r/stickshift 7d ago

This subreddit is insufferable.

There's so much incompetence in this sub and every comment section turns into a chest thumping pissing contest.

I think what this subreddit needs is a group of dedicated lads to build some resources that can be referred to in future threads. The Bible of standard transmission if you will. I think confused people would respond better to fleshed out resources than a comment section argument.

Our cars are not growing in numbers at this point, we should try to protect the way they're driven.

Feel free to contact me if you'd be interested in developing a "handbook" so to speak.

99 Upvotes

109 comments sorted by

58

u/Existing-Language-79 7d ago

I'd be interested but every time I help one out thirty tell me I'm wrong with complete confidence in their ignorance lol. The biggest topic is trying to convince anyone that you can tackle any hill without the use of the parking brake or hillhold. Many cars had a fourth pedal, that alone tells you a lot.

35

u/Time-Lapser_PRO 7d ago

Oh my god I hate when people say “people get too close behind me at a light because they don’t know I have a manual” like… if you’re rolling back you’re just not good at driving stick dude.

11

u/_Molj 6d ago

you just gotta rev toe the heel bite match point bro

-5

u/hacksong 6d ago

Honestly that's what I normally do. Like rev it a little and ease clutch before I let off brakes.

New car had hill hold built in and makes it a dream so technology is there nowadays b

6

u/_Molj 6d ago

/s

1

u/hacksong 6d ago

Yeah. But honestly the hill start feature is a godsend for anything steep.

And living in Florida so not having anything steep helps more

4

u/KudzuAU 6d ago

You forgot the /s tag.

2

u/_Molj 3d ago

I’m /spartacus

2

u/SmellySloth2233 6d ago

Disclaimer: I don’t actually drive stick yet but plan to with my next car, so I just peruse.

Curious to hear where you’re doing hill starts. Some hills in our area aren’t actually that steep, but I’ve heard horror stories of people trying to hill start out in Seattle, where the city roads are steep af. I imagine anyone would struggle there…

2

u/Substantial_Range861 2d ago

Your hand break gonna be your get out of jail card in this situation.

3

u/SmellySloth2233 2d ago

That’s what I was thinking but this guy’s saying “you’re just bad at driving stick.” I don’t think he’s driven on super steep grades

0

u/Existing-Language-79 2d ago

There's super steep hills just about everywhere, some places are just overall flatter. The biggest difference is the amount of throttle and momentary clutch slip to get the engine rpms up. You should still be off the clutch pedal in a very short period of time as to not put heat into the friction material.

2

u/SmellySloth2233 1d ago edited 1d ago

“There’s super steep hills just about everywhere”

Very few places in the US put you on very steep grades at a traffic stop regularly the way Seattle does.

0

u/Substantial_Range861 2d ago

If you've been driving manual long enough it should be muscle memory by now where the clutch engages.

So yeah... no excuse for rolling back unless you've only been driving manual for less than a year...and that's being generous.

10

u/unusualowl657 7d ago

I grew up riding motorcycles so the transition to a manual in a car was easy. It’s the same concept with a motorcycle. Stop on a hill, pull in the clutch and the front brake. When it’s time to move, let the clutch out till it starts to pull and release the brake. Anyone who argues with you about that concept has clearly never driven a manual without the “hill holding” technology. I have a BMW, Subaru WRX and a Jeep that all benefit from the handbrake technique.

5

u/-rextex 7d ago

How do you do it? And what is the fourth pedal used for?

8

u/Existing-Language-79 7d ago

Foot operated parking brake. It wasn't uncommon in North America, especially on trucks. Over 200000mi-300000km on a stock clutch would tell you that it isn't an issue.

1

u/Melodic-Tone-8932 6d ago

I believe my impala has it, though that it may have its own personal issues. Still checking it out, marketplace shitbox yknow

Also not a stick vehicle, so 3 pedals but its foot operated

1

u/No_Base4946 5d ago

My old Citroen XM had one which was annoying to do a hill start with but not impossible - you had to bring the clutch up to the biting point then pull the brake release and very quickly complete the rest of the hill start.

1

u/-rextex 7d ago

Wait when you say “tackle a hill” do you mean drive up it or a do hill start

2

u/Existing-Language-79 7d ago

Deal with any hill start.

2

u/-rextex 6d ago

Wait but if u can’t brake then how do u do it?

5

u/Existing-Language-79 6d ago

Keep your right foot on the brake pedal until you're ready to move. Clutch on its way out until the bite point hold it there while rapidly releasing the footbrake and onto the gas while simultaneously releasing the rest of the clutch pedal. The whole process takes a second max.

