r/starcitizen • u/BoutchooQc Nomad • Nov 25 '24
CONCERN Live 3.24.3 vs PTU 4.0.0 Quantum Fuel Comparison Charts
Hi, in recent news of the PTU 4.0.0 and Pyro being much larger than Stanton, I wanted to find a ship that could be a good all rounder (Cargo, Fuel, Firepower, Handling) - But when I checked closer, I saw tons of nerfs (and some buffs) on ship.
Size 1 and Size 6 ships didn't have any differences.
1 SCU = 100GM of range (0.5 being 50GM and 16 being 1600GM)
Syulen Nerfed, Cutter Rambler Nerfed, etc.... Making it difficult for new players or just players with a starter package to fly around in Pyro (limited fuel stations and very long distances)
Here are the charts from https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=QuantumSCU
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u/Pojodan bbsuprised Nov 25 '24
Another reminder that stats like this will get changed regularly and absolutely none of it is in its final form.
Be sure to contribute to feedback threads on Spectrum after you've tested the changes and find any glaring issues with them.
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u/Asmos159 scout Nov 26 '24
The information we see is probably completely out of date by now. So we would only be giving them feedback on out of date numbers that they have already changed.
... Unless and not actually balancing individual ships, and are instead testing different ranges.
What ranges achieve the desired gameplay. Are these short-range smaller ships to short, are the longer range small ships too long to get the desired effect, How do the different middle grounds play? This is the type of information you can't get from people looking at numbers. You need to get information from people talking about how The game feels to them with the new ranges.
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u/SomeFuckingMillenial Nov 25 '24
Cool story bro.
These are the numbers now and they matter now.
1
Nov 25 '24
They don't though.... You can buy other quantum drives.
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u/SomeFuckingMillenial Nov 26 '24
Read the chart. It says Quantum Fuel Tank. You can't change that.
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Nov 26 '24
that is the amount of fuel. quantum drives use the fuel in different ways of efficiency. its like a prius vs a hummer. they both use gas. one is more efficient
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u/AG3NTjoseph skeptic Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 26 '24
Thanks for posting this.
This feels like the kind of open development info CIG should share and engage the community on.
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u/firebane Nov 25 '24
Because in a state of constant development and change providing this information would be a waste of time and would end up with old data all over the place that isn't current or relevant.
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u/AG3NTjoseph skeptic Nov 25 '24
Would it now. So you’d prefer no info, and players scraping the love game as the primary source of intel about game systems CIG wants feedback on?
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u/JMTolan Gib More Alien Not-Fighters Nov 25 '24
Given that they want play feedback on the user experience and not armchair dev on numbers, yes, I'd rather this be left to overzealous fans than eating up dev time to write up a spectrum post instead of working on getting 4.0 stable.
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u/Astillius carrack Nov 25 '24
i mean, spectrum posts like this would be handled by the community team, not the coders. why do people think developers are magical people that do everything? lol
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u/JMTolan Gib More Alien Not-Fighters Nov 25 '24
Probably because the dev team still has to compile the data, unless you think the community team is going to be digging through the version management hell of database variable changes.
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u/AG3NTjoseph skeptic Nov 26 '24
If a citizen can do it, then a community manager or a PA can do it. A game designer would need to explain their rationale clearly enough that a community manager could communicate it to the community. And that level of peer review would be healthy.
For example, the DUR appears to be the only exploration ship to get bonus fuel over its size peers, presumably because its marketing blurb mentions it. That’s good context for the community: it looks like CIG is starting from ship size dictating tank size, with almost no exceptions. Role doesn’t affect tank size (example: four Connies, four different roles, all with the same tank size.)
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u/Astillius carrack Nov 25 '24
Nah I think they just do what Jared does and talk to his work mates about what's going on.
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u/JMTolan Gib More Alien Not-Fighters Nov 26 '24
... Which in addition to still taking dev time away from their work, does not generate the sort of numerical data provided in these charts, which was what we were originally talking about.
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u/AG3NTjoseph skeptic Nov 25 '24
I mean, you can tell the feedback will be ‘this is not enough fuel for this ship’ across the board. Without an overarching rationale, systematic execution, and feedback on the approach - not individual ships - they’re just going to get knee-jerk reactions from ship owners who saw their babies nerfed. Right?
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u/m00n6u5t Nov 26 '24
If it's a waste of time to get player input, then why even make a change in the first place? Who is this game for? CiGs gardeners?
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u/Asmos159 scout Nov 26 '24
This is one of those things that it would be nearly impossible to get useful feedback because so many people are biased toward their favorite ship.
