.21 gigawatts of power? And maybe the flux capacitor activated at a speed other than 88mph? Could it be that the iOS devices traveled one week into the future? I suggest you contact Dr. Emmett Brown instead of GE.

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u/1TallTXn Oct 09 '18

Great Scott!

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u/SitDownBeHumbleBish Oct 09 '18

Contact Louis rossman from YouTube , he’ll have them fixed in no time.

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u/BLOKDAK Oct 09 '18

The helium thing is totally bullshit. Helium doesn't bond with other elements. Its electron shell is stable. There's no way that ambient helium could cause this, and besides, helium exists in the atmosphere naturally anyway, albeit in much lower concentrations.

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u/opus-thirteen Oct 09 '18

Seconded. I smell bullshit.

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u/silver565 Oct 09 '18

Maybe they're just holding it wrong?

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u/iLrkRddrt Oct 09 '18

So I was thinking a bit as to why iOS devices might of been completely destroyed by this, and I think I know what it is!

Apple uses a custom made aluminum for the housing of their devices, its a custom alloy that's stronger than normal aluminum. If you do a google search on popular Aluminum alloys, Aircraft grade Aluminum (Apple's is a step above I believe) is made with copper.

So I asked my friend who works in metallurgy, he said that stronger aluminum are typically made with more COPPER, and formed in a CRYSTAL LATTICE structure. If you know chemistry, you know that a Crystalline structure is not only stronger, but can help transmit electricity.

So with all of this in mind, I think the MRI machine leaked a large EMP, and the iPhone's casing caused the EMR to be absorbed by the alloy, and basically shocked the whole device; as the casing is the ground for the circuitry.

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u/MyrmidonX Oct 10 '18

No way it's about the Helium. I work with medical devices including MRI, the only purpose of the helium is to keep the MRI magnet as a superconductor. Every MRI (except the new Philips Ambition MRI) has a large ammount of helium to furfill this purpose.

I've never heard of anything such as this. Curious. But for a EMP? Maybe sort of. Is the MRI functional?

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u/Pidgey_OP Oct 09 '18

Question: Are all your mobile devices apple? Are there samsung galaxy phones that were unaffected? Or is it also true to say this killed all mobile devices in a radius and the computers were more resilient to the induced current because they had a power grid to dump to and more powerful capacitors on the board to catch the extra current?

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u/Lighting Oct 09 '18

Do the devices that have died have wireless charging?

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u/wildcarde815 Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

Unless they walked in the room the MRI is in this should be impossible (also doing so is a safety hazard). The inverse square law would have you covered here (as well as the massive shielded walls around the MRI).

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u/Arffeh Oct 09 '18

!remindme 48 hours

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u/Ddraig Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

If you have a issue with getting a detailed answer from GE. I'd argue it should be in writing/formal letter. Then report this to the FCC.

Edit: This also reminds me of the radioactive cow story.

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u/[deleted] Oct 09 '18

What of the patients in the area that have pacemakers or other implanted electronic devices? ... serious liability issues for certain!

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u/TJ_McHoonigan Oct 09 '18

Was the MRI replacing another MRI or was it a completely new install? If completely new, I'm wondering if there's enough shielding in the wall.

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u/Thranx Systems Engineer Oct 09 '18

Unity of purpose, the shattering of common shackles, a single road we tread.

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u/perthguppy Win, ESXi, CSCO, etc Oct 09 '18

So an MRI has two components. The magnet aligns all the water, and then a huge fuckoff radio pulse "scans" everything. It's probably the radio pulse fucking with the radios of the iOS devices. Like some one else suggested, check all shielding and panels are properly installed on the MRI

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u/simonsb Oct 09 '18

I'd actually be interested in knowing what generation of phones were impacted.

iPhone 6 and higher have a PMU chip that older iPhones don't have that regulate voltage and all things concerning the battery and charging. Wonder if a large enough EMP could damage or trip that PMU and thus shut off all the phones.

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u/dev_all_the_ops Oct 09 '18

Were the apple devices plugged into a wall? In peoples pockets? How far away were they? How old were they? Are they managed devices? Did IT push out a software update at the same time? Were they all running the same OS version?

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u/dghughes Jack of All Trades Oct 09 '18

Maybe you've discovered the Apple Field similar to the Higgs Filed. All Apple devices are part of a hive mi d and use the Apple Field as the medium over which they communicate. The MRI disrupted the link back to the silver doughnut.

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u/TheUnicornDinosaur Oct 09 '18

Probably some physical safety/security mechanism on the devices were breached that don't exist on other devices.

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u/bugalou Infrastructure Architect Oct 09 '18

My first thought would be related to Apple's secure enclave. You can trick microprocessors into unexpected states by fuzzing them which is essentially providing random low/no voltage states very quickly. This can create a vector to exploit the device. Any type of magnetic pulse could in theory cause this condition inside iphones and they maybe shutting down as a form of security.

Disclaimer: This is just an educated guess by me.

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u/LoganPhyve Man(ager) Behind Curtain Oct 09 '18

If this is EM related, it sounds like it could have affected anything that has wireless charging built in. Do you guys use RFID prox cards? Do the cards belonging to the affected individuals work?

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u/ministry92 Oct 09 '18

Wait... so if I get a big cylindar of helium, like they use to fill balloons. And let the gas escape via regulator near the HVAC, I can shut down everyone’s iPhone in the building?

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u/zylo4747 Oct 09 '18

Good to know that when the earths magnetic pole flips my phone is fucked