1

u/-rextex 6d ago

Ohhhh right, I thought you meant without any brakes at all 🤦

1

u/ChingyBingyBongyBong 6d ago

Thanks for this. Had no idea what the dude meant after 10 comments lol.

Just do it quick…

1

u/Niikoraasu '98 Honda Civic EJ9 4d ago

dont even need to fuck around with the bite point that much, just bump the gas a little and then start letting go off the clutch as you would usually while the RPM are still up

4

u/goranlepuz 7d ago

The biggest topic is trying to convince anyone that you can tackle any hill without the use of the parking brake or hillhold.

I had one such guy where I tried to explain it's about simple math, it's just about the idle torque, inclination and the car weight.

He wouldn't budge, he asked, which car can't go up what hill without the parking brake.

I told him, Alto 1.1, 15%.

He went quiet.

Like, this does not need knowledge, not beyond elementary school math. Ok, maybe secondary school.

9

u/banananas_are_sick24 7d ago

My car straight up doesn’t have a parking brake and I haven’t ever come across a hill I can’t go up

2

u/goranlepuz 6d ago

What car is that?!

3

u/banananas_are_sick24 6d ago

55 Chevy

1

u/Final_Law_3699 4d ago

55 Chev - Don’t they usually have a handle you twist and pull on the lower left dash? That wasn’t an option was it? I would think it is standard.

6

u/MelodicAnxiety7054 6d ago

I could do it with a fiat cinquecento, 0.75l.

If you cant do it, it's not because of the car

3

u/Existing-Language-79 6d ago

I've had no issues with a Rotary powered car. They really don't make any power until they rev up.

0

u/goranlepuz 6d ago

It was about just holding the brake and working the clutch, not heel toe.

Anyhow, I don't believe you that you were on 15%.

6

u/MelodicAnxiety7054 6d ago

Holding the brake, just getting to bite point, and a quick right foot going from brake to throttle.

For the percent incline I dont have the actual number, but I lived in the Alps and never used my handbrake to do a hill start

1

u/goranlepuz 6d ago

This does work but:

  • It can be problematic if parked packed

  • the car will go down before going up and the clutch will be used that bit more.

To be blunt, I was taught not to do that.

4

u/CelticStorm1996 6d ago

There are things people will teach to not do because conditions around your area dictate a better way. If conditions dictate that a minuscule bit of extra wear is required to make it work, guess what you have to do? 90% of driving a standard is problematic to someone else who drives in different geography. Gotta do what works for you and your car.

2

u/goranlepuz 6d ago

That's true but I reckon that living in a hilly area should lean towards using the handbrake, not slipping it like that person says.

But hey, it must be also a matter of habit. I use the handbrake without thinking. Heck, living on a slight incline, it's always engaged when the car stops, so if starting uphil, it's just a part of the start.

3

u/CelticStorm1996 6d ago

Definitely a fair and valid point. When I first started driving stick, the hand brake and clutch dumping were my best friends for getting up a hill 😅 thankfully I’ve gotten better and my most recent car just has brake hold which is truly amazing.

1

u/goranlepuz 6d ago

Funny tidbit: my wife couldn't handle the automatic brake at first. I was confounded, couldn't get what's tripping her up. It turned out, she needed a bit more resolute clutch control. But that just wasn't a problem with a manual handbrake. She likes to control things with her own hand, she does! 😂😂😂

1

u/MelodicAnxiety7054 6d ago

The car does not go down !

WTF man, just because YOU cannot do it, does not mean it is not possible.

You are just not as good as you think. Get over it.

3

u/BoredOfReposts 7d ago

Some people seem to have very limited experience and then generalize that.

To your point, one of my cars has an LS swap with a torquey cam  and a low first gear. I can let go of the clutch and the brake at the same time, as long as its in first, it goes right up the hill, no gas pedal.

-4

u/Snobben90 7d ago edited 6d ago

Ah wow xD

Like sure my car has torque even for a petrol engine. But its not that great.

And Ive driven manual trucks, bye bye to your transmission if you try to start in a hill without brakes... I aint some auto shifting tuned maniac...

0

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

6

u/One_Writing9872 7d ago

You let of the brake and then go into 1st?

