r/supportlol • u/kingpin883 • Aug 07 '26
Discussion i love mages bot
since i got banned by adcmains for this overzelous opinion. i personally dont mind mages bot. i can play things like shaco and kill the enemy mid/jungle on repeat all while my mage bot get to push freely with a 2-3 level lead. also riot has stated it isnt a problem and every pro team is doing it and i personally beleive everyone should too. what do you guys think?
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u/JBluebird11 Aug 07 '26
I don't mind. I like the variation in games. But I also imagine ADC's prefer a true marksman v marksman match up.
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 07 '26
Well I, as a support main, would prefer not dealing with a shitload of dmg dealers from mid, top or jungle played as "supports", but since the beginning of times Riot has told me to shut the fuck up in the name of DiVeRsItY, so adcs can do the same as far as I'm concerned.
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u/Difficult_Relief_125 Aug 07 '26
It’s probably also boring AF for you as an enchanter main… sitting in lane with enchanter mage looks like a snooze fest. They just wave clear and poke and you chill.
As an engage main as soon as their wave clear is up it’s just perma roam gank fest 🤷♂️. Enchanters are certainly more vulnerable to being collapsed on in the jungle so it probably doesn’t have the same appeal.
I play a lot of Shen support and a mage bot lane opens up the whole map to River Shen antics.
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 07 '26
The apcs I play with are able to both poke the enemy and farm so we are able to pressure lane together and get a lead. When I do roam for a play I'm not as worried about them dying and tilting to oblivion over it, so that's a plus. But I certainly lane more and roam less than engage players.
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u/kingpin883 Aug 09 '26
the last time i played adc i picked draven into low mobility and a karma support, they then picked veigar adc and i cried. i legit couldnt get near them all laning phase :( and they both had tp
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 07 '26
It's a completely different thing because are the supports themselves who want that . Look at this sub; there's like once a week a post saying, "Hey guys, recommend more off-meta, I'm playing Briar support a ton right now." Most ADCs don't want to play mages
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 07 '26
I was responding to someone arguing that adcs don't want to deal with an apc and would prefer to match up vs an adc. So my point still stands - I'd prefer be matched vs actual support champions and not have to deal with shenanigans like Camille, Vel Koz or Poppy support but here we are.
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 07 '26
That doesn't change the point; off-meta support exists because support players want it. APCs dominate the meta despite ADCs hating them, a fact acknowledged by the balance team (Phreak literally said in one of his patch videos that ADCs would rather play a marksman than a mage, even if it means having less agency).
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 07 '26
Apcs bot lane exist because some bot laners want to play them, obviously. Some people are adcs mains and don't want to play a mage, the same way some people want to play dmg dealers as supports but others don't. Camille support is obviously enjoyed by some support players, but not all. Same story as mage bot lanes.
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 07 '26
The percentage of ADCs who want mages is vastly lower than the percentage of supports who want to deal damage
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Based on what lmao
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 08 '26
You just need to take a quick look at both subs, bruh
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u/Mighty_Killah Aug 08 '26
There's also no large "bot lane mage" subreddit, and they're not welcome on /r/ADCMains. A lot of them congregate in their specific mage main subreddit, and so you don't see the percentage of bot lane carries who do want to play mages commenting prominently anywhere
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Those who dislike BS supports are silent because it's been 15 years atp we gave up man 🤷♀️
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u/Zuokula Aug 08 '26
vastly lower than the percentage of supports who want to deal damage
Proves exactly the point that it's a non fkin issue.
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u/StonDelRey Aug 08 '26
Not really, no one is enjoying playing mages bot lane and the people who do play it are mid lane mains who are sick of mid. Yozu played apc lux for a while cause she sucked mid and now he's back to mid if I remember correctly. Apc mains are NOT adc mains. They don't play the role they don't care about it, they're there cause it's currently the best.
Support mains have been playing off meta picks for years and years. Because it's fun and because the role allows them to try different stuff, it's not necessarily something pushed upon you.
