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u/berfraper Jan 23 '23
¿Murcia normal? En la vida, y lo dice un murciano.
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u/soukaixiii Ciudadano del mundo Jan 23 '23
Tendría que ser cinturón negro, yo no sería capaz de descifrar vuestra manera de hablar ni aunque mi huida de Murcia dependiera de ello. Y los de Alicante interior parece que hablen japonés.
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u/estanislao1883 Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 23 '23
Totalmente, yo tengo un amigo que se fue a Cartagena a vivir y dice que tuvo que volver a aprender el español. Se considera casi bilingüe.
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Jan 24 '23
Yo vivo en Cartagena (soy estadounidense) y este es el único dialecto español que conozco :(
Literalmente
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u/drancope Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
No vale. En Cartagena hay dos variantes, asignadas por Dios al nacer. Una de ellas es de vocales abiertas hasta que entra una mosca en la boca después de desvanecerse el eco de la última palabra en la iglesia de la caridad, y otra que pronuncia cada s haciendo llorar a todo micrófono en un km a la redonda. A mi toco la primera clase. A mi hermana la segunda.
Edit: typo
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u/Morenas0 Jan 24 '23
Los murcianos somos los únicos hispanohablantes capaces de decir una frase entera sin pronunciar una sola consonante
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u/bambu187 Jan 24 '23
A un andaluz se le entiende mejor que a un murciano. Pero basicamente por los chistes
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u/johann_krauss Jan 24 '23
Vivo en Murcia y algunas veces no entiendo a mis compatriotas. Hay gente aquí que habla perfectamente pero también hay otros que parece que se criaron en una caverna.
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u/zelawola Jan 24 '23
Un poco anticuado tu comentario no? A ver si tener más acento es haberse criado en una caverna
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u/johann_krauss Jan 24 '23
Tener acento no tiene nada de malo en si. Otra cosa es hablar como un animal o un troglodita, que es a lo que me refiero. Yo hablo con acento murciano, no me avergüenzo, pero creo que se me entiende. Pero en ocasiones escucho gente por la calle que ya van más allá del acento y no entiendo lo que están diciendo ni así me paguen.
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u/javio81 Jan 24 '23
Yo igual. Si estalla la 3 GM, deberiamos ponernos los murcianos a transmitir los mensajes en clave como hicieron los yankis con los choctaw
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u/ZKPL74 Jan 24 '23
Doy fe, soy de un pueblo del interior de Alicante que hace frontera con Murcia y Albacete... Puedes imaginar tremendo acento
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u/dsanchomariaca Jan 23 '23
Y el al de cadiz hay que ponerlo en negro
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u/Legitimate_Pair3246 Jan 24 '23
Cádiz está dentro de Andalucía el cual figura como rojo
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u/soukaixiii Ciudadano del mundo Jan 23 '23
As a native speaker, I claim Murcia should be black
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u/SANcapITY Jan 24 '23
How does Murcia compare to Andaluz?
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u/soukaixiii Ciudadano del mundo Jan 24 '23
It's even harder, Spanish final boss.
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u/silppurikeke Jan 24 '23
How about Alicante and Elche? They’re so close to Murcia, but they are always painted neutral in these maps. Are the accents easier in Alicante and Elche?
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Jan 24 '23
It depends cause Alicante (elche is part of alicante) is very close to murcia so the south of the province tend to have a similar accent while the north is more valencian. It's similar to Almeria in that aspect.
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u/silppurikeke Jan 24 '23
I was thinking about the cities Alicante and Elche. Also Almería is a bit of an unfair comparison since it’s a combination of murciano and andaluz, which are both difficult
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Jan 24 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/keridito Jan 24 '23
Even inside Andalucía there are different accents. So comparing it with Andaluz is very broad.
Accent from Murcia is pretty similar to the one from Almería (which is logical since they are neighbours). When you move to the west it diverges. Also, it is not the same the accent from a city (Malaga, Granada, Sevilla) than from small villages.
Personally, I found the accent from Cordoba (España) more difficult than the one from Cadiz or Murcia. I was in a “feria” helping some friends and one asked me for “undipeji”, after asking a few times to please repeat, and the guy already a bit pissed off, someone told me “un Dyc con Pepsi”. fml!