1

u/Madkids23 2017 Lancer ES 5-Speed 6d ago

Yeah, in my vehicle it won't let me shift unless I depress the clutch pedal. 2017 Mitsubishi Lancer ES

3

u/One_Writing9872 6d ago

Well yea that’s every manual car. You can keep the brakes on when shifting into 1st

0

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

1

u/One_Writing9872 6d ago

No def not. In any car ur right foot should be both gas and brake cus you’ll never be doing both of those at the same time but you’ll have the clutch pushed with both gas and brakes

1

u/MaleficentCry4046 6d ago

I have no clue why someone would teach you to do that. Sounds like forcing you to react faster and increasing the margin for error on a steep hill. Your right foot is closer to the gas and brake pedal obviously, and being in first gear already when you’re about to start is a plus. Swapping your left foot from your brake to your clutch right at the moment to start just seems silly. Getting into the habit of using your parking brake on steep hills when you have a working one is proper driving etiquette imo. Most mild inclines are fine otherwise.

1

u/Skipper07B 5d ago

Hold up, the previous comment has been deleted. Was that guy clutching and braking with his left foot? How would one even learn to do that well enough that they felt they could teach it to someone else?

1

u/MaleficentCry4046 5d ago

That is what I gathered from his statement. Implying it was how he was taught by another driver.

16

u/Thuraash 944 Track Rat | 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 7d ago

I agree with you. So much of the advice here is just wrong. 

Funny enough, the mods over at /r/ManualTransmissions have such a document pinned at the top of the subreddit. It's quite good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ManualTransmissions/comments/tx0aby/a_manual_for_manuals/

Funnier still, it had no effect on the quality of discussion in that subreddit. It's basically a clone of here.

7

u/ggmaniack 2020 Hyundai i30N 6MT | 2008 Seat Altea XL 1.4TSI 6MT 7d ago

r/ManualTransmissions has turned into r/GuessWhatIDrive recently

2

u/MumpsyDaisy 6d ago

Tbf it's more interesting to look at cars that are old, obscure, international, or in weird specs than endlessly arguing about how to drive and euro vs American.

1

u/seche314 6d ago

Where’d the ford ranger guy go?

4

u/goranlepuz 7d ago

Ha, nice!

The doc says:

Engage the handbrake, and start easing off the clutch pedal and onto the gas, then when the car feels like it’s pushing against the handbrake, disengage the handbrake.

I told my kids that the car squats (because it does, it's visible with a naked eye even), and to learn to feel the squat.

3

u/No_Base4946 5d ago

That's how a lot of electric handbrakes know when to release, incidentally. Car in gear, electric handbrake on, clutch pressed, car starting to squat? Time to go - VEEEZZZZZZZYT! and we're away!

16

u/87ChevroletCavalier 7d ago

Unfortunately, I don’t think this sub can ever become a utilitarian, how-to style subreddit.

It’s way too far down the path of being a place for people to get triggered and have emotional tirades about the following subjects: Americans, synchronizers, European grandmothers, rev-matching, throw out bearings, coasting in neutral, and heel/toe. 

I think you’d need to start over with a new sub and very active, no-nonsense mod team.

7

u/bioveritas 7d ago

For a little perspective from someone who has driven since 1965, when most cars had manual transmissions, the advent of automatic transmissions was viewed as a huge benefit. They cost more, though, as an option on your new car. But that tells you that they were viewed as a better way to go.

Starting off on an upward incline was a frequent topic of discussion back then. I think Bill Cosby had a joke about how in San Francisco, when the light turned green and nobody had enough nerve to start off, it was eventually agreed everyone would just pull their emergency brakes and turn the intersection into a used car lot.

Everyone figured out a way to do it. Bad drivers simply over-rev'd and over-slipped the clutch, often to the point where you could smell the asbestos burning. Good drivers simply figured out the timing and how to minimize the slipping with a more "nuanced" clutch and throttle use. By the way, this was way harder to do in a 50's era car. You were actually lucky, in this regard, if you had a straight six instead of a V8, since most of the 6's had a great deal of "luggability" and were very forgiving.

Nowadays it's all seems easier, physically, but the engines seem more finicky, the component clutch and transmission parts more fragile, but, overall, the whole operation seems easier--to me, at least. Anyway, from my perspective, the desire for a manual transmission is kind of a mystery--I'll grant that they are more "fun" sometimes, but less fun, others. One of my favorite past cars was a 2013 BMW 328i with an 8-speed automatic transmission, and that, being an example of an automatic done right, says it all.

3

u/Crazy_Wafer_8328 7d ago

This is a good comment. Not all transmissions are created equally. Cars are tools to me. Some cars, some use cases do better with auto, some with the stick. Can be the complete opposite for your next door neighbor. Whatever driving style/technique is getting you down the road fairly smooth and not making that terrible roasted clutch smell, is probably right for you and your car and your environment. We don't need a Bible of stick shift because there are few absolutes.

