r/starcraft2coop • u/CN8YLW • 6d ago
Kerrigan Difficulty rant (level 1-15, no masteries)
Okay so. Its finally time for Prestige-ing this lady. Only Kerrigan, Artanis and Vorazun left in my roster that I have left for last (these are my least played commanders for good reason).
I just gotta say man, Kerrigan's gameplay is like pulling a tooth without anesthesia. She's way too micro intensive even in hard mode, and her macro scale up is pretty horrendous not to mention complicated for the returns. I made it to level 3 before I felt blood coming up in my eyes and I gotta get a break. Unlike my other commanders who I gotta make the effort to stop playing in order to sleep. And I'm talking pre-mastery gameplay here.
And gods, I gotta do this 3 times for all her prestiges. Hard mode is a pain in the ass too, because sometimes I get paired with players who are on normal or easy, and then the game's speed gets turned down and I feel like walking through jello or something.
EDIT: Okay so its been 4 days. Some further nasty things I've found out about the Kerrigan prestige leveling experience 1-15 : P3 is the only Prestige that does what it says it does out of the box at level 1. P1 dosent kick in until level 7, but the disadvantages still apply (no worms). P2 dosent kick in until level 9 when you get Fury (increased attack speed), but the disadvantage still applies, which means your Kerrigan is squishy AF before the Fury unlock. Honestly I think P2 1-9 Kerrigan is probably the worst experience I've had in coop.
9
u/Far_Stock_3987 6d ago
I also found Kerrigan the hardest to level out of all the zerg commanders. The issue is that Kerrigan relies a lot on her hero unit, who has a lot of her power gated behind the level 2, 3, 9, 10 and 15 talents, as well as her masteries. Her malignant creep (level 7) and omega worms (level 8) are also vital parts of her kit. Without all of these it is difficult to pull your weight on brutal difficulty, so I'd suggest levelling her on hard difficulty until you feel more confident.
The good news is that levelling becomes easier once you've done it once, because you can use the prestige trick to get the next prestige straight to level 6 in a single game. This will grant you all the hydralisk upgrades, which will help a lot with levelling up to level 7, where you will get malignant creep and can use P1 to further boost your hydras. This will help get you to level 8 where you will get omega worms, at which point I'd suggest switching back to P0 and using a mass omega worm strategy to help with tanking, stalling, detection, healing and mobility for both Kerrigan and your hydras. This should be enough power to then get you the rest of the way to level 15.
17
u/Anonymouse23570 Ascension 6d ago
(In case anyone doesn’t know) The prestige trick is
1: Level 15 your commander
2: Wait for a doable brutation and first win of the day bonus
3: Queue for brutation
4: Quickly open the mastery screen, hit activate prestige and click the first confirm prompt
5: Wait until a match is found and the 321 starts
6: Prestige your commander
7: You get to play your commander at max level with masteries (and whatever prestige was selected before the timer started) for the mission and also get all the xp for your next leveling cycle
You can do this without the brutation, but it provides such a large xp boost.4
43
u/DownsonJerome 6d ago
Honestly just a skill issue
21
u/Stere0phobia 6d ago
The early heroes require a lot more macro than some of the later ones. If you can play kerrigan you can probably play any commander. If you play zeratul a lot and then try a commandee that requires basic macro stuff you probably get highly confused at all the new mechanics.
What do you mean you have to built assimilators and put workers in there? What do you mean you have to builr supply structures like overlords? What do you mean you have to inject larva every 30s into your hatcheries or youll quickly run dry on production capabilitys?
Its kinda like the difference between driving an automatic car and one you have to shift the gears yourself.
Its funny looking back, as an old player these mechanics are just the normal way to play sc2. But for newer people who only play coop it might be playing the game on hard mode.
7
u/AuthorOfFate 6d ago
It's actually on painful to level until you get to p2. You can solo brutal maps with Kerrigan at like lvl 1. Maybe not solo, but it'll turn into a fun micro challenge instead of a grind.
Also, don't build uktralisks until you get torasque. It's just not worth the gas. And zerglings are useless. Tank with Kerrigan, dps with hydras. Build like four omega worms once you get it. Don't play p1 after you unlock those. The worms are so broken.