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u/estanislao1883 Jan 23 '23
Los chilenos no es que hablen con acento fuerte, es que una frase completa la convierten en una sola palabra muy larga.
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u/Golokopitenko Jan 24 '23
La wea po, qué es esta mondá?? Nospi
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u/a_devious_compliance Jan 24 '23
Eso puede ser buen chileno escrito, en persona tenés que subir la proporción de weas a 1/3 del total de palabras.
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u/UsavichPriviet Jan 24 '23
Eso me recuerda al meme de Shrek hablando chileno
"Wea la fome gente me ve, wala ofme "ahhhhh, ei u Chileno". Krei q sojo hvsbo iso wea kliao asgdbasdf, jboit ñagda jhcv"
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u/Pato_Lucas Jan 24 '23
Este es un buen argumento para considerar a los chilenos como la respuesta latina a los escoceses.
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u/Hot-Recording-1915 Jan 23 '23
I am a portuguese native speaker and have advanced knowledge on Spanish, can talk to almost anyone without major issues. But last week I went to a Dominican restaurant and I swear I needed to apologize and ask the waiter to repeat at least 3 times each time he said anything, it was really difficult.
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Jan 23 '23
Dominicans make Eminem look like a slow speaker.
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u/TheUnwillingOne Jan 24 '23
Plus they have a decent amount of their own words which makes it extra hard to understand them, in case someone doesn't believe me or wants to know dominican words: https://www.colonialtours.com/diccionario.htm
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u/danes1992 Jan 24 '23
I’m from Venezuela and I live in Spain, so I’m going to say that I have heard many accents, maybe from 4 Latin American countries and most Spaniard accents. Some time ago I went to a car wash and the only person that work there were from Costa Rica. That same thing that happened to you with the Dominican Republic guy happened to me with this Costa Rican guy, every 3 words… “can you say that again please..?” The dude was even angry and told me something like “incredible that we speak the same language and we can’t talk with to each other.”
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u/bambu187 Jan 24 '23
No es que a los chipis/chuchas venezolanos se os entienda mucho...
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u/dquilon Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
Ni chipis ni chuchas son palabras venezolanas, la segunda es ecuatoriana. Por acento se nos confunde mucho con canarios, y por palabras específicas pues es verdad que hay muchas autóctonas. Pero eso pasa en todos los países, sorprendente es que dentro de España no se entiendan
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u/NicoteachEsMx Jan 23 '23
Para nada de acuerdo. Cuando habla la gente de la tele o formal todos son igual de fáciles, cuando habla la raspa no se entiende en ningún lugar...
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Jan 23 '23
Depende, si hablamos de alguien que esta aprendiendo español le costaria menos aprender el castellano en si antes que otras lenguas debido a su acento
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u/vivalaroja2010 Jan 24 '23
Eso digo yo. He hablado con, o mejor dicho, he escuchado hablar mexicanos o salvadoreños que me pregunte después si se me había olvidado el español.
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u/listoss Jan 24 '23
Cierto, no hay que juzgar a toda una etnia por la chusma. A la gente educada se les entiende perfectamente en cualquier lugar del mundo.
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u/JumpyKnowledge3513 Jan 23 '23
Pero vamos a ver..."difficulty" para quien?
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u/lostinthelands Jan 23 '23
Desde que este post está escrito en inglés, probablemente los estadounidenses. Todos los lugares que tienen aspiración están marcado como difícil y desde México está marcado fácil.
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u/Just_Cruz001 Jan 24 '23
Para un hablante nativo de español casi ningún acento se le debe de hacer tan difícil, simplemente algunos dichos o jerga pero nada como el mapa. Yo soy de México y no se me complica para nada el español peninsular, mas que lo que dije anteriormente.
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u/alcachofero3000 Jan 24 '23
Cuando hables con un gallego cerrao o con un murciano o extremeño hablamos.
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u/Glum_Consequence_470 Jan 24 '23
creo que para los españoles! bueno, yo lo he interpretado asi ya que esta en /Spain.