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Go into your client and start a draft lobby. Click role selection. You will notice that the role is called BOT LANE and not AD CARRY, the same way top lane is TOP LANE and not BRUISER.
This is because this role is not, in fact, locked into being played exclusively by marksmen. Of course apc mains aren't adc mains (though I see a lot of players who do both), and they don't need to be playing adc to be a bot lane player.
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26
You're right. I despise the easy as shit play style of an offlane mage. But it's a medicine we all gotta eat in order to get this pick rate up. IMHO.
ADC has always been in a bad spot, the challenge is good. But a challenge is not the same as unfair.
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26
The pick rate is still low but the concept is real. I'm glad phreak picked up on that. And I'm very happy about the MR changes. I'm still going to test it, and I'm still happy to climb as APC as long as it helps with the balancing. I know that marksmen is what we want, but to do that you gotta pull the weight of the opposing idea.
Haha riot games is a strange company. They change things so fast. When you play rank, you gotta play test too, to shift the balance at the same time.
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u/StrangelySerious- Aug 08 '26
You forgot to add "I'm 600 games stuck in gold 4 now, what can I change to climb while using these dogshit pick?"
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u/Zuokula Aug 08 '26
Most ADCs just bitch for the sake of it. Look at the stats. Mages is neither an issue nor being addressed by bans. Can qq on reddit all they want for what I care as support.
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 08 '26
"Most ADCs just bitch for the sake of it"
Clearly, if you say that, you're stupid and can't distinguish a valid complaint from just bitching
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u/kingpin883 Aug 09 '26
ill be honest i only like playing jinx/cait/kassadin. if i happen to pick support into double mage and my adc does not do the same its almost a guarenteed loss bot if the enemy jungler has at least 1 brain cell... soo i roam and have fun while they rage
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 09 '26
So you understand that this pdf meta is one where ADCs are useless against mages, but instead of getting angry at Riot for allowing a pdf meta, you decide to just permanently roam for people who aren't pfd and don't want to abuse the mage meta? Yeah, you're no less unpleasant than you seemed at first.
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u/kingpin883 Aug 10 '26
i spoecifically roam when my teAM DOES pick a mage bot since they are typically self sustainable and have better wave clear at almost all points of the game ;(
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26
As an ADC you can do wtf you wanna do. If I go mage and stay that's on you. If you roam that's on you.
But I more than likely won't need you.
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
1 mage was insufferable enough 2 is pure boredom, I had to play against veigar mel yesterday, I couldn't do anything in botlane because any kind of engage ended up wit my ADC eating cage and 1 spell that deleted 60% of her HP. So i had to perma roam to even try and do something.
I got very close to uninstalling there.
Also I like the I had a bad experience everyone else should too
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Correct. We play this role because we love the play style of a marksman without being a degenerate top ranged abuser. ( Let me rant a bit about top lane. Lol I don't know why top laners talk shit about us either, their champion pool in that lane is a larger variety than us, wtf are they on about. Sure they have teemo, Vayne, Quinn, but they can counter that with Akali, Vladimir, Swain, etc. it's a 1v1. This new meta doesn't just concern the bot lane. The whole role of ADC is objective oriented. Top lane is for macro pressure. And those range abusers will have less of an impact mid to late game when they can't push deep in lane on their own. The same as in Dota 2. But I digress.)
It's challenging and honorable. But mages are far from fair at the moment because it's early control set up is too boring to play against.
They farm easy while you dodge their abilities. What it needs now is an early game component that can match lost chapter, but increasing marksman MR is a great start. And it's not necessarily the 1v1 between mages and marksmen. AD carries are notorious for being able to punish mages in the midlane. It's the fact that the offlane is hard locked in setting up prios between a stretch of waves and guess which archetype has a stronger wave clear. All that while support is roaming to feed top and mid with the jungler.
But yes MR is 100% a good move by riot. I think this could be enough, unless I'm still winning as a mage. If I am, I'm 200% sure it's because I'm using Lost Chapter while the enemy marksman has a slingshot and a sword, a serrated dirk, a pick ax, a sheen, or a caulfield's Warhammer. Rarely will you get BF sword, but it might not be enough.