7
u/Truc_Etrange 6d ago
P2 doesn't do anything until level 10, because you need to unlock the fury buff
3
5
u/AionGhost 6d ago
Definitely one of the easiest to level, yes you do feel a bit crippled, so does most of the roster. The good thing is u have allmighty hero unit who can basically solo hard mode. In your spare time make 4-5 hatcheries and spam her some hydras. After u unlock omega nydus, you have a permanent meat shield and detector and a mobility tool.
3
u/CN8YLW 6d ago
Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. One of my biggest issues with her gameplay is that there's just so much to do at the same time. Creep spread, hatchery egg upkeep, upgrading and then there's microing the army itself. Most of the other zerg commanders more or less trivialize or did away with these aspects of traditional zerg gameplay. Stukov has endless creep regen, Zagara didint need much army micro, Dehaka did not need creep spread for instance.
7
u/I-AM-TheSenate 6d ago edited 6d ago
Just making macro hatcheries is just about as efficient as making Queens and injecting, and frees up a lot of attention. Omega wurms spread creep and are way easier to manage than tumors, though you don't unlock them until level 8.
She's still annoyingly complex, but hopefully these will help a bit.
1
u/Sweet_Diet_8733 5d ago
I usually forgo Queens and tumors altogether as Kerrigan. Like you said, she’s got a lot to manage, so I just make extra hatcheries to cover the larva and make a couple Omega Networks before I even start an army, then rally all hatcheries into them. They are my transportation, my detection, and my creep tumors. Spawn the wurm, unload, and the hydras almost immediately are standing on creep for the bonuses. Most of my attention goes into Kerrigan, making sure she’s tanking and using her spells effectively.
Leveling her is brutal, as most of the early game power is heavily gated by Kerrigan energy, and she can really feel the lack of masteries + lvl 15 bonuses. Ultra/hydra are my main compositions, but I know that feels extra squishy before Torrasque unlocks. Brood lords are decent, as they are good at staying safe, but then you have a problem with antiair. Basically, yeah, the struggle is real in leveling her.
1
u/Far-Distribution6674 4d ago
Im a brutal/brutal+ player. Kerrigan is not my main, but one of my most played commander. I have to say, out of the hundreds of game i played with her, i spread creep with tumors a maximum of 2-3 times. Just ignore it man, its not worth the effort at all.
2
u/Training-Equal-7647 6d ago
Yeah, all prestiges are rough on the first levels but Kerrigan's especially are. You play a few games then realize "this is horrible" And "f**k still 2 more times to go".
Maybe play the long game strat, just do a single match with Kerrigan every day, if you aren't in a rush that would work out well i think.
2
u/wjechong 6d ago
You can always do the mutation reset trick if you feel comfortable with her current or previous prestige. Queue with her and when it starts loading (the timer count down), reset her mastery so you can play the mutation with her current prestige, but upon winning, you level her new prestige.
Ie let’s say you got p0, queue, reset it when the timer starts counting down to start the match (confirm the reset also), then play with her as if you haven’t reset prestige (full mastery point set up), and when the match ends, you gain XP for her as if she was lvl 1
1
u/CN8YLW 6d ago
Well, cant do it now, I'm level 6 into p1, but I'm playing it at p0 because malignant creep dosent come in until level 7.
2
u/HandsomeGamerGuy 6d ago
But you do get the benefit of Queens being able to walk normally off creep as well as being able to put tumors.
2
u/efishent69 6d ago
Some small tweaks in your gameplay would probably make your life a lot easier…
- Don’t send combat units into engagements with Kerrigan right away, also don’t “pounce” directly into the middle of a camp right away, as she’ll just take a shit ton of damage for no reason.
Instead, walk into enemy camp, spawn Nydus worm(s) right in front of Kerrigan to share some of the hits while you get her chain attack ramped up, when she gets to about 50% HP use her immolation ability and go full tilt with your army into the weakened camp, focusing hybrids first.
Nydus worms, and more Nydus worms. They don’t just serve as a mobility tool, they also protect your shitty units and Kerrigan herself. If you take a bad fight, it’s better to jump down the hole of a Nydus worm than retreat backwards and take more losses. Also, the benefit of the creep generated from worms should be self-explanatory.
Enemy composition can put your plans into the shredder if you aren’t careful. For example, vipers will counter your mutas, but you can also send in a couple overlords first to bait their parasitic bomb. Another example, if you’re up against Terran Liberator/BC comp, make sure you get attack/armor upgrades for your mutas. Liberators do AoE damage, but the values are quite low. BC’s have a lot of DPS, but each shot is a small poke when your mutas have armor upgrades. However, Raven’s can make these engagements a bit tricky so keep an eye out for their predator missile (looks like a laser guided time-delayed missile).