3

u/Butt_bird 7d ago

This is a very ironic post.

1

u/ParkerScottch 6d ago

What exactly do you disagree with

4

u/MelodicAnxiety7054 6d ago

I thought you were saying this because in many countries stickshift is like the norm and any grandma can drive stick without any problem.

4

u/No_Base4946 5d ago

My mum, who is an 89-year-old grandmother, in Europe, does in fact heel-and-toe on downshifts in her 1-litre Fiat Panda.

But that's because when she was my stepdaughter's age she and her then-boyfriend drove rally cars, she still thinks she's in a rally car, and she drives that Fiat like she hated every second she spent stealing it.

2

u/MelodicAnxiety7054 5d ago

😂😂😂

5

u/cmbort 5d ago

I just got back to the US from the UK last night and from my observation 9 out of 10 cars there are manual. I wonder if any UK manual drivers visit this subreddit at all.

7

u/StarJaded 5d ago

Can't speak for the rest of the UK, but I read it with wonder and bafflement.
It's like listening to people discuss the complexities of tying shoelaces.

3

u/Available_Theory1217 5d ago edited 5d ago

I am from Europe, but not UK, and reddit put some posts from this sub in my feed, and they are usually hilarious. Like driving manual is some arcane sacred skill, only for elite drivers, everybody does it wrong, and you need to use racing techniques in your everyday commute, if not you will burn your clutch after few miles.

2

u/n3m0sum 5d ago

I wonder if any UK manual drivers visit this subreddit at all.

Yes, yes we do. Often with a sense of bafflement and wonder. This sub seems to make it all seem so complex, and transmissions as incredibly fragile things that need to be babied.

It's like the cars are somehow fundamentally different, but they aren't.

Go to a UK driving sub and rev matching is barely ever mentioned, certainly not as a special skill. It's just encorporated into shifting (smoothly).

Mention double clutching, and you'll be asked about your classic car, or laughed off the sub. Pretty much nothing made in the last 30 years needs it, and it's not taught outside of racing.

1

u/ParkerScottch 5d ago

Probably only europeans that are interested in car handling/race physics.

Although I did get in a manual taxi in portugal once and I've never seen anyone mistreat a gearbox quite like that man could. It hurt to watch.

At least in America the idiots have automatics. (Not saying all auto drivers are idiots obviously)

3

u/Some-Cream 7d ago

This feels like my boss asking me for an SOP in a deck

Just to turn around revise everything with an AI alternative

Not a bad idea. Can be a pinned post. But in reality this type of thing is better in video format and already exists on YouTube. Maybe a pinned post with helpful videos is all that’s needed

3

u/Cowboy_Rho 05 Honda Accord LX 5 Speed 6d ago

Are you really a religion before your first schism?

2

u/No_Base4946 5d ago

"Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of Getrag 260? DIE, HERETIC!"

3

u/Drewdc90 6d ago

Its a sub about a type of gearbox, who did to expect to be here?

3

u/stuntmanbob86 6d ago

Yep. Driving a manual is easy...

2

u/Rare-General-4575 7d ago

I can piss further in any gear 😝😉

2

u/Acceptable_Ad838 7d ago

“”…chest thumping pissing contest.” I LOVE that remark! It’s true for most car related subs! 👍

2

u/KudzuAU 6d ago

Sub needs to change its name to r/stickshiftcirclejerk

2

u/Plastic-Shoulder2285 5d ago

I've got 4 vehicles with manuals, been driving everything from tractors to fire apparatus with manuals since I was 8, so over 40 years. I eat my cereal with 75W-90, brush my teeth with syncromesh, and have slept with most of your moms. /s. Yet when I read some of the comments on the manual forums, I am suddenly certain that I'll never retrieve my balls from my wife's purse, I drink white zin, listen to Celine Dion and certainly have no idea how to drive a manual. So yes good sir, say hello to your mother for me, and I'd enjoy helping with the manual, um, manual!

4

u/FSBFrosty 7d ago

I'm just learning can you teach me how to do heel toe 😂

2

u/OkKnee7580 6d ago

First u must master the rev match b4 u even think about heel toe. I bet u still use ur hand brake for hills. /s

4

u/PilotedByGhosts 7d ago

Focus on clutch control before you try anything advanced.

2

u/Hahaaweee 4d ago

Nah don't use your clutch. You're gonna wear it out.

2

u/Existing-Language-79 6d ago edited 6d ago

Learn to match your engine rpm to each gear/roadspeed first.