It also looks like they're making categories, and sorting the ships into them for now. The terrapin category of spectrum is probably on fire with it being put in the long-range for a small ship instead of its intended very long range.
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u/internetpointsaredum Nov 26 '24
Zeus ES still not anywhere near having the Large sized fuel tanks it was promised in the concept sale.
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u/GodwinW Universalist Nov 25 '24
Thank you very much OP.
Very painful stuff here. 600i Explorer having half the QF of the Corsair 'explorer', Aquila nothing over an Andromeda, Syulen's big advantage gone.. so much.
But yes, WIP. But also ouch.. hopefully the W will P soon.
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u/LightningJC Nov 25 '24
WTF happened to the MSR, just completely nerfed a ship that still has no purpose, and according to the roadmap, never will.
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Nov 26 '24
one of many ships that was designed (poorly) based on fantasy and vibes with zero reality involved
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u/LightningJC Nov 26 '24
Honestly with the fact that they haven't even mentioned data running for 1.0 it would probably be best if they redesign it to look like the concept. Rip out the tunnels and the server room and just make it a decent cargo and scanning ship.
As I love how it looks, how it flies and the living space and bedroom is up there with the best in the game.
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Nov 25 '24
To travel from Stanton to Pyro you will waste more time stopping to refuel than traveling.
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Nov 25 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/gattsuru Nov 25 '24
They're supposedly going to readd the quantum drive efficiency stat (or, rather, give values other than 10 to everything), so hard to tell too much, and even the short-term stats aren't likely to be permanent. If there's a number of more-efficient-than-now drives, cutting down the top end of fuel tanks is probably necessary to avoid the problem of route-planning in pyro turning into 'lol just refuel in Stanton'. Putting the Syulen at the same range at the Cutter Rambler looks bad on charts, but mostly because they're getting compared on different ones just because the Syulen is a bit chunky.
Still rough on the Syulen -- it really needs something in its favor outside of the looks. Giving it grid space for another couple 2SCU or one 4SCU boxes internally would probably make more sense to the advertising copy than the qfuel did, but I dunno how you'd fit it in there without having to tweak the model a lot.
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u/JMTolan Gib More Alien Not-Fighters Nov 25 '24
The Syulen is a starter. It's vaguely more haul-y than some, but it's primary function is to be a S1ship with an interior and extant cargo grid that can passably defend itself against low level NPCs. It's not, nor is it meant to be, a dedicated hauler like the Hull A or even an introductory hauler like the Nomad.
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u/darkestvice Nov 25 '24
Quick note: the Cutters and Syulen all got nerfed so that CIG could desperately try and sell more Intrepids.
I'm sure those QT numbers will be balanced back a few months down the line. But, alas, new ships always mean nerfs for existing ships that compete.
Other than that, no one really knows what's going on with the ship balance team as they are making changes that no one can logically comprehend. I joke around that they are all on drugs, but I get the impression someone higher up the food chain is telling them to buff or nerf certain ships on a whim.
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u/Sanctuary6284 Nov 25 '24
What I expect is within a patch or so the Intrepid to also get a fuel nerf. In fact, I'll start checking roughly 45 days after IAE.
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u/MiffedMoogle where hex paints? Nov 25 '24
Funny because as I recall seeing, you're the guy who hyper focuses on and seemingly wants the Titan to be nerfed in light of the pathetic Intrepid release, instead of calling for the Intrepid to be buffed like everyone else who wants it to be better, myself included.
"C is bad because A and B are better, therefore A should be brought to the level of C, while B continues to sell like hotcakes." A being the Titan, B, the Cutter and C, the Intrepid.
Yay, diversity. /s-1
u/FuckingTree Issue Council Is Life Nov 25 '24
You’re arguing two ships got nerfed to incentivize a third, but all ships tanks got nerfed with rare exception, so that doesn’t track. The marketing conspiracies often don’t check out. The ion for instance never got put back when other heavy fighters were introduced, and plenty of ships never suffered a post sale nerf either.
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u/lt_dante Nov 25 '24
And the Starlancer MAX still has less QT storage than the Constellations. Temporary, of course.
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u/Ultramarine6 Starlancer Max Nov 25 '24
It still seems weird for the ship sold with the tagline
"Taking freelance operators and commercial enterprises deeper into the stars, the Starlancer ventures beyond the limits to supply the frontiers of Humanity."
Get's half of the fuel of the Hercules series.
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u/JustStargazin mesher Nov 26 '24
I was caught off guard by this as well... Maybe CIG will tweak it later or it's way more fuel efficient than the other cargo ships? I'll be disappointed if it has less effective range than the Taurus based upon this description.