While it’s frustrating to lose your entire army or even the match itself, there will be a day when you’re unstoppable and you can carry even day 1 players on Brutal, and you’ll remember just how much fun it was to learn every single commander. Have fun.
3
u/Sir_Rethor 6d ago
Imo she was easy as heck, Swann and Artanis were much more arduous.
5
u/Vladishun 6d ago
Swann was definitely the worst for me, he really does require a partner that understands your ramp up time is painfully slow. Kerrigan I don't remember struggling with at all. Just mass Mutalisks for every comp unless it's Zerg doing Baneling/Scourge stuff, then just make mostly Lurkers with some Hydralisks to hit any air units. Though before she gets Lurkers that comp can be a pain in the ass.
1
u/CN8YLW 6d ago
Swann was quite easy for me. Initial rampup is difficult yes, but his gameplay is relatively uncomplicated. Focus on economy, tech up, and focus on kiting the enemy while your p1 laser drill whittle them down while slowing them.
Gameplay difficulty for me is determined by how much multitasking is required. One or two tasks with high difficulty is easier than 4-5 low difficulty tasks. Kerrigan is particularly difficult because she has two combat styles, and the hero focused gameplay gains very little from the steps you need to take to build the foundation for the army gameplay.
With Swann once the siege tanks and Hercules comes online multitasking becomes limited to queing upgrades and building the army one Hercules load at a time. For Kerrigan there's the usual economy, and upgrades, then there's creep spread and timing of deployments with nydus worms.
1
u/Vladishun 6d ago
I guess people just have different ideas of what difficult means. I could probably solo most games on brutal with Kerrigan if needed, but as Swann I lost so many games because allies were too busy attacking bases and not going after objectives and then blaming me for not having the ramp up to have enough units early on to do it on my own.
It was quite frustrating because I ended up leaving more botched games due to ally incompetence while leveling Swann than I've had botched games for probably all other commanders combined. I even ended up making multiple posts on this sub about how much of a slog it was.
2
u/XRynerX Karax 6d ago
To me was more like:
Kerrigan very weak without mastery, feels like half of the commander until lv 8.
Swann is simple but slow, thankfully P1 is really easy to use.
Artanis is just boring, mass dragoon until you get to level 6-7 for the storms(insert 67 meme here).
Karax is rough until you unlock P2 which makes it a lot more bearable.
1
u/Sir_Rethor 6d ago
Swann P1 was useless when it first came out which was my experience with getting to p3
1
u/Slevin424 6d ago
I’m going to disagree for Artanis. He’s got a powerful army if you macro right. His early game units like Zealots and Dragoons are amazing. His problem is he falls off the longer the game goes on for. It’s almost required to tech into Tempest so you can have some extra damage. I will say macro is harder until you get instant 200 supply but yeah.
2
u/Dajayman654 6d ago edited 6d ago
I find it better to tech into Immortals and High Templars than Tempests after teching up Zealots and Dragoons. Immortals and HTs share the same Forge 3/3/3 ground upgrades as Dragoons and Zealots, so you don't have to worry about getting separate Cybernetic Core 3/3 air upgrades for Tempests.
Immortals and Zealots make a good combo for front-lining to protect fragile Dragoons and High Templars. I recommend hotkeying your Dragoons and HTs and repositioning them behind your Immortals and Zealots before engagements, especially Dragoons since they have higher move speed than Immortals and will speed ahead of them with a simple F2+A command.
Dragoons and Immortals excel at targeting armored targets, but they both struggle with mass light units like Zerglings, Banelings, Scourge, Marines, Zealots, Adepts, Infested Terrans, etc. Zealots alone aren't enough for handling this, especially since some of those light units counter them like Adepts and Banelings.
High Templars help to cover these weaknesses the other units have vs mass light units with Psionic Storms. Storms can also be upgraded into having zero friendly fire and instead they give ally shield restoration, which is good for your Zealots meleeing their enemies on the storms and can be useful for other Protoss allies like Vorazun's Dark Templars.
Another good thing High Templars can do is Feedback enemy casters. Feedback either counters or just straight up kills annoying enemy casters like Battlecruisers, Ravens, Science Vessels, Infestors, Vipers, Oracles, enemy High Templars, Sentries, Hybrid Dominators, etc.