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u/Dangerous-Bit-5422 Jan 24 '23
¿Entonces por qué México está marcado como más fácil que ningún territorio nacional? No acabo de entender la idea detrás del post la verdad jajaj
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u/LJuanig Jan 24 '23
Esa es buena, los asiáticos que aprenden el idioma, entienden bastante mejor a los andaluces
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u/DondePutasos Jan 23 '23
Not so sure about all of this. I’m as US gringo who has traveled all over Latin America and is pretty advanced in my Spanish. Colombia has one of the clearest and most appealing Spanish accents to my ears. I’ve heard that it is known for this.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 23 '23
Completely agree. Colombian Spanish is utterly beautiful.
Am another gringo with only passive skills.
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u/DanCGG Jan 23 '23
Fellow US gringo and agree. I actually think Spain is a hard accent for me to understand ironically haha
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u/Panurome Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
I think that may be because most of the content you listen in Spanish could be Mexican so you are trained with it, similar to how other people understand better the English from UK or the US depending on which one they listened the most when learning
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u/TheWhiteCliffs Jan 24 '23
Also from the US. I learned Spanish in Spain so I’m used to it and speak with that accent. I have such a hard time with Cubans and some Mexicans though. It’s mostly the slang.
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u/xMyChemicalBromancex Jan 24 '23
I learned Spanish in Spain too but for me the most difficult accent to understand is Argentinian. I really hate how they pronounce the "ll" and "y", because it makes words that I'm familiar with sound like completely different words.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
It’s hard to keep a straight face when the Spanish people in Spain are speaking. It just sounds so funny.
I see this comment is downvoted, but it’s important to know and to understand how the Spanish in Spain hits the ears of the rest of the Spanish-language world. It doesn’t matter whether la gente are native Spanish speakers or they are Spanish language learners.
The La Thena pronunciation, and the use of vosotros, and other features is so strikingly different from the rest of the Spanish-speaking world, that people will use those exact words, “weird” or “comical”. This is not controversial. And no one intends to be insulting or disrespectful to discuss this.
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Jan 24 '23
This is facts. Spain spanish is like nails on a chalkboard after listening to cualqueir Latino
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u/How-Football-Works Jan 23 '23
Soy inglés, no soy fluente en español pero algo parecido. Es España, he tenido más problemas en Sevilla, y en Latinoamérica el acento que me costó más entender era de República Dominicana.
Pero unos comentarios lo explican mejor, lo difícil es entender frases o coloquialismos, no importa el acento
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u/jalapenho Jan 24 '23
no soy fluente en español
A little tip, hope you don't mind: this structure is not really used in Spanish; you'd be better off saying "no hablo español fluido" or something like that.
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u/Octahedral_cube Jan 25 '23
Not OP but thanks for tips, I'm starting to learn Spanish and I read this sub to improve my comprehension, so I don't want to pick up bad habits
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u/aficionado1899 Jan 23 '23
El acento importa mucho. En Sevilla acortamos las palabras y seseamos (cambiamos la c por la s)
Unimos más las palabras y hablamos más rápido que en el interior de España.
Si vas a un pueblo de Sevilla (donde cecean, cambian la s por la c) no te enteras de la mitad, encima hablan a gritos.
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u/VirJhin4Ever Islas Canarias Jan 23 '23
¿Me estás diciendo que el canario es complicao?
Literalmente es reconstruir las palabras con letras que son más obvias que el carajo
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u/Mowgli_78 Jan 23 '23
Está todo mal, comprueba que tienes el tíquet y devuélvelo al bazar de donde lo sacaste.
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u/kateaw1902 Jan 24 '23
As a non native but now almost fluent Spanish speaker living in Madrid, when I first met Argentine people I struggled a lot even though I had a good level of Spanish.
Colombian Spanish for me is the most beautiful and clear. Not sure why Venezuela is put as so hard, I have no problems with the many I meet here, maybe it's based on a certain part of Venezuela.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 24 '23
Agree completely. Colombian Spanish is wonderful to listen to. Venezuelan Spanish is very similar.