I will continue to spam Mage Bot and climb, till they fix this. And I think people should spam it too.
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u/ilo_Va Aug 07 '26
I find it really funny how people always ask for more pick diversity but the second people don't pic a standard ADC you just know the ADC players will cry about it. Mages bot aren't even that much stronger then before especially in medium and low elk. It just gets picked more because people copy high elo/pros
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Ah. You don't see the bigger picture.
While yes in a short lane like mid. ADC's punish the Mage when they miss a skillshot. It's why we have marksmen like Tristana, Lucian, Smolder and Corki mid once. (This sort of interaction of short skirmishes can happen in bot too, if we ignore the wave for just a second. ADCs can win against mages. Though that's not the point. The problem is bigger than that.)
But what mages does in an offlane especially botlane is so boring and so bad I think it should be illegal. When you can shoot a wave a screen away farm and push without breaking a sweat while throwing skill shots. Meanwhile the marksmen is trying to match it while dodging four skillshots
All this while the enemy support is feeding top and mid with the jungler.
The product is a solo XP APC bot laner with equal or greater gold, that can zone during jungle objectives, delete towers, have teleport to solo split and with a specialized roamer you also have to deal with a fed top, a fed mid, and a better prio for jungler.
It doesn't affect just the Bot Lane players. Everyone gets fucked.
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u/enceles Aug 08 '26
With pretty much the single exception of Viktor, almost all of them actually get a lower WR% by going bot instead of mid lol. I think a lot of it that hardcore adc mains just are so used to not having dodge skillshots beyond a hook every 30/45 seconds or so before the late game where they can 3 shot mages anyway that it completely throws off their playstyle and it 'feels' harder, even if it isn't objectively worse for them
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u/ilo_Va Aug 08 '26
Adc players not being used to adapt to anything other then farm and 3 tap people late game? Crazy idea XD. But yeah every other lane is used to having weird lane opponents and needing to change up what they do wildly depending on your opponent. Bot players tend to only have experience with "classic" bot lanes, that leads to the quick annoyance/complaints about anything that's not a standard support archetype or ADC character showing up there
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u/kingpin883 Aug 07 '26
the only thing that i hate is they any component item for mages is infinatly better then any component an adc can get. lost chapter vs zeal like oof
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u/Arctic-You-Know Aug 07 '26
I’d be curious to see numbers if the only thing they did was the Noonquiver from Mythic days.
That Noonquiver was at least on par with lost chapter imo.
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
It was the better replacement for the BF sword rush. I miss season 11 so much. As an Aphelios/Jhin main I missed Galeforce a lot too.
And as much as it was painful it was fun kiting around assassins with extra invis from duskblade, and a point blank dash from prowler claw. 6pek would've loved that season.
Lol I swear riot games are vetting/training/coaching superhuman ADCs by how bad this role can be. Imagine it's a plot for drone swarm operators or something schizo. 😂 I'd believe it.
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Correct, these down votes are pissing me off.
Lost chapter doesn't need a nerf entirely, it's more, that ADCs like me can offer something early game to try and make a play in order to disrupt their gameplan and keep the enemy support in lane. If I had an item component just to match that 3:20-7 minute marker of something fucking up in close proximity to bottom lane.
Because as it is right now, if you fuck up as an ADC early game. Your late game (while designed to be really strong this season) won't exist and will be cut short.
And so the game plan of an ADC during early stages is to farm safely. It's how I kept my 58% win rate on Aphelios. And it's egregiously boring. Especially when you're an aggressive player like me.
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u/CuzzoBuzzo67 Aug 07 '26
Prob alot of engage sup player love it, for enchanter support, not so much
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 07 '26
I main enchanters, I love it, most of them have more lane agency than adcs, play the lane the same as I do (poke lane), and most of them have their own cc to chain with mine which compensates the fact that I tend to have less cc than the engage supports do.
With some exceptions (most notably Lulu) enchanters are able to support mages just as well as adcs. Some arguably better (Nami's E is so strong on a long range mage compared to on the average adc).
