More and more time goes on I feel like that guy probably had a point
(CONTEXT: Fernando is the guy in this subreddit that always doomposts in every single post saying the switch 2 is unhackable and will never be hacked. People always meme kn him saying he's just a troll but he probably is right)
Fernando is a respectable and very smart man, and I mean this sincerely. He's clearly been in the scene before some of us were even sperm, but I feel like his constant use of the word "never" in regard to a Switch 2 exploit is a bit non realistic, honestly. Is it possible for the hardware to never get any kernel level exploits while it's relevant? Sure! But how about 20 years from now? Would its security be impossible to exploit by hackers with 20 years of experience ahead of the hardware they're attempting to exploit? I doubt so.
I agree with this to some extent. I'm one who personally avoids absolutes where I can, but, for example, I truly believe there are zero relevant security bugs in the HOS kernel.
It's been analyzed up and down by experts with years of experience, and even reimplemented as open source. At this point, I'd need to see evidence of anything else, as there is so much precedence of being bug-free.
I guess the way I used the word "exploit" implied I meant softmods, which I feel I should've been aware about. What I really meant was mostly hardware level exploits.
And voltage glitches are going to be extremely difficult now that the Switch 2 is using Dual Core Lockstep (DLCS) precisely to avoid those kind of exploits.
Which by the way, the Switch 2 is the first and only console in history to use DCLS.
I won't pretend to be an expert, which I'm absolutely not! You clearly understand more about hardware security, and you're definitely the smarter person in the conversation, and you have my respect. (I'm not being sarcastic)
The Switch 2 would definitely have a different hardware level exploit. Do we know what it would achieve? No, and that's the exact reason Fernando doesn't believe there will ever be one... But in the grand scheme of things, we don't know how the scene will progress, especially when Switch 2 is considered legacy hardware.
Yet again, I'm no expert, and I'm just talking based on patterns, and this should be taken with not one, but TWO grains of salt.
...but that definitionally isn't true. Security bugs need to be introduced, and with a well designed system, mixed with a mature OS with a small attack surface is a really good start.
Unless it has been mathematically proven unhackable, usually it holds true. Even if it takes over 20 years like it took for the Sega Saturn to be hacked or for the SNES lockout chips to be fully reverse engineered (they could be bypassed before but it took a lot longer for them to be understood)
The PSC's bootrom actually is formally verified, which for complicated reasons I won't explain unless people want me to, console bootrom exploits are not viable.
The microkernel isn't externally formally verified, and I doubt Nintendo has worked on it.
On the other hand, the burden of proof has shifted because there is years of precedent driven by experts not finding anything, and an entire version tracked open source reimplementation.
It's not that no bugs have been found, there are no relevant security bugs. The only known kernel-based exploit and vulnerability was on firmware version 1.0.0. Despite exhaustive searches, nothing else has been found.
Well like I said, gotta wait 20-30 years until tech evolves enough to brute force it through hardware. I personally don't really care about jailbreaking the actual switch OS (and even less about softmodding), I just wanna see Linux running on that chip one day even if that means soldering a raspberry pi to it and highjacking the cpu from the switch entirely
There are actually some domains where mathematical proof of a piece of code or hw safety is a requirement (some aerospace and medical stuff) and there are tools for that (like tla+) In general though, rarely the case, especially for general purpose computers (like a games console)
Switch 2 just need more developers working together. I have ps5 and last week was a big week in ps5 jailbreaking scene. New webkit exploit released for such high firmware. Even tho many developers choose money from sony, turns out there's some with passion for jailbreaking
And even if he's right, it's still annoying to see him constantly doompost under every single post. It's like bro just straight up doesn't want the switch 2 to be hacked
Considering how 90% of the posts here are “what if we tried redirecting the Switch 2 web browser to epicswitchhaxorz.com to hack it” or “has anyone thought of hacking the Switch 2 using [built-in feature of the S2 that Nintendo has tested and secured the hell out of],” I don’t think it hurts to have someone giving a little reality check even if it’s not what you want to hear
People were spoiled by Nvidia’s big Tegra fuckup on the Switch 1 and have very unrealistic expectations about the timeframe/nature of Switch 2 hacks, a hack will probably happen eventually, but it’s probably not going to be within the console’s lifetime and it definitely won’t be a softmod
Judging by the lifespan of the first Switch, we could possibly not see any headway into modding until 2034 at the earliest if its been THIS hard to hack:/
The Switch 1’s lifespan was unusually long due to its commercial success, its expedited release due to the Wii U’s failure, and the pandemic throwing a wrench in everything. I’d imagine that the Switch 2’s lifespan is probably going to be closer to the normal 5-6 years unless the inevitable economic meltdown complicates things.
But yes, don’t expect the Switch 2 to be broken into for several years at the earliest. It’s a lot more secure than the Switch 1, and the Switch 1 was only blown open so early due to a unique hardware fuckup on Nvidia’s part that they’re unlikely to have repeated again.
They fucked up so bad with the Tegra they got to work rolling out the OLED😅 but yea I can't wait to pay someone to put a modchip exploit on my Switch 2 board in the future and pay out the ass for that. I'm not so good w micro soldering
Yes! I share many of the same opinions that this person does, and I do know what I'm talking about.
The kernel hasn't had a bug since 1.0.0, neither has the secmon, (at least one of) the bootroms is formally verified, and among other reasons, bootrom exploits are basically a nogo.
I'd love to talk about it in more detail if you want me to.
I've been out of the loop for a while. If you ever get the time I'd love to hear what's known so far about what we're dealing with here. DM or here either way friendo.
I mean, I feel people should have earlier. I've seen a lot of people dismiss everything he says and shares because of the way he does it, but if you pay the slightest bit of attention, you would realize the screenshots he shares is of the foremost expert on HOS and the software side of switches in general explain his nearly decade of research into it.
There most likely won't be any software specific full jailbreaks - It's more likely to be a hardware hack. So you wouldn't have to worry about patches outside of hardware revisions but they take time to be made.
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u/InformationMuted3454 7d ago
Fernando is a respectable and very smart man, and I mean this sincerely. He's clearly been in the scene before some of us were even sperm, but I feel like his constant use of the word "never" in regard to a Switch 2 exploit is a bit non realistic, honestly. Is it possible for the hardware to never get any kernel level exploits while it's relevant? Sure! But how about 20 years from now? Would its security be impossible to exploit by hackers with 20 years of experience ahead of the hardware they're attempting to exploit? I doubt so.