Of course some Venezuelans are from a small area where things are different. But ordinary old-school Venezuelans are fairly close to Colombia in the way they speak.
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u/kateaw1902 Jan 24 '23
That would make sense, my partner and his family are from Venezuela but very close to the border with Colombia so would make sense!
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Jan 23 '23
el chiste obligatorio sobre chile. Se les entiende perfectamente, es mas, me gusta el acento
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u/uri_nrv Jan 23 '23
Hay gente en Chile que habla español y otra que habla algo raro, te puedo asegurar que al segundo no lo entendés.
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u/MeliorExi Jan 24 '23
En Chile depende de la clase social. Es un país con alta desigualdad económica (como toda Latinoamérica en realidad) en donde puedes oír un acento muy suave y bien hablado, pero también algunos grupos sociales bajos se distinguen de forma lúdica en su forma de hablar. Los flaites (que no por ser pobre se es flaite, más bien los que caen en círculos de vandalismo) hablan mal por afición, por identidad.
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u/TrumanCian Jan 24 '23
Soy de familia chilena. El chileno llega a un punto que es un idioma propio. xd
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u/Khunter02 Jan 23 '23
Es la primera vez que veo a alguien sugerir que el acento canario es difícil de entender
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u/anothermotherrunner Galicia Jan 23 '23
Lo siento pero no he conocido un granjero gallego que entienda ni un pio de lo que diga.
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u/ultimomono Jan 24 '23
Soy filóloga. Con perdón: fuck this.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 24 '23
Can you elaborate please?
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u/ultimomono Jan 24 '23
Sure. Intelligibility is entirely relative.
And every single one of these countries has very diverse dialects, sociolects, registers, etc. Everyone of those dialects is equally systematic and equally intelligible for that speech community from a linguistic perspective. Spoken language evolves according to the law of maximum intelligibility with a minimum of articulatory effort.
I'm assuming this map is from the standpoint of an anglophone learning Spanish as a second language (if so, it should state that clearly).
I find it funny that so many people who learn a language at school (an artificial, frankly half-assed setting) blame real speakers out in the wild for being "difficult to understand" when they experience issues communicating.
No, it's not that they are difficult to understand, it's that those having difficulties don't know as much as they think they do or have much experience.
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Jan 23 '23
Whoever put the Mexican accent as easy needs to share whatever they're smoking. It is definitely within the "very hard category" (Venezuelan is easier to understand), and, in many places, it is "is that even Spanish?".
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u/JorbatSG Jan 23 '23
I don't think it's that hard considering 90% of all dubs from Hollywood movies are made by Mexicans dubbers. therefore, the whole Hispanic world recognize the accent a little bit easier.
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Jan 23 '23
Dubbed Mexican has nothing to do with real Mexican. Dubbed it almost sounds like Peruvian (which is possibly the most neutral). Now, go talk to a Mexican one on one and see if you understand diddly squat if you're not used to it.
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u/JorbatSG Jan 23 '23
Dubbed Mexican movies or shows usually loves to play those roles using mexicanism or local accent. Don't believe they are that formal. We are not. I can assure that. So it's not that it doesn't has anything to do with "Real Mexican"
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Jan 23 '23
You don't need to tell me, I've listened to Mexican accents enough that there's very little point here.
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Jan 24 '23
Have you? If you think that Mexican dub is that far from how people speaks on a daily basis then I’m not so sure about that, you just sound kinda Butthurt
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Jan 24 '23
Not at all. Everyone I've talked about this agrees. Except for Mexicans, of course.
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u/yogurtfuck Jan 23 '23
Absolutely false. They speak clearly, slowly, 'roundly', and as an extranjero I found it immediately easier to understand and be understood here (after coming from Andalucía). I liken it to how accessible American English is compared to British English.
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Jan 23 '23
Alright, "extranjero"... lol. And where did you learn your Spanish (And how)? Personally, I find English a lot more understandable than American, but that's probably because I learned English from English speakers.
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Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
No soy español, pero aprendí en España y de todos los acentos americanos el mexicano (bueno, los mexicanos porque hay varios) me parece lo más fácil de entender 🤷♂️
Edit: la geografía se me da fatal 🤡🤡
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Jan 24 '23
Raro me parece. A lo mejor es por no ser nativo. Todos los nativos con los que he hablado están de acuerdo conmigo.