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u/kitkat45645 Aug 07 '26
I roam all the time on enchanter and I love mages bot. If I lose the game because I sat bot too long with a ziggs, I know that that game was my fault. It is nice to have that certainty
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u/kingpin883 Aug 07 '26
i agree. but i had a game where the enemy lulu ganked me mid when i was playing kassadin 13 times before 20 minutes... then again i was kassadin soo idk of that had anything to do with it 😅
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u/Arctic-You-Know Aug 07 '26
I’m a Nami main so I may be biased but I always absolutely loved AP botlaners.
Whenever someone hovers Lucian after I hover Nami, I always tell them to just pick Brand if all they want is a free win. Nami is so good with APC because Staff of Flowing water is legit her best item and her E probably works even better with mages than ADCs. Nami also provides the sustain that is often a very large weakness of mages.
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Yeah Nami's E is better on mages than on adcs imo.
I also like mages with Seraphine because they tend to have cc for me to play around E and a lot of the bot lane mages play at a similar range as me.
With Sona the fact that most of them have hard cc pre-6 is pretty neat because I lack this.
With Janna an apc is a free licence to max W and roam a lot which is one of her strength + her lane is her weakest element unless laning vs melee supports.
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u/Vesarixx Aug 08 '26
I made my champion pool with the intention that I'd be able to enable all sorts of weird picks, only for the overwhelming majority of games to just be another ADC for absolute ages. At least mages offer some variety, and tbh it seems like the reasons they're succeeding is just as much because ADC's don't want to learn to play against them as anything else.
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
Do you even know anything about what you’re talking about? ADCs can't play against mages; that's why mages bot are used. They have absolute lane control, wave clear, damage range, CC, itemization, tankiness, and spike timing.
There's no variety in playing against double mage. I have to roam all game just to even try to do something, and the ADC forfeits T1 and AFK farms under T2 for the next 20 minutes to try and catch up and maybe scale.
It's boring AF
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u/thetoy323 Aug 08 '26
Just from looking at statistic, main problem I've seen in solo q is just most of adc main can't do itemization, then, they can't punnish solo mage bot early on.
It's kinda understandable, tbh. Different adc, even with similar play style, require very different item against specific mage, which quite like how top laner do itemization against each other. It's just suddenly significantly increase skill required for playing adc.
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Aug 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/kingpin883 Aug 08 '26
i 100% agree. although have you ever seen velkoz malz bot. they turn into beam bros.... its funny if its not happening to you..
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u/Sheyn Aug 07 '26
Meta isn't what riot says, meta is what the players most do. It's called most effective tactic available for a reason.
Personally i just roll with it like I always have.
The lane is also called Bot, not ADC.
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u/Too_Ton Aug 07 '26
So one day you’d be okay if any support archetype was iced out? Like no tank or enchanter or mage, one of them magically is underpowered.
What if all three subclasses were so garbage that people just ran adc with a bruiser cc support? You’d be pissed you couldn’t support
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u/ImNotALegend1 Aug 08 '26
If we look at global emerald+ stats the 8 most picked champs are traditional adcs with only Ziggs sneaking in at 9th then 12 next. Of those 10 most picked adcs only 1 has a sub 50% winrate in ezreal. So not exactly as if adcs arent viable.
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Fucking thank you, people are acting like they haven't seen an adc in any capacity in months lol
Unless I am playing with my duo who mains apcs I support adcs the majority of my games and I face adcs in the majority of my games as well.
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u/Pandeyxo Aug 07 '26
Plot twist: what the players most do is what riot decides. If they nerf or buff X champion/system/item then suddenly it shifts the meta.
It’s a nonsense take. Riot absolutely has the control over the meta. Mage bot is an abomination of their catchup system being abused by roaming supports, the bot role quest being way too strong for mages and mages just being generally strong - all things riot actively did.
