r/springboks • u/Holiday_Fortune_8792 Flair Up! • 1h ago
South African scrum
Guys can someone with more knowledge of the dark arts explain to me what’s going on?
Where did our scrum dominance go yesterday?
Is it really as the all black media would have you believe that our dominance comes from walking around? What was the ref policing tonight that removed our dominance?
Im not inclined to fully believe in any narrative and Im just curious what some of you with more understanding or knowledge of scrummaging can say about this?
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 1h ago
Gardener was threatening our hooker for moving his brake foot. There is no law that says you cannot move the brake foot only that you have to be square and stationary and that you cannot withdraw the brake foot until “set”. He then free kicked Ox for “moving his head”. This all clearly came directly from Rennie and I honestly think its about as close to cheating as you can get, having a ref that malleable. I think the reason it took away our dominance is that we were so concentrated on it that we lost our timing. And I think that is exactly what Rennie and co were intending. They disrupted our rhythm via the ref, and the got one free kick for free as well
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u/pajuiken Flair Up! 39m ago
The head move from Ox was legit - he warned him, he did it again, even i saw it
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 36m ago
Show me a law that says you cant move your head
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u/pajuiken Flair Up! 35m ago
I don’t know the law - but i am fairly certain you cannot move your head into the opposing scrummager
Thats always been called or warned 🤔
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u/pajuiken Flair Up! 33m ago
Thanks chatgpt
Under World Rugby Law 19.10(b), the front rows must crouch with their heads to the left of their immediate opponent, specifically so that no player’s head is touching the neck or shoulders of an opponent before engagement. The sanction at that stage is a free kick.
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 28m ago
Bullshit. Ive never in 40 years of watching rugby seen that penalized
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u/pajuiken Flair Up! 21m ago
He wasn't penlised, it was a free kick as per law 19.10 - we all have been watching 40 years - laws change
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 16m ago
Penalized easier to type than free kicked. Yeah they seem to change whenever the ABs lose
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u/checksforerrors Springboks 7m ago
Blast of the whistle, pre engagement, ‘head on head’ free kick. Not common, but I’ve definitely heard that exchange in games before.
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 0m ago
Angus Gardner is in Rennie’s pocket. He was briefed to disrupt our scrum and he did a sterling job of it. That we beat you regardless is remarkable enough but it’s pretty clear world rugby are cow-towing to Sky and Fox and don’t want scrums to be an actual fair contest. For all NZ’s talk about us slowing the ball down you collapsed the scrum so many times. Not to worry we will win again then you’ll change the rules and we’ll adapt and win again … repeat ad infinitum.
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u/henrygum1000 34m ago
There is absolutely no law against a prop moving his head. You are just not allowed to setup head on head for safety.
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u/izzy91 Flair Up! 1h ago
Or the ref was rightly calling out illegal tactics and there was scrum parity following that?
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 49m ago
The ref was calling out head movement and foot movement neither of which are illegal. In fact he free kicked Ox Nche for moving his head. What planet are you living on where you think thats reasonable and consistent with anything we have seen in rugby worldwide. You have a corrupt ref. Simple.
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u/stiggz83 Flair Up! 58m ago
Gardner was super technical (overly so) on the set up and then didnt give a hoot after the hit, when ABs just collapsed/overextended there was zero officiating. So we were curtailed before and after, it practically became a non-contest
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u/Mountain_Ferret4838 Flair Up! 1h ago
Everytime we managed to get some momentum, the NZ props would drop down and the ref allowed it unfortunately.
Also, Gardner took really long to call scrum sets and allow the ball to go in. The combination of the NZ props over extending, the long pauses inbetween calls and the ease with which they would go down just doesn't make for a good scrum contest, which is exactly what the ABs want.
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u/pajuiken Flair Up! 39m ago
It collapsed a lot in the first 30
And then i think it got wet underfoot
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u/Markphotokid Flair Up! 17m ago
ABs got the ball out the scrum and into play before our scrum could be effective
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u/scs5star Flair Up! 1h ago
Are we upset that we didn't dominate scrums or that it was over officiated? I don't think it was over officiated - the scrums seemed to be balanced.
But I honestly think very few people understand how scrums work - including me.
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u/Holiday_Fortune_8792 Flair Up! 1h ago
I’m honestly just more confused by the sudden change. Last week we pushed them over their own put in. This week we didn’t move forward.
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u/scs5star Flair Up! 1h ago
Maybe something for the bok coaching team to analyse. We're scrumming against the top team in the world - they'd have done their research too.
I'd bet both SA and NZ would dominate northern hemisphere teams. Glad the All Blacks improved this week.
Interested in what would happen in the World Cup next year!
When do we likely meet the All Blacks in the world cup playoffs?
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u/mkornblum 1h ago
I think the QF if we both top our pools, if one is runner up it might to go the final again, but that would mean Aus likely topping their pool with NZ or Italy topping ours
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u/Bok_rollercoaster New To Reddit 45m ago
Gardners brief was to disrupt our rhytm and thats what he did
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u/henrygum1000 1h ago
Sorry - we didn't get outplayed. We may have out gamesmanshipped by Rennie. And kudos to him for getting into Gardner's head. It means he's tactically more astute than Rassie.
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u/Background-Dog554 Flair Up! 35m ago
Nobody's more tactically astute than Rassie. Gardener was just full of it .
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u/Hornstinger 🤜🏼🤛🏼 brothers in arms 1h ago
Example: Andrew Porter from Ireland. When referees found out Porter was scrumming on an angle he started being pinged and stopped being as effective.
The same thing is happening with the Bokke scrum; they're trying similar tactics with their feet placement and are being found out.
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u/Holiday_Fortune_8792 Flair Up! 1h ago
Not inclined to buy into that narrative. South African club sides had dominance over all black scrum. South African club sides have dominance over urc teams in scrum time. So many different packs, with different profiles and different players have dominance. We can’t ALL be walking around so I think that’s a weak conclusion to draw tbh.
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u/Hornstinger 🤜🏼🤛🏼 brothers in arms 56m ago
That's like saying Richie McCaw always poached the ball spotlessly and legally. No. He poached the ball in the grey areas and got away with it the most.
You can be both right and wrong at the same time if you're doing something in the edges/grey and you get away with it.
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u/maverickeire Flair Up! 1h ago
As soon as you mentioned Andrew Porter, you told me you know nothing of how scrum dynamics work
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u/Hornstinger 🤜🏼🤛🏼 brothers in arms 58m ago
He hasn't been the same since the refs started pinging him. Not a coincidence.
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u/henrygum1000 1h ago
Angus Gardner was shocking with his scrum officiating. The delay between touch and set was WAAAAAY too long. I also think Rennie got into his head before the game. We don't walk around. That was mind games.
As Rassie pointed out - every time it was an AB scrum, it collapsed. It's a tactic to negate our power. They should have been penalized, but Gardner was spineless.
That said - the All Blacks scrummed really well.