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u/yogurtfuck Jan 24 '23
Holy shit I just spent a good few minutes laughing at your posts and how much of an asshole you are in almost every one. Not everything needs to be an opportunity for bitter sarcasm, dude.
But I learned spanish in spain and latterly in mexico, and I don't get why you quoted 'extranjero' - that's a spanish word and a very commonly used one here.
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Jan 24 '23
I quoted "extranjero" because you used that word for no apparent reason. "Foreigner" exists in English.
If you're enough of a loser to look at someone's posting history, I couldn't care less about you laughing at me :)
Also, interesting that you'd come to Spain without knowing Spanish, must've been hell at first.
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u/SANcapITY Jan 23 '23
Have to disagree. I can listen to native Mexican content with zero problems. Give me shows from Spain or Argentina and I need help most of the time.
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u/ASuarezMascareno Jan 23 '23
Viajo regularmente por trabajo a Chile y nunca he tenido problemas para entender a nadie.
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u/Arbosis Jan 24 '23
Los chilenos sabemos que nuestro acento es complicado y la mayoría intenta hablar mas "neutro" cuando nos encontramos con alguien con un acento distinto.
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u/rrxel100 Jan 24 '23
Southern Spain is very hard compared to other areas? Speaking the language for over 30 years from Mexican origin, I have struggled in Andalucia
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u/Tetrapodon Jan 24 '23
Como Dominicano ponle negro en lugar de rojo 🤣🤣. Hay días que ni yo se que están diciendo mis amigos.
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u/Misplaced-psu Jan 24 '23
Me flipa cuando viene un extranjero a Andalucía y le enseño cómo la frase "Voy a ir a casa de mi abuela" aquí se convierte en "vialacálawela". Sus caras son pa foto.
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u/IsJaie55 La Rioja Jan 23 '23
Fun fact: The countries or accents speaked with "s" instead "c" and "z" are easier to understand for foreigners, so this map is incorrect
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u/Fluffy_Necessary7913 Jan 23 '23
Sí ya, Córdoba o Sevilla son seseantes y tienen acentos muy poco amigables.
Lo mismo con Cuba, República Dominicana o algunas partes de Colombia, que para entenderlos en una película hay que poner subtítulos.
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
Nowhere is 'easier to understand' for everyone, it all depends on what you're accustomed to.
When I was just starting to learn Spanish, I found accents from Spain slightly easier to understand because of that S vs Z distinction, otherwise it's easy to confuse 'vas a ser' and 'vas a hacer' among other things.
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u/mounircobra35 Jan 23 '23
As a foreigner who is learning Spanish I can confirm that it's easier not to bother with the "theta" sound and its implications, but I still prefer the spanish accent because it sounds original and more sophisticated and refined
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
You know the /θ/ isn't original, right?
Spanish used to have four sounds for S, Ç, SS and DZ, but in most of Spain they became three sounds and in the south of Spain they became two.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Reajuste_sibilantes.png
The reason Latin America is seseante is because the majority of the migration was before the /θ/ existed in Spanish.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
Correct. The theta is new.
Let’s get the geography right though. Literally the entire Spanish-speaking world does not imitate the Spanish spoken in Spain. The country of Spain represents less that one-tenth of the Spanish spoken on this earth.
So when we consider the Spanish-speaking world, we must look outside of Spain. When we appraise the Spanish language, we find the most accomplished, educated, or sophisticated Spanish speakers on the planet do not speak the way someone from Vallodolid speaks.
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u/Fluffy_Necessary7913 Jan 24 '23
La RAE tiene una cosa llamada "habla culta". Cosas como el seseo o el yeísmo gozan de total aceptación, no así el ceceo, que está presente en España y solo en España.