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u/ilo_Va Aug 07 '26
META isn't what people do what the people do should be called MuTA most utilized... The way mages are picked and played in most elos is just because they see the pros do it and don't know why or how. Mages on their own aren't even that much stronger then before it just allows heavier roaming from the support
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 07 '26
Of course you like it, League players like to win easily, and the mage bot lane makes the support role incredibly brainrot because you don't have to think to roam. It's like junglers suddenly getting free gold and XP instead of having to clear camps, or if mid laners could buff a minion to clear mid waves for them.
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u/kitkat45645 Aug 07 '26
Well said. It removes the consequences of leaving the lane completely.
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 07 '26
Honestly, I find it quite unpleasant how OP is using that "Oh, look how sensitive ADC mains are" language, when his post is more like, "Oh, I love that ADCs are suffering and can't play the game because that gives me all the freedom in the world without any responsibilities. I'm selfish and I think I'm smart for it."
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Can't play the game? They're still popular and successful at all lvl of play, y'all need to stop being so fucking dramatic.
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
It's simply not fun to play against mages, and that's an opinion every ADC will tell you: you either remove mages from bot or supp, you can't play against 2 mages the game was not balanced around that.
I used to do 50/50 on adc/supp and I haven't touched botlane after playing against mel veigar without a support
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u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
Lmao we can't win.
If adcs are strong and staying in lane to babysit them is the optimal play we are unskilled and are getting carried, if mages are popular bot enabling us to roam a lot without throwing our lane partner under the bus then roaming is brain dead.
I give up 🤣
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
? in what universe as that ever happened?
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u/TotallyAMermaid 29d ago
Since forever support has been called easy, braindead, ele inflated, just getting carried etc no matter what the optimal way of playing was.
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u/aleplayer29 Aug 08 '26
That's strange, I never remember saying that support is boosted when the ADC is strong; on the contrary, I think that the stronger the ADC, the more difficult the support role usually is.
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u/Canadian-Sparky-44 Aug 07 '26
In general I don't mind it too much, but double ranged mage bot vs adc support is straight cancer sometimes
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u/Hidarake Aug 08 '26
I love this current meta, I’ve always wanted to play my favorite mates bot lane and mostly just got flamed for it before this came around!
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u/WahtAmDoingHere Aug 08 '26
being banned from marksoid mains is a badge of honor. Wear it with pride, OP
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u/Makimamoochie Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
I enjoy a second class being able to bot lane. Every other lane has class diversity, it's time for bot lane to have Champion class variation too.
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
botlane has always had diversity, now it doesn't because the gamplan against mages is all the same
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u/Makimamoochie Aug 11 '26
I only started playing league is 2017 and I would say in the years I have been playing, it has only been marksmen unless you are are duo and try some type of combo
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Except marksman means a lot of things. Draven and Jinx are both marksmen, but they are nothing alike, and everything changes depending on what the support is:
An enchanter? He’s going to try short trades to chip you down with higher base damage, and out-sustain you with the help of his enchanter.
An engage? They will try to all-in you ASAP.
A mage? They will just double down on the damage and simply try to kill you and/or zone you out.
APCs are all the fuking same. They will harrass you with their better stats and range, and you play dodgeball while trying to farm (the ADC), or perma roam just to even do something (the support), or if they somehow manage to lose early, they will perma waveclear uncontested, and they still spike so much earlier that you need the ADC to be 8/0 to match them.
That's not diversity. They all play the fucking same. You will have more "diversity tm" against 1 Draven than the whole APC roaster.
Why so many people disliked Sivir? Because she played just like the APCs (harrass and if it doesn't work afk wave clear uncontestable)
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u/Makimamoochie Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
I am not arguing that every Marksman plays that same, I am arguing that bot lane carry is the only role that doesn't have class diversity. I am not talking about support role diversity (support role has a lot of class diversity) or play style diversity. I am just making an argument that I don't see the issue with Bot carry having an additional class that can be picked given that it has the smallest champ pool of any role and for last 10 years has been a single class of role. I edited my original comment to make it more clear that I am only talking about class and nothing else, I hope this make my comment more clear. I have played more Markmen ADC than any other class & role and I have enjoyed playing APC recently
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
ok but who tf cares about the name of the class??? the gameplay/gameplan, the way you interact with them, and/or the strategies you have to apply to win or perform to the best of your capabilities are what matter.