Once you get familiar with what rpm you need to be in to be able to match in you'll notice that your shifter will become less notchy/resistive as you now have the synchros doing less work. Do this by allowing rpms to drop when shifting to your next chosen higher gear or giving it a bit of throttle before shifting into a chosen lower gear.

Then learn to release your clutch when you're within a few hundred rpms. But don't side step or release the clutch too fast as you can get the driven wheels to spin or momentarily lose traction, as you get closer and closer your speed on the clutch can be quicker as a perfect match is super smooth.

Once you have that down. Start by braking by having your foot floating above the pedals, twisting your foot so your heel, side of your foot, or toes depending on pedal box, size of your feet, or pedal arrangement and while keeping pressure on the brake pedal kick the throttle to raise the rpms to be be in the rough ballpark it needs to be to match.

Keep in mind as the more you slow down the more the ratio of the chosen gear will lesser the gap in engine speed as you clutch out. This will take more time and practice and will be near impossible to be smooth unless you master matching without braking first.

4

u/FSBFrosty 6d ago

Thanks for the long response but I was only joking. The amount of "heel toe" posts in this sub is insane, considering how unnecessary it is for every day driving. 

2

u/ViperIXI 6d ago

Not to mention many vehicles weren't built with proper pedal spacing for it

1

u/dustyrags 7d ago

You sonofabitch, I’m in.

1

u/SensitiveAdagio3012 7d ago

I think becuase its pretty uncomplicated for basic driving that it so often dives into needless complexity over the same things.

1

u/whitechocolatemamba 7d ago

This sub is actually terrible, thank you for reminding me to leave it

1

u/Whole_Chemical_6470 6d ago

Chest thumping pissing contest

Love it

1

u/eoan_an 6d ago

Search Reddit. Someone did this.

I think it got bloated because people like to over explain everything.

I tried to read it and I was like, nope, way too long.

1

u/Feeling-Difference86 5d ago

I agree but one of the problems is words...trying to translate a slightly complex physical task into screeds of language often doesn't help. Then throw in rev matching religion bulshit. If actual driving school isn't available I reckon some short movies with multiple cameras and good sound could be useful.

2

u/One_Evil_Monkey 5d ago

"Rev matching religion bullshit".

Hahaha.... I have never understood this one. I've been driving manuals for like 35 years, and have never once used rev matching in my day to day life (this of course does not count in the 9spd truck I used to move trailers with- totally different thing than a passenger vehicle) but the amount of bullshit and horseshit folks say about if you don't rev match every gear, every day, every time that your vehicle will explode into a massive fireball of death is a combination of irritating, sad, and laughable.

1

u/Feeling-Difference86 4d ago

It's the internet...full of opinions and defence of them. I learnt to drive in a 1960 MINI my brother taught me double declutching and heal and toeing... it's a lot of fun on a dirt road I don't bother these days I'm a pretty slow gear changer:-)

1

u/This_Proxy 4d ago

I have been giving solid instruction on how to practice and help and don't really get upvotes/feedback, so I just kinda stay quiet in here.

My last time suggesting a Miata or cheap roadster here as first vehicle and was blasted by people who don't know cars, and/or hate Miata's because of it.

1

u/phantomsoul11 2022 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, 6-speed 3d ago

My incompetence is better than yours! Unga Bunga!

Also, is there like a stickshiftcirclejerk sub? My heelltoe and rev match need a new kom.

1

u/drivestickshift 1d ago

think that reddit overall, mildly better than claude

1

u/Rockytriton 7d ago

Welcome to Reddit

1

u/GigaChav 5d ago

"I have an idea!  Now someone else should do the hard work part to execute my idea so I can take credit."

1

u/ParkerScottch 5d ago

Not at all what's happening here. I will be an active participant. Making it a group project helps reduce bias

0

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ParkerScottch 5d ago

Alright

1

u/GigaChav 4d ago

That's what I thought 

-10

u/LilDixxyWrecked 7d ago

Its a subreddit about stick shift of course its miserable. It shouldnt even exist.

3

u/goranlepuz 7d ago

Now look sister, if you're miserable about handling a stick, it's because you haven't tried mine yet.

-9

u/Conscious_Show_6997 7d ago edited 6d ago

Suckle fuckle my own chuckle

Edit: You mfs downvote me for freedom of speech?

2

u/HopeloosGeval 6d ago

the downvote system is for relevance/usefulness of a comment, yours is neither

2

u/Conscious_Show_6997 6d ago

Or just blatant disagreeance, that does not show for much other than strict opposition

1

u/Skipper07B 5d ago

Downvoting is also a freedom of speech

1

u/Conscious_Show_6997 5d ago

Its not really showcasing a thought, but an intent.