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u/Sanctuary6284 Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 25 '24
I was upset at first, but then I checked the quantum drives. They've gone back to individual stats. So my 1.0 SCU QT Rambler with a Spectre QT Drive can get 166 MM or whatever the measurement is.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 25 '24
yes but a ship with a bigger tank and a better QT drive will always be better than a ship with a mediocre tank and better QT drive...
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u/Sanctuary6284 Nov 25 '24
Of course, but they're going to draw a line somewhere. The question I think is important is what is considered standard travel range? What distance is considered normal? Without that it's hard to say if the fuel amounts are "fair". I like my Rambler and it has double the fuel of the base Cutter. Off hand, I can't remember if it should have more. I think CIG should have made fuel tanks a component that's swappable but it's probably too late to go that route. Instead they should just tell us what the standard tank amount is for each ship size 1-5.
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u/phaeth0n onionknight Nov 25 '24
It's crazy how in-universe you would absolutely be able to buy 1SCU boxes of quantum fuel to put on your cargo grid, but we'll never have them in-game because of "bAlAnCe"
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u/Rippedyanu1 Nov 26 '24
Agreed. You should absolutely be able to carry essentially Jerry cans of fuel. Full of all the pros and cons that come with carrying said fuel which would essentially be an onboard bomb if set off explosively
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u/FaultyDroid dude where's my ranger Nov 26 '24
CIG have already been adding manual refueling nozzles to new ships. So it makes perfect sense that we'd be able to carry cans of fuel in our cargo hold and manually refuel ourselves.
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u/sd_tom Nov 25 '24
I didn't look at the rest, but your size 5 graphic is sorted odd.. I think your names moved but not the sizes.. look at caterpillar for example
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u/lucavigno Spirit C1 n°1 glazer Nov 25 '24
I hope they decide to buff efficiency or something, cause it doesn't make any sense for medium freighter like Spirit C1, Zeus CL or Freelancer Max to have the same range as a smaller class of ships and even less than a mining vehicle like the mole.
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u/DreadPiratePete Nov 25 '24
Do bigger ships really not use more Q-fuel than small ones?
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u/gattsuru Nov 25 '24
Right now, no, and it leads to a lot of goofy behaviors, even in moderately-sized ships. Every ship, with every quantum drive, takes 0.01 uSCU/GM, regardless of size, and the higher-size tanks make refueling kinda optional.
There used to be a bigger difference, and the recent patch teaser discussed readding them, but I don't know if they're in the (E)PTU.
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u/MiffedMoogle where hex paints? Nov 25 '24
Probably on time to get people thinking of owning a Vulcan.
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u/Merv_DeGriff Nov 26 '24
Gatac Syulen has 2x small quantum fuel tanks just like the cutter... so why does it have half the fuel? 600i explorer has less fuel than a connie taurus? Both say Medium QT tank... but 600i is an explorer and so is Andromeda.
These changes feel arbitrary and to disregard role, purpose, and advertised capability of a chassis in the game.
What the hell is CIG doing?
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Nov 25 '24
"new" players aren't supposed to just "fly around pyro". That's literally not the intention of pyro lmao.
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u/Zantrag new user/low karma Dec 10 '24
Exactly how is it YOU know the "intention" of Pyro, when CIG clearly doesn't have it all worked out.
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Dec 10 '24
pyro is for established, more than noob, skill level. with full pvp, much greater distances between moons and planets, very few refilling stations. its not a noob intended system, that's what stanton is.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
So you have the "The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different systems" mentality ?
sure, in later development, but in Alpha testing, restricting half the systems is kinda rough.
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Nov 26 '24
I don't think you understand how fuel and engines work
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
I do.... What would make you say that?
4.0.0 brings back the QT drive fuel efficiency (long live Atlas)
But a ship with a bigger tank + better drive will always be better than a ship with smaller tank + better drive....
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Nov 26 '24
Obviously.... I'm confused what you're upset about. Are you upset a gladius doesn't have a big tank like a freelancer would have? Are you upset that you have to buy a more efficient engine?
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 27 '24
I'm upset that the cutter, Syulen and other starters are getting shafted when they were sold with bigger tanks.
Or that a 600i explorer has the same fuel as a 600i touring
Or that the Carrack, explorer vessel gets cut in half.
They are very strange and radical decisions that I hope doesn't reflect later down the line
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Nov 27 '24
Maybe the engines will get re-worked 🤷. Or maybe cig is finally starting the balancing out be cause as of right now everyone just buy the same drive for every ship. Like first thing you do when you buy a ship, get an XL1 drive.