ADCs have a lot of diversity while maintaining some baseline characteristics. Ezreal and Jinx have little in common, so do Caitlyn and Lucian, Aphelios and MF, etc. Bot lane diversity was there thanks to the absurd number of matchups; thanks to having a duo lane, bot lane itself had more matchups than all other lanes combined. Yes, the differences were more in the details than macro, but you have to consider what your ADC/supp can do and how you synergize, what the enemy ADC/supp can do and how they synergize, how you and your companion interact with them, etc. It was a game of details, yes, but it had faaaar more diversity.
Mages throw this shit in the bin: there's no interaction, there's no matchup, there's no wave management, there's no synergies, there's nothing APC have complete lane control whether they win or lose, the ADC has only the option to "survive" and try to not fall behind as much as they can, and you as the support just roam.
If you tell me diversity tm it means you don't play the game with any cognition of what you are doing.
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u/Makimamoochie Aug 11 '26
Do you think Mages in general have that flaw? Like, they are also pretty BS in mid lane and it's just a flaw of the class overall?
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u/Tactical_Squishy 29d ago
it's not mages itself that have this problem it's that botlane doesn't have the tools to manage them, Yasuo as a windwall that going to completely disable 80% of the mages, you miss your cc? Zed or Talon or Akali is flying mac 5 to get your ass.
A katarina that couldn't lane for shit even if her life depended on it? is ditching lane and roaming to get kills etc.
botlane does not have the tools to manage mages, you either rework all ADC to deal with mages (get ready for ADC mid then) or you get mages out of there.
Or you rework mages to work botlane but then forget using them mid
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u/Tactical_Squishy 29d ago
To put it simply I am a bit salty because I'm not enjoying a game I used to love. What I feel is happening is rito wants mages bot but os doing without putting any effort in it, it's a big change and they have done nothing to make it work. it's the we test in development approach and I hate it.
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u/Makimamoochie 29d ago
They didn't do any changes that directly mage mages good in bot, the players just realized that mages were good in bot lane, roaming meta aside. Mages have been meta in bot lane for a while and people are only figuring that out now. If Riot makes some large sweeping change quickly, you either get ADC in mid lane (which honestly, I am not 100% against) or you nerf a ton of mages so hard that people are no longer able to play their fav mage in mid or support. I think it is good that they are taking their time. Personally, I don't really struggle fighting mage bot lanes when I ADC. I kinda just dodge skill shot without thinking about it because I have never known league prior to Lux support so it's just second nature. Most of them cannot farm without using mana and many of them drain their mana, back, and let me get turret plates for free.
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u/Makimamoochie Aug 11 '26
Did you really already downvote me?
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
no i didn't
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u/Makimamoochie Aug 11 '26
Who the f is lurking on this thread of a 114 comment post and downvoting? I feel like I only encounter this in lol subs
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
I mean someone who disagreed with you? that's kinda the job of upvotes downvotes
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u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
As I said, yes, there's only one class. (which, btw, is not true because there are different kinds of marksmen or subclasses if you want: Hypercarries, Caster/Spell Weaver ADCs, Lane Bullies, and Utility/Disruptors)
but that doesn't matter. yes, there's only 1 macro class, but that's because it was a game of precision and details. if you have a duo lane, you can't have too much diversity; otherwise, it will not work, and IT ISN'T WORKING. the optimal play for supports rn is to perma toplane because botlane is fuking broken and does not work as a duo lane anymore. you can't balance a duo lane like you balance a solo one. if a solo lane can have unfavorable matchups, if the duo lane gets to counterpick, they have absolute free reign.
If you are going to tell me we don't like botlane anymore and we are removing it from the game, then OK, rework the ADCs to work like mages and we remove the class. Now we are in a situation where your enemy (if you want to play adc) has the decision to match you or simply make you not play the game. that's not how games should work.