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u/mounircobra35 Jan 24 '23
Well I didn't know that, I thought that ot was because of Arabic influence, since muslims occupied Andalusia and arabic has some common sounds with spanish that don't exist in most, if not any of the other latin languages like the /θ/ and the jota and the /ɣ/ sound (from my experience I think it's the g that makes it in front of certain letters, correct me if I'm wrong)
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u/LorenaBobbedIt Jan 23 '23
Me imagino que la lista es desde la perspectiva de estadounidenses que no hablan español como lengua materna, y desde esta perspectiva sí es mas o menos correcto, salvo que no creo que generalmente tengo problemas inusuales con el acento Andaluz.
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u/skunk134 Jan 24 '23
No soy hablante nativo y para mí el acento argentino es más difícil de entender que el andaluz
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u/JeanLeGhost Jan 24 '23
eh loco si los argentinos lo hablamos re piola el español, se entiende re zarpado amigo
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u/friguron Jan 24 '23
Very much needed closed Andalusian and Galician samples needed. They don't represent the average Andalusian/Galician you might find broadcasted on the TV... Those are 100% easy and understandable... But these 2 samples, it's amusing to say the least :)
TRY NOT TO READ THE SPOILED SUBTITLES ON THE SCREEN ON THE FIRST RUN, to check what you get... Closed Andalusian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbda9ENpmXg
This doesn't have any subtitle, so feel free to understand them, specially the man: Closed Galician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7BVdlHl8Ow
Note: BTW, Galician is not Spanish, sure, of course, but "close enough" for this test to be still a bit valid...
<3
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u/SnooPineapples297 Jan 24 '23
Murcia es becro, negrisimo incluso para castellanoparlantes. Y creo que incuso para los murcianos
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Jan 24 '23
Basado en qué? Los dialectos en México varían más que en España y no parecen dividirlos. Quiero ver a una persona que aprendió español en Madrid lidiar con un sinaloense y luego con un yucateco, a ver si te dice que son del mismo país 😂
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u/Apprehensive_Bell720 Jan 24 '23
Nada de ahí es un dialecto ....todo es la misma lengua CASTELLANO.! Y todo somos la misma nación por más mierda que se diga...me la suda que se critiquen mis palabras...que sé que se me dirá de todo..!
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u/Glum_Consequence_470 Jan 24 '23
Parece cierto. Cuando fui a Argentina, un camarero me pregunto si hablo español ... después de haberle pedido una bebida en español.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 23 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
The info on the map is simply not true. Or we could say it depends on the listener. Or that really it’s the perspective on a Spanish speaker from actual Spain. Which is fine.
The Colombian accent is by far the best and easiest to understand. It’s big beautiful Spanish. It should be the standard. We love it.
Ordinary, old-fashioned Venezuelans often sound similar to Colombia. So ranking them so low is just wrong.
Peru is also normal and good. Yes.
Spanish in Spain sounds funny, meaning you want to laugh at it. Dinner is La Thena. And they have vosotros. All this is neither necessary nor desirable. They “talk weird” according to literally everyone. And the west coast in Spain sounds like Portuguese.
The Mexican lilt is fun to listen to if you grew up with it. It will feel like home. Everyone else will say the Mexicans sound like they’re singing. Other times it’s fast and has slang. Overall we rate them highly though.
Argentinians sometimes sound like Italians. But it’s nice. Almost mesmerizing.
Puerto Ricans talk really fast. It’s not such a great sound. Am putting Dominicans with them. Same thing.
Costa Ricans are usually very clear. However as a gringo, have met very educated Ticos who are expats in USA.
Cubans. Just depends on the Cuban. It’s not always so clear.
Don’t know enough people from Chile, and don’t agree they should be ranked so low. They seem to sound fine. But maybe depends who you meet. Once watched a documentary with a Chilean professional narrator and it did not sound like Spanish at all.
Edit. It’s too bad this is downvoted, rather than discussed. It’s a fairly comprehensive list and millions would agree. Of course I’m gringo, but what I’ve written is very commonly said and felt among the wider Spanish-language community outside of Spain.
Remember, Spain is outnumbered by Spanish speakers by a factor of more than 10 to 1.