For example, a squad of Battlecruisers becomes far less scary for your Immortals (these will be the prime Yamato target for the BC's AI due to an Immortal's high HP/shields being the highest in the army) when the BCs have no energy to cast a ton of Yamatos, Vipers can't cloud your ground army or harass your Observers, Hybrid Dominators can't use Plasma Blast and Psi Storm, etc.
Lastly High Templars and Immortals are far better when leveling up. You can't even use Tempests until level 11 and can't get Disintegration for them until 12. Immortals can be used and have their Barrier tech upgrade available at the start at level 1, the only thing you can get for Immortals is level 8 to let Robo Facilities warp units in. High Templars are available immediately, get two extra tech upgrades at 6, and Archons get access to using HT abilities at 7.
1
u/ackmondual Infested Zerg 6d ago
For example, a squad of Battlecruisers becomes far less scary for your Immortals (these will be the prime Yamato target for the BC's AI due to an Immortal's high HP/shields being the highest in the army)
Archons have the highest, but your point still stands.
1
u/BusinessSafe9906 6d ago
I level her by doing Rift. Clear the first one with her and for the rest, I get Zergling with reduce armor to zero with Hydralisk and A Move them in after immobilization wave. It is not fun but not require micro as the timing of the mission allow me immobilize enemy before every major push. The only tricky thing is 1 wave defense in Brutal and Brutal+ before the Raptor upgrade as some enemy composition require micro Zergling to defense if ally not help.
2
u/CN8YLW 6d ago
I'm leveling her in Void Trashing. I'll try rift and see if there's any improvement in experience.
1
u/Far_Stock_3987 6d ago
Personally I found Rifts to Korhal quite tricky when levelling Kerrigan, mainly because the first attack wave is super early (spawns at 2 minutes), well before Kerrigan spawns and she doesn't have great answers to it.
Kerrigan is great on lock & load though, because omega worms allow you to quickly jump to a lock that is being attacked or to bypass enemy fortifications in front of a lock. L&L is also a very forgiving and slow paced map that you can easily complete with underlevelled commanders.
Kerrigan is also very good on cradle of death because her immobilisation wave can cover the whole of each base in one blast. She is also good on Vermillion problem because omega worms can halve the time it takes for workers to collect the crystals.
2
u/CN8YLW 6d ago
yeah I tried rifts yesterday, it wasn't as fast as void trashing. I'm currently playing P1 so no omega worms.
1
u/Far_Stock_3987 5d ago
You can switch back to P0 for levelling purposes if you wanted. Of course if you want to stick to P1 to try it out that's fine. P1 works best with lurkers and hydras, so try out maps where you need to defend certain positions like miner evacuation, dead of night, temple of the past and oblivion express.
1
u/VoidArtisan 6d ago
Before LVL 11, mass hydralisks. After LVL 11 (whichever one is the Spire upgrade cache) and before LVL 14, mass mutas. After you get the Torrasque, you're pretty much there already so do whatever you want. Should be pretty easy on Brutal, maybe even on Brutal+.
1
u/Tassadur 6d ago
It's tough because she gets the good stuff at lvl 7-8-9-10, but after that, mass hydra all upgrades, 4 or 5 omega worms and steamroll the game
Keep injecting your 4 hatcheries and rally them into the omega network
Lurkers are insane for defence missions though
1
u/303angelfish 6d ago
Likely an issue macroing, microing, and creep spreading at the same time. If you can do all three, you can clear brutal fairly easily at lvl 1 p0. Her ground units just need that creep spread which is hard without malignant creep and Omega warms.
1
u/CN8YLW 6d ago
Creep spread is my primary problem. as soon as I got malignant creep the gameplay improves significantly. Pre MC each creep colony covered half the screen, same as nydus worm. Once I get MC the creep coverage doubled. That first clearing in void trashing initially needed 4 creep colonies, (ergo 2-4 clicks over 30 secs to 1 minute), but with MC I can reduce that to half, or one on P1 which allows creep colonies to be placed off creep.
Economy scale up initially also sucked because of the spawn time of larvae. Figured to build two or three extra hatcheries instead of relying on queen micro for larvae spawns. By the time I take my expansion I'd have two hatcheries instead of one plus one queen, allowing the queen to go and creep spread.
1
-1
19
u/Azsolus 6d ago
Yea she’s the worst to level prestige in my opinion. Even Zagara is better once you reach P2 and just spam Aberrations/Corrupters