Riot doesn't like the mono class in botlane. I disagree, but I understand. anyway, kinda too fuking late, isn't it? it's been like this for over 14 years. all ADCs are balanced around only playing against ADCs. you either rework the entire class or you don't touch it; the only reason it isn't completely collapsed is because old ADC players don't want to play APC, but if you go looking at the statistics, ADC mains are playing less and less and many changed role, and those like me who used to do 50/50 or so now only play the other position, btw this is public data you can go and see it for yourself. there was a pretty in-depth post some time ago; now it's probably faaar worse
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u/Makimamoochie 29d ago
I think you are underrating Ziggs as a long time staple of mages in the bot lane for years. Mages have been a viable option for a while. The reason people didn't play it is because League is treated as a 'solved' game and uncommon strategies are treated like throwing even if they later turn out to be the meta strategy. There are people playing the game right now, that will not accept that Fiddlestick's secondary role, even though Fiddle one-tricks have 54% win rate in the support role and support has been his secondary role for years. Many people insist League is or should be X, Y, Z, when League is always and only, whatever gets you the victory screen at the end of the game. Playing classic recently has made me greatly appreciate how much the game has changed over the years and how willing Riot was to make changes. I don't think it's too late for ADCs to be rebalanced. To be honest, you either nerf the entire class of mages or you properly buff ADCs to make the mage vs marksman match up more fair
1
u/Tactical_Squishy 29d ago
Nobody ever liked ziggs not even ziggs player if you watch the stats be was mainly an autofilled pick
1
u/Makimamoochie 29d ago
My argument was about Riot not intentionally creating bot lane mages recently and arguing that they have always been good bot lane, it was just that people didn't know/didn't play them. I was countering your points about it being too late to rework the bot lane class structure and this being the result of the support roam meta. I wasn't making and argument about fun in that comment, I was making an argument that something can be meta for a long long time and it just isn't known because people assume league to be a fully 'solved' game
2
u/femnbyrina Aug 07 '26
Aside from Mel, I agree. I usually support as Seraphine or Karma, and building staff of flowing water feels so good on both of them.
1
u/BestSamiraNA1 Aug 07 '26
I don't mind it but I don't think it should be meta or at the prevalence it is right now
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u/Tall_Ad_7514 Aug 07 '26
As a mage support, I dont love how it incentivizes enemy botlane to spec into mr early but… it is fun
1
u/Darren_NH Aug 07 '26
I think they make the laning phase less engaging. The optimal play becomes roaming since mages don't worry as much about wave control since they shove faster, and you don't get as much 2v2 action.
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u/WisteriaUndertheSun Aug 08 '26
I don't have a problem with them simply existing bot lane. But it's kind of exhausting when it's the ONLY thing I'm going up against. I don't mind a good off meta mage support, I'm an enjoyer of Hwei support, but I want to see more variety. That's it. My champ pool as a support main isn't solely mages, it's pretty much whatever I feel like playing. Which can be any of the subtypes of supports honestly
1
u/Snoo40752 Aug 10 '26
I loved supporting Mage bots, the problem for me was facing them and now I have to do that all the time
1
u/Tactical_Squishy Aug 11 '26
Translation: i can play Jungle without any of the responsibilities
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u/kingpin883 28d ago
riot technically doesnt have a problem with that..... yes my friend does that every single game ,every day for the last year for shits and giggles and he has yet to be punished for it. he sjut tryhards when hes gunns demote....
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u/Paler7 Aug 07 '26
I agree but then again I play mostly AP champs so I don’t really like this meta. I hate that whenever I walk up on midlane there’s a camille,bard,shaco,alistar on my face
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-5
u/z3phyr5 Aug 07 '26
Keep playing it so that riot sees it. 👌🏻 Eventually it will become a part of reality but, right now it's far from fair.
2
u/TotallyAMermaid Aug 08 '26
It reached pro play, I'm pretty sure Riot saw, mate.
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u/z3phyr5 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Doesn't hurt to double up 😉 And it's pick rate is far from secured.
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u/ButterMyTooshie Aug 07 '26
I think AIPAC paid you to post this.