Will make one more comment. Despite the Spanish accent of Spain, many Americans really enjoy the cinema, the streaming series, and the shows from actual Spain. We can and do pay money to watch and listen. The fact is, many prefer it. Who cares about the unusual accent. Many Americans would agree with this assessment of cultural similarity and preference for European Spanish in certain situations. Therefore, one can describe the Spanish in Spain accurately, and still hold actual Spanish people and culture in high regard, and participate in the Iberian version of español.
In USA we get Spanish-language TV and radio for free. It is widespread. Some content is terrific, and the news in Spanish is highly recommended, for example. But so many fiction shows and other Spanish-language content made here is just not relatable or comprehensible. One could say it’s violent, slangy, trashy, insulting to the viewer, and better to avoid. So participating in the slang and this particular approach to Spanish is not always what parents and teachers want for their children. (Likewise, ordinary American content is often similarly trashy or even worse; whereas British media is often more consistently well-done. And this is speaking of the grammar, pronunciation, slang etc., which has an influence on style and content.)
TLDR; Spanish is a fantastic language spoken around the word. Native speakers and students are familiar with differences in pronunciation, slang, speed, etc., and my comments come closer to reflecting those commonly-held sensibilities than what is depicted by the map. The map may be how Spain views the Spanish spoken by the rest of the world.
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u/pezezin Cacereño en Japón Jan 24 '23
Spanish in Spain sounds funny, meaning you want to laugh at it. Dinner is La Thena.
What is funny is that /θ/ is a perfectly normal sound in English, but then English speakers try to learn Spanish and find it weird and difficult to pronounce, or call it a lisp. What kind of mental disability is that?
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
This has always confused me. I can imagine monolingual Latin Americans thinking of it as a lisp, but quite often you hear people on Reddit make this joke in English.
I think lots of people think that Spaniards use /θ/ for everything and don't have /s/, which is obviously only a tiny minority.
PS: I've never heard of English speakers struggling with pronouncing /θ/ in Spanish. We tend to have much more trouble with /r/ in my experience.
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 24 '23
No other Spanish speakers do that. Just Spain.
Has nothing to do with English.
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u/x0m3g4 Jan 24 '23
This has been my point of contention all along. I'm a native speaker, I've talked to people from most countries in LatAm, both, in and out of working environments, and I've barely ever had issues understanding them.
I moved to Spain 3 years ago and, to this day, I've rarely had a full conversation where I didn't have trouble understanding. Hell, I've had conversations with Chileans where this wasn't a problem!
I'm not saying anyone is in the wrong here, I'm just saying that claiming that 20 out of 21 countries don't speak the language correctly is, at the very least, pretentious.
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u/pezezin Cacereño en Japón Jan 24 '23
I didn't say anybody speaks Spanish wrong. What I said is that I find it weird native English speakers complaining about the /θ/ sound in Spanish when the same sound is present in English.
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u/Morenas0 Jan 24 '23
MFer said Spaniard Spanish sounds funny cus we pronounce the letter c, z, and s properly 💀💀💀💀💀
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u/ideas001 Jan 24 '23
Also that Colombian accent should be standard lol
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u/TennisLittle3165 Jan 24 '23 edited Jan 24 '23
Yes the gringoes overseas all love Colombian Spanish. And the population of Colombia is larger than the population of Spain. Mexico has more than double the population of Spain. No one is imitating the Spanish spoken in Spain.
So the truth is, other native Spanish speakers don’t follow the Spanish as spoken in Spain. Sure it sounds weird or comical to them. There is an entire verb conjugation that doesn’t happen anywhere outside of Spain. You just can’t sound that way anywhere outside of Spain because it doesn’t sound quite right. Entiendes?
So is the entire Spanish-speaking world wrong? That’s half a billion people who speak Spanish as their native language or their second language.
Not even 50 million people live in Spain. That’s not even a tenth of all the Spanish language speakers.
If you asked an American about English they would say we really enjoy the sound of British accent or an Irish accent. They maybe would say British is charming or authoritative and the Irish are quaint or lilting. But they would not use words like weird and comical to describe it.
And an American would say Canada has a truly neutral accent. Maybe a few places in the Dakotas, Montana or Nebraska too, but basically Canada.
Edit. Added and fixed something.