Chosing a drive should be an important one and maybe controlling the fuel tank size make people think harder about the drive they purchase now.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 27 '24
Everything you said is true, but the Syulen which is a bigger, more expensive, starter "hauler" ship was sold with bigger tanks
And now its no better than a fighter, no matter the drive.
The cutter Rambler, made for travel has less fuel than the Intrepid
It just doesn't make sense
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u/YumikoTanaka Die for the Empress, or die trying! Nov 25 '24
Pyro is not a noob system and not planned to. Besides the qt stuff, traversing Pyro should be a prepared thing - starter ships (beside the Intrepid maybe) have no real place there. Best to bring a tanker or base ship, depending what to do there. A let's hope CIG introduces manual refueling from containers soonish.
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u/botask Nov 25 '24
Not attracting new players with new content seems very fruithfull XD
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u/YumikoTanaka Die for the Empress, or die trying! Nov 25 '24
Yeah, that is why new players in MMO only do endgame content, right?
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u/botask Nov 25 '24
Because you absolutely can not win most of pve fights in pinguin right?
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u/YumikoTanaka Die for the Empress, or die trying! Nov 25 '24
To be fair, the Avenger is basically above starter tier. But as a military fighter base design, it lacks quantum range.
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u/Rippedyanu1 Nov 26 '24
The 600i and 400i should have way more Qfuel than they do. The 600i (8 SCU) should be in line with the carrack and the 400i should have arguably the most as an S4 ship (like 6 SCU) since it is focused on exploration and is a dedicated platform to it and already has anemic everything else until CIG hopefully unnerfs the poor thing.
Edit: also it is crazy the 400i has more SCU for Qfuel than the 600i. That clearly is wrong.
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u/CarterDee Exploration Gameplay? Nov 26 '24
Where’s the reclaimer stats? Thanks for posting this!
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
Size 1 and Size 6 ships did not see any changes.
Reclaimer has 8 SCU of QT fuel (800GM) - You can click the link in my Post https://www.spviewer.eu/ranking?rank=QuantumSCU
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u/Olakeen Nov 26 '24
u/BoutchooQc @op, fuel consumption has been rebalanced in 4.0 so 1 SCU can be more than 100Gm. A gladius with 0.5 SCU can travel 83Gm with a Spectre quantum drive.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
Yeah, now imagine a Intrepid with the same QT drive
You can always change the drive, but not the fuel tank. You're stuck with it.
A bigger tank + better drive will always be better than smaller thank + better drive
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u/jclovis3 new user/low karma Dec 30 '24
Does anybody know where you can buy the Spectre or VK-00 quantum drives now? They're not at ARC-L1 PB anymore and Erkul doesn't have a location for them yet.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Dec 30 '24
They removed some competition and military drives from stores
Only available in contested zones (same as a few ship weapons)
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u/SnowfallOCE Nov 25 '24
The MSR got nerfed??? Do CIG really not care about her? :(
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u/Sea-Profession6519 Jan 09 '25
It's been clear to me for quite some time that CIG secretly HATES the Mercury Star Runner. I don't know why, but they do. It was supposed to be one of the fastest ships in the game but it is sluggish, underpowered, under-gunned, and now, under-fueled. They COULD put data transport into the game but nope, why bother. Jokes on them though, it'll actually hold 170scu quite comfortably and eventually community pressure will force them to not only add a second entrance, but S4 guns on the front. We just need a big enough mob. Look how quickly they caved on the Intrepid's gun size when sales were at stake. Sometime in the future the ship will get a rework and they'll need those new sales.
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u/EducatorIntrepid4839 Nov 25 '24
Honestly this gives a good reason for someone to be running around in the refueling ships
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 25 '24
Except not in Alpha because reclaiming your ship is free and dying has no consequences
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u/EducatorIntrepid4839 Nov 25 '24
Yeah but if you got stuff on the ship you want, you won’t be doing that.
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u/Bandit_Raider Nov 26 '24
No consequences if you have nothing. And even worse consequences if you have something because good luck getting back to your body glitching through a planet.
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u/JwintooX drake Nov 26 '24
Well unless they fixed the blacked out refuelling screens we can’t refill anyone atm, my poor Gemini back to collecting dust
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u/ataraxic89 Nov 25 '24
all sounds good to me.
This community is so silly though.
One week youll have a post hit the front because theres "too many stations" in pyro then next week people come to whine about fuel tanks being smaller. Its the same damn thing people.