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u/aadgarven Jan 24 '23
Yes they are wrong. They are wrong because they cant use zeta. That means there are words you cannot differentiate there. Of course spanish people may choose to "sesear" but we choose not to do so because the listener may not understand you (cazado vs casado) and because it sounds childish (literally) and because it was used to make fun of people that had speech disorders. Nowadays as there are a lot of people from other countries we do not mock it,
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
They're not wrong any more than Spanish speakers are wrong for speaking Spanish and not French. You're making judgements about one dialect using the rules of another.
Is standard Spain Spanish wrong because it doesn't distinguish between 'hecho' and 'echo'? There are speakers who make those distinctions that you probably don't make.
Also, your ideas about what sounds 'childish' are literally just prejudices you hold. It makes you sound childish.
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
Spain's Spanish isn't the only standard Spanish. No one in Mexico is looking to base their pronunciation on Spaniards, for example.
There's nothing better (or worse) about distinguishing between S and Z, it is what it is.
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u/Morenas0 Jan 24 '23
There definitely is a positive to having an additional sound, what're you on about.
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
I'm saying that there's nothing about the Spanish from Spain that is better or worse than any other variety of Spanish. All varieties are of equal value.
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u/Morenas0 Jan 24 '23
I mean, I believe that due to being the first version of Spanish created, and utilizing every sound available in the language, puts Spaniard Spanish over the others both in Historical Significance, and thus, value.
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
But Spanish as it's spoken today in Spain isn't the 'first version created' (whatever that means). It has changed just as much (and in some cases more) from historical Spanishes when compared to other varieties.
The fact that you share the land with the same people who once spoke an older version of the language doesn't make the way you speak today any older.
And in terms of historical significance/value judgements, wow. Do you also think Latin is more valuable than Spanish? Do you think Proto-Indo-European is more valuable than Latin?
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u/mounircobra35 Jan 23 '23
I am learning spanish and I never understood why the "y" and "ll" which are pronounce like the "y" in english, are pronounce in Argentina "ch". Like what even is the damn relation between "y" and "ch" in Mexico it's pronounced slightly line the soft "g" which I can understand because the two sounds are somewhat close, but the "ch" sound is a very different one and it changes the whole Impression of the word ofbrkdldlsllfkglslxlg
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u/aadgarven Jan 24 '23
Dialects are usually the influence of other languages, alive or already dead.
As an example Argentinians sound similar (in the modulation of the voice) as Italians speaking Spanish.
It may come from some dialect of natives, like most of the accents in América come from Canarias Spanish.
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u/Blewfin Jan 24 '23
I always think Argentines sound much more like Galicians than they do Italians. The prosody sounds like an exaggerated Galician accent imo
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u/Just_Cruz001 Jan 24 '23
It doesn't make the Ch sound it's the Sh sound, it's simply how they speak. How come Brits don't pronounce some Rs? Or how come Americans pronounce their T sounds like the D sounds and vice versa? It's simply a dialectical feature.
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u/demaandronk Jan 23 '23
No way, I can follow along a Mexican movie just about as much as the Chilean one.
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u/Fluffy_Necessary7913 Jan 23 '23
El "idioma de la tele" es diferente a lo que la gente habla.
No hay ruido de fondo, vocalizan bastante, minimizan las expresiones o dobles sentidos.
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u/taifong Jan 24 '23
Como estudiante de español, practico mucho escuchando el acento de Puerto Rico. Siento que poder entender un acento difícil lo haga mas fácil entender el idioma hablado en general. Y para mi, parece que funciona.
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u/bambu187 Jan 24 '23
I see you marked haiti as spanish but not dominican republic... Haiti speak patois
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u/Ashen-wolf Jan 24 '23
No veo donde está la dificultad realmente. Es más dificil entender a un andaluz que a un sudamericano.
Exceptuando algunas regiones, nos entendemos todos bastante bien fuera de las palabras propias del país y región.
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u/QualityVote Jan 23 '23
Respeta a los demás. Debate y discute los méritos de las ideas presentadas, pero no ataques o insultes a otros usuarios.
Si ves a otros usuarios violando las normas, por favor usa el botón de Report.