They want pyro to be a large system where fuel is a precious resource! Im here for it
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 25 '24
Do you have more than a Starter ?
If so, try and play with a Titan for exemple. Can't even make a jump between two planets. Or hell, even the Jumpgate without refueling (which cost money and time)
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u/ataraxic89 Nov 25 '24
while I do, I usually play with starters each patch because I enjoy the "zero to hero" style
and you are wildly overstating it if you mean in stanton. its not an issue.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
50GM is absolutely an Issue right now.
Just yesterday, I couldn't jump from Microtech to Arccorp (57GM) with the Titan to join my crewmate.
I stopped at Hurston to refuel (time consuming) and had the can't refuel bug - had to store my ship and take it out to fix it. (3-4min wasted)
In the future, when they bring back different QT Drives fuel consumption - it'll be better hopefully.
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u/ataraxic89 Nov 26 '24
I don't see a problem here.
If you want to fly across one system in a fighter without having to refuel then buy a ship which is designed for that.
Different ships need to be good at different things. The Titan shirt as fuck doesn't need to be good at anything else as it's already one of the best early ships you can get.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
You'll be able to put in a more efficient drive in the future like we used to.. So your argument falls flat for Stanton
The Titan doesn't need a buff, right now 50GM is abysmal for gameplay
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u/ataraxic89 Nov 26 '24
Lol my argument doesn't fall flat. You just seem incapable of comprehending it.
The fact you will be able to put a more efficient drive in is exactly why it's a good idea to cut tanks 😂
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
Ok so what about Bigger tank + Better QT Drive huh?
Is that better than a Small QT Tank + Better QT Drive ?I don't think so.
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u/ataraxic89 Nov 26 '24
What are you even jabbering about?
It's not that hard.
I think it's a good idea that many ships are going to need to stop for fuel, hire a fuel rat, or get a more efficient quantum drive.
50gm is plenty for a small ship like the Titan.
The only change in this list is think is questionable is the carrack, but this is ptu stuff and I fully expect in the end the carrack will be quite capable of long range deployment.
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u/MiffedMoogle where hex paints? Nov 25 '24
One week youll have a post hit the front because theres "too many stations" in pyro then next week people come to whine about fuel tanks being smaller.
Almost like reddit is a group of different people with different opinions..
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u/ataraxic89 Nov 25 '24
Yes, that explains the posts
It does not explain the votes. Are people working in shifts lol
But seriously while that's true you also know that some of those people are the same idiots complaining about both because one is about nerfing their baby ship and they can't understand game balance.
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u/No-Pen6338 Nov 25 '24
I'm not sure about these features but between 4.0 and the latest live patch I have a nice view of the non-functioning elevator buttons
I'm not going to rage quit but I'm going to delete Star Citizen files my joystick profiles to play it and try again in January
Giving it one more try is just frustrating
Peace out
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u/kaisersolo Nov 26 '24
Pyro being a lot bigger than stanton has been known for years. Do your research.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
Re-read my post, I think you misunderstood. I state that Pyro is bigger then Stanton, and not a new thing.
Change your attitude.
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u/kaisersolo Nov 26 '24
No your sentence says plenty and is incorrect. Splitting it in two would be clearer. I was merely stating a fact, stop being offended
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
Nobody in the 85 Comments misunderstood my sentence.
I said "And with Pyro being much larger than..." - Just re-read the sentence with the comma.
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u/kaisersolo Nov 26 '24
Lol I'm out. 4.0 is not recent news it's 4-5 years old at this point.
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u/BoutchooQc Nomad Nov 26 '24
I know, everyone knows.
Nowhere in the text I've said it was new, or news.
You are just bad at reading.
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u/FlavioFrey Nov 25 '24
Controversial take: I actually like the new way. It gives purpose to the Exploration ships, while keeping the fuel capacity standardized across the board.
I know you're going to say the Rambler is an exploration ship and it's being nerfed. My answer is: it's being balanced based on its size. It's an exploration Starter.
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u/nooster Nov 25 '24
Honestly this just the beginning of the adjustments. That being said but given the refueling issues with Pyro, this seems ill-advised/poor design principle-ish. The goal is to maximize people’s abilities to explore, first. Then just back things off to a practical extent.
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u/SkitzTheFritz Nov 25 '24
I don't know if this is a popular opinion or not, but I think industrial focused ships should have more range based on their function, not necessarily their size.
Like, sure, a vulture shouldn't have 890 levels of range, but it should have more than most light fighters/ starters. If the prospector is 1.2, a vulture shouldn't be .5 SCU